RIPOFF ALERT : All sports betting transactions in Germany, subjected to a 5% tax.

[sergiudec]

Yeah you read it good, about to be enforced tonight at 23:59.

All tax money collected, or something like 96% of it, will go as a donation to Germany's starving horse breeders.


Was wondering if any of you guys residing in Germany found any loopholes for this trash. I ain't about to "donate" 5% of my returns to any fukkin horse or those deadbeat midgeots riding them. Fukk them all.

Are the offshore books (eg Pinny, 5.dimes) also enforcing this ripoff?

If any of you managed to avoid this, please let me know how. I'm pissed off .

TIA.

[paranoyd androyd]

this is a horse betting tax only or all sports?

[CanuckG]

Roxxy check in

[darkhat]

first hitler, now this

you guys gotta get your shit together

[TheMoneyShot]

If this is real... I guess Germany is taking notes from Obama

[sergiudec]

this is a horse betting tax only or all sports?

This applies to all sports, but the revenues supposedly go to funding the German horse breeders. It's a ripoff, if they at least asked for some money in return for owning some shares on their breeder business or what not, who knows. But not like this, forced donations. WTF is this?

They drove the betting exchange out of Germany, Betfair ceased operations, as well as a number of other UK books. We are screwed. The papers don't write shit though, man they must hate them bookies.

ROXXXXXXXXXXXY where are you wtf are we gonna do ?

[stikymess]

Is this included as you make your wager or completed on winning wagers?

[sergiudec]

Is this included as you make your wager or completed on winning wagers?

Winning wagers only. They also force books to decline any wager under the 6% return. So in other words, we can't place wagers on LESS than 1.06 decimal odds, unless in a parlay. They got to be 1.07 or more.

[slash]

What a joke. Move a tad north to Denmark. Seems to be one of the only free places left.

[borednaz]

Winning wagers only. They also force books to decline any wager under the 6% return. So in other words, we can't place wagers on LESS than 1.06 decimal odds, unless in a parlay. They got to be 1.07 or more.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the EU has pretty lax borders right? If your successful enough of a punter for this to be a concern why not just setup operation elsewhere? I would suggest moving to a better country but that is probably to much of a stretch for you and you may love Germany other wise.

But it wouldn't take much to setup operation else where to dodge the tax.

[sergiudec]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the EU has pretty lax borders right? If your successful enough of a punter for this to be a concern why not just setup operation elsewhere? I would suggest moving to a better country but that is probably to much of a stretch for you and you may love Germany other wise.

But it wouldn't take much to setup operation else where to dodge the tax.

There's no more borders within the Schengen area, you're right.

It's not about me being awfully successful or not, it's about the fact that they want to tax some financial transaction occurring in some damn island, between me and some book. That in of itself is wrong.

I'm looking at a situation where for every won wager I would have to give up 5 euros. I'm not sure how many of the folks here would accept something like that either. Phew.

[benandjerry]

Sound absolutely absurd. Pretty sure EU ground laws are saying you're allowed not to pay tax on gambling winnings within EU which this law seems to be violating? Then again, most books arent in EU...

[Smoke]

At least you get to bet on sports legally pal

[Diesel79]

I dont get it.. How the hell your government or tax collectors even know about your winnings or how much you win? Pinny or 5D or any A rated book never gives out information like that?

[sergiudec]

I dont get it.. How the hell your government or tax collectors even know about your winnings or how much you win? Pinny or 5D or any A rated book never gives out information like that?

Got an e-mail from b365 saying 5% from all returns will be withheld by the book, so it's fukkin official.

Not sure about 5D, I don't have an account there. Maybe someone who wagers there can ask their Customer Service and drop an answer here, would be appreciated.

[Sawyer]

This is real? Horrible news. Betfair just withdrawed from germany..and now this. Must be hard days forgerman bettors..

Btw just curious, this %5 is just on net profit? or full wager? For example, %5 tax applies in North Cyprus too but it applies to full wager; let's say you bet 2000$ on -200 (1,50) odds and you win. Your net profit is 1000$ but you pay %5 of 3000$, the total return. Horrible.

[Diesel79]

Maybe only these books are affected by this who own your local gambling licence?

[sergiudec]

Maybe only these books are affected by this who own your local gambling licence?

I don't know, they've been brewing this law all summer long. I think you might be right, how they going to enforce a law offshore that would be impossible, unless they will force ISP's to block access to books like 5D.

Anyone kind enough to ask the 5D service whether they part of this grouse love affair?

[jayc88]

complete joke,
say goodbye to betfair and uk bookies ,
i dont think 5dimes, pinnacle, etc.. will enforce this rule, though

[Uga]

I ain't about to "donate" 5% of my returns to any fukkin horse

Don't talk like that of Angela Merkel.

[Duff85]

There's no more borders within the Schengen area, you're right.

It's not about me being awfully successful or not, it's about the fact that they want to tax some financial transaction occurring in some damn island, between me and some book. That in of itself is wrong.

I'm looking at a situation where for every won wager I would have to give up 5 euros. I'm not sure how many of the folks here would accept something like that either. Phew.

Def cuts into your edge hard.

Could the tax situation with books who won't withhold funds be like America where the player is expected to pay the tax and basically if the Tax Department catches up with you then it becomes an issue?

I hate seeing all these countries cracking down on gambling, adding taxes etc... I really hope some of this shit doesn't happen here in Australia.

[JayZ]

You won't get exchanges operating under regimes which tax on the basis of betting turnover.

I thought though that Betfair might have been able to use its still valid licence in Schleswig-Holstein with a 20% profits tax, but in the end they have decided just to withdraw.

[byronbb]

first hitler, now this

you guys gotta get your shit together

It's pretty rare Hitler jokes are actually funny but this was gold.

[Monte]

Nothing here yet..but i don't use fukking Betfair or UK books.
If Pinny and Matchbook are forced to do this (how?), i'll start getting pissed off...till then, fukk UK pussy books.

[Foxx]

If I understand correctly, at -110 pricing with the new tax, you'll now have to win 55.1% instead of 52.4% just to breakeven. Ouch.

As with many tax increases, the government will probably realize less revenue longterm relative to the status quo.

[CollegePro]

Winning wagers only. They also force books to decline any wager under the 6% return. So in other words, we can't place wagers on LESS than 1.06 decimal odds, unless in a parlay. They got to be 1.07 or more.

who actually put straight wager bet on that kind of odds??

[lottethedog]

Slightly incorrect report. Those with licenses in Germany (not all UK and EU books) will charge you 5%. You bet 100 bucks and your wager slip will show 95 bucks, the winnings then paid out on that.

Oh and this is ONLY FOR GERMAN RESIDENTS.

If you are anywhere else in the world and go to say bet365, you wont have this tax.

The 50 odd still applying for a license wont impose this.

If you are a decent punter (level) then it'll still be cheaper than 4 5d withdrawals in a month

Still so much for the EU being one state with rules for all - gambling europes last poor mans tax

[Monte]

The 50 odd still applying for a license wont impose this.

And what will they do instead?
Biz as usual? I think that's the interesting question..

[lottethedog]

And what will they do instead?
Biz as usual? I think that's the interesting question..

Continue as they are until they are refused/granted a license. Only the companies with them presently are charging as there will be no back tax charged

[sergiudec]

who actually put straight wager bet on that kind of odds??

Few people do that per se, I was just using it to demonstrate a scale of numbers.

@foxx yes and that 3% happens to be like half the edge you'd expect to realize. Chop chop........

@lotte you are perfectly right about the law situation, there are hundreds of laws conflicting eachother and you can be sure nobody will pull Germany's sleeve for chopping off uk books from the market.

I think I'll just move house to 5d / pinny and get over it.

Where the hell is roxxy ..... less he left this country we are in the same situation.

[JayZ]

Still so much for the EU being one state with rules for all - gambling europes last poor mans tax

The European Commission has already launched 'infringement proceedings' against Finland, Greece, Hungary, the Netherlands and Sweden concerning their gambling legislation being against the internal market or other EU laws. This is the 'second stage' of enforcement; the first stage 'letters of formal notice' has been sent to Germany.

From what I recall, the only EU country considered to have a free market in online gambling is the UK, and there has been consideration of changing this because of all the national licensing elsewhere.

[19th Hole]

Good for the German punter...Don't you feel better contributing your 5% for the bailout of Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy and the rest of the lawn fairy Euro Community ... Feels good doesn't it??

[benandjerry]

The European Commission has already launched 'infringement proceedings' against Finland, Greece, Hungary, the Netherlands and Sweden concerning their gambling legislation being against the internal market or other EU laws. This is the 'second stage' of enforcement; the first stage 'letters of formal notice' has been sent to Germany.

From what I recall, the only EU country considered to have a free market in online gambling is the UK, and there has been consideration of changing this because of all the national licensing elsewhere.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50290[/ATTACH]

This is what I'm thinking, that law has to violate some ground laws within EU. I know there has been cases in other countries where tax agencies has gone after some individual poker winners, but I have yet to hear about a case where they havent been shot down when the winnings occured within the EU. The grey area is often what is considered EU since a lot of companies have their headquarters, employees, and especially licenses on different places (often in tax paradises outside EU).

[shooterman]

The German local bookmakers are having their own little Novemberfest right about now.

[sergiudec]

well if there is someone actually losing money in this affair it's the bookies themselves as folks would most definitely move house offshore. We'll see what happens. I sent an e-mail to 5D and they said they will not tax anything on behalf of any government; So looks like a good place for me to move the toys.