Pinnacle Sports set to exit UK market ahead of new UK Gambling Law implementation

[Hareeba!]

Is there any software we can use to trade on matchbook like betfair

You wouldn't want to trade at Matchbook.
You are charged commission on every wager win or lose, rather than on net market result like at Betfair.

[cankid]

Thats sucks

[shaunovery]

You wouldn't want to trade at Matchbook.
You are charged commission on every wager win or lose, rather than on net market result like at Betfair.

Cheers for that I didn't know

[OTL]

So is Pinnacle waiving the rollover requirement for UK players affected by this decision? I would hope so.

[buddha]

I don't understand how Books can withdraw from huge markets such as this (including how other books have announced they'd no longer take bets from US) so easily, seemingly without much of a fuss about it. Aren't we talking about, over time, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS HERE???? in lost revenue.

What am I not understanding about this? About books so "willing" to just turn away from earnings? Is my confusion due to misunderstanding that bettors within these banned areas still have ways to use these books to bet? Its the only answer that amkes any sense 'cuz books just merrily turning their backs on money doesn't make sense. Help me out some of you Oldheads. I'm very confused. I thought a fairly sizable portion of Pinny's business was from UK bettors.

[indio]

I don't understand how Books can withdraw from huge markets such as this (including how other books have announced they'd no longer take bets from US) so easily, seemingly without much of a fuss about it. Aren't we talking about, over time, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS HERE???? in lost revenue.

What am I not understanding about this? About books so "willing" to just turn away from earnings? Is my confusion due to misunderstanding that bettors within these banned areas still have ways to use these books to bet? Its the only answer that amkes any sense 'cuz books just merrily turning their backs on money doesn't make sense. Help me out some of you Oldheads. I'm very confused. I thought a fairly sizable portion of Pinny's business was from UK bettors.

It's not rocket science. If you have a business model relying on low margins and volume, and the cost of that bet added to all the other expenses no longer makes profit margins viable, then you either close or raise prices. Rather then opening a pinnacle.uk site only for english players that would deal 4.5% + margins (which would cost a lot to implement, and the licensing fees every yr.), they'd rather stick to their working model in the countries allowed. They walked away from the much bigger US market when the threat of confiscation made being there pointless, so I don't know why them leaving the much smaller UK market would surprise you when it's also become non-viable.

Even PokerStars, who does tons more volume, and pays to be licensed, will be reducing player benefits for UK players. Take a look at the rate that PokerStars has to charge for the separate sites for France, Italy, and Spain, and you'll understand what is needed to compensate for over burdening regulation.

[dirtdog52658]

You wouldn't want to trade at Matchbook.
You are charged commission on every wager win or lose, rather than on net market result like at Betfair.

You are only charged 1% on winning wagers.

[Hareeba!]

You are only charged 1% on winning wagers.

No. You pay 1% whether the bet wins or loses at Matchbook.
So if comparing to Betfair it is close to being 2% effectively.
You are risking 101 to win 99.

[xtrader]

They are withdrawing but the aren't really leaving from the UK. They will continue to get the big bets, for the most part though the agent system. There are other solutions too, like a temporary residence in another EU country, if you don't have one already. The point is that those who need to bet there will find a way to do so. They will loose the small timers but those don't really fit in their low margin - big volume approach. The European books can have those. They pay commission to agents but they avoid expenses associated with deposits/withdrawals. The 15% rate is quite high cause it's on gross profit. The situation is similar for SBO as well.

[jjgold]

Trader basically with best post I have seen on this subject

[Martinr]

They are withdrawing but the aren't really leaving from the UK. They will continue to get the big bets, for the most part though the agent system. There are other solutions too, like a temporary residence in another EU country, if you don't have one already. The point is that those who need to bet there will find a way to do so. They will loose the small timers but those don't really fit in their low margin - big volume approach. The European books can have those. They pay commission to agents but they avoid expenses associated with deposits/withdrawals. The 15% rate is quite high cause it's on gross profit. The situation is similar for SBO as well.

Nail on head here. Smaller punters have never been suited to the Pinnacle model. A UK player wants to get 20-50K down at Pinny next month I doubt there'd be a problem.

[buddha]

Nominated the post because I can't give points cuz I'm a scumbag. I guess I am just surprised by how powerful governments are. Restricting betting is like Prohibition multiplied by Infinity. People will always bet on stuff. Government that wants to run the best book on the net out of their country just seem like morons to me. They are politicians though so I guess this was inevitable. Great post and excellent post from indio as well. Tried to nominate that one also but disallowed as the depth of my scumbaggery is unconscionable to the forum software platform.

[Hareeba!]

Nominated the post because I can't give points cuz I'm a scumbag. I guess I am just surprised by how powerful governments are. Restricting betting is like Prohibition multiplied by Infinity. People will always bet on stuff. Government that wants to run the best book on the net out of their country just seem like morons to me. They are politicians though so I guess this was inevitable. Great post and excellent post from indio as well. Tried to nominate that one also but disallowed as the depth of my scumbaggery is unconscionable to the forum software platform.

I doubt they tried or wanted to run Pinnacle out of the country. They just don't understand the impact of the measures they introduce. They simply saw it as a way of raising more revenue. But it's going to fail miserably.

[importmoon]

Ladbrooks and William Hill was the Rolls Royce bookmaker in UK for decades...

[buddha]

I doubt they tried or wanted to run Pinnacle out of the country. They just don't understand the impact of the measures they introduce. They simply saw it as a way of raising more revenue. But it's going to fail miserably.

Yes and surprise on my part that Pinny couldn't find a cunning linguist to make the legislators able to see the blatant stupidity behind their legislation. Anytime Government Bureaucracy becomes involved a matter gets too complex for my brain to understand. Thank you all for the clarifications.

[Martinr]

I'm not so sure that it's as straightforward as the government simply not foreseeing the consequences of their legislation.
Watch UK racing for as long as I do and it soon becomes clear that the tail wags the dog.
Don't tell me JP McManus and co haven't got a few politician pals at Downing St on side.

[superhans]

I'm not so sure that it's as straightforward as the government simply not foreseeing the consequences of their legislation.
Watch UK racing for as long as I do and it soon becomes clear that the tail wags the dog.
Don't tell me JP McManus and co haven't got a few politician pals at Downing St on side.

This.

I bet if you look at who the major shareholders are of laddies, will hill etc they are also Tory donators. Is it coincidence that Ladbrokes buy Betdaq, and launch their own exchange and Pinnies are soon forced from the market?

Uk books will continue to limit anyone who wins, orcing them to the exchanges. Betfair's premium charges will push people to Smarkets, Matchbook, Ladbrokes/Betdaq. Only 1 of them have the budget for wide scale advertising.

Labour will be back in charge in 2015. They love deregulation.... so all will be back to normal soon

[jjgold]

All the big players around the world are playing on credit end of story

[JayZ]

If you read the debates around the Bill as it went through parliament it was all about player protection, and the integrity of sporting events. Very little if anything mentioned about the taxation side, but then again that would be natural because it came from the Department for Culture, Media & Sport and not The Treasury.

Now we may have our own views about the past effectiveness of the UKGC for player protection, money laundering and match fixing. Certainly some of the other jurisdictions were none to pleased at being cast under a shady light when in some respects they have been well ahead. The Isle of Man for example has for some years required funds separation, whilst the UKGC clung onto requiring no more than caveat emptor until as late as last month. However, in all of the above areas the UKGC has tightened conditions, and the amount of disclosure by companies is significantly greater, including unusual betting patterns. Whether it has the resources to cope remains to be seen, but it has over the last 3 years nearly quadrupled its total staff.

[jjgold]

Most post up UK players are very small bettors

[RedDevil1974]

I doubt they tried or wanted to run Pinnacle out of the country. They just don't understand the impact of the measures they introduce. They simply saw it as a way of raising more revenue. But it's going to fail miserably.

How will it fail, part of the reason they do it, is so more money stays in the host country one way or another.

If a book is taking millions per year in gambling money and thus, any licensing costs or tax revenue out of said country. For nothing.

How is it a fail for the countries that do it? these mugs/punters will continue to gamble, they will just eventually (rightly or wrongly) have to mostly bet in their own country. if anything it keeps money there, which isnt a fail.

[jjgold]

I would have to think UK players will play more with licensed UK books with the new law

They really don't have a choice

[dealer wins]

Punters that use Pinnacle will not spend a penny more with UK books, but will find other ways to bet with Pinnacle.

Anyone who uses Pinny will only be betting with UK books to arb or middle!!

[jjgold]

you cannot arb with UK books

you will be limited in 3 days

it does not exist anymore

[Hareeba!]

UK's new provisions have been delayed - now not to take effect until 1st Nov.

[superhans]

you cannot arb with UK books

you will be limited in 3 days

it does not exist anymore

You can. Just dont take every arb they have.... throw in shops and there is plenty to be made

[jjgold]

Hans I disagree but good luck with it!!

Best of luck tonight

[JayZ]

UK's new provisions have been delayed - now not to take effect until 1st Nov.

Delayed for the High Court action by the Gibraltar Betting and Gaming Association.

[jjgold]

I wonder why the delay?

[Hareeba!]

Well, some good news for UK punters ... Matchbook say they will not be abandoning you!

[jjgold]

I think this backfired on the UK

They want to keep business with licensed sports books but I do not know how much impact it will have

[superhans]

It does seem to me to be against EU law... a restriction on trade and services.

Gibraltar are part of the EU, so hopefully they are complaining about this.

If it is the case, and they win then it will mean a bookie will have licenced anywhere in the EU and be able to offer to the UK

[jjgold]

Maybe will be overturned

Let's hope so

[superhans]

Due to a one month postponement of the Gambling (Licensing & Advertising) Act, Pinnacle Sports can offer our services to you, as a resident of Great Britain, until October 31st, 2014. We apologise for any confusion this causes but the circumstances are entirely outside of our control.
What will happen?
• All your account options other than withdrawal will be blocked on October 31st, 2014
• Any of your bets placed up to and including October 31st, 2014 will be honoured.
• All standard withdrawal rules and fees will apply until 31st October 2014.
• After October 31st, 2014 you will be able to login and withdraw any outstanding balance free of charge.
Should the circumstances around regulation change again, we will continue to keep you informed.

Click for further information

The Marketing Team
Pinnacle Sports

[shaunovery]

1 month extra yipee