The Bible is Bullshit - a public service message.

[betplom]

If you were alive 100 years ago, you'd probably be saying that about smallpox.

Imagine that, the bible correctly predicted there will be diseases that will cause man to suffer/die. God is great.

[ringemup]

[quote=curious;1454667]

And you know this because some man told you that some other man wrote it in a book?

The thing that I find most reprehensible about this story is that, according to the Bible, the reason that Jesus had to come to Earth to "save" humans in the first place is because "God" condemned the entire human race to death because he forced the first human pair to "prove" their love for their Father - "God".

I am a father, and the idea that I would "test" my children's love for me and make them "prove" that they love me with the punishment for failing the test being death is so abhorrent that in my view only an uncaring, unfeeling monster would do such a thing.

So, I'm sorry but the stories about Jesus don't do anything for me in terms of making me believe that "God" "loves" humans.

I dont think its important to believe every little detail the Bible states and honestly I dont truly believe everything it states because it may have been altered in some parts by scholars. but the lessons it teaches are undeniable and there is truth behind it. can u explain our innate ability to sense what is right and wrong, who gave us that ability? u can talk about the negativity thats portrayed of God because of his wrath coming down on us. the fact that people are insecure about God and the monster you think of him shows that they fear his punishment and know what is right from wrong in ur heart that would mean reward or punishment. if life were that easy to live n be rewarded, itd defeat the purpose of existence. God sent his one Son to free us from our wrongs by believing in Jesus and were blessed to be able to be saved. u dont think that would take his love for us to sacrifice his only son? that Bible started out as one piece of notebook and has been the only book on record to be passed down for generations, and no book has ever survived like it. it was God's plan for it to be passed down for as long as its been around.

[curious]

[QUOTE=ringemup;1454913]

I dont think its important to believe every little detail the Bible states and honestly I dont truly believe everything it states because it may have been altered in some parts by scholars. but the lessons it teaches are undeniable and there is truth behind it. can u explain our innate ability to sense what is right and wrong, who gave us that ability? u can talk about the negativity thats portrayed of God because of his wrath coming down on us. the fact that people are insecure about God and the monster you think of him shows that they fear his punishment and know what is right from wrong in ur heart that would mean reward or punishment. if life were that easy to live n be rewarded, itd defeat the purpose of existence. God sent his one Son to free us from our wrongs by believing in Jesus and were blessed to be able to be saved. u dont think that would take his love for us to sacrifice his only son? that Bible started out as one piece of notebook and has been the only book on record to be passed down for generations, and no book has ever survived like it. it was God's plan for it to be passed down for as long as its been around.

Yes, I fear a homicidal maniac who supposedly possesses ultimate power who has threatened to murder me if I do not "prove" myself according to a book that you now say is not factual.

Please don't try to feed me that horse shit that because the monster murdered his son to make up for condemning billions of people to death in the first place "proves" his love for me. First off, I don't ask people that I care about to "prove" that they care about me, I can tell that they care about me by the way the act. Second, murdering his son for something that his son supposedly had nothing to do with does not prove anything other than to reinforce the fact that "God" is a monster, or insane, you pick.

How do you know that it is God's plan for the bible to be passed down? How do you know that this is the only book that God had a plan for? Perhaps there are other books that God had passed down. There is no way you can know this. The Egyptians passed books down for millenia, there are still Egyptian religious texts that are in circulation and are being passed down, 5000 years after they were written. These Egyptian texts precede the bible by several thousands of years. Who made that possible?

[ringemup]

[quote=curious;1455001]

Yes, I fear a homicidal maniac who supposedly possesses ultimate power who has threatened to murder me if I do not "prove" myself according to a book that you now say is not factual.

Please don't try to feed me that horse shit that because the monster murdered his son to make up for condemning billions of people to death in the first place "proves" his love for me. First off, I don't ask people that I care about to "prove" that they care about me, I can tell that they care about me by the way the act. Second, murdering his son for something that his son supposedly had nothing to do with does not prove anything other than to reinforce the fact that "God" is a monster, or insane, you pick.

How do you know that it is God's plan for the bible to be passed down? How do you know that this is the only book that God had a plan for? Perhaps there are other books that God had passed down. There is no way you can know this. The Egyptians passed books down for millenia, there are still Egyptian religious texts that are in circulation and are being passed down, 5000 years after they were written. These Egyptian texts precede the bible by several thousands of years. Who made that possible?

Yes, but the Bible is widespread and is common knowledge to most of the world because God wanted everyone to have and live by its words. he gave us this manual because knew we needed strength to overcome our evil nature. from knowing the medieval history back before Jesus, people were wicked- constant warfare, greed of the empires, and corruption. i think todays world is actually a lot safer than it was then despite terrorism and couple wars. God was sickened to the point where the pain was too great and he wanted to save the people from destruction, and a savior was born. it seems cruel how Jesus was crucified but it was the only way to show God's love for humans. God didnt intend for many of the things that have happened in this world that are negative like people getting killed, people did this to each other. it is free will to accept gods blessings or not, but just because so many things that have gone bad in this world is reason to blame God, its not his fault. if god was a moster as u think, y did he create such a unique place for us to live and give us freedom? and were supposed to blame God evry time something has gone wrong? we r blessed jus 2 be breathing rite now.

[curious]

Yes, but the Bible is widespread and is common knowledge to most of the world

Non-factual statement. The majority of the world have never seen a Bible.

because God wanted everyone to have and live by its words.

And you know this how?

he gave us this manual

A manual which does not tell us things like:
1. Why we are here.
2. Why we were created.
3. Why the universe was created.
4. How to govern ourselves in a way that will ensure the well being of all humans.

Well, the list of important topics needed to be a manual for human life that are NOT addressed by the Bible is quite lengthy.

As far as I can tell the "manual" consists of a few platitudes like "love your neighbor as yourself", "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". But the Bible is NOT a manual that would instruct humans on how to build societies that would be beneficial.

because knew we needed strength to overcome our evil nature.

I vehemently disagree that humans are born "evil". Most people are goodnatured, goodhearted people. Children definitely are. Environment and suffering can cause people to develop evil behaviors but I reject the notion that humans are inherently evil.

from knowing the medieval history back before Jesus

you lost me here, medieval history began 1250 years after the supposed birth of Jesus. If you mean ancient history, you are wrong again. The first human societies were matriarchal, ruled by the Goddess priestesses, peaceful, healthy, happy. It was only after the Yahwehists murdered the Goddess worshipers and substituted patriarchal rule for matriarchal rule that the problems you describe began.

people were wicked- constant warfare, greed of the empires, and corruption. i think todays world is actually a lot safer than it was then despite terrorism and couple wars.

Are you insane? We live in the most corrupt age in human history. We have had 3 wars in this century that make most other human wars look like the gunfight at the OK corral.

God was sickened to the point where the pain was too great

This is the same God who supposedly created this mess by allowing Satan access to God's children in the garden of Eden so that God could "test" his children's love for him under the threat of death if they failed the test. Excuse me, but I don't think God gets to complain about feeling pain here.

and he wanted to save the people from destruction,

You mean by threatening the people with eternal hell fire if they didn't magically fix all the problems that God permitted to occur.

and a savior was born.

And you know this how? A savior from what? Oh, I remember, from being murdered by God.

it seems cruel how Jesus was crucified

Yes, assuming that God actually sent his son to earth to be murdered to make up for the earlier crime that God committed by turning Adam and Eve over to Satan for Satan to do what he would to them, this was cruel.

but it was the only way to show God's love for humans.

So, let me make sure that I understand this correctly. God condemns all humans to die for something that they did not do, something that God not only allowed to happen, but conspired in, that is the corruption of Adam and Eve, and then God shows his love to humans by murdering his son, who had nothing to do with any of this, and now we are told to believe in the son that was murdered or we will be burned forever? That is a strange kind of love. VERY strange.

God didnt intend for many of the things that have happened in this world that are negative like people getting killed, people did this to each other.

So, omnipresent, omniscient, all powerful God who is everywhere at all times, sees all, knows all, didn't think through the effects of conspiring to give Satan access to God's children Adam and Eve so that Satan could corrupt them, causing them and all their children to be condemned to death, He didn't think through the effects of that? So much for being all knowing.

it is free will to accept gods blessings or not,

Well, there is that pesky little "you will burn in hell forever if you don't" bit.

but just because so many things that have gone bad in this world is reason to blame God, its not his fault.

Really? So, the all knowing, all wise, all powerful, everywhere present "God" creates children, then just turns them lose under the control of Satan, and washes his hands of the whole affair and says "not my fault my children turned out so bad" and it isn't HIS FAULT? Are you insane?

if god was a moster as u think, y did he create such a unique place for us to live

I don't think the "god" of the Bible had anything to do with the creation of the earth or the universe. I think the "god" of the bible is either a fictional character or is some demented supernatural being that is extremely malevolent.

and give us freedom?

Freedom to do what? Oh, I remember, freedom to serve God or burn forever in hellfire.

and were supposed to blame God evry time something has gone wrong? we r blessed jus 2 be breathing rite now.

Yes, breathing until you die, a death which you will only suffer because the first humans Adam and Eve were punished by passing on suffering and death to all their offspring because they ate fruit from a tree. Yes, we are very blessed.

You can see why I might have a problem with your reasoning.

[reno cool]

Wow!!! I think Curious single handed disproved the existence of god. I don't think there's any way to counter this argument.
How did they decide that sacrificing your son is not a crime. Anyway, isn't it time for god to have another son, or at least a daughter. It's been like 2000 years for gods sakes.

[betplom]

You can see why I might have a problem with your reasoning.

for Curious!

Wow!!! I think Curious single handed disproved the existence of god. I don't think there's any way to counter this argument.

and again! Curious

[Cloak & Dagger]

Wow!!! I think Curious single handed disproved the existence of god. I don't think there's any way to counter this argument.
How did they decide that sacrificing your son is not a crime. Anyway, isn't it time for god to have another son, or at least a daughter. It's been like 2000 years for gods sakes.

you think??

why dosent he find out for sure

and plommer can find out with him

its really easy and they both can find out if there is a God or not really fast !

they just have to shoot themselves (or stand in front of) one of these...in the area of the head will do

[betplom]

you think??

why dosent he find out for sure

It would be more appropriate for a Christian to attempt this, that way, he could report back to us from the afterlife.

We non-believers aren't capable of miracles the way Christians are.

[Cloak & Dagger]

It would be more appropriate for a Christian to attempt this, that way, he could report back to us from the afterlife.

We non-believers aren't capable of miracles the way Christians are.

but your guess is as good as theirs?////or they must be ridiculed for their beliefs??

and your beliefs have more meaning than the next mans??

why play the guessing game??

there is a for SURE way to find out tonight!!

[ringemup]

Wow!!! I think Curious single handed disproved the existence of god. I don't think there's any way to counter this argument.
How did they decide that sacrificing your son is not a crime. Anyway, isn't it time for god to have another son, or at least a daughter. It's been like 2000 years for gods sakes.

u brought up a good point, it does state in the Bible that there will be a second coming of Jesus soon so maybe god really will show his face in the near future, if its his desire to do so.

[raydog]

ahaha, this thread has a little bit of everything. if you believe, you believe. if you dont, you dont. i dont know why a christian wants to try to prove something to an atheist when they have absolutely no proof. for all the believers out there, let me give you some advice...before arguing with an atheist, have some solid proof. the bible, by the way, is not proof of anything. it will be argued, with absolutely no possible proof, until death.

ringemup, you are an odd cat. i cant believe that you would actually come out in public and say that you believe stories in a book about people going to heaven and hell and being sent back. if you really believe this garbage and thats exactly what it is, garbage(to sell books), then why dont you send me your life savings and in a few hours, i can turn that into millions. really, believe me, i can do it. i just thought i would ask since you OBVIOUSLY believe anything...

this issue will never be resolved. every time something bad happens, Christians will revert back to the bible and tell everyone "says right here and told you so" or "this is his way of teaching us". atheist will always question "why bad things happen to good people. if there really is a higher power, then why does he let this happen?" this issue will never be resolved.

one thing i know for sure is that churches are money making machines. theres at least 5 new churches, all believing something different, within a 5 mile radius of my house.

[curious]

Wow!!! I think Curious single handed disproved the existence of god. I don't think there's any way to counter this argument.
How did they decide that sacrificing your son is not a crime. Anyway, isn't it time for god to have another son, or at least a daughter. It's been like 2000 years for gods sakes.

It was not my intention to disprove the existence of a First Cause. My point is that "God" as described in the Bible is a preposterous character that cannot possibly exist. For, on the one hand, the bible claims that "God IS love" (1 John 4:8), but, on the other hand, the bible describes numerous horrific actions taken by this same God that prove that "God" knows nothing about love, and is in fact anti-love. The self appointed bible interpreters (the clergy) claim that "God" is all knowing, all wise, omnipresent, all powerful, etc, etc. But then you are faced with a human society that is full of suffering, and if God had all these omni- characteristics then God could have certainly created humans and shaped human society in a way that avoided all this suffering. The fact that "God" did not do so proves that the "God" as described in the bible does not exist. For, either "God" is not all wise and all knowing and knows the future and the past, which is why "God" could not predict what would happen to His children. Or, "God" IS all knowing and purposely created a human society that is full of suffering. Either way this disproves the clergies contention that God is both 1. "Love", and 2. "All knowing and all powerful". For, if God was "Love" then God would have used His ability to foretell the future to take a different course of action in dealing with his children in order to avoid the countless suffering that humans have undergone since we were created. The clergy at this point will say some nonsense like "but God has a plan and that plan ....". Sorry, no plan that God has can justify the millenia of suffering that billions of humans have undergone. Not if "God" truly is "love".

I do believe that something created our universe (and us). I just don't think that the Bible writers had any insight into what that First Cause is. And it certainly isn't the "God" presented by the Bible.

I think that for anyone to try to claim that they know what the First Cause is , that person is deluding themselves. And trying to delude us.

I'm not even sure that we can understand the First Cause, because it has to exist outside of our universe. I am not sure we have a frame of reference that will allow us to understand the First Cause.

[ringemup]

ahaha, this thread has a little bit of everything. if you believe, you believe. if you dont, you dont. i dont know why a christian wants to try to prove something to an atheist when they have absolutely no proof. for all the believers out there, let me give you some advice...before arguing with an atheist, have some solid proof. the bible, by the way, is not proof of anything. it will be argued, with absolutely no possible proof, until death.

ringemup, you are an odd cat. i cant believe that you would actually come out in public and say that you believe stories in a book about people going to heaven and hell and being sent back. if you really believe this garbage and thats exactly what it is, garbage(to sell books), then why dont you send me your life savings and in a few hours, i can turn that into millions. really, believe me, i can do it. i just thought i would ask since you OBVIOUSLY believe anything...

this issue will never be resolved. every time something bad happens, Christians will revert back to the bible and tell everyone "says right here and told you so" or "this is his way of teaching us". atheist will always question "why bad things happen to good people. if there really is a higher power, then why does he let this happen?" this issue will never be resolved.

one thing i know for sure is that churches are money making machines. theres at least 5 new churches, all believing something different, within a 5 mile radius of my house.

well let me ask u sumthing. the guy who wrote 23 minutes in hell, had been a minister for 23 yrs before God gave him this vision in hell. he went around over hundreds of churches around the country to speak about his experience and all his experiences are quoted with biblical references throughout. if u wanna say its garbage, read the book for urself before u judge it based on wut im saying. yea, true bad things do happen to good people but its not a perfect world and that is why god gave free will, he didnt intend to stop us from enacting our free will. if there werent people in this world that belived in God, this world would be chaotic. sure theres corruption in churches but r u saying God has brought this upon thw world. if God would step in evry time to intervene in evrything bad that would happen, then this life had no purpose to begin with. u mite not be able to prove there is a god but can u prove there isnt one? look ive been around the church community for a long time and have heard people praying and going into wuts called a 'golden tongue' mode where they start speaking in gods language, n u kno wut it is backed up in the BIble that god may speak to us in a diff. language that cant be understood by another person. so im not here to tell u wut to believe in, jus telling u the knowledge ive gained from mi experiences.

[raydog]

i understand what you are saying. dont get me wrong, i grew up doing the church thing every week till i was 12 or so. i also know a lot of kids get tossed into church because thats what society thinks the parents should do. a few bad deaths and other friends/family matters put all the doubt in my head that i need. when you say "how can i prove that there isnt a god" what you dont understand is that i dont have to. christians are the ones selling the product. im not selling anything. if you want someone to believe in something, give them proof. thats just how i see it.

about your dude in the book... well of course he was a man of god. what happened to him? die on the table and was resuscitated or something? while that guy was probably pumped full of drugs...cmon dude, you know how many people make up bullshit stories about death after they get better? you know what this guy had? he had a fukking dream. or, he made all the shit up so he could write a book and go to all these churches and sell his book. wake up bro.

ya know, now that i think about it, a guy like Curious should come up with this same scheme. maybe fake a death, then come back and claim that he was sent to see both heaven and hell and was sent back here and given another chance to do some good or something. man, he could sell a shitload of books... "devout atheist comes back from the grave a believer" i can see it now..ahaha. seriously, i will never believe anything that someone tells me about that shit. you shouldnt either. (i get 25% for the idea curious, dont fuk me over)

[curious]

ya know, now that i think about it, a guy like Curious should come up with this same scheme. maybe fake a death, then come back and claim that he was sent to see both heaven and hell and was sent back here and given another chance to do some good or something. man, he could sell a shitload of books... "devout atheist comes back from the grave a believer" i can see it now..ahaha. seriously, i will never believe anything that someone tells me about that shit. you shouldnt either. (i get 25% for the idea curious, dont fuk me over)

I'm not an atheist. I do believe that there is a First Cause. I just don't believe that we have any idea what the nature of the First Cause is.

I do believe in spirituality. There really is something to shamanistic ecstasy and mysticism. Magik definitely exists. Both white and black. Humans can learn to wield its power. The ancients had capabilities that "modern" humans have lost. What is the root of this power? I have no idea. Where does the magik come from? I have no idea. My wife believes that this power comes from the human mind. That the reason some are able to practice magik is because they believe it, so the universe gives form to the belief. Basically she thinks that thought can become reality. I tend to agree with this to a point. I mean think about your "mundane" life. Whatever profession you have, you have it because at one point in your life you "thought" about it. Then you acted on it, so the thought became reality.

I have experienced a lot of strange things in my life. Things that cannot be explained unless there is "something" out there. I know for a fact that there are supernatural beings. Most of these are very malevolent. They are certainly not "gods". What are they? I have no idea. I do know they lie. And to the haters, no I do not use drugs.

Can humans grasp that which is outside the universe? I don't know. I do not believe so.

My belief system is very different from atheism.

Now, I do not believe that the creature presented to us in the Bible is the First Cause. I also do not believe that the properties attributed to "God" in the Bible are possible. Take "all powerful" for example. This word is actually meaningless. Can God create something that God cannot lift? No? Then God is not all powerful. Even if God does create the thing that God cannot lift, then the fact that He cannot lift it means that He is not all powerful. Here is another absurdity - God is "all knowing". Sounds good enough on the surface. But, now take this statement - God created humans to have "free will". Okay, so if God is "all knowing" then God knows everything we are going to do, in which case our lives are predestined and in which case we do NOT have free will. So, the Bible thumpers cannot have it both ways. Either humans have free will and God is not "all knowing" because God cannot know what every human might or might not do in a given situation due to free will. Or, God is "all knowing" which means our lives are predestined and we do not have free will.

See what I mean? The attributes assigned to God in the Bible are illogical and are being used to teach something that cannot possibly be true.

Do I have the answer? No. But, I know that the absurdity taught by the clergy is not the answer.

[Bread]

Jesus broke me on a hillside once and fed me to a bunch of filthy fukn fishermen.

We haven't been cool since that day.

[ringemup]

[quote=raydog;1457179]i understand what you are saying. dont get me wrong, i grew up doing the church thing every week till i was 12 or so. i also know a lot of kids get tossed into church because thats what society thinks the parents should do. a few bad deaths and other friends/family matters put all the doubt in my head that i need. when you say "how can i prove that there isnt a god" what you dont understand is that i dont have to. christians are the ones selling the product. im not selling anything. if you want someone to believe in something, give them proof. thats just how i see it.

about your dude in the book... well of course he was a man of god. what happened to him? die on the table and was resuscitated or something? while that guy was probably pumped full of drugs...cmon dude, you know how many people make up bullshit stories about death after they get better? you know what this guy had? he had a fukking dream. or, he made all the shit up so he could write a book and go to all these churches and sell his book. wake up bro.

ya know, now that i think about it, a guy like Curious should come up with this same scheme. maybe fake a death, then come back and claim that he was sent to see both heaven and hell and was sent back here and given another chance to do some good or something. man, he could sell a shitload of books... "devout atheist comes back from the grave a believer" i can see it now..ahaha. seriously, i will never believe anything that someone tells me about that shit. you shouldnt either. (i get 25% for the idea curious, dont fuk me over)[/quote


no, i agree with sum of wut ur saying, sum people have things happen to their family members or those close to them that can drive them far from God as a result. In fact, when i was young i actually didnt want to serve God for i thought it was gods fault evrytime sumthing went wrong. i kno sum guys in here like to talk about the side of God that makes him look like a monster, but wut u dont realize is God doesnt want for people to suffer in the end he wants to reward you with eternal life through Jesus' redemption of ur souls. n it does show that God felt the pain of ppl dying when he destroyed all the people except NOah and the animals and wiped out all living. n he vowed not to do this again and if u want proof, he made the rainbow the sign of this covenant he made with the ppl on earth to never bring this destruction upon the world. actually i kno this guy did not do it for the money because they actually gave away their sales profits to charities and other good causes. god chose this person to give the vision because he was fit to spread the message. he also quotes the Bible on this possibility of a vision entering someone's mind through God. if u think about all the work that went into him designing this planet we call earth and setting things in place, i dont think a man receiving a vision from God is all that phony.

[yisman]

this thread is just regurgitating old arguments.

None of it is useful. Believe what you believe.

[losturmarbles]

Jesus broke me on a hillside once and fed me to a bunch of filthy fukn fishermen.

We haven't been cool since that day.

thanks bread.