Horse Racing questions and answers

[Easy-Rider 66]

I know American Pharoah was defeated here but the fact that he put away Frosted shows greatness IMO. Was it drug induced? Who Knows?

[Easy-Rider 66]

One more thing. Horses that show no quit show greatness. I hate when I have a speed horse take the lead and then give up the ghost so to speak without much fight.

[JBEX]

hey str

R4 @ laurel yesterday finished with the two co -favorites far ahead 1st and 2nd .. john salzman who you know was one of the trainers ..check out the stats with 2nd time lasix of both especially salzman (the winner and still perfect)..Have to think there's some skill involved to put a horse in a position to take advantage of that situation

[str]

hey str

R4 @ laurel yesterday finished with the two co -favorites far ahead 1st and 2nd .. john salzman who you know was one of the trainers ..check out the stats with 2nd time lasix of both especially salzman (the winner and still perfect)..Have to think there's some skill involved to put a horse in a position to take advantage of that situation

Yes. There is plenty of skill involved. In Salzman's case, he rarely has an older horse running. Almost all his horses are babies, homebred's or something like that. He typically but certainly not always, has claimers that he spots well. Bottom line, he wants to win .In this case he might have gotten a bit lucky to win 2nd lasix but only because the horse stumbled so badly last time as 1st lasix. My comment to myself looking at the race was that he would be rock solid in that setup and was probably best.
Kenny Cox who was 2nd, also with a high% 2nd lasix but not undefeated, lol, also makes sense. Most of Kenny's babies are going to be claimers. Not all, but I think it's fair to say most. He gives horses every chance to excel early but when he has had enough, he will also spot to win. Not sure about 2nd time lasix with Kenny. Again though, he gives them every chance to be decent but when he is tired of it, he lays them in. Maybe that is what creates the 2nd lasix thing? I think the 0% 1st time blks. is too small a sample because that is just not him at all.
Dropping from 25 to 10k was the right move and the horse needed that. Not sure about the name but no question Kenny was born and raised basically at Bowie. I trained for a school principle back in the day and Kenny was one of his students not far from Bowie. He was a lifer there until they closed it so the name has something to do with the city or track or both no doubt.
Looks like the blks. on made that horse just run off. If the horse relaxes just a little it probably wins but at least the horse competed, which they needed to happen. Open those cups up a bit or put some peep holes in them if they are not there and the horse will relax more next out. Kenny knows that. ( I can't stop training. Lol).

Thanks for the Md. race to look at. Always nice to see old acquaintances do well.

Both trainers are skillful at running them where they belong but Salzman is a real pro at winning early with babies. No surprise at all he won. Nice to see the owner Bird, win as well. She was Jack and Gretchen's only daughter. They were a permanent fixture in Md. racing the entire time I was there. Was always in the barn next door to them for the Pimlico meet. Good people that always had homebreds.

[JBEX]

Yes. There is plenty of skill involved. In Salzman's case, he rarely has an older horse running. Almost all his horses are babies, homebred's or something like that. He typically but certainly not always, has claimers that he spots well. Bottom line, he wants to win .In this case he might have gotten a bit lucky to win 2nd lasix but only because the horse stumbled so badly last time as 1st lasix. My comment to myself looking at the race was that he would be rock solid in that setup and was probably best.
Kenny Cox who was 2nd, also with a high% 2nd lasix but not undefeated, lol, also makes sense. Most of Kenny's babies are going to be claimers. Not all, but I think it's fair to say most. He gives horses every chance to excel early but when he has had enough, he will also spot to win. Not sure about 2nd time lasix with Kenny. Again though, he gives them every chance to be decent but when he is tired of it, he lays them in. Maybe that is what creates the 2nd lasix thing? I think the 0% 1st time blks. is too small a sample because that is just not him at all.
Dropping from 25 to 10k was the right move and the horse needed that. Not sure about the name but no question Kenny was born and raised basically at Bowie. I trained for a school principle back in the day and Kenny was one of his students not far from Bowie. He was a lifer there until they closed it so the name has something to do with the city or track or both no doubt.
Looks like the blks. on made that horse just run off. If the horse relaxes just a little it probably wins but at least the horse competed, which they needed to happen. Open those cups up a bit or put some peep holes in them if they are not there and the horse will relax more next out. Kenny knows that. ( I can't stop training. Lol).

Thanks for the Md. race to look at. Always nice to see old acquaintances do well.

Both trainers are skillful at running them where they belong but Salzman is a real pro at winning early with babies. No surprise at all he won. Nice to see the owner Bird, win as well. She was Jack and Gretchen's only daughter. They were a permanent fixture in Md. racing the entire time I was there. Was always in the barn next door to them for the Pimlico meet. Good people that always had homebreds.

yeah I know you've mentioned babies are a mainstay with salzman..I agree last race was big effort and would make him tough vs these if repeated..as you said possibly 2nd lasix may have had little to do with jt..still am amazing stat to me though


I find it more interesting the game played on this level..modest pedigree homebred who ends up winning around where he's supposed..if he's good possibly at higher level mcl and occasionally vs msw..enjoy and feel a bigger edge doing these types of races (not just bottom but higher level mcl's) and regular claimers also..take a big field of these types over a 6 horse stakes field anytime


funny on a name basis going back a long way and being from NY I definitely remember you and salzman but not cox's name..miss the days standing around a smokey otb ,playing an AD exacta box and gathering around a speaker to here marshall cassidy calling a close stretch battle between cordero and jacinto vasquez ..thats if I didn't get kicked out for being too young lol


anyway appreciate the feedback and know you like the opportunity to look at races from maryland ..glad to oblige

[str]

yeah I know you've mentioned babies are a mainstay with salzman..I agree last race was big effort and would make him tough vs these if repeated..as you said possibly 2nd lasix may have had little to do with jt..still am amazing stat to me though


I find it more interesting the game played on this level..modest pedigree homebred who ends up winning around where he's supposed..if he's good possibly at higher level mcl and occasionally vs msw..enjoy and feel a bigger edge doing these types of races (not just bottom but higher level mcl's) and regular claimers also..take a big field of these types over a 6 horse stakes field anytime


funny on a name basis going back a long way and being from NY I definitely remember you and salzman but not cox's name..miss the days standing around a smokey otb ,playing an AD exacta box and gathering around a speaker to here marshall cassidy calling a close stretch battle between cordero and jacinto vasquez ..thats if I didn't get kicked out for being too young lol


anyway appreciate the feedback and know you like the opportunity to look at races from maryland ..glad to oblige

Kenny Cox is younger than John and me. Not sure when he started on his own put probably late 80's early 90's.

[JBEX]

Kenny Cox is younger than John and me. Not sure when he started on his own put probably late 80's early 90's.

ok that might explain part of it..think simulcasting out of town tracks was a mid to late 80's thing anyway so not sure that would've mattered if he was late 80's ..early 90's start might have made the difference in notoriety though

[str]

One more thing. Horses that show no quit show greatness. I hate when I have a speed horse take the lead and then give up the ghost so to speak without much fight.

Totally agree with this.

It is why Seattle Slew was so Great.

His races against Affirmed were incredible.

Even if he lost, with crazy early fractions and dueling Affirmed in the 78 Jockey Club Gold Cup at a mile and a half, his heart and determination were top notch.

Simply great !

Watch that race .

[Easy-Rider 66]

[Easy-Rider 66]

thx STR: was not aware of that race. good point about a Great horse not quitting when he had every right to do so.

[str]

thx STR: was not aware of that race. good point about a Great horse not quitting when he had every right to do so.

22/45/109 three way duel , one being a top 50 all time horse , going a mile and a half and comes again to get beat a nose.

Absolute Greatness.

[Easy-Rider 66]

22/45/109 three way duel , one being a top 50 all time horse , going a mile and a half and comes again to get beat a nose.

Absolute Greatness.

[JBEX]

hey str

aqu R1

#5 bointheback (6-1)

little history here..i asked you for an opinion and you explained the name ..since that time was claimed from anthony dutrow

think this is a nice spot for him today .. distance,class and will get a fast track today ..below avg trainer jock combo might bring halfway decent price

any opinion on him or the race in general ?

[str]

hey str

aqu R1

#5 bointheback (6-1)

little history here..i asked you for an opinion and you explained the name ..since that time was claimed from anthony dutrow

think this is a nice spot for him today .. distance,class and will get a fast track today ..below avg trainer jock combo might bring halfway decent price

any opinion on him or the race in general ?

Seems to fit well in that race. Some slow horses in there.
GL if you play.
A hurried response because of the time.

[JBEX]

Seems to fit well in that race. Some slow horses in there.
GL if you play.
A hurried response because of the time.

looks like losing him for $40k a few starts back might not have been such a bad thing ...bo will probably be in the back for a while unless he ships out of town lol

[str]

looks like losing him for $40k a few starts back might not have been such a bad thing ...bo will probably be in the back for a while unless he ships out of town lol

This horse has really tailed off. At this point I would have to guess physically which can lead to mentally pretty quickly.

Even half the efforts he showed early on would have won that race yesterday.

[JBEX]

This horse has really tailed off. At this point I would have to guess physically which can lead to mentally pretty quickly.

Even half the efforts he showed early on would have won that race yesterday.

I really thought on paper this was a good spot..6f ,right level..maybe 9 days was too soon..trainer is just horrendous ,factoring roi, with maiden claimers over a pretty good sample .. that almost was enough to scare me away but thought the goods outweighed the bads

[JBEX]

thought you would like this.. letter to the editor of the paulick report from walter blum.. before my time of being a fan but knew of him

https://paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/letter-to-the-editor-hall-of-fame-jockey-walter-blum-disillusioned-by-drug-scandals-repeat-offenders/

[str]

thought you would like this.. letter to the editor of the paulick report from walter blum.. before my time of being a fan but knew of him
https://paulickreport.com/news/ray-s...eat-offenders/

I never had the pleasure to cross paths with Mr. Blum. His career as a rider ended just before mine as a trainer began. But one of my best friends then, Bobby Umphrey, who was later the racing secretary in Florida said nothing but GREAT things about him during his days with Mr. Blum. That was good enough for me.

People like Mr. Blum are those old school gentleman who had a great respect for the game, it's rules, and how to play it.

John Rotz was a similar older jockey. They were both great and rode in the same timeframe. I did know Mr. Rotz from his Delaware Park Steward days. Awesome to have a chance to talk with such old school racing royalty. The incredible respect they have for the game is something we sadly see less and less of in todays world, especially with the current clown show that seems to grab a lot of attention these days.

Getting off track for a minute, I saw that Mr. Rotz passed away last July 12th. That was a real tough day for my family with my son getting so badly injured (doing much better these days incredibly), which is why I guess I missed that. I would have written something about him if I had been aware and thinking clearly. My brief time with him meant so much to me at the ripe old age of 21-22 years old. I'll never forget that.

It was people like Mr. Blum from what Bobby said, and like Mr. Rotz, or Gentleman John as he was dubbed, that made the game as sacred and great as I felt it was. People like both of these men as well as many others are those responsible for showing younger participants how important it was and is, to respect the game , if for no other reason than to honor those great people and horses that crossed the same finish line back then that we tried to cross first everyday.

There is no question that Mr. Blum was and is a voice to listen to when it comes to racing. I completely understand why he feels
disillusioned with what is going on these days. Anyone that played the game fairly, respected the game and what it was, and had a passion to succeed has to feel that way. The press conferences with lawyers representing violators and all the legal BS that goes with it is ruining the game. People going to jail and the current rulings and appeals and the coverage given to those that have clearly broken the rules makes me sick. I honestly cannot imagine how someone like Mr. Blum would feel. It must make him so sad to see where all this has gone.

Thanks for sharing JBEX.

And thanks for indulging me with the story of Mr. Rotz.

I really appreciate it.

[JBEX]

I never had the pleasure to cross paths with Mr. Blum. His career as a rider ended just before mine as a trainer began. But one of my best friends then, Bobby Umphrey, who was later the racing secretary in Florida said nothing but GREAT things about him during his days with Mr. Blum. That was good enough for me.

People like Mr. Blum are those old school gentleman who had a great respect for the game, it's rules, and how to play it.

John Rotz was a similar older jockey. They were both great and rode in the same timeframe. I did know Mr. Rotz from his Delaware Park Steward days. Awesome to have a chance to talk with such old school racing royalty. The incredible respect they have for the game is something we sadly see less and less of in todays world, especially with the current clown show that seems to grab a lot of attention these days.

Getting off track for a minute, I saw that Mr. Rotz passed away last July 12th. That was a real tough day for my family with my son getting so badly injured (doing much better these days incredibly), which is why I guess I missed that. I would have written something about him if I had been aware and thinking clearly. My brief time with him meant so much to me at the ripe old age of 21-22 years old. I'll never forget that.

It was people like Mr. Blum from what Bobby said, and like Mr. Rotz, or Gentleman John as he was dubbed, that made the game as sacred and great as I felt it was. People like both of these men as well as many others are those responsible for showing younger participants how important it was and is, to respect the game , if for no other reason than to honor those great people and horses that crossed the same finish line back then that we tried to cross first everyday.

There is no question that Mr. Blum was and is a voice to listen to when it comes to racing. I completely understand why he feels
disillusioned with what is going on these days. Anyone that played the game fairly, respected the game and what it was, and had a passion to succeed has to feel that way. The press conferences with lawyers representing violators and all the legal BS that goes with it is ruining the game. People going to jail and the current rulings and appeals and the coverage given to those that have clearly broken the rules makes me sick. I honestly cannot imagine how someone like Mr. Blum would feel. It must make him so sad to see where all this has gone.

Thanks for sharing JBEX.

And thanks for indulging me with the story of Mr. Rotz.

I really appreciate it.

very well said str and had a hunch your response would be along those lines.. seems like they were a couple of old school jocks who had a great respect for the game.. I'm sure ,by what you said, mr rotz would have felt the same as mr blum..nice that he had an outlet to express his opinion on the current chaotic state of racing

glad to give you an opportunity to mention him and very happy your son is doing better


below is from a march 1964 article in sports illustrated about "gentleman john"..didn't get through the whole thing but liked what I did read

https://vault.si.com/.amp/vault/1964/03/23/a-touch-of-gold-in-the-saddle

[Louisvillekid1]

Cheers str and J

love y’all

I read you guys all the time even when im
not posting

[str]

Cheers str and J

love y’all

I read you guys all the time even when im
not posting

Thanks Kid. It’s always good to hear from you. This place will be just fine. It’s taking way to long but it will get there. I’m confident of that.

Nice to see you posting pal.
Hope all is well.
And hey man, don’t give those trolls a second thought. Life’s too short.
Be safe my friend.
All the best.

[JBEX]

Cheers str and J

love y’all

I read you guys all the time even when im
not posting

what's up kid ..glad to see you back ..hope all is well

[JBEX]

hey str

tampa R9

my 10-1 ml who went off a lukewarm favorite was out of the money..another day at the office lol..the winner paid $133 and the combination made me take a second look at the winner

two things I found interesting and wanted to see if you agree

the winner won her last race in a mcl'er on the dirt..not the lowest level but still a mcl ..that being said it was at a shortened sprint distance..she was up close to a reasonable pace and opened up close to 5 lengths in the stretch


the other thing would simply be is she's a young 3 year old..maybe they figured something out that improved her a bunch


not saying I should have had her by any means .. to me the convincing win along with her youth is intriguing at large odds .. sometimes winning (whatever the level or figure)is undervalued in the betting

what do you think?

[JBEX]

hey str

about 15 mtp to post but figure I'd mention ..john salzman with a 2nd time time lasix going mile to 6f..
like him


laurel R1 #8 no more mask (6-1 ml 5-1 current)

[JBEX]

hey str

about 15 mtp to post but figure I'd mention ..john salzman with a 2nd time time lasix going mile to 6f..
like him






laurel R1 #8 no more mask (6-1 ml 5-1 current)

actually was 6.5f ..guy is just unbelievable with that move (2nd lasix)..$10.60 winner

[str]

actually was 6.5f ..guy is just unbelievable with that move (2nd lasix)..$10.60 winner

Natural speed turning back, 2nd lasix, the box, and Salzman with a young horse with form.

What more can you ask for !

Yeah, they are as good with babies as just about anyone.

Nice pick JBEX.

[JBEX]

Natural speed turning back, 2nd lasix, the box, and Salzman with a young horse with form.

What more can you ask for !

Yeah, they are as good with babies as just about anyone.

Nice pick JBEX.

thanks str

[JBEX]

hey str


gulfstream

R11 #4 agraffe (15-1)


thought you'd find this one interesting..homebred big pedigree including what the dam has produced as a broodmare overall and on turf..gets jose ortiz to ride after a non effort first out on the dirt (although comment "steadied into first turn")

have to think this one was intended for the turf and getting him to ride might say something about the horse..what do you think ? as usual a write-up if you can't get to it..feel free to comment on others also if you want

[str]

hey str


gulfstream

R11 #4 agraffe (15-1)


thought you'd find this one interesting..homebred big pedigree including what the dam has produced as a broodmare overall and on turf..gets jose ortiz to ride after a non effort first out on the dirt (although comment "steadied into first turn")

have to think this one was intended for the turf and getting him to ride might say something about the horse..what do you think ? as usual a write-up if you can't get to it..feel free to comment on others also if you want

This one makes sense to take a swing at. All the things you mentioned seem right to me. Sure, the race has the Chad Brown 8-5 shot . I also think Gargan's horse will be bet and show up and would not be surprised if the 1 horse runs better than expected at a price. The 3 and the 5 are solid as well.

All that said, your horse is made for turf and the trainer knows how to get young horses ready.

I always ask myself when I am trying to win with a price, " is it a shock if she wins today"? No, it isn't IMO. That means if the price is right, it is worth a play.

I mean, who is shocked when a Medaglia d'Oro wins a MSW off one dirt race, with a high % trainer and Ortiz riding, going long on the grass?

I think this is exactly how to try and dig out prices. Good luck. I like the play.

[JBEX]

This one makes sense to take a swing at. All the things you mentioned seem right to me. Sure, the race has the Chad Brown 8-5 shot . I also think Gargan's horse will be bet and show up and would not be surprised if the 1 horse runs better than expected at a price. The 3 and the 5 are solid as well.

All that said, your horse is made for turf and the trainer knows how to get young horses ready.

I always ask myself when I am trying to win with a price, " is it a shock if she wins today"? No, it isn't IMO. That means if the price is right, it is worth a play.

I mean, who is shocked when a Medaglia d'Oro wins a MSW off one dirt race, with a high % trainer and Ortiz riding, going long on the grass?

I think this is exactly how to try and dig out prices. Good luck. I like the play.

yeah I thought she might appeal to you at a price..I agree with the others you mentioned ..a very contentious race

one other thing I noticed that's kind of interesting..I picked a horse in the same kind of race yesterday who was scratched..firster by quality road out of a medaglia d'oro mare..irony of it is the same sire and dam sire won trained by the afforementioned danny gargan.. shug's horse today also has that same combo .. must be something about that combo that works and might decide who the other two I would include here (2,3)


appreciate as always str

[str]

yeah I thought she might appeal to you at a price..I agree with the others you mentioned ..a very contentious race

one other thing I noticed that's kind of interesting..I picked a horse in the same kind of race yesterday who was scratched..firster by quality road out of a medaglia d'oro mare..irony of it is the same sire and dam sire won trained by the afforementioned danny gargan.. shug's horse today also has that same combo .. must be something about that combo that works and might decide who the other two I would include here (2,3)


appreciate as always str

A dismal effort from reading the charts. I saw bumped at the start. That could have knocked the wind out of her leaving the gate but... that excuse is way over played. Probably happens about 1-20 times you see "bumped" at the start.
Other than that possible reason, maybe she just can't run a lick. We'll see.
Sorry about that JBEX.

[JBEX]

A dismal effort from reading the charts. I saw bumped at the start. That could have knocked the wind out of her leaving the gate but... that excuse is way over played. Probably happens about 1-20 times you see "bumped" at the start.
Other than that possible reason, maybe she just can't run a lick. We'll see.
Sorry about that JBEX.

no problem str..we both thought the ingredients were there for a possible surprise..have to stay with it and one score makes up for a lot losers..most of these type plays aren't black and white decisions and I think how you handle the grey area ones (besides good and bad luck) may make the difference over the long haul

[JBEX]

R10 #9 fifty sheas of grey (6-1)


parx

curious what you think of this one..pennington not riding if the last race is genuine (although eased is a little concerning) and two back just missed for a higher tag..this also a n2l but lets 3yo's get in without meeting that condition..only one 3yo in this race..breaks same post as that good effort and outside, speed good in parx routes..trainer tearing it up from a small sample

[JBEX]

R10 #9 fifty sheas of grey (6-1)


parx

curious what you think of this one..pennington not riding if the last race is genuine (although eased is a little concerning) and two back just missed for a higher tag..this also a n2l but lets 3yo's get in without meeting that condition..only one 3yo in this race..breaks same post as that good effort and outside, speed good in parx routes..trainer tearing it up from a small sample

think will be a lot lower..over ml I'd worry