Hope you got to take a look at the video's of Caldera.... He looks like the real deal... training like the real deal... But needs to show it in a race and the luck to go his way....But am I excited??? Heck yeah!! I remember this quote from an announcer as they were leading up to the Kentucky Derby" Hope springs eternal"
-
Comment -
Your son of Not This Time now has a rider on his back at Wavertree Stables which is the final stage of the breaking process in his stall. He handled the rider very well for the first time. Our next update will be similar to what you are watching above but the gentleman leading your colt will be removed from the picture and Stylishly ’23 will take all the commands from his rider. After that, he will move to the shed row, followed by the round pen before moving out to an open paddock.https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...8066623084.mp4[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Rider's Up (Phase Four)[/COLOR]
Comment -
thanks and glad you made some money..I'm not so sure that FJ couldn't go with SNC..he ran less than 2 ticks off the track record while your's was about 8 ticks although santa anita has that ridiculous sub 1:07 track record .. both won vs g2 company..they're certainly not going to do each other any favors in the pace scenario and sure they'll be some other good speed going ..a race I look forward to watching on bc dayComment -
I didn't see any restrictions in the conditions..I guess if you let them run at 6 why not 7 lol..off the top I think "when" there are restrictions it starts at 6 but not sure
Keystone closed 40 years ago so she was really young at that time ..wasn't aware she started on the maryland circuit ..cool when you ride a jock early in their career and they go on to become something big ..I know you did with quite a few of them
.Comment -
it does say it now and checked a couple of tracks
CT 6yo
LRL 5y
NJ none
nice
are you on the left in the beige jacket ?Comment -
No that’s not me.
I had horses in at Bowie also that day so I stayed there. I sent my asst. trainer in the black hat, Julie, the groom, the exercise rider and the owner in the mink coat was there . Not sure who that guy on the end is.
Win or go to the farm. No pressure. Lol.
That was a good day.Last edited by str; 10-05-24, 08:59 AM.Comment -
I wanted to answer a bunch more posts but I lost my computer to my grandson for most of the day it looks like.
I’ll try and do it tomorrow morning .
The phone is tough for more than a quick answer for me. I’m pathetic. Lol.Comment -
here are the race times
baq
#5 deterministic (9-2)
R5 .. jockey club derby
invitational not graded
1 3/8 miles turf
@ 2:13
#10 chancer mcpatrick (6-5)
R8 .. champagne stakes g1
1 mile dirt
@ 3:49
.Last edited by JBEX; 10-05-24, 09:24 AM.Comment -
Awesome.
appreciate that.
I’m meeting an old co worker when I was with Dickie in 75. Haven’t seen him since but he found this thread and reached out. Unreal. We’re talking 49 years. Not sure if we will recognize one another. It will be Two old guy’s wandering around. What could go wrong. Lol.
So I’ll be there from about 1-3. I’ll catch Deterministic there. I’ll be back home for ** P.
Thanks JBEX.Comment -
Deterministic
#6 El Rezeen English Channel/ Kittens Joy. Add Plet/Ortiz. Boy that's a lot of pedigree on all accounts.Comment -
BEL R3 Equivoque
Here's one to watch. Off 500+ days. Highly thought of past. Interesting 1st back.Comment -
[/COLOR]
Your son of Not This Time now has a rider on his back at Wavertree Stables which is the final stage of the breaking process in his stall. He handled the rider very well for the first time. Our next update will be similar to what you are watching above but the gentleman leading your colt will be removed from the picture and Stylishly ’23 will take all the commands from his rider. After that, he will move to the shed row, followed by the round pen before moving out to an open paddock.https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...8066623084.mp4
Skeptical, but willing to trust it. Very cool.
One thing to note. I know never is a strong word, but, I was never around, either training or as an asst. a horse that has those grey hairs at the very top of the tail bone, that did not out run his or her pedigree. Everyone of them were overachievers from what they were actually bred to be worth. A sample size of maybe 20 horses.
Let's mark that down and see if it happens here.Comment -
an army mule and liam's map breaking side by side at baq R1..BOTH claimed in their last starts by linda and rudy
#5 bella voce (5-1) LM( linda)
#6 pam pam (7-2) AM (rudy)
I'd go 2 ex box and 1 win each as a hedge ..want a shot at exacta here..neutral opinion w/o the rooting interest
.Comment -
Deterministic : IMO. I thought he ran real well overall. Was it perfect? No, but what is? The slow early pace and lack of speed in it put him towards the leader early. He got a bit aggressive with that early but that was to be expected knowing his history. Then, a horse came up outside of him down the backside. He focused on that for about 10 seconds instead of doing his job, so he lost a bit of composure there. But again, he cleaned that up within 10-15 seconds.
From that point, he ran really well I thought. Winner had a clean trip and he lost focus twice and was pinned and had to work through traffic. All in all, I give it a solid A grade. Mainly because he had two or three opportunities to blow it. Something he had done more than once a few months back. But he didn't. He kept coming back to what he has learned.
Let him turn 4 years old and if he continues to get mentally stronger, he should have a real nice year next year.
Sometimes when you get beat, you hope that there are things to be ok with in the effort. In this case, there was a lot to be really ok with. All in all I would be very pleased with all that I saw. He should only get better next year JBEX. Much more in that race to like than to not like IMO.
Chancer : I will call him that because the computer keeps thinking I'm talking about a credit card and putting ** in his name.
No surprise with his race. He is just much better. Pretty obvious from his 1st start as we discussed. But I have to find something to need to work on so... IMO, I think he needs to be careful with dropping back every race even though the pace is slower. He broke great yesterday. But he dropped back to last several lengths behind the back of the field. Yes, he can catch up. But... if this becomes the norm and as the horses get better, especially the speed and position horses, and we go two turns and the field gets bigger, which they will, he could easily get beat by factors within the running of the race. Things that are out of his control. What you do not want, IMO, is a Sierra Leone thing to work itself into play. Sierra is , at this point, totally reliant on early pace to help him. With that and the lugging in, he is no longer that best horse necessarily because he is at the mercy of the pace AND his trip. It negates his ability in my mind. But like I said, as a coach, or a trainer, there is always something to clean up and work on.
Of course two turns will answer many more questions next month.
Chancer, again, IMO, can just as easily lay mid pack ish, or even further back, but I don't really get beating the gate and in an 1/8th of a mile be 5 lengths behind the back of the pack. That can come back to bite him in the butt as the quality improves on the front end.Comment -
This looks like one of those races where many of the trainers all decided at the same time to drop into a soft winning spot. But, with everyone doing it, it becomes a solid spot and not at all soft.
The Liams Map horses are real solid as we know but for me, I think I would find it difficult to bet very often against an Army Mule. There was an old saying on the track 100 years ago that a certain game horse was" gamer than Dick Tracy". That is what I think of when I see Army Mule.Comment -
Chancer : I will call him that because the computer keeps thinking I'm talking about a credit card and putting ** in his name.
No surprise with his race. He is just much better. Pretty obvious from his 1st start as we discussed. But I have to find something to need to work on so... IMO, I think he needs to be careful with dropping back every race even though the pace is slower. He broke great yesterday. But he dropped back to last several lengths behind the back of the field. Yes, he can catch up. But... if this becomes the norm and as the horses get better, especially the speed and position horses, and we go two turns and the field gets bigger, which they will, he could easily get beat by factors within the running of the race. Things that are out of his control. What you do not want, IMO, is a Sierra Leone thing to work itself into play. Sierra is , at this point, totally reliant on early pace to help him. With that and the lugging in, he is no longer that best horse necessarily because he is at the mercy of the pace AND his trip. It negates his ability in my mind. But like I said, as a coach, or a trainer, there is always something to clean up and work on.
Of course two turns will answer many more questions next month.
Chancer, again, IMO, can just as easily lay mid pack ish, or even further back, but I don't really get beating the gate and in an 1/8th of a mile be 5 lengths behind the back of the pack. That can come back to bite him in the butt as the quality improves on the front end.
A Follow up to this post.
As a follow up, you could tell that Chancer had spent more than a couple of mornings at the gate, practicing to be better there. It really showed as he broke what looked like on top for an instant.
This horse is super smart it looks like. Extremely mature mentally for a baby.Last edited by str; 10-06-24, 10:43 AM.Comment -
great feedback on the races str ! going to watch replays again tomorrow and sure I'll have a question or two ..overall was very impressed with both effortsComment -
agree the falling back early with chancer is a bit worrisome and hopefully chad can help him with that .. have a hunch that might not be so easy to do .. maybe part of the reason he passes horses so easily on the turn is he expends less energy in the early part of the race..will likely cost him some wins down the road if it can't be corrected but skies the limit if it can..
with deterministic believe having to go inside coming into the stretch cost him some momentum .. thought i "might" have seen an extra lead switch coming for home when they passed the chute ..maybe no rail inside of him for that brief time caused him to do that ..was impressed with how much horse he seemed to have at the end in spite of all this..I feel his best shot is as good or better than carsons's runs if they both get ideal trips
I agree that with all these experiences in him he has a shot to be a top horse next year ..think with what he did in this race they will have to give the breeders cup turf a go..if he can work out a good trip I feel ,even now, that he has a shot against older horses at a marathon distance
on a lesser scale I think Rudy's army mule (pam pam) will get through the two non-winner conditions and wind up being a good claim .. bet it's the kind of horse you would've liked to work with back in your days as a trainer..a young horse by a sire you like who could possibly raise his game to another level with some attention to detailComment -
Expending less energy early will always give you more later, and I am fine with that. But, when they start to go 2 turns, other things come into play. And with more pace to scrutinize, problems for those in the rear can be real.
They are going to go 22-45 or faster in the sprints. It's an auto setup for him. But going long, the chance for 25-49 can really work against Chancer. And he has no control over that.
In a perfect world, I think Chancer laying 5th or 6th , like mid pack to even a little behind mid pack would be fine. But if he drops back to last no matter the pace, that's a problem as you know. I am not thinking it has to be that way, but if that is where this is headed, he will ultimately lose to an inferior horse at some point. I guess that is what I would be concerned about.
Deterministic: I watched the race again and go back and watch the break and the first 10 seconds. The rider losses his iron again, leaving the gate That's twice this year ! Crazy. He bounces up and down on the horse and gets his foot back in on the 2nd attempt. THAT is what caused Deterministic to be aggressive so early, albeit for about 20-30 seconds.
thought i "might" have seen an extra lead switch coming for home when they passed the chute
.maybe no rail inside of him for that brief time caused him to do that
Great eye ! Wasn't going to mention that mainly because it happens a lot when the rail goes away passing chutes like that and didn't want to confuse anyone. It was only for 2 striders and he went back to the right but absolutely, he did that. Very nice catch JBEX.
And Rudy's Army Mule. Yes, he will run his butt off every time they run him.
And you are spot on with loving to train those types of trying horses. I had plenty of them and many were worth less than 10k. But a heart of gold. I admired them so much and it was a true pleasure to work this those. The ability did not matter. The heart and guts did. And I loved that about the game. Those types were special JBEX. Couldn't wait to get to the barn in the morning to be around them and watch them train. Going in the stall with certain horses was like seeing a real close friend sometimes. All they did was wake up and give you all they had everyday. How can you NOT love that. Heart squeeze.Comment -
so going far might help him a bit just because of the slower fractions ..certainly that's where he's heading so might be partly self corrected just by doing that..good news unless what he does is relative to field positioning vs fractions..be interesting to see if he can improve with this
wow came out of the stirrups again ..pretty bad luck having that happen twice in such a short period of time..probably would have been totally different positioning without that ..good catch and another reason to upgrade the performance
like what you said about horses who give it there all..whatever level that is it's admirable all you can ask of themComment -
Thursday
kee R9
@ 5:16
#2 world record (6-5)
perfect spot..speed of speed ,drops in class and cuts back a furlong..will be an underlay so not advocating a betComment -
And Rudy's Army Mule. Yes, he will run his butt off every time they run him.
And you are spot on with loving to train those types of trying horses. I had plenty of them and many were worth less than 10k. But a heart of gold. I admired them so much and it was a true pleasure to work this those. The ability did not matter. The heart and guts did. And I loved that about the game. Those types were special JBEX. Couldn't wait to get to the barn in the morning to be around them and watch them train. Going in the stall with certain horses was like seeing a real close friend sometimes. All they did was wake up and give you all they had everyday. How can you NOT love that. Heart squeeze.
Comment -
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Rider’s Up (Part Two)
[/COLOR]
Following last week’s update, enjoy part two of our rider’s up update. This will be the final step before your son of Not This Time gets to experience more space outside of his stall during his training.
Comment -
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Update
[/COLOR]
Our team had a chance to check in on Caldera this morning at Churchill Downs. Please enjoy the accompanying video. He looks good and seems to be tucking up as he gets closer to being race fit.
Note that the plan is to wait to debut him during the Churchill Downs Fall Meet (begins Oct. 27) rather than ship to Keeneland. There's really no rush to send him out there sooner than that, and being able to run out of his own stall and over a surface he's clearly handling well is preferred
Comment -
Watch his mannerisms as he goes counter clockwise in the beginning. When he goes the other direction, watch the ears and eyes. 1st two turns he has the same apprehension. Third turn and from then on, he is fine with the new routine.[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Rider’s Up (Part Two)
[/COLOR]
Following last week’s update, enjoy part two of our rider’s up update. This will be the final step before your son of Not This Time gets to experience more space outside of his stall during his training.
I think he is starting to enjoy the learning process.
Fun stuff for me Batt.Comment -
His feet have straw on them because he has mud in his feet. Mud is a type of poultice that helps soften the foot so it is not brittle and flaky. It also pulls excessive heat from the foot like when your dogs are barkin from walking or running too much.[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Update
[/COLOR]
Our team had a chance to check in on Caldera this morning at Churchill Downs. Please enjoy the accompanying video. He looks good and seems to be tucking up as he gets closer to being race fit.
Note that the plan is to wait to debut him during the Churchill Downs Fall Meet (begins Oct. 27) rather than ship to Keeneland. There's really no rush to send him out there sooner than that, and being able to run out of his own stall and over a surface he's clearly handling well is preferred
The red stuff on the clean bandages is red pepper so he won't want to chew them off. That's nasty and if you get a spec in your eye, oh My ! Hurts like crazy.
Batt knows this stuff but for those that don't, I thought I would explain.Comment
Reply