Pinnacle for stateside players

[Max009]

Why dont you limit on the maximum payout instead of maximum betting limit. You have $40,000 limit on straight bets. Why dont you have $40,000 limit on the parlay and teaser payouts. In both cases, you have to hold the same amount in escrow.

Your example illustrates the point, 1 $1000 parlay could tie up $40,000 or we could take 40 $1000 wagers. We will get a lot more turns out of the straight wagers than we will out of the parlays. It also allows us to serve more customers.

[vyomguy]

This is disturbing to hear that you guys dont have enough funds to cover a decent parlay payout. Better to stay away from playing until you guys are established.

[bookie]

This is disturbing to hear that you guys dont have enough funds to cover a decent parlay payout. Better to stay away from playing until you guys are established.

I find it refreshing that Max is up front about risk management and responsible enough to limit his parlay liabilities. He's selling a back door into Pinnacle straight bet lines, so I'm glad to see him focusing on the product that in fact he's most likely to sell. If you want to bet huge parlays there are other places that will take them without blinking.

On the same note, it's too bad the book is named what it is named, They should have changed it when they moved past the idea of selling parlays through the MB interface.

[Max009]

This is disturbing to hear that you guys dont have enough funds to cover a decent parlay payout. Better to stay away from playing until you guys are established.

The issue isn't our ability to fund payouts, the issue is we have to guarantee payment on every wager we take, which means we have to maximize the capital we have in the most effective way possible.

We think the upside of guaranteed instant payment is worth the tradeoff for us and the player.

[wrongturn]

Thanks, after having been against the change initially I think it has worked out for the best for everyone. When you say refresh button....refresh what exactly?

It is the screen that shows all the lines after I click "Get Lines" button. Does it auto-refresh?

[Max009]

It is the screen that shows all the lines after I click "Get Lines" button. Does it auto-refresh?

No it does not. We have do have on our to do list to add a refresh lines to that screen. Might be a couple weeks before that is updated though. Thanks for the input.

[Optional]

Hi Max,

I'm having a problem with screen layout. Sometimes part of the lines box is covered up by your right side menu, making it un-usable. (I've learned to include lines from some event I don't want first, pushing the ones I do want down below the problem)

See attached screen shot.

[Max009]

Hi Max,

I'm having a problem with screen layout. Sometimes part of the lines box is covered up by your right side menu, making it un-usable. (I've learned to include lines from some event I don't want first, pushing the ones I do want down below the problem)

See attached screen shot.

Thanks for the info. I haven't seen that issue before, I wonder if it is a screen size issue or maybe a browser issue. I will forward to the tech guys.

[Optional]

1280x1024, XP, Firefox

[scott235]

You can read about the Parlaymakers history...starting with us working with Matchbook and stuff and we discuss GP in there as well. In short we are separate but we do have a very good working relationship with them.

So, just to be clear- since all winnings are instantly transferred to the linked g-ldpay account, PM can't touch it after that, and all payouts are the resposibility of GP?

[Max009]

So, just to be clear- since all winnings are instantly transferred to the linked g-ldpay account, PM can't touch it after that, and all payouts are the resposibility of GP?

That is correct.

[lukahh]

hmm... what do ou do if you misgrade the wager?

[LVHerbie]

Just for you Hareeba(not really but it sounds good). After a long discussion with my business partners we are implementing a change. It will take a few days to implement and test but by next week clients will have an option under their preferences tab. The option will consist of Market order or Firm order. If they select Market order then their wagers will always be processed at the most current line whether that is a positive or negative (Contrary to the conspiracy theorists we are not cheating the customer). If the Firm order option is selected then any line change will kick back to the customer for their approval before the wager is booked. This should help our players who like to get a wager down in a fast moving market to get the best line possible and will give those of you who only want a specific number that flexibility. From hence forward it will be known as the Hareeba Fix.

Damn... I'm glad I waded through eight pages to get this spoiler... As a American I'm having a hard figuring out why I don't already have account here...

My first question is are you working on getting some kindof post up option (similar to MB) for US players? For instant payouts the 2% commission seems fair but given that the currency being tied to gold it seems like it would be nice to have the option to post up... I guess I don't understand why you can't offer a post up option (similar to other books using GP) where I can just transfer X number of dollars through to your site through GP and have you hold the money until I want a withdraw and avoid the fees... Personally I could see myself using both options but, regardless, I'm willing to work around this to get nearer to pinnacle lines...

Thus, my only real concern is the lack of feedback from SBR... Having a conspiracy/paranoid oriented mind (and since I haven't seen this in the five years I been here) it is hard not to see the "under review" since April as some kind of warning flag...

Honestly, the SBR "does it own thing and we are building our customer base one player at a time thing" doesn't really cut it for me...

[bookie]

LVHerbie...I can tell you Max's line...although as we've seen maybe he'll change it. Eighty percent of doing customer service in a book is working with funds transfers. It's complicated to get the infrastructure set up, and labor intensive to administer. Max says they can only afford to live off the Pinnacle edge they get dealing Pinnacle lines outsourcing funds transfers.

The SBR issue is pretty straightforward. As you probably know, if you have a banner up they get a cut, and they're more interested in reviewing you. If no banner deal is cut SBR provides a forum for players to discuss amongst themselves the merits of a book, and in his own clumsy way Max is in here provoking discussion and mixing it up and once in a while even listening.

[Max009]

Damn... I'm glad I waded through eight pages to get this spoiler... As a American I'm having a hard figuring out why I don't already have account here...

My first question is are you working on getting some kindof post up option (similar to MB) for US players? For instant payouts the 2% commission seems fair but given that the currency being tied to gold it seems like it would be nice to have the option to post up... I guess I don't understand why you can't offer a post up option (similar to other books using GP) where I can just transfer X number of dollars through to your site through GP and have you hold the money until I want a withdraw and avoid the fees... Personally I could see myself using both options but, regardless, I'm willing to work around this to get nearer to pinnacle lines...

Thus, my only real concern is the lack of feedback from SBR... Having a conspiracy/paranoid oriented mind (and since I haven't seen this in the five years I been here) it is hard not to see the "under review" since April as some kind of warning flag...

Honestly, the SBR "does it own thing and we are building our customer base one player at a time thing" doesn't really cut it for me...

We are not in control of SBR and when they rate things. We do have an agreement in place with SBR that they will act as the binding arbitrator for any dispute you may have with Parlaymakers up to $2500. We are the only sportsbook that has this binding arbitration option. That along with the guaranteed instant payouts I think puts the player in a very good position.

I am sure they will officially rate us eventually.

[DevilCheese]

hmm... what do ou do if you misgrade the wager?

I was wondering the same

[PharaohUB]

Grading slow again today 1pm mlb wagers still pending

[LostBankroll]

Terrible, You guys have alt to fix before I play there. Funny how they wait 6 hours to grade a wager.

[bookie]

Grading slow again today 1pm mlb wagers still pending

Pharoh...Did you have any trouble making bets today? I couldn't get a 2H bet accepted, even when I had my preferences set for "market."

[LVHerbie]

We are not in control of SBR and when they rate things. We do have an agreement in place with SBR that they will act as the binding arbitrator for any dispute you may have with Parlaymakers up to $2500. We are the only sportsbook that has this binding arbitration option. That along with the guaranteed instant payouts I think puts the player in a very good position. I am sure they will officially rate us eventually.

Yea, I did a search on the main SBR site (non-forum site) for "unrated" and realized that it wasn't as unique as I initially perceived as I usually stick with more established books... SBR has kindof gone in a different direction then where they were at five years ago... Obviously some is good, some is bad but I guess I'll try to keep my reactionary views to myself...

Max can you address my first question as well? Why can non-US players post up through MB but why can't it be an option for Americans to do it through GP given that (I'm assuming) it would avoid transaction fees for your company and your players...

[LVHerbie]

I will just be upfront with my concerns... My first thought is that the commissions on transfers through GP might actually be the source of most of your profit and help explain how you could jump from $250 to 40k limits... IE you require the bets to matched to pinnacle's prices because you are just dumping most of the action to pinnacle and generating commissions off the wins through GP...

As others have pointed out neither online gold currencies or sportsbooks exactly have a spotless history with the US government and if you are just using GP as a front to basically act as middle between pinnacle and US players it hard to see how you can't be on the radar... While I think the legal risk might be low to your players it hard to not be concerned about the safety our money tied up at GP given (if my scenario is correct) "they" are basically escrowing our "deposits" for your company...

Can you expand on what part my thinking is incorrect?

[lukahh]

I will just be upfront with my concerns... My first thought is that the commissions on transfers through GP might actually be the source of most of your profit and help explain how you could jump from $250 to 40k limits... IE you require the bets to matched to pinnacle's prices because you are just dumping most of the action to pinnacle and generating commissions off the wins through GP...

As others have pointed out neither online gold currencies or sportsbooks exactly have a spotless history with the US government and if you are just using GP as a front to basically act as middle between pinnacle and US players it hard to see how you can't be on the radar... While I think the legal risk might be low to your players it hard to not be concerned about the safety our money tied up at GP given (if my scenario is correct) "they" are basically escrowing our "deposits" for your company...

Can you expand on what part my thinking is incorrect?

i don't know, but i have a feeling this is incorrect.
i believe they'd take your deposit in traditional way as well - right? so by your thinking, they'd have no profit if you didn't use the GP.
if you are unhappy paying GP comission, make a traditional deposit and play. providing they have capable management, it is a sustainable business model.

[Max009]

Yea, I did a search on the main SBR site (non-forum site) for "unrated" and realized that it wasn't as unique as I initially perceived as I usually stick with more established books... SBR has kindof gone in a different direction then where they were at five years ago... Obviously some is good, some is bad but I guess I'll try to keep my reactionary views to myself...

Max can you address my first question as well? Why can non-US players post up through MB but why can't it be an option for Americans to do it through GP given that (I'm assuming) it would avoid transaction fees for your company and your players...

We setup things with GP the way they are because it is cheaper processing and operationally wise for us. Also, we like very much the idea of instant guaranteed payouts for players, it separates us from everybody else.

[Max009]

I will just be upfront with my concerns... My first thought is that the commissions on transfers through GP might actually be the source of most of your profit and help explain how you could jump from $250 to 40k limits... IE you require the bets to matched to pinnacle's prices because you are just dumping most of the action to pinnacle and generating commissions off the wins through GP...

As others have pointed out neither online gold currencies or sportsbooks exactly have a spotless history with the US government and if you are just using GP as a front to basically act as middle between pinnacle and US players it hard to see how you can't be on the radar... While I think the legal risk might be low to your players it hard to not be concerned about the safety our money tied up at GP given (if my scenario is correct) "they" are basically escrowing our "deposits" for your company...

Can you expand on what part my thinking is incorrect?

Your thinking is not correct. GP works with a lot of places, not just us. We started out working with Matchbook and not using GP as part of our business model. You can read a little of our history on our blog which explains how we got started in more detail.

[PharaohUB]

Pharoh...Did you have any trouble making bets today? I couldn't get a 2H bet accepted, even when I had my preferences set for "market."

Yes i have been getting a mesage on live wagering and 2nd half bets that the market odds have changed. Even though I have market set on preferences. I think it's a bug they are working out. If you use the bonus lines you can make your play. You can try contacting live support they said they'd credit me the difference between bonus lines and low juice lines. I just can't be bothered over a few pennies.

[bookie]

Yes i have been getting a mesage on live wagering and 2nd half bets that the market odds have changed. Even though I have market set on preferences. I think it's a bug they are working out. If you use the bonus lines you can make your play. You can try contacting live support they said they'd credit me the difference between bonus lines and low juice lines. I just can't be bothered over a few pennies.

Thanks for confirmation Pharaoh...Since I haven't seen anybody else discuss the problem I was worried it might be a browser issue or something on my end.

[vyomguy]

How come max doesnt answer the question that it takes 6 hours to grade a wager?

[Hareeba!]

Yes i have been getting a mesage on live wagering and 2nd half bets that the market odds have changed. Even though I have market set on preferences. I think it's a bug they are working out. If you use the bonus lines you can make your play. You can try contacting live support they said they'd credit me the difference between bonus lines and low juice lines. I just can't be bothered over a few pennies.

surely they didn't manage to mess up implementation of the "Hareeba Fix" !!!

[Dark Horse]

Max, I like the model where the money goes straight back into a neutral account. But I can't say I like GP. Over the long run money deposited at GP, at present, should drop in value, because the gold price is off the scale. A person could double his money in a year, only to end up even. Can you work on other, similar options without the gold?

[Pokerjoe]

I will just be upfront with my concerns... My first thought is that the commissions on transfers through GP might actually be the source of most of your profit and help explain how you could jump from $250 to 40k limits... IE you require the bets to matched to pinnacle's prices because you are just dumping most of the action to pinnacle and generating commissions off the wins through GP...

As others have pointed out neither online gold currencies or sportsbooks exactly have a spotless history with the US government and if you are just using GP as a front to basically act as middle between pinnacle and US players it hard to see how you can't be on the radar... While I think the legal risk might be low to your players it hard to not be concerned about the safety our money tied up at GP given (if my scenario is correct) "they" are basically escrowing our "deposits" for your company...

Can you expand on what part my thinking is incorrect?

Good points.

Seems like this book is Pinny with 2% commission. Pinny +2% isn't Pinny. Not even close.

[lukahh]

can't you do a traditional deposit to PM? you must go thru GP??

[bookie]

can't you do a traditional deposit to PM? you must go thru GP??

If you're US-based, yes. If elsewhere they take Moneybookers.

Pokerjoe...being able to bet 1Q's and 2H's at -107 isn't Pinnacle, but for those of us stuck in the U.S. it beats the alternatives.

[Max009]

surely they didn't manage to mess up implementation of the "Hareeba Fix" !!!

Pretty sure we have got the fix for this now. Software development is a never ending process...always something to fix or improve.

[thespeculator]

this book isn't pinnacle, well , i think the teasers are better here, also there parlay options are unlimited unlike pinnacle where you can't parlay halves etc . etc., there are lot of great things about parlaymakers

[Max009]

Max, I like the model where the money goes straight back into a neutral account. But I can't say I like GP. Over the long run money deposited at GP, at present, should drop in value, because the gold price is off the scale. A person could double his money in a year, only to end up even. Can you work on other, similar options without the gold?

For the US market there isn't that many options. You can always control how much you have in gp at any given time by cashing out. I imagine most players are not going to keep large balances there.

We may work on some private options for high rollers but that would be after demonstrated use of the site. I am considering as we roll out our loyalty program to have perhaps the top tier have access to additional vip options that would include some private direct funding options and payout options.

I think for most players the current arrangement is a very good one.