Pinnacle Sports set to exit UK market ahead of new UK Gambling Law implementation

[jjgold]

Kind of silly to extend it

Something might be up

[superhans]

Its the law suit. If they lose, they will appeal..... this will go on for months now

http://www.flushdraw.net/news/uk-gambling-act-effective-date-moved-november-1/

[jjgold]

Thanks guys for updates

I am rooting for UK players here and staying at Pinnacle

[TheLock]

Gambol

[Seto]

1 more month

[Terminators]

Why is it worth Pinnacle opening a separate book in Australia, but not doing the same in the UK where turnover would be greater?

[jjgold]

The book in Australia there Are doing doesn't seem to be that good at least that is what I hear

[Hareeba!]

The book in Australia there Are doing doesn't seem to be that good at least that is what I hear

From a punter's perspective I just don't see any value currently in using Pinnaclebet.com.au rather than PinnacleSports but according to the guy who runs the show in Australia they are already doing huge business. He claims more than any other bookie in Australia! And what's more he says they haven't officially launched yet (indeed racing is still "coming soon") so they've not yet commenced to advertise.

[Terminators]

From a punter's perspective I just don't see any value currently in using Pinnaclebet.com.au rather than PinnacleSports but according to the guy who runs the show in Australia they are already doing huge business. He claims more than any other bookie in Australia! And what's more he says they haven't officially launched yet (indeed racing is still "coming soon") so they've not yet commenced to advertise.

I call absolute BS.

90% of aussie punters wouldn't even know pinny existed, much less pinny aus. Even if they did they wouldn't change from existing corporates because they love the bells, whistles and special offers. 1-91 vs 1-93 means nothing to them.

As for pros and semi-pros, why would they move from international pinny to aus pinny with pretty much no benefits, less markets, no multis and withdrawals only once pw.

I love pinny, use it all the time but unless their horse racing model has strong benefits I'm seeing very little reason to change at this stage.



That said, it deflects from the original question of why set up in Aus with a licence but not the UK?

[superhans]

Why is it worth Pinnacle opening a separate book in Australia, but not doing the same in the UK where turnover would be greater?

Think its down to ownership... UKGC requires full disclosure of the ownership structure. Pinnies don't seem keen on this

[Hareeba!]

I call absolute BS.

90% of aussie punters wouldn't even know pinny existed, much less pinny aus. Even if they did they wouldn't change from existing corporates because they love the bells, whistles and special offers. 1-91 vs 1-93 means nothing to them.

As for pros and semi-pros, why would they move from international pinny to aus pinny with pretty much no benefits, less markets, no multis and withdrawals only once pw.

I love pinny, use it all the time but unless their horse racing model has strong benefits I'm seeing very little reason to change at this stage.

I couldn't agree more about why one would elect to move to the Pinnaclebet before the racing is a reality. Only negatives by comparison.

But as for serious sports punters, most of whom have been barred or severely limited at the corporates, I'm sure they are aware of Pinnacle and will eventually move to Pinnaclebet if the racing offering is truly competitive. But it seems rather far fetched to believe the turnover claim the guy told me last week.

[jjgold]

Why would anyone bet serious money on horses??

Are Aussie Horses more beatable than USA where takeouts range from 15% to 25% per bet??

[Hareeba!]

Why would anyone bet serious money on horses??

Are Aussie Horses more beatable than USA where takeouts range from 15% to 25% per bet??

You really ought to come to Australia an get an education JJ.

Without any doubt, knowledgeable horse players make a lot more money than sports punters if they can get their bets down.

Even using Betfair alone you don't pay anything like the vig you're talking.

US sounds like utter crap for horse betting but Australia, UK, HK, Singapore and Japan are ripe for the plucking.

But even US could be OK if you know your stuff and can access Betfair.

[jjgold]

Hareeba I do not notice that much odds difference for USA horses at Betfair vs the totes in USA

Although maybe a horse off at 4-1 in USA and getting to 5-1 at Betfair makes up all the juice

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba I do not notice that much odds difference for USA horses at Betfair vs the totes in USA

Although maybe a horse off at 4-1 in USA and getting to 5-1 at Betfair makes up all the juice

I've never paid much attention to the US racing at Betfair because I just don't have the form data or know anything about the horses but I'd be mightily surprised if the market percentages weren't pretty well in keeping with the norm at Betfair, i.e. less than 105% so if your totes are taking 20% or more then Betfair would have to be a long way better?

I'll try and remember to take a look tomorrow. But perhaps the liquidity is low?

[superhans]

Liquidity for US racing is awful. Worse than South Africa

[Terminators]

Why would anyone bet serious money on horses??

Are Aussie Horses more beatable than USA where takeouts range from 15% to 25% per bet??

Using an odds comparison site can get your margin down to 1-2% for most metro races. If you're a half decent judge and knock out some obvious horses at unders (apprentices with wide gates, track bias, popular horses syndrome etc) you can swing the odds in your favour. If you're a better judge you can get on markets 1-2 days before weekend metro races and pick up nice overs.

I tend to only play horses as a hobby, probably rate myself a half decent judge but don't go backwards. No doubt plenty here with more time to put in do very well

[AimePor]

They are withdrawing but the aren't really leaving from the UK. They will continue to get the big bets, for the most part though the agent system. There are other solutions too, like a temporary residence in another EU country, if you don't have one already. The point is that those who need to bet there will find a way to do so. They will loose the small timers but those don't really fit in their low margin - big volume approach. The European books can have those. They pay commission to agents but they avoid expenses associated with deposits/withdrawals. The 15% rate is quite high cause it's on gross profit. The situation is similar for SBO as well.

Spot on.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to continue using Pinnacle Sports from your cozy home in UK.

All you need is a VPN connection and a betting brokerage agency. The high rollers will continue betting via the likes of BET-IBC without any fuss. Casual bettors could also try the agent system as well. As far as I'm aware you don't need to splash tons of money to get an account.

[jjgold]

Not as easy as it looks getting a brokerage account

Plus very few reputable ones

[BetterBizness]

JJ which is the top and which is the bottom in your av?

[minet123]

Not as easy as it looks getting a brokerage account

Plus very few reputable ones

Gawd your an idiot

[jjgold]

Minet that I know the two biggest broker owners in the world

How did I know pinnacle was sold before you did

[shaunovery]

Minet that I know the two biggest broker owners in the world

How did I know pinnacle was sold before you did

Was pinny really sold

[AimePor]

Not as easy as it looks getting a brokerage account

Plus very few reputable ones

It worked pretty well here

[teejay]

New member here so please excuse the bump of this thread..

For me personally, I couldn’t be bothered stuffing around with bet brokers and VPN’s.
If I’m looking to bet with sites that are willing to take my action I’ll go with exchanges. Namely: Betfair, WBX, Betdaq, Matchbook.
Anyone know if they're all UK Licensed? I know WBX already is and Matchbook has said they are planning to but how about Betdaq and Betfair?


If Betfair aren't do you think they will increase their commissions for UK members to recoup the costs of the 15% tax?
I know their Australian Horse racing customers were hit with 6.5% commission when they got added costs there, is it safe to assume that BF commission will go to 6% or 6.5% for UK customers too?

[shaunovery]

Betfair are already are

[superhans]

Betdaq owned by Ladbrokes. So should be covered with them

Betdaq increasing commission to 5% anyway..... so may as well stick with betfair

Cant see betfair increasing their commission any further. With Smarkets and Matchbook both at 2%, it would just drive customers to them.

[shaunovery]

Betfair offering no commission at Nottingham horse racing today

[jjgold]

Smarket is absolutely dead
Betdaq/Ladbroke basically dead

There are no real exchanges but betfair that has lots and lots of liquidity

Matchbook is very good only for USA sports, tennis ok and major soccer but don't forget it's mainly a pre-match exchange verse betfair that's definatley more of a live betting exchange

[King_Suckerman]

Smarket is absolutely dead

That is simply not true. Smarkets is good for top soccer leagues, UK horses and more besides. eg Man C v Tottenham right now - Man C 1.49 to back (£1,369 available), 1.5 to lay (£2,787 available).
Liquidity and range of markets are not as good as Betfair but to say Smarkets is "absolutely dead" is ludicrous.

[jjgold]

If betfair is a 10 on liquidity smarkets is 1 on liquidity end of story

[teejay]

Betfair are already are

I know Betfair are based in UK, but I read that since 2011 the betting exchange operates out of Gibraltar because of the lower tax.
Maybe what I read was outdated, but if they are paying 15% tax in UK for the exchange again then who knows how it affects things.

[JayZ]

UK tax is a profits tax. What kills exchanges is turnover tax.

[diondublin]

Is this still the case?

[diondublin]

Spot on.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to continue using Pinnacle Sports from your cozy home in UK.

All you need is a VPN connection and a betting brokerage agency. The high rollers will continue betting via the likes of BET-IBC without any fuss. Casual bettors could also try the agent system as well. As far as I'm aware you don't need to splash tons of money to get an account.

Sportmarket Pro and Asian Connect have potential