For those who don't think Lebron is clutch...

[jsmithj88]

kobe is more of a scorer while lebron is a facilitator 2004-2005 27.6 2005-2006 35.4 2006-2007 31.6 2007-2008 28.3 are those stats bad?

from ur points yea, its garbage, he didnt win any titles during those years

[kobefanatic]

You don't get it. First off, Kobe didn't shake hands after either loss to the Cavs this year. I don't think it matters all that much, but if you want to turn Lebron into a bad guy for doing it once let's at least be fair.

Second, how can you possibly defend Kobe's incredibly childish behavior? Kobe was shooting everything in sight in the first half. Phil told him he was shooting too much and to be more selective at half time. Kobe protested like a child and refused to shoot for the rest of the game.

Also, there is no defending Kobe's insistence on trading Shaq. Keeping Shaq would have meant 2 or 3 more rings, easily. Instead, Kobe couldn't stand sharing the spotlight and chose losing. And people call this guy a winner? Please.

Lebron took a team that started Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlovic, and Drew Gooden to the Finals, how come Kobe couldn't get there with his poor teams?

lebron is playing in the east and the only threat to them back then was detroit pistons, eric snow as pg is a real disaster along with smush parker, lebron had larry hughes was not that bad back then, ilgauskas, gooden, and undeveloped varejao is a lot better than kwame, young bynum, only lamar is really notable to play along side kobe in those years, and kobe has to face the suns in each of those years it's pretty bad matchup for them

[suicidekings]

Did you see tonight? He took over in the fourth and gave the Cavs no chance of losing. Yeah, Kobe's buzzer-beaters have been nice, but he can't close a game like Lebron.

I don't think Lebron's clutch abilities have ever been in question, have they? Who was doubting him?

[kobefanatic]

Those are regular season numbers, not postseason. Also, Lebron average more PPG than any of those IN THE PLAYOFFS while still have 9+ rebounds and 7+ assists per game.

Oh yeah, and Kobe never shot above 47% in any of those seasons. Lebron is over 50% this year.

kobe relies more on jump shots so it's easier for him to have a lower FG % lebron tends to drive inside most of the time, kobe is relied on scoring not facilitating and he's a guard compared to lebron who plays 1 to 4

[kobefanatic]

from ur points yea, its garbage, he didnt win any titles during those years

the 1st 3 years his supporting cast are bad, only lamar is good, the year he won mvp he faced a hungry boston team with an injured team and inexperienced team

[jsmithj88]

kobe is more of a scorer while lebron is a facilitator 2004-2005 27.6 2005-2006 35.4 2006-2007 31.6 2007-2008 28.3 are those stats bad?

1st it wasn't shown in the headlines and not talked in the media 2nd when did that game happen? where did you see the report about phil telling kobe to be more selective about his shots? 3rd kobe was entering his prime back then and shaq is already on the decline, shaq doesn't want to share the spotlight and take a backseat to kobe, so kobe has to take all those blame?

u dont think kobe was the one behind this trade? u gotta be realistic about it. y in the world would the lakers want to trade him unless kobe wanted it done? y do u think they put the lakers vs the heat on christmas the next couple years after the trade? y did we constantly hear about kobe winning with his own team, his own legacy?

[williams22]

1st it wasn't shown in the headlines and not talked in the media

2nd when did that game happen? where did you see the report about phil telling kobe to be more selective about his shots?

3rd kobe was entering his prime back then and shaq is already on the decline, shaq doesn't want to share the spotlight and take a backseat to kobe, so kobe has to take all those blame?

Of course it wasn't in the media, people only go crazy over Lebron stories.

Here's your hero: http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/chri...ot_pout_the_mo

Yes, Kobe gets the blame for being a selfish prick. Shaq still had enough in the tank for another championship or two (hell, he did it with Wade instead). Yeah Kobe couldn't put winning above his childish need for attention.

[williams22]

kobe relies more on jump shots so it's easier for him to have a lower FG % lebron tends to drive inside most of the time, kobe is relied on scoring not facilitating and he's a guard compared to lebron who plays 1 to 4

Lebron shoots plenty from outside. He actually takes far more 3s than Kobe and shoots a higher percentage from there as well. Take the blinders off.

[williams22]

I don't think Lebron's clutch abilities have ever been in question, have they? Who was doubting him?

You'd be surprised. My main point with this thread is that Lebron's "clutchness" is often overlooked because it doesn't come in the form of a buzzer beater. Lebron tends to take over a game mid-way through the 4th and ensure the game never comes to a last shot. In the minds of Kobe fans, this means Kobe is better.

[kobefanatic]

u dont think kobe was the one behind this trade? u gotta be realistic about it. y in the world would the lakers want to trade him unless kobe wanted it done? y do u think they put the lakers vs the heat on christmas the next couple years after the trade? y did we constantly hear about kobe winning with his own team, his own legacy?

the owners and GM has to approve it for the trade to even happen, so what if kobe wants to get that trade done? the lakers choose to side with him and trade shaq, even kobe is behind all the trade demands, the FO has to approve it

[superjeff24]

wtf happened here- they were up 9 with 30 sec left- wow they didnt cover holy

yeah that was pretty lame. especially the retarded 3 point play. who fouls when you're up that much with under 30 secs left?

[williams22]

the owners and GM has to approve it for the trade to even happen, so what if kobe wants to get that trade done? the lakers choose to side with him and trade shaq, even kobe is behind all the trade demands, the FO has to approve it

I don't see your point? It's still Kobe's doing. He forced them to trade Shaq. No chance in hell the Lakers decide to trade Shaq without Kobe's urging.

[kobefanatic]

Of course it wasn't in the media, people only go crazy over Lebron stories.

Here's your hero: http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/chri...ot_pout_the_mo

Yes, Kobe gets the blame for being a selfish prick. Shaq still had enough in the tank for another championship or two (hell, he did it with Wade instead). Yeah Kobe couldn't put winning above his childish need for attention.

shaq didn't win the 1st year he went to th\e heat, he needed to have a better team jason williams, posey, walker, old mourning and payton to win it in the 2nd year he's in the heat

[williams22]

shaq didn't win the 1st year he went to th\e heat, he needed to have a better team jason williams, posey, walker, old mourning and payton to win it in the 2nd year he's in the heat

Oh wait! So you are saying in his second year away from the Lakers he still had enough in his tank to win a championship? Couldn't the Lakers have won both of those years if they kept Shaq? That's two potential championships that Kobe is to blame for losing.

[kobefanatic]

I don't see your point? It's still Kobe's doing. He forced them to trade Shaq. No chance in hell the Lakers decide to trade Shaq without Kobe's urging.

but the FO still has to decide who will they take side with right? those 2 just can't co exist with one another, both want the spotlight both want the attention so both has fault

[superjeff24]

but yeah, lebron is better than bryant. I'd love to see the two match up in the playoffs. maybe at least then kobe would play the whole game out of pride

[kobefanatic]

Oh wait! So you are saying in his second year away from the Lakers he still had enough in his tank to win a championship? Couldn't the Lakers have won both of those years if they kept Shaq? That's two potential championships that Kobe is to blame for losing.

they can't co exist anymore so they won't win anything even if they stuck together, besides they don't have a good roster anymore even if they stuck together in those 2 years, i think malone is 40 and payton also near the twilight of his career, and the bench back then was already weak, keeping those 2 superstars eats half of the payroll so they cn't sign any good players to load their roster

[williams22]

but the FO still has to decide who will they take side with right? those 2 just can't co exist with one another, both want the spotlight both want the attention so both has fault

Sure, the front office shares some blame, who cares? The moral is Kobe cost his team 2 or more championships. You still haven't responded to the article I posted above.

[jsmithj88]

the owners and GM has to approve it for the trade to even happen, so what if kobe wants to get that trade done? the lakers choose to side with him and trade shaq, even kobe is behind all the trade demands, the FO has to approve it

so u backtracked on ur statements earlier but u are now putting blame on the GM.
are u being objective here or are u just PRO kobe no matter waht?

[williams22]

so u backtracked on ur statements earlier but u are now putting blame on the GM.
are u being objective here or are u just PRO kobe no matter waht?

I'll give him credit though, it's a difficult position to be in having to defend a person as selfish, petty, and childish as Kobe.

[kobefanatic]

Sure, the front office shares some blame, who cares? The moral is Kobe cost his team 2 or more championships. You still haven't responded to the article I posted above.

it was only 1 game, watch game 6 of that series kobe scored 50 and took the game to OT, he scores a couple of baskets and passed the ball to his teammates that chuck up shots which cost them the game, look at the body language of smush parker during that game and the rest

if they stuck together they won't win anymore championships with those 2 on that team, it's half the cap space, malone and payton were about to retire and their bench is already weak

[kobefanatic]

so u backtracked on ur statements earlier but u are now putting blame on the GM.
are u being objective here or are u just PRO kobe no matter waht?

no it's not blaming the FO, both those 2 can't co exist so it's up to the FO to decide who will they side with

[kobefanatic]

be back in a few hours

[superjeff24]

it was only 1 game, watch game 6 of that series kobe scored 50 and took the game to OT, he scores a couple of baskets and passed the ball to his teammates that chuck up shots which cost them the game, look at the body language of smush parker during that game and the rest

if they stuck together they won't win anymore championships with those 2 on that team, it's half the cap space, malone and payton were about to retire and their bench is already weak

you say it was only 1 game. IT WAS GAME 7. IT WAS A BEST OF 1. WHO CARES ABOUT GAME 6, IF HE PUTS UP 160 POINTS, AND THEN LAYS DOWN IN GAME 7, GAME 6 DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING!

[williams22]

it was only 1 game, watch game 6 of that series kobe scored 50 and took the game to OT, he scores a couple of baskets and passed the ball to his teammates that chuck up shots which cost them the game, look at the body language of smush parker during that game and the rest if they stuck together they won't win anymore championships with those 2 on that team, it's half the cap space, malone and payton were about to retire and their bench is already weak

IT'S ONLY ONE GAME!!! You can't be serious. You are defending a guy who quit on his team? Bad enough to do it at all, but game 7 of the playoffs!!!??? He's a selfish prick.

I give up, you cannot be reasoned with.

[jsmithj88]

lets keep it in perspective.
if kobe went to the GM and said i hate shaq but dont trade him do u think the GM would have traded him?
nope. there is no way in hell shaq is trraded unless kobe wanted it done

if MJ wanted pippen traded from the bulls, u can be dam sure pippen would be gone, hahaha
dont u think lebron had a big say on whether amare or jamison was coming to the cavs?

it took miami 2 years to win a title with shaq. y couldnt they have done the same if shaq stayed with the lakers?

[kobefanatic]

lets keep it in perspective.
if kobe went to the GM and said i hate shaq but dont trade him do u think the GM would have traded him?
nope. there is no way in hell shaq is trraded unless kobe wanted it done

if MJ wanted pippen traded from the bulls, u can be dam sure pippen would be gone, hahaha
dont u think lebron had a big say on whether amare or jamison was coming to the cavs?

it took miami 2 years to win a title with shaq. y couldnt they have done the same if shaq stayed with the lakers?

do you actually believe the lakers' roster that time will be able to win another championship had they stayed together?
PG payton almost end of his career
SG kobe
SF george
PF malone may not be around anymore the following season
C shaq
bench
brian cook,
derek fisher,
rick fox,
horace grant
stanislav medvedenko,
jannero pargo,
kareem rush,
bryon russell,
jamal sampson,
luke walton
these are the bench players in that final season they've been together, do you actually think with these players they could win another chip if they stayed beyond that season? they won't have any cap space to sign players that can actually help, kobe got his new contract that year, they may only use their MLE back then so they could get a FA at most that can help

[Doc JS]

Are you new to basketball? Go look up Lebron's postseason numbers last year and let me know what you find.

I say again, buzzer beaters are OVERRATED. If you can close out a game before that, you'll never need the buzzer beater.

I found that he lost to Orlando and walked off the court without congratulating the Magic...

Look, no one is denying that Lebron is a great player...but get back to me when he's won something, OK???

Doc

[williams22]

I found that he lost to Orlando and walked off the court without congratulating the Magic...

Look, no one is denying that Lebron is a great player...but get back to me when he's won something, OK???

Doc

I expect you criticized Kobe from '05-'08 when he sucked it up too? If the no handshake was the biggest thing you took away from last year's playoffs you should stop watching basketball.

[MJFtheGenius]

Lebron lacks the mental toughness Kobe has...

I think Lebron will get that toughness to him one day but we have not seen it yet

[williams22]

Lebron lacks the mental toughness Kobe has...

I think Lebron will get that toughness to him one day but we have not seen it yet

Did you watch the Christmas Day Crushing the Cavs and Lebron issued on Kobe and Lakers? Beat them mentally and physically on every level.

[MJFtheGenius]

Did you watch the Christmas Day Crushing the Cavs and Lebron issued on Kobe and Lakers? Beat them mentally and physically on every level.

Yes I did watch the regular season game. So what??

[williams22]

Yes I did watch the regular season game. So what??

Ha, I love how everyone here thinks the regular season is an excuse for everything. Sure, Kobe may not put in 100% effort in the regular season, but he should still have his mental toughness right? Lebron destroyed him and turned Kobe into a whining baby (well, more so than he already was).

[MJFtheGenius]

ha ? ha? thats your response?? get a clue man your perception is mind boggling that because Lebrons team smoked Kobes team in a regular season game tells the entire tale? who cares? When Lebron wins 1 title maybe you can talk then. By the way Lebron almost cost his team the game last night too. He had atleast 3 turnovers in that final stretch. Yea I said it..your boy turning the ball over in crucial stages of the game. They won the game because the hawks went like 5 minutes without scoring a single point not because of Lebrons mental toughness

[williams22]

ha ? ha? thats your response?? get a clue man your perception is mind boggling that because Lebrons team smoked Kobes team in a regular season game tells the entire tale? who cares? When Lebron wins 1 title maybe you can talk then. By the way Lebron almost cost his team the game last night too. He had atleast 3 turnovers in that final stretch. Yea I said it..your boy turning the ball over in crucial stages of the game. They won the game because the hawks went like 5 minutes without scoring a single point not because of Lebrons mental toughness

Now you're just being stupid. Go watch the game again. Lebron checked into the game with the game tied and quickly took them to a 8-10 point lead. He also had a huge steal that turned into a breakaway dunk to put the game out of reach.

Where was Kobe's mental toughness in his years after Shaq and before Pau? How about game 7 of the Suns series that he threw? Really mentally tough there.

If you watched the Christmas day game you would have seen how Lebron led his team and kept them focused all game long while Kobe let his team fall apart and added to the problem with his complaining. The fans then took his lead and started throwing things...classy. Kobe is a prick.