[lotuspod]

your patience and professionalism are both admirable. i have read this thread like a book and you have answered all questions posed despite the attacking manner. the concept is interesting and seems to have potential. even being able to raise the 10 million is impressive showing others believe in it's potential as well. i am definitely rooting for you all and have bookmarked some sites to watch progress. please keep us updated here as well.

Thanks, it's not easy with the negative stigma around projects started through ICO's and just being a new sportsbook on top of that. Not saying some of that stigma isn't deserved, but I've made an honest effort to give legit factual info and raw numbers when possible...even outside the scope of Wagerr and more in the realm of general crypto. As with this link I posted in the big crypto discussion thread here, which allows anyone with a bit of math knowledge to gain their own true insight into the whole ICO thing -

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...zvgvMucI56uy-g

Regarding the 10 million raised, it was actually decided to keep it as much as possible in crypto...which in hindsight was a smart move - since the raise occurred around May/June 2017. Aside from that the WGR current market cap is valued over $30 million which I would hope provides at least some assurance/comfort for the vast majority of bettors.

This one is the real deal, compare it to other crypto-gambling projects...most of which have some form of centralization anyway so that makes them hardly different than a Nitrogen or a 5Dimes-style network. Wagerr is cracking the problem that these other teams said was simply too difficult.

Looking at the list of Wagerr's contributing devs on github and other projects they've contributed to, it's pretty clear there is some serious talent that would be nearly impossible to replicate anywhere else(at this point it would take up into the 9-figures to feel comfortable doing so). And it's all being made open-source section by section.

Literally a gift to the gambling world, as I said earlier -since this needs to be stressed- it's about trying to guarantee some essential and reasonable basic rights for gamblers worldwide, through code and consensus.

Likely as we saw with btc(but to a lesser extent these days), it will take time for people to understand just how useful it can be and the myriad of ways to build upon it. A sportsbook simply cannot be run on btc directly, fees would be massive and you'd have to place bets hours beforehand and pray they get accepted. So Wagerr is the next best thing, since people can easily settle up with btc later anyway...saving users' fees and helping the bitcoin network stay a little less clogged with lots of smaller transactions.


Edit - I forgot to add that you can find a ton of discussion about it on their Telegram here - https://t.me/wagerrcoin

Or their Discord, which I've helped to build and mod - https://discord.gg/tkcXS34


Lastly, don't feel like a bystander. The great thing about these kinds of networks is that they are essentially ran by the users. This is about as far from a corporate gambling network as you can get. Everyone's voice counts, those who contribute are rewarded fairly, and for the most part we're all just peers. The founder, David - is probably one of the nicest people you'll meet and quit his medical practice to contribute full-time. He's notoriously 'economical' to put it politely lol, and still happily driving his old Kia.

[danshan11]

question does SBR allow you to post links and promote your sportsbook in the forum? DOnt you think with the 10 million you borrowed you should maybe pay for advertising? The feds wont like that your ICO failed without spending a penny on advertising it will look fishy for sure

[jimmy007oc]

oh, I thought the market of coins is driven by some force behind the coin, maybe I am confused, I truly did not know things are worth what people are willing to pay for it, thanks for the superb insight. My thought of the day, will be something is worth what somebody will pay for it.

I’m sure one thing, this coin is worth more than your broke ass.

[danshan11]

I’m sure one thing, this coin is worth more than your broke ass.

heck yeah right now it is for sure, give it 6 months and we shall see who is worth more and I only got like 34 dollars to my name. So it will be close but I think 34 is good enough to beat them in 6 months or a year

here is some reading dont believe me read here https://www.investopedia.com/news/80...-scams-report/

only thing they have going for them is they got lots of money upfront and might take longer than a year to "spend" it all

[bigtymer56]

oh, I thought the market of coins is driven by some force behind the coin, maybe I am confused, I truly did not know things are worth what people are willing to pay for it, thanks for the superb insight. My thought of the day, will be something is worth what somebody will pay for it.

Glad to help bro! Sometimes the answer is simple!

[danshan11]

1 point with an LOL

[Optional]

question does SBR allow you to post links and promote your sportsbook in the forum? DOnt you think with the 10 million you borrowed you should maybe pay for advertising? The feds wont like that your ICO failed without spending a penny on advertising it will look fishy for sure

He's not grossly promoting it and it's been explained going too far down that route won't fly here.

Give him a chance now Dan. We've had plenty of space to criticize. Give others more interested in this some space to contribute to the convo now I think?

[danshan11]

He's not grossly promoting it and it's been explained going too far down that route won't fly here.

Give him a chance now Dan. We've had plenty of space to criticize. Give others more interested in this some space to contribute to the convo now I think?

he has ridiculed me and belittled me and of course you pick me to tell to chill out. you think that is ok? I only respond cause
A he has dodged the real questions over and over
B he has tried to make fun of how I write by implying I am stupid "let me sort through this jibberish" or whatever he said and more things. He said I dont have any knowledge and even quoted me from another post where I said I dont have any knowledge on the subject. You even told me 2 days ago not to promote my site and he is posting links about his daily, so what gives Optional can you explain your position on me cause I care less about the ICO scam business and I am not a public defender against ICO scams or trying to deter someone from throwing their money directly into the toilet or into an ICO, they are nearly equivalent. I have not lied, inflated or said anything out of turn on the subject, every comment suggestion was to give him the opportunity to be transparent and answer very common ?s on the matter.

Please explain your position on this Optional Please

[danshan11]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ioxvJgJiZui9ZD1nud2oLpClYCFcnzvgvMucI56 uy-g
https://t.me/wagerrcoin
https://discord.gg/tkcXS34

things that make you go hmmm

[Optional]

he has ridiculed me and belittled me and of course you pick me to tell to chill out. you think that is ok? I only respond cause
A he has dodged the real questions over and over
B he has tried to make fun of how I write by implying I am stupid "let me sort through this jibberish" or whatever he said and more things. He said I dont have any knowledge and even quoted me from another post where I said I dont have any knowledge on the subject. You even told me 2 days ago not to promote my site and he is posting links about his daily, so what gives Optional can you explain your position on me cause I care less about the ICO scam business and I am not a public defender against ICO scams or trying to deter someone from throwing their money directly into the toilet or into an ICO, they are nearly equivalent. I have not lied, inflated or said anything out of turn on the subject, every comment suggestion was to give him the opportunity to be transparent and answer very common ?s on the matter.

Please explain your position on this Optional Please

Bwah bwah. I didn't TELL you to chill out or tell you anything. I politely suggested we stopped the boring repeated negativeness for a moment.

My position? You're being a dick now. Go find something else to do for a while.

I hope that's clearer for you now.

[jjgold]

zero market person-to-person betting in the USA

[jimmy007oc]

Bwah bwah. I didn't TELL you to chill out or tell you anything. I politely suggested we stopped the boring repeated negativeness for a moment.

My position? You're being a dick now. Go find something else to do for a while.

I hope that's clearer for you now.

Well said OP.

[danshan11]

yeah since Optional is on the Wagerr payroll and the secret is now out, lets take what he says with a grain of salt, he is obviously bias, Anyway the truth is ICOS are 80% scam, 19% failures and 1% success. I dont like my money in 1 to 99 projects.

Peer to peer high cost, horribly interface and no benefit for your typical bettor at this point makes Wagerr useless. I am glad that optional has as a moderator openly said promoting your own site is allowed as long as you dont over do it, sounds good, all Spammers please feel free to start spamming your affiliate links and your personal scam sites, thanks to Optional.

anyway most ICOS suck and Wagerr is useless, has no use!

[Optional]

I've ripped on them fairly hard too Dan.

I'm wary of how this works.

But people are interested, including you and I, and the pages of negativity is stifling the conversation.

Let's just watch for a while and see what happens is all I was suggesting. I wasn't calling you out or trying to take any side.

[danshan11]

ok so tell the guy to be transparent and answer the questions and quit taking shots at me as a tactic to not answer the simple questions. I only keep giving my opinion because he keeps taking shots at me. I could care less about wagerr. I was doing more a public service announcement, I consider myself a crypto expert of sorts and I hate to see naive people sucked in by all these garbage ICO's. My final thought on this
Guy needs to be transparent
watch his words and answer questions like a professional BTW is another sign of the BS
and instead of trying to make me sound like just an asshole or incompetent he should just be honest and answer

[kingdom]

Thanks, it's not easy with the negative stigma around projects started through ICO's and just being a new sportsbook on top of that. Not saying some of that stigma isn't deserved, but I've made an honest effort to give legit factual info and raw numbers when possible...even outside the scope of Wagerr and more in the realm of general crypto. As with this link I posted in the big crypto discussion thread here, which allows anyone with a bit of math knowledge to gain their own true insight into the whole ICO thing -

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...zvgvMucI56uy-g

Regarding the 10 million raised, it was actually decided to keep it as much as possible in crypto...which in hindsight was a smart move - since the raise occurred around May/June 2017. Aside from that the WGR current market cap is valued over $30 million which I would hope provides at least some assurance/comfort for the vast majority of bettors.

This one is the real deal, compare it to other crypto-gambling projects...most of which have some form of centralization anyway so that makes them hardly different than a Nitrogen or a 5Dimes-style network. Wagerr is cracking the problem that these other teams said was simply too difficult.

Looking at the list of Wagerr's contributing devs on github and other projects they've contributed to, it's pretty clear there is some serious talent that would be nearly impossible to replicate anywhere else(at this point it would take up into the 9-figures to feel comfortable doing so). And it's all being made open-source section by section.

Literally a gift to the gambling world, as I said earlier -since this needs to be stressed- it's about trying to guarantee some essential and reasonable basic rights for gamblers worldwide, through code and consensus.

Likely as we saw with btc(but to a lesser extent these days), it will take time for people to understand just how useful it can be and the myriad of ways to build upon it. A sportsbook simply cannot be run on btc directly, fees would be massive and you'd have to place bets hours beforehand and pray they get accepted. So Wagerr is the next best thing, since people can easily settle up with btc later anyway...saving users' fees and helping the bitcoin network stay a little less clogged with lots of smaller transactions.


Edit - I forgot to add that you can find a ton of discussion about it on their Telegram here - https://t.me/wagerrcoin

Or their Discord, which I've helped to build and mod - https://discord.gg/tkcXS34


Lastly, don't feel like a bystander. The great thing about these kinds of networks is that they are essentially ran by the users. This is about as far from a corporate gambling network as you can get. Everyone's voice counts, those who contribute are rewarded fairly, and for the most part we're all just peers. The founder, David - is probably one of the nicest people you'll meet and quit his medical practice to contribute full-time. He's notoriously 'economical' to put it politely lol, and still happily driving his old Kia.

yes. this is great and win/win as the bets help to build the coin and as holders of the coin this is what you would want anyway. thanks for the added info. i will check it out and i agree this is something all gamblers should root for.

[lotuspod]

zero market person-to-person betting in the USA

The real numbers say different (link below), and we're not even to p2p or the actual wallet yet. This will only get bigger in the coming months/years. If you had looked a bit closer at the project, you'd see it's about far more than just p2p betting anyway.


https://explorer.wagerr.com/#/betevents

There are some serious advantages over centralized betting networks, blows my mind that some bettors could be so actively against bringing the latest tech to the betting industry and establishing some basic rights. Though I could see why certain people who stood to lose out on something - middlemen/escrows/etc could be actively against it. Not suggesting anyone here is really, but it's obviously quite plausible given enough sample size.

[danshan11]

what are the advantages over centralized betting networks?

[jimmy007oc]

what are the advantages over centralized betting networks?

google is free. do research yourself, leave them alone. Did they scam your money or something?

[danshan11]

do you think the question is inappropriate in some way, if so please clarify

[jimmy007oc]

what are the advantages over centralized betting networks?

To me, one of the advantage over centralized bookies is grading the ticket. I'm using both 5D and Nitrogen at the same time. After the game ended, I have to wait to get my bet graded. Especially at Nitrogen where you have to wait hours for them to grade your bets. With Wagerr, game was graded and paid out almost instant. Moreover, no human error involved during the process. Wagerr doesn't have a user friendly at this point, but they are working on HTML5 interface. It will come out Q1/2019. I hope i answer your question.

[bigtymer56]

To me, one of the advantage over centralized bookies is grading the ticket. I'm using both 5D and Nitrogen at the same time. After the game ended, I have to wait to get my bet graded. Especially at Nitrogen where you have to wait hours for them to grade your bets. With Wagerr, game was graded and paid out almost instant. Moreover, no human error involved during the process. Wagerr doesn't have a user friendly at this point, but they are working on HTML5 interface. It will come out Q1/2019. I hope i answer your question.

The counter I would have to that is they are only doing a couple of events per day, so it's easy to grade instantly. I get the impression people are still involved in the grading process. Lotus can you provide some insight to grading process currently?

[lotuspod]

The counter I would have to that is they are only doing a couple of events per day, so it's easy to grade instantly. I get the impression people are still involved in the grading process. Lotus can you provide some insight to grading process currently?

Oracles are one of the next steps, but for now yeah the training wheels are still on and still some oversight. The oracle side needs to be tested thoroughly, and the team has been getting some valuable info from having a sort of trial period like this.

However, with oracles grading events autonomously - that shouldn't really slow down grading and payouts by a meaningful amount...no matter how many events. ~1 minute block times are much more suitable for this than the ~10 min for btc, if it were even possible to run something like this directly on btc. Another reason why running it on its own chain/coin is really the only viable option, since the team can adjust all of these core settings to best suit betting.

[danshan11]

I think books grade pretty quickly. I think the only time there is a delay it is usually a late event or something away from the big markets, but 99% get graded really quickly. this may be an advantage but I dont really see grading as a real problem in general. I also fear the error system, for example I use fairlay a ton and I had a 3.5 over FG bet that got graded a win but they only kicked 3 fgs in reg time and the 4th winner was in OT , normally that would be a win but the bet specifically maybe by error said 3.5 in regular time OT not included, anyway it was graded wrong and it took forever to even get my coins back besides the winnings. Auto grading has its faults and on the server side, one big issue is not the grading, its the api or system we get the scoring from, they make mistakes and enter data wrong and it screws up grading. I played with it on the api auto grading my google sheets systems and you would be shocked the number of errors. fat fingers put OBJ with 9 catches and if you settle too quickly before it corrects you got the wrong guy paid and finalized

[Optional]

It's a consensus system. So in that situation if enough nodes vote to grade the bet, then that's the result. Reality is a not a factor. Just what people believe the result is.

If enough people vote to grade fast and turn out wrong. Ce La Vie.

[danshan11]

It's a consensus system. So in that situation if enough nodes vote to grade the bet, then that's the result. Reality is a not a factor. Just what people believe the result is.

If enough people vote to grade fast and turn out wrong. Ce La Vie.

but do you think grading is even an issue? I rarely have a grading issue and the few issues I have had I would not say that is a deal breaker for that book for me.

[danshan11]

It's a consensus system. So in that situation if enough nodes vote to grade the bet, then that's the result. Reality is a not a factor. Just what people believe the result is.

If enough people vote to grade fast and turn out wrong. Ce La Vie.

is it possible under that system to be manipulated? I mean like if a guy controlled too many nodes? or is that like trying to solve a private key, possible but 1 in 1949490594048590449569 possibility.

[Optional]

but do you think grading is even an issue? I rarely have a grading issue and the few issues I have had I would not say that is a deal breaker for that book for me.

I average maybe 30 bets a week, so grading isn't an issue for me.

I understand people who want instant grading to put the money back in play fast though.

This system is better than centralized grading imho. But agree its not really something that would make me jump on board personally.

is it possible under that system to be manipulated? I mean like if a guy controlled too many nodes? or is that like trying to solve a private key, possible but 1 in 1949490594048590449569 possibility.

I think it's about diversity of node owners that creates the protection from manipulation.

Theoretically I imagine it could happen. And if the network does not become popular it is more likely.

But for me, not worried about it. It would cost a fortune to get control of enough nodes and then you would get one shot at making a score which would ruin the network and kill your node investment.

[danshan11]

using fairlay I am doing over 200 bets a day but I keep a decent roll in so it does not affect me but I understand people want quick grading and want or need to turn their cash over quickly to generate good ROI if they have an edge.
I can see the benefit but I dont see the issue in general.

how do they handle errors if an error is even possible or is that in the works (probably)?

[danshan11]

I know everyone thinks I have this deep seated hate for wagerr and that is just not true, I feel like lotus is not a good rep of it and has been evasive and rude to me. I think ICOS are not good and I hate that they destroy the credibility of coins in general, I guess it happens to all new things, people create something awesome and then 999999 people come in and make some BS attempt at it and ruin it for a large portion of society, half of the btc fall has been because people cant decipher between crap like bitconnect and bitcoin, so it messes up both of them.

I dont think there is a market for a product like wagerr honestly the margin has to be razor thin and all the reasons we need it are the same reasons we cannot have it
low fees, impossible because people want to get paid for their efforts and all books requires efforts
anonymous is impossible you got to get your cash out and only way to do that is through aml/kyc regulated exchanges
also Pinnacle kinda provides a service of security for your average bettor, like fairlay and wagerr and any other exchange you can bet 10000000 on federer -1000 because you know he is gonna win but people like pinnacle bring that back to reality because they say yeah he will win but only 98% of the time not 99.9% and that saves the average guy a few bucks! I mean you see it everyday, people use books all day long that charge a dime when that same bet is available at a nickel. the market should dictate price but its not fair just like Buffett eats our profits up because he has more knowledge of what is true value compared to me on etrade making my own choices off candles LOL

[Optional]

I know everyone thinks I have this deep seated hate for wagerr

I think you like arguing and trying to think for yourself rather than follow the crowd. (but just don't get when it's time to stop)

I doubt even Lotuspod "hates" you, even if he is obviously tired of the picking.


You asked before what my positon was. It seems way too expensive to me. But everything else is fine, apart from how damn long it is taking.

Lotuspod says fees can be voted down. That will be a test of how unbiased/fair the voting system is. If they don't move down, gamblers interests are not being represented properly.

[danshan11]

I think you are poor at choosing words, you could have said all that without the little knock, its tacky.

Wagerr is expensive and they dont seem concerned with that and that is questionable for sure. I think holding wagerr coins could be risky too, so I would have to include the cost of flipping that coin out all the time.

[Optional]

I think you are poor at choosing words, you could have said all that without the little knock, its tacky.

Wagerr is expensive and they dont seem concerned with that and that is questionable for sure. I think holding wagerr coins could be risky too, so I would have to include the cost of flipping that coin out all the time.

Oh well, thats me.

I would not make the knock if i didn't give a shit btw. I don't engage with useless posters.

yeah the private coin is a concern too. Lotuspod seems to think it could not work at all without it. I don't know, so am just sitting back and watching for now.


If it's 100% open source, no reason you, I or anyone else can not just wait until it's built and then do a "better" version based off it too.

[danshan11]

Oh well, thats me.

I would not make the knock if i didn't give a shit btw. I don't engage with useless posters.

yeah the private coin is a concern too. Lotuspod seems to think it could not work at all without it. I don't know, so am just sitting back and watching for now.


If it's 100% open source, no reason you, I or anyone else can not just wait until it's built and then do a "better" version based off it too.

good idea but the issue is not enough margin in betting to pay even the lunch go getter guy! Margins are razor thin!

[danshan11]

they also say without the coin, LOL, I can translate that for you but I dont need to you know why, "YOU KNOW WHY"