US banks and offshore gambling

**robertg** · 02-02-10, 05:06 PM

great topic, and the new laws and increased enforcement have me very paranoid. something about having to deposit a canadian check in the ATM, or having a ewalletexpress debit hit my bank account always
makes nervous until everything is credited or debited from my account. I've been useing my local
a lot more lately, to avoid such worries, but he has 20 cent baseball line so that won't work once basketball is over.

About 3 mos ago my checkcard from compass quit working at any of the books, so I've converted to ******** for most deposits, but thats a huge PIA, NOT TO MENTION I FEEL LIKE A LOSER EVEN WALKING INTO AN ACE CASH EXPRESS.

**frankthetank** · 02-02-10, 05:12 PM

money gram and western union are options at a lot of books.

**THEGREAT30** · 02-02-10, 05:15 PM

I don't even trust depositing a check related to sports gambling with my bank and have never and will never try to deposit money from my bank in any form to a sportsbook, good day

**JW Cash** · 02-02-10, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by robertg

great topic, and the new laws and increased enforcement have me very paranoid. something about having to deposit a canadian check in the ATM, or having a ewalletexpress debit hit my bank account always
makes nervous until everything is credited or debited from my account. I've been useing my local
a lot more lately, to avoid such worries, but he has 20 cent baseball line so that won't work once basketball is over.

About 3 mos ago my checkcard from compass quit working at any of the books, so I've converted to ******** for most deposits, but thats a huge PIA, NOT TO MENTION I FEEL LIKE A LOSER EVEN WALKING INTO AN ACE CASH EXPRESS.

I fund my ******** completely online........using Paypal

Just go to Add Bank in Paypal and set up the issuing bank form ********

Then add funds to paypal from your bank and put those funds in
your ******** acct , again thru Paypal

**JW Cash** · 02-02-10, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by THEGREAT30

I don't even trust depositing a check related to sports gambling with my bank and have never and will never try to deposit money from my bank in any form to a sportsbook, good day

..how do you cash your checks that you get from the sportsbooks?

**Smurf71** · 02-02-10, 05:21 PM

** and **

Let say you are a pro player that plays in 15 books and you win average 3k a month in every one of them. Now you need to cash out 45k through ** or **. Limit in most books is at $800 level per transaction and it costs you $75. Your payout will cost you for about 4000 dollars plus you have to live on ** or ** location. That is my point - ** and ** are not serious long term options.

**robertg** · 02-02-10, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by JW Cash

I fund my ******** completely online........using Paypal

Just go to Add Bank in Paypal and set up the issuing bank form ********

Then add funds to paypal from your bank and put those funds in
your ******** acct , again thru Paypal

I didn't know that. Good info, thanks I'll do that.

**THEGREAT30** · 02-02-10, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by JW Cash

..how do you cash your checks that you get from the sportsbooks?

I don't do checks. I have slipped and done money orders which are processed the same, but they must come from U.S. So, I guess I should say I don't do foreign checks

**JW Cash** · 02-02-10, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by THEGREAT30

I don't do checks. I have slipped and done money orders which are processed the same, but they must come from U.S. So, I guess I should say I don't do foreign checks

...just trying to understand this.....

so, say you make a withdrawal from an offshore book and tell
them you want a money order..................

..the money order they issue you is from the U.S.

**THEGREAT30** · 02-02-10, 05:43 PM

Yes, I will ask is it a U.S. money order or can they get such. If they say no then I will have to try other method which is usually ** or **. I usually withdraw $2500 or less at a time. A+ books have ** withdrawals up to this amount. Also A+ books like Jamaica have pre-paid debit card payouts as well. I have never taken a check payout from book.

**JW Cash** · 02-02-10, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by THEGREAT30

Yes, I will ask is it a U.S. money order or can they get such. If they say no then I will have to try other method which is usually ** or **. I usually withdraw $2500 or less at a time. A+ books have ** withdrawals up to this amount. Also A+ books like Jamaica have pre-paid debit card payouts as well. I have never taken a check payout from book.

It would be Great if they could put the funds back in your ******** Card..

**THEGREAT30** · 02-02-10, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by JW Cash

It would be Great if they could put the funds back in your ******** Card..

I agree. Never understood why they could not. All they need is to make a ******** account or some ******** accounts, because you can transfer person to person via ********, like if I had a card I could transfer you money if you had a card and vice versa.

**lumpy19** · 02-02-10, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by robertg

I didn't know that. Good info, thanks I'll do that.

I did this once and then got an email from paypal cancelling that option because my ******** card wasn't considered an official bank acct

**JW Cash** · 02-02-10, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by lumpy19

I did this once and then got an email from paypal cancelling that option because my ******** card wasn't considered an official bank acct

I actually just did a transfer and it went ok....

**DoubleEM** · 02-02-10, 07:29 PM

I updated my Paypal account (which I haven't used in years) last weekend to try this. How long did it take to get funded from your bank account to your sportsbook account? Paypal says 3-5 business days to get from your bank account to Paypal. ******** says 2-3 business days from Paypal to ********. Then, I'm assuming no delay from ******** to your sportsbook. Is this accurate? Kind of a long process, but once my Paypal account is loaded, it shouldn't be too bad.

**tltaylor89** · 02-02-10, 10:54 PM

Money Orders are life savers

**John Dough** · 02-03-10, 09:23 AM

I am a small-time pro and I take almost all of my withdrawals via check, haven't had a problem in my many years of experience. I guess if I was trying to cash out the hypothetical 45K/month in your example things would be different, but I don't even think the average pro achieves that. Most people can live on 45K/year, lol.

IMO, your post is paranoia-laden. Banks aren't even required to enforce the banking guidelines that came out of the UIGEA yet thanks to a recent deadline extension. Furthermore, the UIGEA bans the sending of funds, not receiving. Banks don't give a crap if you receive a small check, even if it's Canadian (and most Canadian checks are even payable through a US branch or bank partner of the issuing bank).

As long as you pay your taxes, the IRS doesn't have a problem either. You list gambling as a profession, submit your wins and losses, and pay what you owe. They only care about tax evasion. There's even a law preventing the IRS from using your tax return to alert another government agency to possible criminal activity (not that online gambling is even illegal). In theory, you can list drug sales on your tax return, pay taxes on your income, and the IRS is forbidden from passing this info along to the police/FBI/whoever.

Short answer... relax.

**oiler** · 02-03-10, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by Smurf71

Would anybody share opinions about banking topic in US that is related to offshore gambling. Well pros would call what they do "sports investing" but US banks Wachovia, Chase, Bank of America are still paranoid as much as I have heard. Laws are strict and IRS is a deadly shark that can freeze all your accounts in a second.
Good pro player plays in 10-15 books and probably receives and deposits about 15 checks per month to his account plus wire transactions. It has been debated , which one is better wire or check and yet there is no clear answer. They say that it is wise move to keep wire transfers under 10k and courier checks under 5k , it keeps away attention. Books using third party banks while cutting checks or processing money transfers so banks in US don't get too paranoid. When that happens it is bad news. One can always use ** or ** but those limits are crazy low and money expensive.

In Europe and rest of the world one can use Netteller or Moneybookers a cross the board and it makes it easy. As always, if you happen to live in US then you are in trouble or at least you have to create accounts in 3-4 banks to create leverage so all the money will reach your accounts with no hassle and attention from IRS. Good citizen would declare his income and pay his taxes but that does not make system less paranoid about offshore gambling. The whole thing may seem funny as if there is only winning out there but truth is- about 3% of us have that "problem" in regular bases. Maybe banks are not paranoid, it's just me . Well that would be great news

i use chase bank to deposit my checks and have never had a problem,maybe its because my sportsbook has a bank from canada to write the checks out

**Fishhead** · 02-03-10, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by John Dough

I am a small-time pro and I take almost all of my withdrawals via check, haven't had a problem in my many years of experience. I guess if I was trying to cash out the hypothetical 45K/month in your example things would be different, but I don't even think the average pro achieves that. Most people can live on 45K/year, lol.

IMO, your post is paranoia-laden. Banks aren't even required to enforce the banking guidelines that came out of the UIGEA yet thanks to a recent deadline extension. Furthermore, the UIGEA bans the sending of funds, not receiving. Banks don't give a crap if you receive a small check, even if it's Canadian (and most Canadian checks are even payable through a US branch or bank partner of the issuing bank).

As long as you pay your taxes, the IRS doesn't have a problem either. You list gambling as a profession, submit your wins and losses, and pay what you owe. They only care about tax evasion. There's even a law preventing the IRS from using your tax return to alert another government agency to possible criminal activity (not that online gambling is even illegal). In theory, you can list drug sales on your tax return, pay taxes on your income, and the IRS is forbidden from passing this info along to the police/FBI/whoever.

Short answer... relax.

**G's pks** · 02-03-10, 12:16 PM

John Dough..you need to post more often...

**Smurf71** · 02-03-10, 02:12 PM

First reasonable reply. That indicates that things actually are working and checks traveling so there is no reason for paranoia. I think books have found the way to operate in a fashion that US banks have no problem with. How much is the monthly average, tell you the truth, one can go up to 100k pretty easily. After that you can probably see many doors closing cause books don't like to get their asses kicked. But there truth is- if you are pro, you better move to Vegas and combine your Vegas action with offshore. I don't know how many offshore gamblers actually declaring their real income , cause even if you show losing numbers, it is pretty hard for IRS to keep track. On Vegas wins, when you keep them under 10K , you don't have to fill out paperwork but I have feeling IRS has a lot better outlook on that. So smart move is to declare and pay your taxes in what ever fashion you feel is right. Main point of the story was to debate if US Banks have problems with payout forms that offshore books are offering today. I still think that one has to keep sums low cause everything counts in large amounts.

**bookie** · 02-05-10, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by DoubleEM

I updated my Paypal account (which I haven't used in years) last weekend to try this. How long did it take to get funded from your bank account to your sportsbook account? Paypal says 3-5 business days to get from your bank account to Paypal. ******** says 2-3 business days from Paypal to ********. Then, I'm assuming no delay from ******** to your sportsbook. Is this accurate? Kind of a long process, but once my Paypal account is loaded, it shouldn't be too bad.

Let us know how that goes. Would also like to know amounts that can be deposited through a ******** card.

**Thremp** · 02-05-10, 06:25 AM

lol at winning 45k a month and sweating this stuff

**thespeculator** · 02-05-10, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Smurf71

First reasonable reply. That indicates that things actually are working and checks traveling so there is no reason for paranoia. I think books have found the way to operate in a fashion that US banks have no problem with. How much is the monthly average, tell you the truth, one can go up to 100k pretty easily. After that you can probably see many doors closing cause books don't like to get their asses kicked. But there truth is- if you are pro, you better move to Vegas and combine your Vegas action with offshore. I don't know how many offshore gamblers actually declaring their real income , cause even if you show losing numbers, it is pretty hard for IRS to keep track. On Vegas wins, when you keep them under 10K , you don't have to fill out paperwork but I have feeling IRS has a lot better outlook on that. So smart move is to declare and pay your taxes in what ever fashion you feel is right. Main point of the story was to debate if US Banks have problems with payout forms that offshore books are offering today. I still think that one has to keep sums low cause everything counts in large amounts.

did you say 100k a month or did you mean a year , i would think they would show you the door at even 20k a year, i am certainly no expert, but i have heard places like 5 dimes kick people out at 60k, just heard it on the forum, not from experience

**thespeculator** · 02-05-10, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by Thremp

lol at winning 45k a month and sweating this stuff

thremp you win 45k a month from one book or multiple, is this an amount the books find acceptable from a player to win

**Smurf71** · 02-05-10, 02:52 PM

Well numbers are just numbers. You gonna see doors closing sooner or later if you are winning. Recreational books will do that no matter what.I remember Justin told once that Sports Interaction shows you a white flag on 20k level. They don't confiscate your money like Sportsbook.com often does. They will pay but kick you out. Smart player creates leverage and stays unnoticed. In Vegas they will also kick you out but over there pain threshold is higher. I hope that over the time we gonna see more exchange type books that don't sweat when you win a little. I do also hope that maybe one day Pinny will come back to US. After all that is the biggest market in the world and they certainly miss us too.

**jackkkk2009** · 02-05-10, 05:55 PM

can i deposit my checks from online sportsbooks to my ******** debit card? since they have that option..

**JW Cash** · 02-05-10, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by Smurf71

Well numbers are just numbers. You gonna see doors closing sooner or later if you are winning. Recreational books will do that no matter what.I remember Justin told once that Sports Interaction shows you a white flag on 20k level. They don't confiscate your money like Sportsbook.com often does. They will pay but kick you out. Smart player creates leverage and stays unnoticed. In Vegas they will also kick you out but over there pain threshold is higher. I hope that over the time we gonna see more exchange type books that don't sweat when you win a little. I do also hope that maybe one day Pinny will come back to US. After all that is the biggest market in the world and they certainly miss us too.

Smurf...How do you " create leverage and stay unnoticed " ?

**Waiting4Godot** · 02-05-10, 09:06 PM

You "create leverage" by winning 45k per month, but losing 50k per month...

**Smurf71** · 02-06-10, 01:07 PM

I do? You seem to know a lot. I don't lose! But then again, I'm not here to prove anything . It is a debate about US banking operations and online gambling ( well I call it investing) . That's all it ever was.

**DoubleEM** · 02-09-10, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by bookie

Let us know how that goes. Would also like to know amounts that can be deposited through a ******** card.

I initiated the deposit to Paypal from my bank this morning (2/9) at 10am. I'll report back as each step is complete. My goal is to load money for as cheap as possible, all online.

This whole process from bank account to book should only cost me max $1-$2 for each book I put money in. From Bank Account->Paypal->******** is free. Then I'm unsure what the fee will be for the transaction from ******** to the book. It may be free as well, but it may not.

I could make a deposit direct from my bank account to ********, but I'd rather have another layer of protection between that step, which is Paypal.

To answer your last question, from the ******** site:Maximum and minimum loads may vary according to card type and location. Please call Customer Service for more details.

**xxxvince** · 02-10-10, 11:31 PM

move to vegas if u are paranoid abt gambling online

**uva3021** · 02-10-10, 11:47 PM

prepaid **** cards in the usa are the easiest way to deposit, and withdrawal

**Smurf71** · 02-11-10, 12:01 AM

I will by the way , thank you! It is on my to do list and there isa perfect time for everything. Paranoia is useful up to some extent . Offshore handicapping has it's charms but it also has it's burdens for US residents ( cause lot of institutions have closed their doors for us) and this forum is a perfect place to speak up. That way we share opinions and we learn from each other. Information is the most valuable commodity in this thing, wouldn't you agree? After all there is no need to send anybody anywhere. I would consider this place as a league of mind like gentlemen who share the info and generally are verbally correct towards one another