fishboy

[Bradyd]

[quote=Goat Milk;5633697]Kobe already proved he is the best player in the world this year buddy. Until Lebron can win a ring, he will never be the best player in the world. End of discussion.[/quote]

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Being the best player has nothing to do with winning a championship. Winning a championship is based on having a great team. Key word: team. One person can't win a championship as Kobe prove this year. Lebron is the better player. In the history books, Kobe is way ahead of Lebron, but right now, Lebron is better than Kobe. Age is of course a factor. Just like right now, Gasol is better than Duncan. But in the history books, Duncan is one of the best Big Man to ever play in the NBA.. Right now, Howard is better than Shaq. But in the history books, Shaq is one of the best big men to ever play..
So don't confuse who holds the trophy at the end of the season, like many people do with who is the best player in the game. Sometimes they correlate but this is an instant where they don't..

[kobefanatic]

so ur saying that if they traded derek fisher for wade he would veto that trade
the answer is HELL NO

this is not NBA Fantasy

[kobefanatic]

Neither of those rosters are a championship team. My point is that both of them wanted/needed/needs another superstar to win. They wanted out. Kobe wanted to be traded and Lebron went to another team. So if you are goiong to bash Lebron you better bash Kobe too. If you are going to give Kobe a free pass, you better give Lebron one too.

And Yao isnt healthy anymore. So Gasol is the 2nd best big man in the game..

lakers roster in those years are not even shit the cavs roster are just one piece away from being serious contenders

[Bradyd]

lakers roster in those years are not even shit the cavs roster are just one piece away from being serious contenders

The Lakers just needed one piece from being serious contenders. Before they Got Gasol, they were 5th in the west. Once they got Gasol, they went into first place and then into the finals. So both teams were one piece away... They both wanted out, they both made a public spectacle out of the situation. The only difference is that the Lakers had the ability to bring in players. Cleveland didn't..

[Goat Milk]

[quote=Bradyd;5634523]

Kobe already proved he is the best player in the world this year buddy. Until Lebron can win a ring, he will never be the best player in the world. End of discussion.[/quote]

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Being the best player has nothing to do with winning a championship. Winning a championship is based on having a great team. Key word: team. One person can't win a championship as Kobe prove this year. Lebron is the better player. In the history books, Kobe is way ahead of Lebron, but right now, Lebron is better than Kobe. Age is of course a factor. Just like right now, Gasol is better than Duncan. But in the history books, Duncan is one of the best Big Man to ever play in the NBA.. Right now, Howard is better than Shaq. But in the history books, Shaq is one of the best big men to ever play..
So don't confuse who holds the trophy at the end of the season, like many people do with who is the best player in the game. Sometimes they correlate but this is an instant where they don't..

Bro What the Fuk are you smoking? Did you not watch the playoffs this year? Who showed up and who didn't? Who is playing with 2 broken fingers? Who just got knee surgery when the season ended?

Kobe playing with bad knees, bad fingers, and he still put up over 30 a game in the playoffs this year, 6 boards, and 6 dimes. Kobe dismantled the Suns in that series single handedly. Did you not see what he did in Boston in game 4?

Everytime I bet against Kobe I shit myself. I had 1k on Boston in game 4 and they won. Everytime Kobe touched the ball I would be like fukk me, and he would knock down a 3 right after that. Lebron is not to be feared. He has no outside game, you can't beat the celtics just putting your head down and trying to get to the rim everytime. They already showed Kobe you can't beat them like that when he tried doing that in 08.

You are mixing up Talented with Better. CORRECTION: Lebron is more talented than Bryant. Bryant is the best player in the world right now, and has been the best for at least 5-6 years. Stop looking at stats all the time you think just because Lebron puts up the best stats he is the best?

Tell me what Lebron has done besides winning 2 MVPs to warrant him being considered the best player in the world.....please enlighten me.

[Bradyd]

[quote=Goat Milk;5637457][quote=Bradyd;5634523]

Bro What the Fuk are you smoking? Did you not watch the playoffs this year? Who showed up and who didn't? Who is playing with 2 broken fingers? Who just got knee surgery when the season ended?

Kobe playing with bad knees, bad fingers, and he still put up over 30 a game in the playoffs this year, 6 boards, and 6 dimes. Kobe dismantled the Suns in that series single handedly. Did you not see what he did in Boston in game 4?

Everytime I bet against Kobe I shit myself. I had 1k on Boston in game 4 and they won. Everytime Kobe touched the ball I would be like fukk me, and he would knock down a 3 right after that. Lebron is not to be feared. He has no outside game, you can't beat the celtics just putting your head down and trying to get to the rim everytime. They already showed Kobe you can't beat them like that when he tried doing that in 08.

You are mixing up Talented with Better. CORRECTION: Lebron is more talented than Bryant. Bryant is the best player in the world right now, and has been the best for at least 5-6 years. Stop looking at stats all the time you think just because Lebron puts up the best stats he is the best?

Tell me what Lebron has done besides winning 2 MVPs to warrant him being considered the best player in the world.....please enlighten me.[/quote]

Tell me what Kobe has done besides winning the last two titles??? You can't just exclude hardware to try and make a point. It doesn't work that way buddy.

Everybody was hurt. At that point in the season, everybody is. Kobe did have some injuries but not significant enough to stop playing. Shin splits don't require sugery but they are brutal and can have an impact on a players play. Kobe was about 80-85% during the playoffs. Just like everybody else. Players play through injuries all the time. The better ones, like Kobe know how to make it work. But to think he would be in his 2006 form without the injuries is beyond insanity.

Now, how is it that you can use stats for Kobe, but I can't bring them in for Lebron?? So Kobe destroyed the Suns, last time I checked they don't play any defense. They are a run and gun style offense. Expect numbers to be up. But as you did, I will be ignoring your "no stats rule" because I know that stats are the single most important factor when comparing players. Here's a look at both players when they played boston as for obvious reasons.

Kobe: 28.5ppg, 40.9fg 3.8ast, 3.8to, 8rb, .71blk
Lebron: 26.8ppg, 43.1fg 7.1ast, 4.5to, 9.3rb, 1.3blk

Both struggled some but Lebron was the better overall player. Just like on the season as well. Overall, Lebron does it all. Just like during the season. Injuries or not, Kobe won't and never have put up those stats. During his prime he didn't. Do you know why Kobe was considered the best player in those previous years?? Stats, not because of what his team did. His team had early playoff exits during some of those years. So don't sit here and tell me stats don't matter. What are you proposing we compare them from? ESPN highlights? No thank you. (Even though Lebron would probably win at that too)

Don't blame let your betting woes decide who the best player is. Bryant is not the best player in the world right now. He was. You sound just like the people who said Wade was better than Kobe in 2006, just because he won the championship. Championship does not = best player in the world. Stats alone don't determine the best player either, but it's the single most important factor in determining it. It accounts for 75% of it. Chris Paul has talent, Wade has talent, Rose has talent. But none of those player are better than Kobe. ( Although I believe Wade is right there with him). Lebron is the better overall player. Kobe has Lebron is certain areas, but overall, Lebron takes it.... Lebron is the best player in the world.

[Pick'nParlays]

shrimp boy

[kobefanatic]

The Lakers just needed one piece from being serious contenders. Before they Got Gasol, they were 5th in the west. Once they got Gasol, they went into first place and then into the finals. So both teams were one piece away... They both wanted out, they both made a public spectacle out of the situation. The only difference is that the Lakers had the ability to bring in players. Cleveland didn't..

are you really serious? lakers are just a piece away from serious contention? that summer they only got fishboy back and they're a piece away from being serious contenders? here's the lineup in case you forget bynum(injured in january against memphis) kwame brown, odom, kobe, fisher, radmanovic,ariza(got traded for cook and evans) farmar,aside from kobe only lamar,fisher is worth anything back then, bynum was coming into his own but was injured midway to the season, radmanovic can't even be consistent, ariza no consistent shot back then more of a slasher that time and you call that one piece away from being contenders?

[kobefanatic]

crittenton was a rookie back then, mihm was injured and in no shape to be a contributor he was never the same after the freak accident

[Pick'nParlays]

bol everyone

[Pick'nParlays]

feeling good about todays card

[Bradyd]

are you really serious? lakers are just a piece away from serious contention? that summer they only got fishboy back and they're a piece away from being serious contenders? here's the lineup in case you forget bynum(injured in january against memphis) kwame brown, odom, kobe, fisher, radmanovic,ariza(got traded for cook and evans) farmar,aside from kobe only lamar,fisher is worth anything back then, bynum was coming into his own but was injured midway to the season, radmanovic can't even be consistent, ariza no consistent shot back then more of a slasher that time and you call that one piece away from being contenders?

Well that's the same lineup they had until they got Gasol. Once they got him the Lakers went from 5th place to first. Then to the finals. Now tell me how does that happen? They were one piece away, GASOL! Without Gasol, 5th place. With Gasol, 1st place then Finals! How is that not one piece away????

[kobefanatic]

Well that's the same lineup they had until they got Gasol. Once they got him the Lakers went from 5th place to first. Then to the finals. Now tell me how does that happen? They were one piece away, GASOL! Without Gasol, 5th place. With Gasol, 1st place then Finals! How is that not one piece away????

with that same lineup the previous year minus fisher and ariza where were they?

[Bradyd]

with that same lineup the previous year minus fisher and ariza where were they?

I'm going to the last game before Gasol started playing. So about 45 games into the season for both years


2006-2007, 45 games in they were 27-18: 60%
2007-2008, 45 games in they were 29-16: 64%

Not much difference there. Gasol was the one piece they needed. Of course they could always use other additions to, just like the 2 time defending champions today could also use some more additions. No team is perfect. But the Lakers, like Cleveland needed one piece to be considered real contenders.

[Poster X]

fisher likes la, with duaghter

[kobefanatic]

I'm going to the last game before Gasol started playing. So about 45 games into the season for both years


2006-2007, 45 games in they were 27-18: 60%
2007-2008, 45 games in they were 29-16: 64%

Not much difference there. Gasol was the one piece they needed. Of course they could always use other additions to, just like the 2 time defending champions today could also use some more additions. No team is perfect. But the Lakers, like Cleveland needed one piece to be considered real contenders.

they finished 42-40 for the 2006-2007 season not just one piece away from serious contention, that team needed some serious retooling back then

[Bradyd]

they finished 42-40 for the 2006-2007 season not just one piece away from serious contention, that team needed some serious retooling back then

They were in the same place in 2007 and 2008. They only "serious" thing they did was get Gasol. Facts are the facts. They needed one piece to be a serious contender and they got it. They didn't revamp their entire team in 2008. They picked up a few small pieces, like every team does every year and then they made a huge trade for Gasol. That was the difference...

[kobefanatic]

They were in the same place in 2007 and 2008. They only "serious" thing they did was get Gasol. Facts are the facts. They needed one piece to be a serious contender and they got it. They didn't revamp their entire team in 2008. They picked up a few small pieces, like every team does every year and then they made a huge trade for Gasol. That was the difference...

gasol is just that good but to say that lakers are just one piece away from being serious contenders in 07 and start of 08 is insane if they're that good kobe wouldn't go crazy at the start of the season

[Bradyd]

gasol is just that good but to say that lakers are just one piece away from being serious contenders in 07 and start of 08 is insane if they're that good kobe wouldn't go crazy at the start of the season

Well that one piece, Gasol made them contenders. I'm looking at what actually happened, not how the best player in the league at the time took his team to a 40 loss season. That's a debate for another day, I can only go by what actually happened. It's insane to think that after all the facts say otherwise , that the lakers needed a major retooling. No they didn't, they needed another superstar. Because all the got from one season to the next was Gasol, there was no major retooling. Superstars make a difference. Gasol was that superstar. Therefore the Lakers became instant title contenders.

[brandon m]

It doesn't matter, he still got turned down.. And Matt Barnes is not better than bell. Once again, you are blinded by the purple and gold.

BTW, good luck with that Barnes is better than bell argument...

Honestly don't know how you think Raja Bell is better than Barnes. Because he makes more money? Barnes is a much better fit for the lakers anyways. Lakers need defense and toughness from the second unit, not guys who jack up bad 3s 5 seconds into the shot clock.

[Bradyd]

Honestly don't know how you think Raja Bell is better than Barnes. Because he makes more money? Barnes is a much better fit for the lakers anyways. Lakers need defense and toughness from the second unit, not guys who jack up bad 3s 5 seconds into the shot clock.

I don't know whow much money either of them makes, but I know Bell is better. I would love for you to prove me wrong. I'm not talking about who is a better fit for LA. I'm talking about who is the better player. Oh yeah in case you haven't noticed, Bell does play defense. But you probably forgot that once you seen the "Lakers sign Barnes" headlines...

[jsmithj88]

this is not NBA Fantasy

i will take that as u are wrong and i am right

[Goat Milk]

[quote=Bradyd;5638117]

Tell me what Kobe has done besides winning the last two titles??? You can't just exclude hardware to try and make a point. It doesn't work that way buddy.

Everybody was hurt. At that point in the season, everybody is. Kobe did have some injuries but not significant enough to stop playing. Shin splits don't require sugery but they are brutal and can have an impact on a players play. Kobe was about 80-85% during the playoffs. Just like everybody else. Players play through injuries all the time. The better ones, like Kobe know how to make it work. But to think he would be in his 2006 form without the injuries is beyond insanity.

Now, how is it that you can use stats for Kobe, but I can't bring them in for Lebron?? So Kobe destroyed the Suns, last time I checked they don't play any defense. They are a run and gun style offense. Expect numbers to be up. But as you did, I will be ignoring your "no stats rule" because I know that stats are the single most important factor when comparing players. Here's a look at both players when they played boston as for obvious reasons.

Kobe: 28.5ppg, 40.9fg 3.8ast, 3.8to, 8rb, .71blk
Lebron: 26.8ppg, 43.1fg 7.1ast, 4.5to, 9.3rb, 1.3blk

Both struggled some but Lebron was the better overall player. Just like on the season as well. Overall, Lebron does it all. Just like during the season. Injuries or not, Kobe won't and never have put up those stats. During his prime he didn't. Do you know why Kobe was considered the best player in those previous years?? Stats, not because of what his team did. His team had early playoff exits during some of those years. So don't sit here and tell me stats don't matter. What are you proposing we compare them from? ESPN highlights? No thank you. (Even though Lebron would probably win at that too)

Don't blame let your betting woes decide who the best player is. Bryant is not the best player in the world right now. He was. You sound just like the people who said Wade was better than Kobe in 2006, just because he won the championship. Championship does not = best player in the world. Stats alone don't determine the best player either, but it's the single most important factor in determining it. It accounts for 75% of it. Chris Paul has talent, Wade has talent, Rose has talent. But none of those player are better than Kobe. ( Although I believe Wade is right there with him). Lebron is the better overall player. Kobe has Lebron is certain areas, but overall, Lebron takes it.... Lebron is the best player in the world.

Your lack of NBA knowledge really comes through here.

Lebron is built for the Regular season, he will never win on his own. And that will always be remembered. He doesn't have the drive that Wade Kobe and Jordan have, the need to win, the need to take out your heart and step on it until you are completely destroyed. He is a clown, just like Dwight Howard.

You just said that stats determine who a better player is 75% of the time. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this forum. Steve Nash put up better stats this year than the years he won MVP and he wasn't even a candidate this year, why? You say that Kobe will never get Lebron's stats.

Will Lebron ever score 81 in a game? 62 after 3 quarters? Will he ever average 36 a game during the regular season? The answer is no.

Will Lebron make as many all defense first teams as Kobe? The answer is no.

Will Lebron win as many rings as Kobe? The answer is no.

Will Lebron ever be put in the same discussion as Kobe and Jordan? The answer is no. His move to Miami proves he must depend on a true leader- and he will never succeed as the focal point of a team. You think Lebron is the focal point of Miami? Wade is the focal point buddy, and Wade will take any last shot if it comes down to it.

Will Lebron ever be a better 1 on 1 (not team) defender than Kobe? No. Will Lebron ever have a midrange game like Kobe? The answer is no. Not even Jordan's midrange game can compare to Kobe's. Lebron is a more explosive player, more athletic, but he doesn't have Kobe's drive to win. Ruthlessness. That's what winning is about. Its about who is more ruthless and persistent. Kobe goes for the kill. Lebron wins battles, Kobe wins wars.

Lebron does not put fear into peoples eyes.

A survey was conducted with 190 NBA players, question asked "who would you want to take the last shot of a game if they were on your team"
- Over 75 % of CURRENT NBA PLAYERS said Kobe.
- 3% Voted for Lebron.

I can go on and on but I don't want to waste my time.

[kobefanatic]

i will take that as u are wrong and i am right

is it possible for that to happen in the real world? it's not a realistic trade that could possibly happen

[kobefanatic]

Well that one piece, Gasol made them contenders. I'm looking at what actually happened, not how the best player in the league at the time took his team to a 40 loss season. That's a debate for another day, I can only go by what actually happened. It's insane to think that after all the facts say otherwise , that the lakers needed a major retooling. No they didn't, they needed another superstar. Because all the got from one season to the next was Gasol, there was no major retooling. Superstars make a difference. Gasol was that superstar. Therefore the Lakers became instant title contenders.

which tier of superstar do you think gasol belongs?

[kobefanatic]

Well that one piece, Gasol made them contenders. I'm looking at what actually happened, not how the best player in the league at the time took his team to a 40 loss season. That's a debate for another day, I can only go by what actually happened. It's insane to think that after all the facts say otherwise , that the lakers needed a major retooling. No they didn't, they needed another superstar. Because all the got from one season to the next was Gasol, there was no major retooling. Superstars make a difference. Gasol was that superstar. Therefore the Lakers became instant title contenders.

do you think the other superstar like lebron/ wade can take that laker team 05-07 to the playoffs in that western conference, east was weaker back then

[kobefanatic]

I don't know whow much money either of them makes, but I know Bell is better. I would love for you to prove me wrong. I'm not talking about who is a better fit for LA. I'm talking about who is the better player. Oh yeah in case you haven't noticed, Bell does play defense. But you probably forgot that once you seen the "Lakers sign Barnes" headlines...

let's wait and see during this upcoming season who's the better player among the 2

[Goat Milk]

do you think the other superstar like lebron/ wade can take that laker team 05-07 to the playoffs in that western conference

fuk no. not even a chance.

[Bradyd]

[quote=Goat Milk;5648285]

Your lack of NBA knowledge really comes through here.

Lebron is built for the Regular season, he will never win on his own. And that will always be remembered. He doesn't have the drive that Wade Kobe and Jordan have, the need to win, the need to take out your heart and step on it until you are completely destroyed. He is a clown, just like Dwight Howard.

You just said that stats determine who a better player is 75% of the time. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this forum. Steve Nash put up better stats this year than the years he won MVP and he wasn't even a candidate this year, why? You say that Kobe will never get Lebron's stats.

Will Lebron ever score 81 in a game? 62 after 3 quarters? Will he ever average 36 a game during the regular season? The answer is no.

Will Lebron make as many all defense first teams as Kobe? The answer is no.

Will Lebron win as many rings as Kobe? The answer is no.

Will Lebron ever be put in the same discussion as Kobe and Jordan? The answer is no. His move to Miami proves he must depend on a true leader- and he will never succeed as the focal point of a team. You think Lebron is the focal point of Miami? Wade is the focal point buddy, and Wade will take any last shot if it comes down to it.

Will Lebron ever be a better 1 on 1 (not team) defender than Kobe? No. Will Lebron ever have a midrange game like Kobe? The answer is no. Not even Jordan's midrange game can compare to Kobe's. Lebron is a more explosive player, more athletic, but he doesn't have Kobe's drive to win. Ruthlessness. That's what winning is about. Its about who is more ruthless and persistent. Kobe goes for the kill. Lebron wins battles, Kobe wins wars.

Lebron does not put fear into peoples eyes.

A survey was conducted with 190 NBA players, question asked "who would you want to take the last shot of a game if they were on your team"
- Over 75 % of CURRENT NBA PLAYERS said Kobe.
- 3% Voted for Lebron.

I can go on and on but I don't want to waste my time.

Your lack of knowledge and reading skills continue to astound me. Let's first clear up some things you fail to read and understand. First, I said stats is the single most important factor when comparing players. It accounts for 75% of it. Meaning 75% of the weight used to compare these players comes from stats. Honestly it's actually more but I was being conservative. So I don't know where you got that sentence you clearly put in my mouth, or paragraph in this instant but you need to take it back where you got it from. I agree with you when you said it's the dumbest thing you heard on this forum, unfortunately you, for it came from you!! (Now of couse when comparing the best players in history together, the stat percentages go down to less than 50%. But when comparing who's better right now, stats make up the majority) Second, Lebron joined Wade and Bosh, but Lebron is the focal point not Wade. Don't get caught up in the hype. Lebron has a style similar to Magics, not Jordan or Kobe's. He is one of the most unselfish players on the court. So how he gets everybody involved will be crucial. Wade maybe leading the offensive battle, but Lebron is making sure everything runs smoothly. Lebron is much more than a scorer. So is Wade but Lebron is better at it. It's his job to create the chemistry between everyone. That's his game and he is one of the best at it. And Wade probably will take the last shot, but Lebron will put them in the position to win with the last shot.

"Lebron will never win one on his own." Once again you seem to be following the hype. I though you knew basketball?? If you do it's def. not showing. Kobe never won one on his own. He always had a superstar with him. Jordan never won one on his own. Magic didn't, Bird didn't, Shaq didn't, Wade didn't, and the list could go on and on. The only person in the last 2 decades you can say won it on there own is The Dream. Everybody else had another superstar. (Won't count Detriot as nobody was a superstar on that team). So I don't know what you are talking about...

Being a winner has nothing to do with "taking a person's heart out and stepping on it" or being ruthless. That's just the personality of the Best player ever and Kobe. It's not a requirement to win. Are you making this stuff up as you go along? The two-time defending champion, The Dream, didn't have that mentality. Neither did Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Bird, Wade, etc... They all had a competitive nature to them, winners do. But they didn't have Jordan's killer instinct. That's in an whole new ballpark. As they say in Geometry class, Jordan killer instinct was an outlier. (Outside of the norm) So comparing two great players (Jordan and Kobe) who happen to have the same personalility and applying it to everyone is more insane than that comment you made up about me. Winners are competitve, but don't get it confused with them all being like Jordan on the personality level. Lebron is competitive enough to want to go to a better team and win. Kobe wanted the same thing a few years ago, but I guess you forgot about that. It figures..

Kobe wins wars, with great teams. Without great teams, he will be like he was in those titleless years. You need great teams to win, Lebron never had one. We already Lebrons stats are much better than Kobe's, so is Jordan's but everybody already knows that. No need to mention them. So Kobe scored 81 points in 1 game. It was a great performance. For 1 game out of 82. That's one game. That hardly determines who is the best player. Because if a scoring fest in 1 game did, the best player in the history of the nba would look like this:

1.Wilt Chamberlain 2.Kobe 3.David thompson 4.David Robinson 5. Elgin Baylor Do you really want to have this conversation?? We don't know what the history hold for Lebron. Will he be mentioned with Jordan, he certainly could. You sound like the same people who said Kobe would never be mentioned with Jordan. Will Lebron ever be considered better than Jordan, probably not. 7 years in Cleveland did that, joining Miami has nothing to do with that. Once again, stop following the hype! Don't follow the public populism. Keep things into perspective.

[kobefanatic]

fuk no. not even a chance.

do you think that lakers roster need a major retooling too? that 05-07 one, i'm pretty sure that roster isn't a one piece away from being serious contender team

[Bradyd]

do you think the other superstar like lebron/ wade can take that laker team 05-07 to the playoffs in that western conference, east was weaker back then

Lebron yes. He style of play can do that. He gets everyone involved. I think Lebron def. could. Wade maybe, he must stay healthy to have a good shot. But we all have to remember that Lebron and Wade of today, were not as good as Kobe then. I think Lebron is better than Kobe now. Not the Kobe of 2006..

[Goat Milk]

Bardyy,

Do not question my NBA knoweldge

I have always said Kobe will go down as minimum the 2nd best player ever to oplay the game. I said this when he was drafted into the league. Wade is a better 1 on 1 defender than Lebron, Lebron is only a better team defender. Wade gets more blocks than him and hes 5 inches shorter. theres a little stat for you.

You still didn't answer the question. Kobe wins wars. By the way Gasol was NEVER a superstar til he played with Kobe. HE WAS AN ALL STAR AT BEST. A SUPERSTAR CAN CARRY A TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS ON THEIR OWN CONSISTENTLY

Why did 75% of NBA players want Kobe taking the last shot. What NBA Players don't know anything your saying? And don't tell me the clutchest player in the league isn't the best player, because it is. Jerry West was the best at the time, Jordan was during his era, Bird during the Magic-Bird (Bird or Magic could have been argued as the best during that period with maybe Kareem), pre-JOrdan Era, and then Kobe during the Kobe era.

From this you extra Kobe and Jordan, the two clutchest players that ever lived, and these guys like Bird are not even on their level. They are just on a different pedestal. Number 1 and 2 best ever.

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Bird/Big O

Bird or Oscar will be replaced on that list once Lebron wins 2+ rings. That is yet to be seen. If Kobe wins this year he is the best ever.

[kobefanatic]

Lebron yes. He style of play can do that. He gets everyone involved. I think Lebron def. could. Wade maybe, he must stay healthy to have a good shot. But we all have to remember that Lebron and Wade of today, were not as good as Kobe then. I think Lebron is better than Kobe now. Not the Kobe of 2006..

does getting everyone involved with that lakers team the key to winning? please take a look at the lakers roster back then, they can't even score consistently, smush can't hit the 3 to save his life, odom too inconsistent to be a 2nd fiddle, kwame can't catch a pass consistently and radmanovic lost his touch after that 5 year contract now we have the bench brian cook, farmar seriously lebron is a great player he gets everyone involved but are those guys good enough to score on his passes? kobe has to take it upon himself to get their team into the playoffs

[Bradyd]

[quote=Goat Milk;5653537]Bardyy,

Do not question my NBA knoweldge

I have always said Kobe will go down as minimum the 2nd best player ever to oplay the game. I said this when he was drafted into the league. Wade is a better 1 on 1 defender than Lebron, Lebron is only a better team defender. Wade gets more blocks than him and hes 5 inches shorter. theres a little stat for you.

You still didn't answer the question. Kobe wins wars. By the way Gasol was NEVER a superstar til he played with Kobe. HE WAS AN ALL STAR AT BEST. A SUPERSTAR CAN CARRY A TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS ON THEIR OWN CONSISTENTLY

Why did 75% of NBA players want Kobe taking the last shot. What NBA Players don't know anything your saying? And don't tell me the clutchest player in the league isn't the best player, because it is. Jerry West was the best at the time, Jordan was during his era, Bird during the Magic-Bird (Bird or Magic could have been argued as the best during that period with maybe Kareem), pre-JOrdan Era, and then Kobe during the Kobe era.

From this you extra Kobe and Jordan, the two clutchest players that ever lived, and these guys like Bird are not even on their level. They are just on a different pedestal. Number 1 and 2 best ever.

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Bird/Big O

Bird or Oscar will be replaced on that list once Lebron wins 2+ rings. That is yet to be seen. If Kobe wins this year he is the best ever.[/quote]

Wow you went from saying insane things, to super insane things. Where is your proof that Kobe is better than Jordan? And lets' just say Kobe wins 7 rings. Where is your proof? Rings alone don't determine who is the best player. Because if it did, Bill Russell would be the best ever. And your list would not have Kobe as number 2, but Kareem. Where do you get this stuff?? And Kobe is not number 2 yet.. I happen to know how good some of the legends were...

And no, the clutchest player in the league isn't always the best. Usually, the best players in the league are clutch. So Lebron is not clutch now? Lebron is not one of the best closers? Yes he is. He really is. Lebron is actually more efficient than Kobe in last 5 minutes of a close game. So if you were somehow saying Lebron isn't clutch than you are wrong.

Superstars don't always make the playoffs. Gasol took the Memphis Grizzles to the playoffs 3 times out the 6 years full-years he played with the team. That's not bad for a crappy team and stacked west. Sometimes superstars can't get it done. And Gasol numbers, with the exception in rebounds this past season, are pretty much the same he has always been getting. And you say Gasol was never a superstar until he played with Kobe, that's intersting. Because by the logic, Kobe was never considered the best Laker until he played with Gasol. What you must realize is that the statements you make have a way of coming back to haunt you. They can cut both ways...

[Bradyd]

does getting everyone involved with that lakers team the key to winning? please take a look at the lakers roster back then, they can't even score consistently, smush can't hit the 3 to save his life, odom too inconsistent to be a 2nd fiddle, kwame can't catch a pass consistently and radmanovic lost his touch after that 5 year contract now we have the bench brian cook, farmar seriously lebron is a great player he gets everyone involved but are those guys good enough to score on his passes? kobe has to take it upon himself to get their team into the playoffs

Bringing out the best in players is a key component of winning. Lebron is one of the best in the league at doing that. It's taking medicore players and making them look a lot better than what they really are. It's about having the skill to create chemistry between you and your team. Look at the Cavs. Lebron is an expert at doing that.