Are People actually Dumb enough to believe the NBA is Rigged?

[KVB]

I'm of the position that it's largely unrigged. That being said, I've tried to refute the riggers and their assumptions. From what I've gathered in this thread, most riggers like the idea of a storyline. So I cited the Clippers, and a few other scenarios, as a counterexample to that particular argument. Not only because of the Sterling angle, but because LA is fresh blood with exciting stars like Paul, Griffin, Crawford, etc. The riggers can't seem to figure that one out.

I'm of the belief that the Clippers didn't advance because they lost to the Thunder, plain and simple.

Everyone acts like this the NBA last garage sale…everything must go…
The NBA has been around for many years, and will likely be around for many more (as the courts would likely never rule for any class action suit even if we get additional players, refs, and coaches admitting guilt). The average fan already has a court precedent, he or she can choose not to watch or go to the games.
As for the bettor, good luck there. For all of Penn States’ nullified games, maybe all those who won with Paterno can meet in Vegas with all those bettors who lost on his games and give them their money back…after all the games never happened.
Point… Should a broad fix be exposed, there is no recourse for the gambler and none for the fan. There shouldn’t be, because it would not be illegal. Talk about a Pandora’s box.
Back to the garage sale, NBA games are not a sprint, they are not ending, and it is a more like a marathon.
That’s one problem with every poster’s assumptions

[sballen]

Sorry gasto, this doesn't change my opinion of you. Maybe you are a bright individual when in comes to econometrics, but your sports IQ is very low.

My advice? Stick to econometrics.

[KVB]

Anyone remember Sarunas? That guy was funny as shit.

[Eddy Munny]

Bro you're talking too much sense. These riggers cant comprehend a well thought out statement like that.

Tell me about it.

I think I've figured it out... KVB is just a troll. He really hasn't made a case for anything in this thread other than to insinuate that he knows the truth, and he's willing to share it if we all elevate our thinking. He wants to be Yoda I guess...

KVB walked into this thread ready to hang his hat on the "there's no law against it" position, but as soon as I posted a rebuttal to that, he quickly aborted. Now he'd rather speak in riddles and ambiguities, just to make believe he has something credible to contribute.

[sballen]

Everyone acts like this the NBA last garage sale…everything must go…
The NBA has been around for many years, and will likely be around for many more (as the courts would likely never rule for any class action suit even if we get additional players, refs, and coaches admitting guilt). The average fan already has a court precedent, he or she can choose not to watch or go to the games.
As for the bettor, good luck there. For all of Penn States’ nullified games, maybe all those who won with Paterno can meet in Vegas with all those bettors who lost on his games and give them their money back…after all the games never happened.
Point… Should a broad fix be exposed, there is no recourse for the gambler and none for the fan. There shouldn’t be, because it would not be illegal. Talk about a Pandora’s box.
Back to the garage sale, NBA games are not a sprint, they are not ending, and it is a more like a marathon.
That’s one problem with every poster’s assumptions

Dude you continue to say absolutely nothing yet act like you're some high level thinker. Up your thinking...

[sballen]

Tell me about it.

I think I've figured it out... KVB is just a troll. He really hasn't made a case for anything in this thread other than to insinuate that he knows the truth, and he's willing to share it if we all elevate our thinking. He wants to be Yoda I guess...

KVB walked into this thread ready to hang his hat on the "there's no law against it" position, but as soon as I posted a rebuttal to that, he quickly aborted. Now he'd rather speak in riddles and ambiguities, just to make believe he has something credible to contribute.

Haha yea he says nothing of value and keeps throwing out tired phrases to act like he knows some truth that makes him "see the forest from the trees" Meanwhile he says absolutely nothing.

[KVB]

Tell me about it.

I think I've figured it out... KVB is just a troll. He really hasn't made a case for anything in this thread other than to insinuate that he knows the truth, and he's willing to share it if we all elevate our thinking. He wants to be Yoda I guess...

KVB walked into this thread ready to hang his hat on the "there's no law against it" position, but as soon as I posted a rebuttal to that, he quickly aborted. Now he'd rather speak in riddles and ambiguities, just to make believe he has something credible to contribute.

No I walked into this thread to educate the original poster on the law, he had it wrong and was insulting others. I also asked him a question, got a winner of an answer there.
I came to fight the ignorance posted, not make stand or take side.
I see arrogance leading to ignorance on both sides.
It seems many of you are definitely weeding yourself out of the “up your thinking” class.

[The Kraken]

Reminds me of the quote "better to be assumed an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Thx for removing all doubt

[Eddy Munny]

Well said Kraken.

[Eddy Munny]

Anyone remember Sarunas? That guy was funny as shit.

...Tells me all I need to know about KVB.

[KVB]

...Tells me all I need to know about KVB.

Indeed.

[KVB]

Pointing out that assumptions are not fact is valuable. If you can’t see that, particularly in this thread, I can’t help you.
I and would never give too much in a public forum, you must know that.I don’t know it all, I can see things to learn, and I can also see posters here have much to learn. Much of that learning will not occur in this arena.
But if folks are argumentative and emotional, nobody will learn anything.

[Eddy Munny]

Pointing out that assumptions are not fact is valuable. If you can’t see that, particularly in this thread, I can’t help you.
I and would never give too much in a public forum, you must know that.I don’t know it all, I can see things to learn, and I can also see posters here have much to learn. Much of that learning will not occur in this arena.
But if folks are argumentative and emotional, nobody will learn anything.

I don't hold assumptions, unless it's to refute other, denser assumptions. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. It's the riggers who bear the burden of proof and yet, they try to mount their case almost entirely off of assumptions.

Maybe you can round up all the flaked out riggers in this thread and give them your little spiel because frankly, it does nothing for me.

[KVB]

Truthfully, I think both sides are shortsighted, the “flaked out riggers” especially...And I mean especially.



The problem with the “non-rigged” is an utter lack of evidence. It becomes psychological…Folks don’t’ even know it. Without evidence, and only logic and reason, they develop a world where it just couldn’t be possible. There’s no way…communication, people being quiet…etc… it just can’t happen. It becomes “incomprehensible.”



While I am not indicating a side, I will point out that they used to think the world was flat and a ship would fall of the edge.



For the “non-riggers” to consider the “rig” even possible, would break down their very fabric of upbringing and culture.



Hence we see resistance to the concept that it may actually not be against the law. And when a player and coach said it was fixed in a video above, a “non-rigger” posted that it wouldn’t count because they are emotional just after a game. If the role was reversed, I’m pretty sure the “non-rigger” side would mention something about how conspiracy theorists always have answers.



The “riggers” run into a lot of trees…clearly.



Both are tough spot but because of our brain makeup, it’s tough to admit.



Remember, this is sports…you want to win? First eliminate activities that make you lose.



If you don’t them, identify them, and stop doing them. Did I lose you? It’s psychology.



If you want to win at sports, you better major in Psychology or even Psychobiology …oh and get that minor in Math.

[KVB]

**If you don't KNOW them, identify them, and stop doing them.

sorry left out a word.

[jtoler]

I don't hold assumptions, unless it's to refute other, denser assumptions. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. It's the riggers who bear the burden of proof and yet, they try to mount their case almost entirely off of assumptions.

Maybe you can round up all the flaked out riggers in this thread and give them your little spiel because frankly, it does nothing for me.

Isnt the eye test enough? A ref can give one team 30 fouls and the other zero, thats still not PROOF its rigged but it passes the eye test as being so. Nobody is ever gonna have proof unless ANOTHER ref is outed or there is an admission or video recordings or something catching someone, so actual proof is very overrated. There's things in your daily life every single day you cant prove yet you take them as fact.

[KVB]

Isnt the eye test enough? A ref can give one team 30 fouls and the other zero, thats still not PROOF its rigged but it passes the eye test as being so. Nobody is every gonna have proof unless ANOTHER ref is outed or there is an admission or video recordings or something catching someone, so actual proof is very overrated. There's things in your daily life every single day you cant prove yet you take them as fact.

“If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…”
This could be valid point, not overall thread ending proof (will it ever end?), but an interesting, valid point.

[face]

in hindsight we all should have bet indiana game 5
i got burned though hoping for a rig in game 6 of clippers thunder, i thought for sure refs would rig it to go to game 7 and they didn't
imo they rig games sometimes, but i've made no progress determining when, and that's what mattters

[KVB]

in hindsight we all should have bet indiana game 5
i got burned though hoping for a rig in game 6 of clippers thunder, i thought for sure refs would rig it to go to game 7 and they didn't
imo they rig games sometimes, but i've made no progress determining when, and that's what mattters

Are you a winning gambler? Have you progressed that far? Can you manage your bankroll? What's your experience? Talk to me.

[Eddy Munny]

Isnt the eye test enough? A ref can give one team 30 fouls and the other zero, thats still not PROOF its rigged but it passes the eye test as being so. Nobody is ever gonna have proof unless ANOTHER ref is outed or there is an admission or video recordings or something catching someone, so actual proof is very overrated. There's things in your daily life every single day you cant prove yet you take them as fact.

Hypothetically speaking, yeah a 30-0 foul disparity would be a red flag. How often does that actually occur though?

The problem is that the riggers just have too many cards in the deck and they're ready to play any hand at the drop of a hat. It actually hurts their case when they do it too, because any genuine gripe they may have gets lost in the shuffle.

You have to watch the games closely to really get a sense if the refs have a bias or the betting public is just paranoid. Sometimes a foul disparity is justified. A team with tired legs is usually going to get more fouls called against them. A team that's more aggressive and drives to the basket is usually going to draw more contact. Sometimes "home cooking" plays a factor, but not necessarily because of a fix. It's only human nature to be influenced, even if unconsciously, by 20,000 screaming fans.

I don't think the league has incentive to steer the outcomes of games nearly as much as the riggers profess. Maybe in certain situations, a perfect storm if you will, some biasness on the part of the officials may tilt the balance, but even then it's not a full scale fix. The teams still have a say in the outcome, despite dirty officiating. I think the best teams make for the most compelling basketball, therefore it's wiser to let the games play out, unadulterated, and let the chips fall where they may.

[KVB]

Hypothetically speaking, yeah a 30-0 foul disparity would be a red flag. How often does that actually occur though?

The problem is that the riggers just have too many cards in the deck and they're ready to play any hand at the drop of a hat. It actually hurts their case when they do it too, because any genuine gripe they may have gets lost in the shuffle.

You have to watch the games closely to really get a sense if the refs have a bias or the betting public is just paranoid. Sometimes a foul disparity is justified. A team with tired legs is usually going to get more fouls called against them. A team that's more aggressive and drives to the basket is usually going to draw more contact. Sometimes "home cooking" plays a factor, but not necessarily because of a fix. It's only human nature to be influenced, even if unconsciously, by 20,000 screaming fans.

I don't think the league has incentive to steer the outcomes of games nearly as much as the riggers profess. Maybe in certain situations, a perfect storm if you will, some biasness on the part of the officials may tilt the balance, but even then it's not a full scale fix. The teams still have a say in the outcome, despite dirty officiating. I think the best teams make for the most compelling basketball, therefore it's wiser to let the games play out, unadulterated, and let the chips fall where they may.

I like this….

The only thing I would address is your conclusion that one situation is wiser than another. I’m not saying you can’t reach that conclusion, but remember none of us have all the facts and motivations; therefore it’s tough to assess the wisdom in actions.

[jtoler]

Hypothetically speaking, yeah a 30-0 foul disparity would be a red flag. How often does that actually occur though?

The problem is that the riggers just have too many cards in the deck and they're ready to play any hand at the drop of a hat. It actually hurts their case when they do it too, because any genuine gripe they may have gets lost in the shuffle.

You have to watch the games closely to really get a sense if the refs have a bias or the betting public is just paranoid. Sometimes a foul disparity is justified. A team with tired legs is usually going to get more fouls called against them. A team that's more aggressive and drives to the basket is usually going to draw more contact. Sometimes "home cooking" plays a factor, but not necessarily because of a fix. It's only human nature to be influenced, even if unconsciously, by 20,000 screaming fans.

I don't think the league has incentive to steer the outcomes of games nearly as much as the riggers profess. Maybe in certain situations, a perfect storm if you will, some biasness on the part of the officials may tilt the balance, but even then it's not a full scale fix. The teams still have a say in the outcome, despite dirty officiating. I think the best teams make for the most compelling basketball, therefore it's wiser to let the games play out, unadulterated, and let the chips fall where they may.

I gave the 30-0 foul scenario to indicate that thats still not proof its rigged, proof seems to be the overwhelming thing of substance those against rigging want and theyre not gonna get it. But Ive made quite a bit of money with live bets by noticing partiality in foul calls in the NBA, but mostly in college basketball. I just see it all the time, guys being very physical on plays offensively and defensively during a game and there not being a foul call yet on the other end there is way less physicality and somehow fouls are being called. See it so much in college and I honestly dont mind it since I cant change it, but I will make money off of it. I disagree with the last part with a team still has a say in the outcome, that so called say is minuscule trying to play 5 against 8.

[KVB]

I gave the 30-0 foul scenario to indicate that thats still not proof its rigged, proof seems to be the overwhelming thing of substance those against rigging want and theyre not gonna get it. But Ive made quite a bit of money with live bets by noticing partially in foul calls in the NBA, but mostly in college basketball. I just see it all the time, guys being very physical on plays offensively and defensively during a game and there not being a foul call yet on the other end there is way less physicality and somehow fouls are being called. See it so much in college and I honestly dont mind it since I cant change it, but I will make money off of it.

Keep winning...be patient, and stay disciplined.
Good work

[James Marques]

Citing a corrupt ref and some sketchy games is hardly evidence of a complicated and convoluted plot. I can prove right now that 95% of NBA game- total differentials this season have fallen within two standard deviations of the closing line. That should at least put the blow out "rig" nonsense to rest.

[James Marques]

As far as spreads, that might take some work. But I'm sure I could prove it, statistically at least.

[jtoler]

Citing a corrupt ref and some sketchy games is hardly evidence of a complicated and convoluted plot. I can prove right now that 95% of NBA game- total differentials this season have fallen within two standard deviations of the closing line. That should at least put the blow out "rig" nonsense to rest.

Who said anything about complicated and convoluted? Im not of the mindset that players are involved.

[Eddy Munny]

I like this….

The only thing I would address is your conclusion that one situation is wiser than another. I’m not saying you can’t reach that conclusion, but remember none of us have all the facts and motivations; therefore it’s tough to assess the wisdom in actions.

I was stating the last line as a matter of opinion. If I were the commissioner, I'd be content to let the chips fall where they may because I believe the natural course of events, unsullied by corruption, would give rise to a perfectly good storyline. The riggers seem to believe that compelling storylines are always a result of some shady manipulation.

That being said, I realize I am not the commissioner, and that there are unseen factors in play that could bear influence over pro sports. But I don't let that prospect turn me into a paranoid whistleblower, who thinks all of my losing bets are someone else's fault or that the NBA parallels pro wrestling.

I believe that "cleanly" officiated games represent the vast majority. Mistakes are going to happen, doesn't signify a fix. I also believe that players are not actors whose stage is the NBA hardwood. I'm pretty firm on this. Riggers who claim Lebron intentionally sought foul trouble, or that Tony Parker wanted to get swatted by Ibaka to enrich the plot, are the first ones to get dismissed in my opinion. If they can't see the instability of that argument, then I don't have the desire to meticulously re-program their faulty brains one neuron at a time... Can't do it.

[James Marques]

How has no one brought up this point? If the NBA is really rigged, how did we never end up with a Kobe vs. LeBron Finals? I mean damn, think about THOSE ratings! We got close one year, but never got it.

[James Marques]

Who said anything about complicated and convoluted? Im not of the mindset that players are involved.

I wasn't addressing you specifically. I was more or less pointing out that with limited information people choose to believe in the complex over the simple. That's illogical.

[daonlyplaya]

I'm smart enough to realize MOST NBA games aren't officiated fairly. Whether it's superstar calls, makeup calls or an obvious attempt to extend playoff series. This doesn't mean that the result of the game is pre-determined. It takes blatant reffing to control who wins the game every time (ex lakers-kings series). But refs control much more than just free throws. They control momentum, they control defense physicality. If say a solid defender is defending lebron and the refs call touch fouls on him, the defender is obviously gonna back down and give lebron more freedom to do w.e he wants because he wouldn't wanna get fouled out. It's beyond stupid to think that the league is 100% honest and that the refs are 100% honest. Some games they are but most games, and important games they know what they need to do. & this isn't something new. People always talk about michael jordan having to play against tougher defense in the 90s, but that didn't apply to him. You couldn't touch michael without getting a foul called on you. I don't even understand this thread especially since this year's playoffs reffing has been pretty horrible imo.

[Eddy Munny]

How has no one brought up this point? If the NBA is really rigged, how did we never end up with a Kobe vs. LeBron Finals? I mean damn, think about THOSE ratings! We got close one year, but never got it.

Right, and the riggers love to make the Saints-Hurricane Katrina connection, but where were the Jets or the Giants post 9/11?

Answer: Not in the Super Bowl! (Patriots are not a suitable replacement... that's laughable)

[jtoler]

I'm smart enough to realize MOST NBA games aren't officiated fairly. Whether it's superstar calls, makeup calls or an obvious attempt to extend playoff series. This doesn't mean that the result of the game is pre-determined. It takes blatant reffing to control who wins the game every time (ex lakers-kings series). But refs control much more than just free throws. They control momentum, they control defense physicality. If say a solid defender is defending lebron and the refs call touch fouls on him, the defender is obviously gonna back down and give lebron more freedom to do w.e he wants because he wouldn't wanna get fouled out. It's beyond stupid to think that the league is 100% honest and that the refs are 100% honest. Some games they are but most games, and important games they know what they need to do. & this isn't something new. People always talk about michael jordan having to play against tougher defense in the 90s, but that didn't apply to him. You couldn't touch michael without getting a foul called on you. I don't even understand this thread especially since this year's playoffs reffing has been pretty horrible imo.

I agree with all basically. And it doesnt take a whole lot of biasness from the refs to take one team that possibly could have won to losing by double digits.

[KVB]

How has no one brought up this point? If the NBA is really rigged, how did we never end up with a Kobe vs. LeBron Finals? I mean damn, think about THOSE ratings! We got close one year, but never got it.

Still talking about ratings, lest we forget we are dealing with, yes, a televised presentation, but also a very large, international money moving marketplace.
Does the NBA really have trouble with their NBA Finals ratings?
The good thing is that when we win, we don’t beat the bookies.We win because we outsmart the marketplace. The winners outsmart almost all of you. My profit comes out of your pockets. It’s easy when everybody stuck on a childhood game and its details, missing the bigger picture.
Gawd, I’ve said too much.

[KVB]

I was stating the last line as a matter of opinion. If I were the commissioner, I'd be content to let the chips fall where they may because I believe the natural course of events, unsullied by corruption, would give rise to a perfectly good storyline. The riggers seem to believe that compelling storylines are always a result of some shady manipulation.

That being said, I realize I am not the commissioner, and that there are unseen factors in play that could bear influence over pro sports. But I don't let that prospect turn me into a paranoid whistleblower, who thinks all of my losing bets are someone else's fault or that the NBA parallels pro wrestling.

I believe that "cleanly" officiated games represent the vast majority. Mistakes are going to happen, doesn't signify a fix. I also believe that players are not actors whose stage is the NBA hardwood. I'm pretty firm on this. Riggers who claim Lebron intentionally sought foul trouble, or that Tony Parker wanted to get swatted by Ibaka to enrich the plot, are the first ones to get dismissed in my opinion. If they can't see the instability of that argument, then I don't have the desire to meticulously re-program their faulty brains one neuron at a time... Can't do it.

Yes, you are well grounded, now take a step up a branch, forget about the details, and look at the bigger picture.
This post was meant to inspire.

[Eddy Munny]

KVB... If you're referring to Vegas, and slanted games putting more money into the pockets of sportsbooks (legal and illegal) who broker the lines, then that's not news. We've already addressed that to some degree, but got sidetracked with the "storylines as incentive" angle when it became clear that that's the argument the riggers favored most.