BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (cliff notes at end)

[HedgeHog]

For those supporting BOL, consider the possibilty that the OP may be in the right. That would make what BOL did here theft, and if the OP didn't know that SBR existed, they would've gotten away with it. Perhaps BOL does have deep pockets as some have suggested, but that's little consolation if they aren't willing to pay people in a timely manner--and perhaps not at all in the current case.

[El Stufruado]

BOL Will be paying the 65K apparently

[durito]

if they have so much cash to pay people then why have they been stalling and not paying people for 2 months now???

BOL is having BIG problems

they pay reasonably fast by several methods.

[Bill Dozer]

The player is all set. He'll be paid the 65k. Betonline sent us a note about their process that I'll post tonight.

Congrats Greg on a huge poker month.

BetOnline: After an exhaustive and extensive investigation we have of the players activity we have taken the decision to honor the players claim to his winnings.

As a new poker platform we believe it is essential to maintain the utmost security in our systems for the safety of our players and to conform to our regulatory obligations of our license. It’s not a fast process but ultimately it is the fairest.

We appreciate the patience of the poker community during this process and wish best of luck to you all

[Lint Pockets]

Yes even though he is all set and will be getting his 65k with that horrible site and the time it takes them to send a withdrawal he will be waiting about 5 years for his 65k

[Berrern]

Just saw on onlinepokersites.co.uk that they've now blacklisted BOL Poker:

http://www.onlinepokersites.co.uk/warnings/betonline-poker-rogue

Interesting ..

[Legions36]

Ok u were right OP and my bad for saying were a scammer. Im apologizing like i said i would had u been found in the right. Congrats about getting threw this and i never doubted had u been in the right u would be paid.

[Greg242]

MAJOR UPDATE: Official word from the RX and SBR is that BetOnline has finished their investigation and I will be getting paid. Will still continue to post future updates.

[erickvivar]

Great! nothing happened here, move on gents, move on, nothing to see, please empty the thread.

Truly yours,

SBR & BOL BFF

[stevenash]

No wonder BOL did not want to release the hand histories.

I'm done with them, I only have 300 in there, but that is coming out first thing tomorrow.

[arichmond64]

All they had to do was send the HH, how hard was that. They send them, and this whole thing doesn't blow up as big as it has.

[bubba]

No wonder BOL did not want to release the hand histories.

I'm done with them, I only have 300 in there, but that is coming out first thing tomorrow.

betonline looks awful in all this. had they been open with the player (hand history, honest emails etc) and it took them a few weeks to "investigate" before paying out, then fine.

will the hand histories be released now? will we be shown the hand(s) in question that 1) was the cause of suspicion 2) if released would have helped out the player to scam them had he in fact been a scammer?

unless im missing something (i may be but betonline has chosen to be silent on this thread) betonline screwed up the situation big time and should at least admit as such.

[Greg242]

betonline looks awful in all this. had they been open with the player (hand history, honest emails etc) and it took them a few weeks to "investigate" before paying out, then fine.

will the hand histories be released now? will we be shown the hand(s) in question that 1) was the cause of suspicion 2) if released would have helped out the player to scam them had he in fact been a scammer?

unless im missing something (i may be but betonline has chosen to be silent on this thread) betonline screwed up the situation big time and should at least admit as such.

Very curious about this too. I assume the hand histories will be released or I will atleast get an explanation of why my account was suspended and investiagted and after two weeks of asking for the hand histories I still never got them.

[prop]

Just saw on onlinepokersites.co.uk that they've now blacklisted BOL Poker.

I'm the owner of that website and their short stay on the blacklist has ended.

[mtneer1212]

Greg,

Good luck with your dispute, and great job in detailing the accounts of your actions. Lou, Justin, and others on this site are very good at assisting in matters like these. Betonline has always been fair to me, but let's see what they have on you and vice versa. Keep us updated please.

With time and patience, the facts will come in........

Congrats Greg! I knew you would get you money. Good luck and keep winning.

[whatagoal1]

Surely a 5000 payment for stress caused is in order?

The man has been accused of unsavoury pratices, and access to his OWN money has been denied for a considerable period, do the right thing BETONLINE, AND COMPENSATE THE MAN for the agroo you have caused him

[Mammon]

Without the forums this theft would have happened! It probably has already with a non forum guy. Crooks!

[mighty maron]

Here is the difference between just online poker rooms and poker rooms that are attached to sportsbooks. The exclusive online poker room makes money from rake. The money that is used for withdrawls come solely from deposits and promotions. Nothing else funds wise is created. The goal of the online poker site is to foster an atmosphere where your money is safe and deposits are handled with a smile because the house wins when you play.

The problem with the sportsbooks handling poker rooms is in the creation of money. A streaky bettor wins a lot in the sportsbook. Money is generated from nothing...bettor goes to the poker room. Online poker shark destroys the casual bettors and takes their money. Online poker player is not going to risk many wagers in the book. His contribution in the form of rake does not compensate the book if he/she is regularly destroying the bettor. When online poker player seeks to make a withdrawl, he is not withdrawing another online poker players deposited funds but in a lot of cases is taking out the generated winnings from the book.

Instead of getting the steady revenue stream like a conventional online poker room has...the sportsbook poker room runs the risk of feeding the poker sharks themselves from the generated losses the book suffered by the bettors going to the poker room. The BOL 65k case might be this or might be CC fraud that was lost to the poker shark. It could also be that the poker network that BOL is on is not willing or forthcoming to pay up (Action poker network has had several high profile no pay cases against them.)

So in conclusion...it is great that the OP is going to get paid. Where BOL suffers is it appears that they are paying the OP begrudingly. By not providing the hand histories and no response in the threads from BOL reps, a preception was created that BOL could not or would not pay the op. It appeared they were looking for a way out by claiming chip dumping. Right or wrong this view may be it is the perception that several people have.

Perception that a book might pay grudingly or only after third party involvment hurts the whole industry.


Disclosure of information in the form of the hand histories would have eased these perception problems.


Congrats op for your reputation being restored

[sideloaded]

extreme downgrade is in order. They tried to steal, got caught, and then quickly backtracked.

[sq764]

this is the response I got from Betonline for my hand history request for one night:

"Our poker department says they can not provide you the hand history on this manner, the amount is too massive. If you want to see your hand history from now on, in the poker software you can open any table, in the upper right corner you can click on hand history. This will open and instant hand history window, in there you click on options, check the save my hands history and choose the preferences on how and where will the future hands be saved.

[mtneer1212]

this is the response I got from Betonline for my hand history request for one night:

"Our poker department says they can not provide you the hand history on this manner, the amount is too massive. If you want to see your hand history from now on, in the poker software you can open any table, in the upper right corner you can click on hand history. This will open and instant hand history window, in there you click on options, check the save my hands history and choose the preferences on how and where will the future hands be saved.

This tells me that either they weren't tracking hand histories (unlikely), or they had very poor sorting and storage of the hand histories (likely).

[Bill Dozer]

extreme downgrade is in order. They tried to steal, got caught, and then quickly backtracked.

The criticism on how they handle this, the delay, and poker in general is fair. It's also fair that the same assumptions we expect not to be made against players are not made on the sportsbook. BetOnline never said they were closing his account or confiscating the money all while not sharing the hand history. The players initial post describes a poorly handled audit.
1000s of SBR and SBRforum users also play at BetOnline and we don't have a case of a player cheated in the 5 or so years. Lets see how fast they can get funds to Greg to make up for lost time.

[sq764]

This tells me that either they weren't tracking hand histories (unlikely), or they had very poor sorting and storage of the hand histories (likely).

absolutely impossible any credible poker site isn't tracking hand histories... Sounds to me like they don't have a ******* clue what they are doing..

[sq764]

The criticism on how they handle this, the delay, and poker in general is fair. It's also fair that the same assumptions we expect not to be made against players are not made on the sportsbook. BetOnline never said they were closing his account or confiscating the money all while not sharing the hand history. The players initial post describes a poorly handled audit.
1000s of SBR and SBRforum users also play at BetOnline and we don't have a case of a player cheated in the 5 or so years. Lets see how fast they can get funds to Greg to make up for lost time.

they 'identified' hands in which they accused him of chip dumping and they will not provide him with those hands. what more does one need to know about this situation?

Bill: That he's being paid without further discussion?

[sq764]

All they had to do was send the HH, how hard was that. They send them, and this whole thing doesn't blow up as big as it has.

Because there was no evidence and they are ******* liars

Bill: [I]Well, obviously there isn't evidence of it or else he wouldn't be getting paid. Maybe the player wants them to show him what triggered the delay? It's kind of like getting a ticket and going to court and them sayin, ya youre right but let's go sit down and discuss how we got here.

[Mammon]

Bill you suck. They tried to steal and this guy was done without the forums. -3900 that the hands never got to sbr since there was nothing. BOL was B+ now C+asssssssses...

Bill: No, we never got the hands and didn't ask for them to be sent to us as far as I know of. BetOnline never told us they didn't plan on paying him so we asked for their next step and waited for their poker mgr to present to mgt. No reason to wrestle the bull that's not coming out of the pen.

[bubba]

The criticism on how they handle this, the delay, and poker in general is fair. It's also fair that the same assumptions we expect not to be made against players are not made on the sportsbook. BetOnline never said they were closing his account or confiscating the money all while not sharing the hand history. The players initial post describes a poorly handled audit.
1000s of SBR and SBRforum users also play at BetOnline and we don't have a case of a player cheated in the 5 or so years. Lets see how fast they can get funds to Greg to make up for lost time.

poor betonline. everyone is picking on them for no reason. give them time and they will explain.

[Mammon]

Big Bill, they said its over! You cheated! That is worth B+ to C+ for 1 year. No evidence and went to steal as the first evidence of how to deal with a big winner.>>>>

[Greg242]

FWIW although I have heard that I am getting paid by SBR and the RX I have still recieved no official word or email from BetOnline and my BetOnline account is still suspended when I try and log in.

[thechaoz]

Lol wow ...global man

[tropolis]

the big question now is if you get paid, and if so, how long it takes.

[mighty maron]

Until OP gets first 15k wire in his hand, the thread should be monitored and updated.

[sideloaded]

The criticism on how they handle this, the delay, and poker in general is fair. It's also fair that the same assumptions we expect not to be made against players are not made on the sportsbook. BetOnline never said they were closing his account or confiscating the money all while not sharing the hand history. The players initial post describes a poorly handled audit.
1000s of SBR and SBRforum users also play at BetOnline and we don't have a case of a player cheated in the 5 or so years. Lets see how fast they can get funds to Greg to make up for lost time.

Without him filing the report with sbr he would have got nothing. It's clear cut. I don't know why you're going on about a poorly handled audit. There was never an audit but somehow betonline said he was cheating anyways. Once it was clear there was no way they could get away with it they decided to pay. Only thing to do now is downgrade.

[sq764]

Because there was no evidence and they are ******* liars

Bill: [i]Well, obviously there isn't evidence of it or else he wouldn't be getting paid. Maybe the player wants them to show him what triggered the delay? It's kind of like getting a ticket and going to court and them sayin, ya youre right but let's go sit down and discuss how we got here.

"10) On November 15, 2011 I re sent the same email I sent to them on November 12th, 2011 and got a response saying that my account had been reviewed and “chip dumping was detected and confirmed”"

So, chip dumping was 'detected and confirmed' and his account was suspended and payment denied... You're calling this a DELAY?

That's not quite 'let's sit down and discuss', that's 'you're out of luck pal, what are you going to do about it'.

The fact that you see nothing wrong with this is disgusting

[skrtelfan]

The criticism on how they handle this, the delay, and poker in general is fair. It's also fair that the same assumptions we expect not to be made against players are not made on the sportsbook. BetOnline never said they were closing his account or confiscating the money all while not sharing the hand history. The players initial post describes a poorly handled audit.

I think it's a lot worse than "poorly handled." If they simply said "We need to investigate the possibility of chip dumping" without stating an opinion either way and took two weeks to investigate without sending hand histories, that would be a problem but not too major in the grand scheme of things. But instead, they said:

"10) On November 15, 2011 I re sent the same email I sent to them on November 12th, 2011 and got a response saying that my account had been reviewed and “chip dumping was detected and confirmed”. I responded requesting all hand histories of every hand I had ever played on the site. I got a response back saying “the complete hand history is too massive for it to be sent. But I will personally send you the hands in which you were found cheating. If that is ok with you.”"

They claimed they confirmed chip dumping, and blatantly accused him of cheating. It's very clear this guy was not getting paid without the pressure exerted from the forums. Any time a book only pays because the forum exerted pressure, I believe they deserve an immediate downgrade.

Additionally, they made this guy make a bet in the sportsbook when he isn't even a sports bettor:

"5) Later on November 9, 2011 I requested another $15,000 wire withdrawal. When I checked the morning of November 10, 2011 to see if it had been processed it said it had been declined due to me not meeting my rollover requirement. It said that in order to meet the rollover requirement I had to wager $1222.80 in the SportsBook. First of all, there should not be a rollover requirement because I received no bonuses at all when making my deposit. Out of frustration, on November 10, 2011 I did not fight this ruling (at this point I just wanted to be able to withdrawal my winnings) and proceeded to wager $1300 in the SportsBook on an ATP tennis match."

If that tennis match lost, they should add $1300 to his payout request.

It will be interesting to see how SBR handles BetOnline's rating. Their actions here, falsely accusing the guy of cheating and only paying because of forum pressure, means they are in need of an immediate downgrade, and if SBR does not lower their rating, it's more evidence of them sweeping complaints about sponsor books under the rug, a la all the BetPhoenix complaints when they were a sponsor.