pinnacle source of wealth

[Vyasports]

aye aye Sir

[Sawyer]

Asking source of wealth is ridicilous. This is against human rights. We must boycott bookmakers who ask this. Money is mine, this is none of your business.

[vk.sab]

Because criminals deposit to big sportsbook like Pinnacle just to lose it all in bets.. that's very criminal thing to do...

Source of Wealth is mega stupid thing to ask for. Its like almost impossible to have all your source documented.. I mean over a time I have used 10s of bookmakers, invested in many different cryptocurrencies or other commodities.. I could not even think about half of this, where I did get money I am betting with from...

But it seems like it's kind of new regulatory thing to ask for, because I was asked for same on one of crypto exchanges, so I decided to move my crypto to cold storage and never use that exchange again...

And I will deal with any bookmaker asking for such stupid things same way.. I will say bye bye ..

I have no problem providing my ID, residence proof or anything like this, but there should be boundaries where all this KYC bullshit has to stop. Now they can ask even probably for your grandma health records and if you do not provide them, they simply confiscated your funds? ...

[Limited]

I think SoW might eventually prove the death knell for multi accounters.

That would be actually good for us non multi accounters.

[jazzmonkey]

Yes this, keep betting records.

That won't satisfy everyone though, some will accept betting (Betfair for instance) and some will not. And what they accept from betting also differs, there are some that accept from other named accounts and some which will not - syndicates will invariably run off accounts in each individual's name so this is problematic.

From the UK side, as I understand it, the Gambling Commission sweeps through bookmakers one by one, so just because something is accepted now (before the sweep) does not necessarily mean that it will be accepted afterwards. I think this might be especially relevant when attempting to prove sustainability by using winnings from betting.

I think SoW might eventually prove the death knell for multi accounters.

[Limited]

I have my records, but The Greek has thousands of bets, probably around 50 payouts and little less deposits. And there are other bookies that aren't around any more or not available any more due to later geo-restrictions.

Still terrible or impossible to find all these data if you are being asked today. My records probably can't serve as a proof.

[Optional]

This source of income is ridiculous request. 10y ago my uncle gave me some cash, I was studding, my grandmother gave me some money also, deposited that, starting in betting industry I was scalping bonuses back then, doing some good profits, became pro.... the rest are winnings. So what kind of source of income can I give them. Sometimes the rulers really have no clue. And when you place 100k bets with hundreds if not thousands of deposits/payouts. How will you provide evidence for 10y back. Totally stupid.

They might ask you to get statements from other books to prove anything you say.

If I was in your position I would have a plan to deal with it. If you are betting more than a regular income earner can support it gets more likely every year that you will be asked.

At the very least I'd make sure you keep accurate records of all betting so you have something concrete to give a solicitor if ever needed.

And if it is by any company using Sumsub (or similar services), you could find it affects a bunch of books.

[Limited]

This source of income is ridiculous request. 10y ago my uncle gave me some cash, I was studding, my grandmother gave me some money also, deposited that, starting in betting industry I was scalping bonuses back then, doing some good profits, became pro.... the rest are winnings. So what kind of source of income can I give them. Sometimes the rulers really have no clue. And when you place 100k bets with hundreds if not thousands of deposits/payouts. How will you provide evidence for 10y back. Totally stupid.

[floki]

matchbook emailed me last February about documents, source of income, wanted documents for all my deposits, even small deposits, gave me 7-10 days, some of my deposits were over 15 yrs ago, I had no documents.

I just withdrew my balance, all of it, then bought bitcoins after it crashed, will sell them in 2025, a yr after the 4th halving.

[Optional]

Had this, assume triggered by net positive deposits.

Plus this: https://www.sbcnews.co.uk/technology...c-sumsub-deal/

Thanks for posting.

That Sumsub company can be a bit of a b***h to get through verification once they flag you.

If you have ever reversed a card payment they get people too. Surprised we have not heard about more people being booted from Pinny since taking them on.

[jazzmonkey]

Plus this: https://www.sbcnews.co.uk/technology...c-sumsub-deal/

[jazzmonkey]

Had this, assume triggered by net positive deposits.

[Choi The Gamer]

This is the new sh*t; the source of wealth. Source is my a**. Maybe i'm a drug dealer, maybe i'm selling women, who cares? Just take the f*kking money and shut up. F*kking bookmakers.

It seems like those good old days are over. Today no drug dealers are allowed into reputable gambling establishments lol

[cashin81]

People here used to go to casinos change thousands in cash and ask for cheque without really playing anything.
or dump thousands into the roulette machines and cash out into card

[cashin81]

This was on TV here, dude stole money to bet. Then he was asking Ladbrokes to pay it back as it was stolen..

https://bettingplanet.com/ladbrokes-under-fire-for-vip-gambling-with-stolen-funds/

[Optional]

I think a bookmaker being required to ask for such personal information is a bad system too.

I think the UK model of how bookmakers have to address AML issues is very bad for players in general.

But given Pinnacle have already tried to get a UK license once and are thought to plan another attempt, they have little choice but to follow the protocols.

Every license issuer in the world requires their books to follow AML procedures btw. It's only offshore that hadn't been infected by this.

[RedApples]

Apr 2 2020 - The Gambling Commission has ordered casino company Caesars Entertainment to pay a record £13 million penalty for failures regarding social responsibility and money laundering

https://www.racingpost.com/news/caes...mission/430677

Still didn't answer my question but I did find an answer to my question in the details within the article so TY. The one quote below directly answers my question. The rest is all ......................

So money laundering that wouldn't have otherwise been caught if for not asking for source of income, and checks on a politically exposed person. So they are trying to combat against all types of crime and thus will need to report it to the government. As was my question 2 posts back.

Sucks to be gambling in the UK. Granted if you're doing illegal stuff you should be vetted out and caught, but this seems like a massive overreach after the fact.


'Money-laundering failures included not checking source of funds for a customer who deposited £3.5m and lost £1.6m in three months. Another politically exposed person lost £795,000 in just over a year.'

[Optional]

Show me a case

Apr 2 2020 - The Gambling Commission has ordered casino company Caesars Entertainment to pay a record £13 million penalty for failures regarding social responsibility and money laundering

https://www.racingpost.com/news/caesars-entertainment-fined-record-13-million-by-gambling-commission/430677

[Alfie White]

https://calvinayre.com/2020/04/08/business/uk-gambling-regulator-reasons-matchbook-license-suspension/

Matchbook got their license suspended and next year everything will be even tighter due to changes in legislations all over the place. So acting like sawyer will get you nowhere.

[RedApples]

If you are using the proceeds of crime mostly.

....

Show me a case where a book got in trouble for not asking for source of income because funds came from a source that was not allowed or unsupported and why that was wrong to do so. Or explain how any of it actually makes sense.

Also Optional, waiting to hear your response in the other thread regarding how you got to 3 mil active users. I am genuinely confused.

[Optional]

I don't understand this source of wealth thing. What are they trying to figure out?

If you are using the proceeds of crime mostly.

[RedApples]

I don't understand this source of wealth thing. What are they trying to figure out? I could understand if they needed to see that you were solvent enough to be placing such high bets, and thus disallowing you to play, much like the case with Pokerstars and FullTilt when you needed to be given special privs to play the nosebleed games there- both for integrity of game reasons but mostly for solvency reasons, and this is likewise similar in other markets.

But aside from that, what gives? I'm with the other posters. Unless they are requesting and there is a law that you must be compliant with state and federal laws, no back taxes, or something of the like- what are they looking for? So I'm a drug dealer (I'm not) and I got tons of bitcoin sent to me for selling weed. No paper trail. You can keep my money? You are supposed to report me to the government?

Do. Not. Understand. Don't @ me with 'they are allowed to ask for this' and 'this is the rule'. Show me a case where a book got in trouble for not asking for source of income because funds came from a source that was not allowed or unsupported and why that was wrong to do so. Or explain how any of it actually makes sense.

[Sawyer]

This is the new sh*t; the source of wealth. Source is my a**. Maybe i'm a drug dealer, maybe i'm selling women, who cares? Just take the f*kking money and shut up. F*kking bookmakers.

[Alfie White]

I am saying that they are obliged to understand where the betting funds are coming from and they (and every other licensed bookmaker) can request this at their sole discretion. Take a look what happened to Matchbook early this year when they have had their license suspended due to bad KYC/AML practice.

Second part of your question is somewhat confusing and it is not that simple to answer that - nobody can be sure.

[Choi The Gamer]

It can be that you have deposited substantial amount with them and they are now requesting you to "back up" that you "can afford" to gamble with that amount. That is standard KYC procedure; you can send them any proof that would confirm you have substantial amount of funds on you.

Are you saying they would like to know that you are effectively gambling with 5% of your Net worth as opposed to 80%?

Are you sure these types of questions are not connected to having to comply with local governments efforts to prevent money laundering/tax evasion on a global scale?

[Optional]

I'd guess he has deposited similar amounts before.

[Camma23]

Great news.

Would love to know what triggered the questions.

I "know" that you are a genuine sharp bettor and I would doubt you tried to do anything wrong by Pinny.

Imo simply the amount

[Alfie White]

He just deposited too much in short span of time, must be that.

Glad you worked it out!

[Optional]

Got an email from them.
Account has been verified.
So bank statement and neteller transactions are enough for future guys who will be asked, it seems

Great news.

Would love to know what triggered the questions.

I "know" that you are a genuine sharp bettor and I would doubt you tried to do anything wrong by Pinny.

[winner9]

can you elaborate on the amount? Ive never heard pinny asking these questions before...
and can you tell us when did they asked you exactly...did u win big or made big withdrawal? or just high amount depo

the last deposit was ca. 10k eur via neteller
in last time i couldn't withdraw some funds, so i guess it's only about the deposit which was maden

[Vyasports]

Bulgaria @Optional ,

Yes, in last time i deposited high amount at pinnacle and lost it, anyway will update the thread if they accept my bank deposit etc.

can you elaborate on the amount? Ive never heard pinny asking these questions before...
and can you tell us when did they asked you exactly...did u win big or made big withdrawal? or just high amount depo

[winner9]

Got an email from them.
Account has been verified.
So bank statement and neteller transactions are enough for future guys who will be asked, it seems

[winner9]

This is indeed strange that pinnacle is asking source of wealth but however, everything has been provided what they wished, so I hope they will verify it finally and I will be able to withdraw funds.

Gonna keep informed the thread

[Krashman]

Pinnacle must suspect money laundering, since they are ok with arbing.

[Ruifgalmeida]

That looks something that Betfair would do because of regulation, never ever seen Pinnacle do that, I actually think that this is unfair, my source of income is none of their business, which goes against their model of don't asking questions to someone who wants to bet