BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (cliff notes at end)

[sq764]

Bill you suck. They tried to steal and this guy was done without the forums. -3900 that the hands never got to sbr since there was nothing. BOL was B+ now C+asssssssses...

Bill: No, we never got the hands and didn't ask for them to be sent to us as far as I know of. BetOnline never told us they didn't plan on paying him so we asked for their next step and waited for their poker mgr to present to mgt. No reason to wrestle the bull that's not coming out of the pen.

Don't you think it would be fair and prudent for a highly rated SBR book to present their case as to how they 'detected and confirmed' chip dumping, then after further review (pressure from a highly public case of trying to stiff a customer 'decided to pay the customer'?

I know I would be curious how this process of confirmed chip dumping turned into paying the customer anyway

[mtneer1212]

I think it's a lot worse than "poorly handled." If they simply said "We need to investigate the possibility of chip dumping" without stating an opinion either way and took two weeks to investigate without sending hand histories, that would be a problem but not too major in the grand scheme of things. But instead, they said:

"10) On November 15, 2011 I re sent the same email I sent to them on November 12th, 2011 and got a response saying that my account had been reviewed and “chip dumping was detected and confirmed”. I responded requesting all hand histories of every hand I had ever played on the site. I got a response back saying “the complete hand history is too massive for it to be sent. But I will personally send you the hands in which you were found cheating. If that is ok with you.”"

They claimed they confirmed chip dumping, and blatantly accused him of cheating. It's very clear this guy was not getting paid without the pressure exerted from the forums. Any time a book only pays because the forum exerted pressure, I believe they deserve an immediate downgrade.

Additionally, they made this guy make a bet in the sportsbook when he isn't even a sports bettor:

"5) Later on November 9, 2011 I requested another $15,000 wire withdrawal. When I checked the morning of November 10, 2011 to see if it had been processed it said it had been declined due to me not meeting my rollover requirement. It said that in order to meet the rollover requirement I had to wager $1222.80 in the SportsBook. First of all, there should not be a rollover requirement because I received no bonuses at all when making my deposit. Out of frustration, on November 10, 2011 I did not fight this ruling (at this point I just wanted to be able to withdrawal my winnings) and proceeded to wager $1300 in the SportsBook on an ATP tennis match."

If that tennis match lost, they should add $1300 to his payout request.

It will be interesting to see how SBR handles BetOnline's rating. Their actions here, falsely accusing the guy of cheating and only paying because of forum pressure, means they are in need of an immediate downgrade, and if SBR does not lower their rating, it's more evidence of them sweeping complaints about sponsor books under the rug, a la all the BetPhoenix complaints when they were a sponsor.

This is the most intelligent post in the whole thread. Betonline has always been a good out for me, with prompt payments. But the issues outlined above require answers. I have always had great faith in Alex over there, and still do. But there has been and continues to be gross incompetence in some of the areas of that book. You can't say that an account has been reviewed, make an accusation, then take two weeks to conduct an audit before saying "NEVERMIND, It's all good". They already said you cheated. They should have said, "we would like to review the account for possible misconduct before we process your payout. Please give us a week to conduct an audit." That would have been more appropriate.

[Trident]

BetOnline: After an exhaustive and extensive investigation we have of the players activity we have taken the decision to honor the players claim to his winnings.

Nice choice of words, they make it sound like they were doing him a favor.

[Frogger]

Be happy you got the money. Without SBR, we can be sure BetOnline would have got away with 65k theft

[skrtelfan]

Nice choice of words, they make it sound like they were doing him a favor.

Yeah, they did the same thing with that CBB future last spring. They cloned a prop from the Greek on regular season CBB conference winners, and tried to grade a couple bets as losers claiming they were actually tournament bets. It was very obvious they were meant to be regular season bets because the conferences that have divisions were listed by the individual division champions and not the overall conference, i.e. regular season and not tournament. It took them the better part of a month and a bunch of forum posts to decide to pay the guy, and when they finally did, their forum posts basically sounded like they were doing him a favor. They said something to the effect of "You really lost your bet, we're just paying you to show how great our customer service is."

[RazzFan]

I'm the owner of that website and their short stay on the blacklist has ended.

Since a person with a BetOnline account and an account on any ActionPoker skin can sit at the same table, from the same IP, isn't that reason enough to keep them blacklisted?

[sq764]

Since a person with a BetOnline account and an account on any ActionPoker skin can sit at the same table, from the same IP, isn't that reason enough to keep them blacklisted?

they're only concerned with chip dumping when they have to pay out money... collusion, which is rampant there, is not a concern obviously..

[prop]

Since a person with a BetOnline account and an account on any ActionPoker skin can sit at the same table, from the same IP, isn't that reason enough to keep them blacklisted?

Blacklist = Small chance of being paid (oddspoker, wsex poker etc.) or insider cheating (Ultimate Bet, Absolute Poker etc.)

With a decent following and having first taken the issues to a private industry forum, then to affiliate forums and damn sure they were aware and not seeing any changes, I'll be honest the blacklist and dozens of posts on forums and blogs were meant as pressure moves - fix and address this or I'll be damn sure it costs you a LOT more than the funds you guys seized on mere suspicion. Of course it never got that far, and SBR and TheRX got the resolution started now. Giving everyone the benefit of the doubt all across the board: BetOnline was not well equipped for the issues the poker room brought to their company, is now aware of the issues they face and will fix them.

A warning about the higher probability poker players get cheated at BetOnline poker due to their lack of safe guards against it is warranted. Blacklist? imo, no.

[mighty maron]

Blacklist = Small chance of being paid (oddspoker, wsex poker etc.) or insider cheating (Ultimate Bet, Absolute Poker etc.)

With a decent following and having first taken the issues to a private industry forum, then to affiliate forums and damn sure they were aware and not seeing any changes, I'll be honest the blacklist and dozens of posts on forums and blogs were meant as pressure moves - fix and address this or I'll be damn sure it costs you a LOT more than the funds you guys seized on mere suspicion. Of course it never got that far, and SBR and TheRX got the resolution started now. Giving everyone the benefit of the doubt all across the board: BetOnline was not well equipped for the issues the poker room brought to their company, is now aware of the issues they face and will fix them.

A warning about the higher probability poker players get cheated at BetOnline poker due to their lack of safe guards against it is warranted. Blacklist? imo, no.

The book announced the player was dumping in their correspondence. The book refused to hand over the hand history. The book is on a poker network that is closed to americans. The book is risking Playsafe share holders by being on the action poker network. All publicly held poker sites left the USA after the UIGEA came into effect for fear of stockholder exposure.

The book has an BETONLINE forum account where Alex posts and handles some fires here. The book's rep has never come into this thread and posted an apology to this player for his rep. The book has problably not offered the player any compensation for slander, or the interest for holding onto his money.

The book and network have security flaws where people from the same IP can play each other on the same table. The network is notorious for not paying affiliates.

The book grudingly bent to pressure on this...

How can the Book and its poker site (especially the poker site of the book) not be blacklisted?

The book has many fires to put out and still get the first 15k into the players hand

[Greg242]

I just spoke with Tommy on the phone who was the manager in charge of this situation apparently. He seemed like a nice guy and he genuinely cared about what happened. When I logged in this morning I saw I had lost my $1300 tennis bet and asked him about their rollover requirement. He claims, which I really hope is the truth, that even though I recieved no bonuses at all that in order to withdrawal you still have to match the amount of your deposit in sports bets. (Not sure the right way to phrase this as I know nothing about rollovers or sports betting) They did not offer me any kind of compensation and I thought it would be nice if they would atleast offer to cover my $1300 sports bet loss in order to try and get me to stay with them but they did not. I am glad I am getting my money atleast but can say I do not think there is any way I would ever play at BetOnline again. I will be requesting my first $15,000 wire today and will give updates in this thread of when I get it.

[mtneer1212]

I just spoke with Tommy on the phone who was the manager in charge of this situation apparently. He seemed like a nice guy and he genuinely cared about what happened. When I logged in this morning I saw I had lost my $1300 tennis bet and asked him about their rollover requirement. He claims, which I really hope is the truth, that even though I recieved no bonuses at all that in order to withdrawal you still have to match the amount of your deposit in sports bets. (Not sure the right way to phrase this as I know nothing about rollovers or sports betting) They did not offer me any kind of compensation and I thought it would be nice if they would atleast offer to cover my $1300 sports bet loss in order to try and get me to stay with them but they did not. I am glad I am getting my money atleast but can say I do not think there is any way I would ever play at BetOnline again. I will be requesting my first $15,000 wire today and will give updates in this thread of when I get it.

By that logic then, BetOnline should also require that sportsbettors play the amount of their deposits in poker tournaments. Same logic - which is nonsense.

[mighty maron]

I just spoke with Tommy on the phone who was the manager in charge of this situation apparently. He seemed like a nice guy and he genuinely cared about what happened. When I logged in this morning I saw I had lost my $1300 tennis bet and asked him about their rollover requirement. He claims, which I really hope is the truth, that even though I recieved no bonuses at all that in order to withdrawal you still have to match the amount of your deposit in sports bets. (Not sure the right way to phrase this as I know nothing about rollovers or sports betting) They did not offer me any kind of compensation and I thought it would be nice if they would atleast offer to cover my $1300 sports bet loss in order to try and get me to stay with them but they did not. I am glad I am getting my money atleast but can say I do not think there is any way I would ever play at BetOnline again. I will be requesting my first $15,000 wire today and will give updates in this thread of when I get it.

Keep the thread updated with each of the payouts you receive.

[bubba]

By that logic then, BetOnline should also require that sportsbettors play the amount of their deposits in poker tournaments. Same logic - which is nonsense.

its well within their right to have this rule. it should be clearly expressed on the deposit page of their website so there are no surprises. i dont know if it is or not.

[Greg242]

By that logic then, BetOnline should also require that sportsbettors play the amount of their deposits in poker tournaments. Same logic - which is nonsense.

Would be great if someone who knows could actually verify if this requirement is true and they just did not make it up and say it to me as an excuse. Even though it sounds like a really stupid rule atleast if this really is in their rules I will feel like I was not cheated.

[mtneer1212]

its well within their right to have this rule. it should be clearly expressed on the deposit page of their website so there are no surprises. i dont know if it is or not.

Why? He did not accept a bonus. He played the amount of his deposit in poker play. Why does he need to make a sports bet? I don't understand your reasoning, bubba......

And just a disclaimer, I really like betonline for sports. So, I'm not out to bash them, but this is a silly rule.

[Huh]

I just spoke with Tommy on the phone who was the manager in charge of this situation apparently. He seemed like a nice guy and he genuinely cared about what happened. When I logged in this morning I saw I had lost my $1300 tennis bet and asked him about their rollover requirement. He claims, which I really hope is the truth, that even though I recieved no bonuses at all that in order to withdrawal you still have to match the amount of your deposit in sports bets. (Not sure the right way to phrase this as I know nothing about rollovers or sports betting) They did not offer me any kind of compensation and I thought it would be nice if they would atleast offer to cover my $1300 sports bet loss in order to try and get me to stay with them but they did not. I am glad I am getting my money atleast but can say I do not think there is any way I would ever play at BetOnline again. I will be requesting my first $15,000 wire today and will give updates in this thread of when I get it.

only reason you got paid was thanks to that pro poker player who went to bat for you and threatened to go public. You need to send him a nice Christmas card

[sq764]

Would be great if someone who knows could actually verify if this requirement is true and they just did not make it up and say it to me as an excuse. Even though it sounds like a really stupid rule atleast if this really is in their rules I will feel like I was not cheated.

i read through the general rules and poker rules for kicks and there is no mention of anything close to that requirement.. not surprising.. more lies from Betonline

[Greg242]

i read through the general rules and poker rules for kicks and there is no mention of anything close to that requirement.. not surprising.. more lies from Betonline

If it really is not a requirement that really really pisses me off after the guy had the nerve to tell me that while telling me how sorry he was about the whole situation and how sorry BetOnline was about how I was treated.

[sideloaded]

The only thing they were sorry about was being exposed on the forums. They almost had 65k all to themselves.

[sq764]

If it really is not a requirement that really really pisses me off after the guy had the nerve to tell me that while telling me how sorry he was about the whole situation and how sorry BetOnline was about how I was treated.

the only thing they are sorry about is they were pressured into paying you and not being able to steal the money from you. The fact that they still have not provided these mystery 'chip dumping' hands is pathetic. And the fact that the same person can play from 2 different networks from the same computer on the same table is pathetic. Another lie from BOL, that they are on their own network.

[mighty maron]

If it really is not a requirement that really really pisses me off after the guy had the nerve to tell me that while telling me how sorry he was about the whole situation and how sorry BetOnline was about how I was treated.

They freerolled you. They took your name and dragged it thru the mud. They declared you guilty. They emailed you and said that other "legit" complaints were to be taken care of first. They never released the hand histories. This is the essence of a freeroll. Lets fling all this mud and if any sticks then we are up 65k. If nothing sticks then we just pay him what we owe him.

Just Paying what you owe after what BOL put OP thru is nowhere near enough.

Stop freerolling OP BOL

[HedgeHog]

Congrats to the OP on the favorable decision. However, you won a battle not the War as BOL will slow-pay you for sure (same as they are doing with my $2500 check). Your first wire will not be received before 2012 and I'll bet anyone even money on this. Also, I'm not so sure you'll have your full 65k by next Thanksgiving. BOL is a joke at B+, even SBR knows it.

[mighty maron]

OK lets set the clock then for the first 15K wire.....what is the quoted time on the BOL website or a reasonable time for the wire to hit.....

[stevenash]

Holy crap, I am looking at the other websites, there is a lot of pull out of BoL posts going on.

[durito]

Your first wire will not be received before 2012 and I'll bet anyone even money on this..

how much?

[mighty maron]

OK lets set the clock then for the first 15K wire.....what is the quoted time on the BOL website or a reasonable time for the wire to hit.....

wire payouts are very fast, usually under a week, but depending on the bank, they can take up to 10 business days. Maximum payout via this method is $15,000 per week. You must fax or email us your complete wire instructions. A wire Fee of $45 to $75 is deducted for each transaction.

from BOL website...
December 9th would be the 10th business day.....

[HedgeHog]

how much?

You are betting that the OP receives at least 15k by wire prior to January 1st, 2012. Bet as many SBR points as you want up to 1000 by hitting the gold coin in this post. I think you know I'm good for it. Offer is open the rest of today, Durito.

[katstale]

how much?

\\

Congrats OP. Knew this would get resolved in your favor if your story was true. See if they will let u keep playing there on -105!! Then contact Durito. lol

[HedgeHog]

OK lets set the clock then for the first 15K wire.....what is the quoted time on the BOL website or a reasonable time for the wire to hit.....

My "express" check request from 11/11/11, promises a 7 regular day delivery. It hasn't even been processed yet. I understand that that wires are delayed even worse.

[mighty maron]

My "express" check request from 11/11/11, promises a 7 regular day delivery. It hasn't even been processed yet.

Im just posting the date according to whats on the BOL website...I dont think he gets it by that date....

[durito]

My "express" check request from 11/11/11, promises a 7 regular day delivery. It hasn't even been processed yet. I understand that that wires are delayed even worse.

they take around 4weeks right now is what i´ve seen. other methods are much faster.

[HedgeHog]

they take around 4weeks right now is what i´ve seen. other methods are much faster.

Your bet is accepted, and it's one I don't mind losing. PM me if you hear of payment before New Years. Once verified, you'll be paid promptly, which is more than I can say of BOL lately.

[bubba]

Why? He did not accept a bonus. He played the amount of his deposit in poker play. Why does he need to make a sports bet? I don't understand your reasoning, bubba......

And just a disclaimer, I really like betonline for sports. So, I'm not out to bash them, but this is a silly rule.

i feel books should be able to put up any rules they want (within reason), fair or not, as long as they are know before money is sent. its a customer right to decide whether he wants to play at book with these known rules. if betonline wanted to have a 5X rollover in sportsbook on all deposits, they can certainly do this. they would probably lose a ton of business. if they made this rule clear to anyone thinking of depositing, how is that not fair?

[Greg242]

i feel books should be able to put up any rules they want (within reason), fair or not, as long as they are know before money is sent. its a customer right to decide whether he wants to play at book with these known rules. if betonline wanted to have a 5X rollover in sportsbook on all deposits, they can certainly do this. they would probably lose a ton of business. if they made this rule clear to anyone thinking of depositing, how is that not fair?

I agree with you. However I am trying to find it in the rules at BetOnline that there must be a 1x rollover on sports for all deposits and can not find it.

[prop]

Greg I can confirm that written or not this is the rule - no one can cash out without the 1x rollover on sports. It might be unfair this is the case and perhaps BEFORE making the bet if you pointed out the fact this is stated nowhere and you could not possibly have been aware or agreed - then it would be reasonable for them to make an exception (and I think forums would support you on this - if in fact it is true that it is not written). Understanding how slow their support is how many hassles you had gotten so far you made the bet in order to not deal with it. Understandable to place the bet out of frustration and under duress, at that point however (my opinion is) you gave up the right to dispute the 1x rollover. I understand why you did it but there is no dispute on that matter at this point (just my opinion of course).