Safe to continue wagering at Actionbets?

[slash]

Bill, you are going to downgrade Actionbets to F if they don't pay, right?

I don't give a shit if this employee didn't work in his owners best interest. Pay the players and move on.

[elcajon101]

dark shit, santo, and bk

first of all dark shit i am not ur fucken bro. just because u got paid from them u r a sellout dark shit. aslo **** u santo and **** u aden ur guys r a bunch of thiefs that took our money. how in the **** u sleep at nite, knowing that u stole someone $?

[Dark Horse]

Whatever floats you boat, hun.

[TLasVegas702]

actionbet is getting desperate...

Adam get shit nothing from the players. His job was to email all loser players to reload..."you are up for a win.." He laughed out loud when players lose. This is a pathetic excuse. Adam won't get a dime from us until all players get paid. Adam can put his picture right next to osama binladen.

let me keep track of excuses from actionbet:
1) insufficient fund from netteller.
2) investigation of syndicate
3) adam gets cut from players
4) multiple account from one players etc.
5) same computer and IP
6) aden knows nothing

[Santo]

The other reason he might have helped them is the fact that he was getting a commission from us. So he took a risk: get them to deposit large amounts of money and hope they lose. If they win, the book has to pay them and he just goes to another book where he doesn't have a red figure. However, if they lose then he gets a fat comission check. He actually did leave without telling us and was switching his package over to another book behind our back. He would come in a couple of days a week to act like he was still here.

Yes, I remember now reading here about him enticing players to move to another book -- "solicitations from an ACTIONBETS employee to play at a different unrelated sportsbook" from the front page, and think there was a thread about it too..

This is the kind of thing that the TOW (or any other) arbitration panel would have been good for.. allow players who know the industry to look at the evidence and make a judgment, even if non-binding... it's a pity the Arbitration panel idea never took off.

[Dark Horse]

Please get your facts straight before posting.

The reason Danes are excluded from a very few books is not bonus scamming (although some books use that as an excuse). Instead it is bonus hunting which you would stupid not to.

The Vegas Strip group of casinos were the first to exclude Danes. They claimed it was due to chargebacking, which of course wasn't true. Instead the reason was that the Danes were too smart. They deposited only for the bonus and the casinos got killed.

I had no idea that Danes were smarter than everybody else. Learn something every day.

My point was that scammers and gamblers are not the same people, and that scammers can easily mess things up for gamblers.

I may be no Dane, but I do understand that people who do not distinguish between gamblers and scammers will find Actionbets extremely unfair.

[slash]

I had no idea that Danes were smarter than everybody else. Learn something every day.

My point was that scammers and gamblers are not the same people, and that scammers can easily mess things up for gamblers.

I may be no Dane, but I do understand that people who do not distinguish between gamblers and scammers will find Actionbets extremely unfair.

In the casino world the Danes were the first ones to be "too smart" for the casinos. A stupid web site owner (at least in the eyes of players that were bonus hunting prior to that) decided to tell about casino bonus hunting on national television, showing how easy you could make money off the casinos. That's how it all started.

There is a huge difference between bonus hunters and bonus abusers. I see no problem in bonus hunting, and I used to do it myself. The problem only arises if person x gets his friend in on it and decides to sign up at the same casinos/books using their id's and giving them some percentage of the bonus amount, while person x does all the betting.

In my opinion Actionbets needs to pay up. How come these players were allowed to play there for months? If the book wanted to play the syndicate card, they should have done it a long time ago, and not when the players start to withdraw. That constitutes scamming and stealing on the books part.

[Dark Horse]

Sure, Actionbets would probably do well to take some of the blame. I've said that from the start. But ALL of the blame?

One possible solution could be for AB to pay some of the money, and tell the scammers to try to get the rest from Adam. Maybe even throw in his address (maybe not). That's the guy mostly responsible for the whole mess. Let him feel some of the heat. He seems to have no problems creating cash flow.

In any case, getting on Aden's case here doesn't make any sense. The guy is under no obligation to try to explain the situation here. If this is a character question, and I believe that ultimately it is, you only have to read the posts from the different sides to get a pretty clear picture.

[slash]

I think this shows how untrustworthy Aden is:

To us he would be saying that he knew them, they were cool. And to them he would say things like: "Stop being so obvious, you need to use different computers. Sign up from different computers so it registers different IP addresses." He would email them from his personal email when necessary, not his ActionBets email.

Aden: Please prove this to us all. Please prove that those emails were indeed sent. How do you know? You have access to his personal email? Did some of the alleged syndicate players give you this info?

What goes against the players is the crap they are posting here.

[increasedodds]

In my limited dealings with Aden in the past as an affiliate, he was a stand up guy and I got paid after some effort (3 or 4 emails or phone calls each time) This is about average for the industry - some places pay without a call, some one call 1, some on call 3, and some on call 10.

I have never played at Actionbets, so I can not comment from a player's perspective.

A friend of mine added actionbets to his website at my recommendation (Basically a year or two ago he asked me which affiliates had paid). According to him, he has now been stiffed for about 4-6 weeks. I can't recall what he told me he is owed (Something like $300 or $500) but I do recall he said he spoke to Aden and someone else and both times was told no affiliate payments were going out because the "Big Boss" was reviewing the program. He was also told he would be sent an update but has never received one. He has asked me what to do, and I have told him - not much you can do - they hold the cards and it has not costed you anything. Just warn your players not to play there.

I was going to play at Action this football season, but given the current situation, I will not.

Confiscating a player's balance is ridiculous.

I do not care whether your employee was screwing you or not. Businesses have checks and balances to make sure they are not getting screwed. There is absolutely no way other employees at Actionbets did not know about the 25% bonuses. I have been told you guys run a very tight ship and that any wagers of any significant value go through one of two managers. There is no way these people did not know of these bonuses of significant value.

Additionally, your website recommends referring friends. In fact, to this day, it pays 10% for doing so. You can not ask people to refer friends and then accuse them of knowing each other. It is stupid to care about IP addresses when you ask people to refer people they know!!! Just check IDs.

IF the peoples' IDs and Neteller accounts check out pay them.


And now for the most alarming part:

From Actionbets:

"Promotions/bonus programs are in place for the enjoyment of recreational players. Any player deemed to have created a fraudulent account(s), be betting "steam" or "sharp" sides or part of a betting syndicate or bonus abusing group, may have bonuses revoked, wager limits lowered, and account balances absorbed or refunded, at the discretion of ActionBets management"

If I had found this while i still had my website up, I would have removed you and emailed everyone I knew. (I will still send the email if this is still up in a week)

If is ludicrous to reserve the right to STEAL an account balance at your discretion.

Keep the bonus. Keep winnings, but you can't keep deposits and stay in business.

SBR, if that rule stays on the site, I recommend an F.

So get with it, check IDs, pay your players, pay your affiliates, and delete the Theft clause. Otherwise just close your doors.

-Sean

[mt92131]

Not just Adam, the whole management know us...

Aden,
Dont try to put the blame on Adam. You are part of the scam too. You, Jason, and the owner know us playing for 4+ months and didnt do any shit. All your shit people think we would lose huh? Beside Adam, Aden knows us the best. Everybody, how did we know about his personal life such as his recent wedding. We were friends and he knows about us from the beginning.

[mt92131]

Good job Sean...

Thankyou Sean. Good to hear that. You are a scam, actionbets.

[increasedodds]

Darkhorse, I know nothing about Adam or the guys taking the bonuses.

I know for a while, I got an email every week offering a 25% bonus.

Had I taken that bonus, I like to think I would have been on the sharp side on some wagers.

Darkhorse, regardless of the bonus hunters situation, do you not have a problem with any book having in their rules:

""Promotions/bonus programs are in place for the enjoyment of recreational players. Any player deemed to have created a fraudulent account(s), be betting "steam" or "sharp" sides or part of a betting syndicate or bonus abusing group, may have bonuses revoked, wager limits lowered, and account balances absorbed or refunded, at the discretion of ActionBets management"

In my opinion if Pinnacle posted the above, they become and immediate F until removed.

-Sean

[slash]

If is ludicrous to reserve the right to STEAL an account balance at your discretion.

Keep the bonus. Keep winnings, but you can't keep deposits and stay in business.

SBR, if that rule stays on the site, I recommend an F.
-Sean

How can you say that it is fair to steal winnings? I certainly don't agree on that. Furthermore, if the bonus is rolled over as per the terms and conditions, confiscating it is stealing too.

I have absolutely no doubt that Actionbets are scammers in this case.

The players most probably aren't stand up guys either, but letting the players deposit for months, receive bonuses and then decide to steal their money come payout time just isn't right.

[Dark Horse]

Darkhorse, I know nothing about Adam or the guys taking the bonuses.

I know for a while, I got an email every week offering a 25% bonus.

Had I taken that bonus, I like to think I would have been on the sharp side on some wagers.

Darkhorse, regardless of the bonus hunters situation, do you not have a problem with any book having in their rules:

""Promotions/bonus programs are in place for the enjoyment of recreational players. Any player deemed to have created a fraudulent account(s), be betting "steam" or "sharp" sides or part of a betting syndicate or bonus abusing group, may have bonuses revoked, wager limits lowered, and account balances absorbed or refunded, at the discretion of ActionBets management"

In my opinion if Pinnacle posted the above, they become and immediate F until removed.

-Sean

All I can say is I went in with 2K and came out with almost 7K.
And I was paid as soon as I met my rollover.

I always had a positive impression of the people I dealt with, and I know that they are not scammers. As I've said before, it is not the challenge that matters, but how it is resolved. I'm quite sure they'll work it out.

In any case, I've given this far too much thought. lol

[Bill Dozer]

Ignorance is not an excuse. I'm looking at emails from Adam from months ago, sent from the Actionbets server, challenging the players to wager more and offering reloads.

Is AB going to claim they were oblivious to the activity going back six months?

Adam's emails weren't CCed to any of Mgt?

Adam had the ability to walk into AB, (out of RCS no less) and start handing out bonuses? Why was he performing mgt. duties?

No one runs an IP check for months?

Players are taking 4-figure payouts without providing IDs and new employee Adam is responsible for fraud prevention?

How much did these players "win" during the no-withdrawal "investigation"? These are bets they would never collect on.

Let's get this settled. 1-830-515-4122

[mt92131]

Aden, no more cover-up for this book buddy... The truth is out. Let end this....pay up please or close your shop.Thankyou.

[mapletree]

I agreed w/ mt92131. Either pay all players or closed your shop. Let end this....

[BK]

Anyways... I've already said enough. I've given you an honest account of what happened. I'm not posting to see who can come up with the best comeback. I'm posting to let you guys (the players) know what's going on... give you our side of the story.

Were there a lot of mistakes on our part? - Yes.

Should we pay for our mistakes? - Yes. And we did. We took a 6-figure loss from these scammers. The amount that they scammed from us is a lot more than what is in their accounts. The money on the last deposits was scam money.

I really don't know how you guys can rationalize sending these guys mone that #1 was money they had scammed from us and #2 was money that was being used to try to keep scamming us.

We tried to let you guys know what was going on. We called Bill to let him know of our decision BEFORE we told the "players" (I use that term loosely) of our decision. And Bill was invited to ActionBets offices to take a look at the evidence at that time as well. Invitation not yet accepted.

So at this point in time, there's nothing else I can do in the forums. I've given you guys our side of the story. However, it seems that a lot of posters, most of who haven't even called up ActionBets, much less wagered here, just want to see us go down. They seem to ALWAYS side against the book.

Yes, there are a lot of scam books out there. However, there are a lot of scam players as well, but a lot of you don't seem to realize that. A lot of you think it's always the book who is doing the scam.

What you don't realize is, that scammers affect legit players just as much as it affects the book.

I'm not talking about bonus hunters or bonus whores.... ActionBets has paid plenty of those. They're part of the industry. Bonuses are there for a reason, and players have every right to take advantage of them, but under the proper circumstances. Not using all your relatives names to sign up to get the bonuses over and over again. That's fraud. \

These are the people that are causing less and less books to offer the bonuses that players deserve.

So now that I've left our story on here, and said what I need to say, I will refrain from posting in this thread anymore. I no longer see it necessary.

Though you might see me in other threads that spark my interest.

Anyways guys... I'm out.




PS.

I agreed w/ mt92131. Either pay all players or closed your shop. Let end this....

Of course you agree. You two are the same person.

[Dark Horse]

Amazing, or is that amusing, that both mt92131 and mapletree use the same language: "let end this."

I would just LOVE to know how many people are really involved behind the scenes, but I guess we'll never know.

[mt92131]

Aden - f u. How can you say we are the same person. We sent our pic id over to you already. As for Dark Shit, f u too. Actionbets pay you to be on their side huh? F, let not end this.... Aden, u can stole my money and leave this place but what you/Actionbets scam us will never go away. Again, F U, Aden. Bill, This is getting nowhere. They are not paying. Just downgrade them to an F-.

[Dark Horse]

This is becoming a real tragedy.

This book could be on the brink. The court of public opinion is spinning in overdrive and could take them down. But if AB does survive this onslaught, I will definitely bet with them again. What's happening here is just plain wrong.

If this business was legal and regulated, these bonus scammers could be in jail! Yet here they're hiding behind the backs of honest gamblers, hoping for the same protection that we do -and they don't- deserve. And we're letting them?!

I must be missing something.

[Dark Horse]

Aden - f u. How can you say we are the same person. We sent our pic id over to you already. As for Dark Shit, f u too.

Well, thank you. I will ask my wife to comply as soon as she comes home.

No idea how Aden could be thinking this.

Let end this....

Let end this....

[Dark Horse]

Hope everybody is paying attention. This guy just said he had sent two ID's.

[Halifax]

Pretty clear to me that these guy(s) are scammer(s) ... the only question is how much of a penalty they deserve, and how much (if any) of the money should be refunded.

[mapletree]

Aden and Dark horse,
I just agreed with mt92131. i just wanted to end this messed. We're not the same person. So do your homework and stop making assumption.

[Dark Horse]

Dude, the proper English is "Let's end this."

Unless the language changed when I wasn't looking, which is possible, you just made the exact same spelling mistake twice in a row under different names. So not only are you not smart enough to gamble, and too dumb to pull off a scam, but you don't even know the f*cking language.

[TLasVegas702]

this is stupid

bottom line:

1) actionbet will not pay. Just downgrade from f- to scammer alert!!

2) dark horse and aden: you guys(or gals) are dumb. Just pick up the phone and talk to mapletree and MT. They are 2 different person. lame excuse. blind and ingorance. Aden..I expected more from you but oh well. Somehow dark horse got caught in the middle. He will get kill easily when 2 sides shoot.

[mapletree]

Hey dumb ass, just shut your mouth up. You dont know sh1t about me.

[Dark Horse]

Damage control coming in. This is not the same person. This guy has authority over the other.

Anybody can talk on the phone, pretty boy.

(Edit - hadn't seen Mapletree back. Keep talking Maple!).

[elcajon101]

dark shit/ dark horse

der r only two stupid people in this world and ur both them dark shit. next time if u don/t open ur fucken mouth people won't think u r stupid dark shit.

[Dark Horse]

This one is harder to read. lol

Animalistic probably comes closest.

Keep 'm coming.

[pags11]

man this is ugly...

[Dark Horse]

One man gives away a million dollars because he wants to help some cause, another gives away a million because he wants to be admired by society. The act is the same, but the motivation is completely different.

Every act is first born in thought. It is impossible to properly judge an act without understanding the mentality behind it.

Of course, it is more challenging when the mentalities behind a crime are very refined. A master thief draws some degree of admiration for his capacity to conceal his steps.

I don't think that, in this case, we have that problem. To put it mildly.

[Mudcat]

LET END THIS!!

I love it. It has kind of a Shakespearean quality. Like "Let end this, Mercutio, and be done with what bloody business ever!!"

It really gets embarassing when one person's multiple identities are so obvious.

At least give the alias sniffing dogs a challenge.