Is this Trayvon Martin thing getting out of control?

[Tully Mars 63]

Pssh. Whatever. My friend used to be a State Atty in Florida and she worked at Starbucks on weekends for spending money. Cops ALWAYS make more. ALWAYS. They're the one group of government employees neither party wants to demonize.

Seriously? Wow I don't think I ever worked anywhere where the DA's didn't make more then the police. Well maybe some long time detectives, maybe. I mean I don't remember sharing pay stubs or anything but I know most of the DA's had nicer homes and were driving way more expensive vehicles then my Ford truck.

Learn something new all the time.

[sharpcat]

Pssh. Whatever. My friend used to be a State Atty in Florida and she worked at Starbucks on weekends for spending money. Cops ALWAYS make more. ALWAYS. They're the one group of government employees neither party wants to demonize.

In any case, its not a question of "this Travyon Martin" thing getting out of hand. You're thinking too small. What's gotten out of hand is "Stand Your Ground".

"Stand your ground" has gotten out of hand is very subjective to the beliefs of who is looking at it. Some people (especially those who have never been the victim of a violent attack) believe that nobody should have the right to use lethal force to defend themselves, some people want to have the right to use lethal force to defend their own life. Some people are die hard against gambling and think it is morally wrong, some people feel it is their right to do whatever they want with their money.

The only problem comes with abuse of the law but we can not control that because people will always find loopholes in the system. Should we do away with welfare benefits because some people abuse the welfare system?

[Tully Mars 63]

More news tonight regarding this case-

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-sanford-police-chief-bill-lee-fired-20120620,0,5565383.story

The Florida police chief who faced heavy criticism for his officers' failure to arrest the man who killed Trayvon Martin has been fired, Sanford city officials told the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday night.

Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee met with the city manager earlier in the day to discuss the terms of his employment, officials said.
“I have determined the police chief needs to have the trust and respect of the elected officials and the confidence of the entire community,” City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a statement Wednesday night. “We need to move forward with a police chief that all the citizens of Sanford can support. I have come to this decision in light of the escalating divisiveness that has taken hold of the city.”
Lee took a leave of absence after Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old, was shot Feb. 26. George Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, said he shot Martin in self-defense.
Lee offered to quit in April, but the City Council rejected his resignation on a 3-2 vote.
“Since February, the discussions have been whether it was feasible for him to come back and whether the city could move on, quote unquote, if he does come back,” Lonnie Groot, a lawyer from Lake Mary, Fla., who represents Sanford, told The Times just before he heard of Lee’s firing. “Everything that you [have] seen, read and heard since he stepped aside – that’s been the continuing conversation within the city.”
Lee will receive three months and one week’s worth of severance pay, in addition to any earned time off, officials said. The search for a new police chief will begin immediately.

[sharpcat]

O'mara seems to think it's hurts their credibility. He out and out states that. Although I guess it's possible he's just playing to a potential jury pool.



GZ gets out on time served? Time served for what? He's in jail on some serious charges. He was out on bond. He could very well get bond again, my guess is he will. But he won't be getting "time served." I don't even think that's a legal option in this case at this point.

Why do you try to dissect every little post and rip it out of context?

Again you just continue to deflect every opportunity you get. Nobody said that I meant time served as a legally documented part of his bail.

I simply mean that Lester can conclude that 1 month in jail was enough to prove that he was not going to tolerate any nonsense. Time served does not have to be on file it can also be the determining factor in the mind of the judge on whether to raise the bond or not.

[Tully Mars 63]

Why do you try to dissect every little post and rip it out of context?

Again you just continue to deflect every opportunity you get. Nobody said that I meant time served as a legally documented part of his bail.

I simply mean that Lester can conclude that 1 month in jail was enough to prove that he was not going to tolerate any nonsense. Time served does not have to be on file it can also be the determining factor in the mind of the judge on whether to raise the bond or not.

Time served is a legal term and when you use it completely out of context or inaccurately it confuses me as to what you mean. Simple as that, no deflection just confusion.

[sharpcat]

More news tonight regarding this case-

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,5565383.story

This is not special news the man tried to step down from his job 3 months ago but the board chose not to accept his resignation.

See this is why I asked if you were black Tully because you claim to have no dog in this fight but you are obsessed with reporting news with intentions of damaging any support of Zimmerman. I make my living on the internet

[sharpcat]

Time served is a legal term and when you use it completely out of context or inaccurately it confuses me as to what you mean. Simple as that, no deflection just confusion.

Time served is a legal term and can't be used for anything else? I was unaware of this.

[Tully Mars 63]

This is not special news the man tried to step down from his job 3 months ago but the board chose not to accept his resignation.

See this is why I asked if you were black Tully because you claim to have no dog in this fight but you are obsessed with reporting news with intentions of damaging any support of Zimmerman. I make my living on the internet

I never said it was special news just news. I honestly don't see how this helps or hurts the Zimmerman case. I see this as mere political fallout that really only affects one man and his family.

Do you read the posts I make where I ask posters why or how they know Zimmerman is guilty? One's where I state I don't see how they could know that? Or do you only read some of my posts?

Since you've repeatedly asked, though I fail to see why it matters, I will tell you I'm so white I don't even tan well. Happy?

Myself I don't care where you earn your living or what race you are.

[Tully Mars 63]

Time served is a legal term and can't be used for anything else? I was unaware of this.

It could mean other things. But when you're discussing a legal case and court hearings I found it confusing.

Now I spent four years in the military. If we were discussing that subject I guess I could see a statement of I got out after "I served my time" or with "time served." My DD214 says "Honorable Discharge."

But we're not discussing other things. We're discussing a legal case. Do you not see where I might be confused?

[sharpcat]

It could mean other things. But when you're discussing a legal case and court hearings I found it confusing.

Now I spent four years in the military. If we were discussing that subject I guess I could see a statement of I got out after "I served my time" or with "time served." My DD214 says "Honorable Discharge."

But we're not discussing other things. We're discussing a legal case. Do you not see where I might be confused?

It is really not that confusing but I can see how an anal person with an obsession for finding slight errors in posts on a gambling chat forum could find a way to make it seem confusing.

[Tully Mars 63]

It is really not that confusing but I can see how an anal person with an obsession for finding slight errors in posts on a gambling chat forum could find a way to make it seem confusing.

If we were discussing poker and you said "the river was red." I wouldn't think you were talking about an actual river with red water in it. I'd think you were talking about the color of a card and possibly it's role in a hand being a flush. Right? I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. One post vaginal tearing is evidence and a couple posts later it isn't, seriously, honestly you're hard to track. You've repeatedly stated I've taken positions I clearly haven't. I simply want the conversation to be clear, ok? Can we at least agree on that?

[sharpcat]

You sound like my girlfriend Tully

Blah...blah....blah....you said this....you said that.....I wasn't reading so I misread your post.....blah.....blah....blah

Are you this anal and nit-picky in real life?

Conversation can not be clear when you keep manipulating what I posted and did not post like a fukkin woman Tully!!!!!!

[Tully Mars 63]

You sound like my girlfriend Tully

Blah...blah....blah....you said this....you said that.....I wasn't reading so I misread your post.....blah.....blah....blah

Are you this anal and nit-picky in real life?

Only when people repeatedly make nonsense remarks and misstate facts. Or when they repeatedly try to twist something I said into the complete opposite of what I said.

Speaking of girlfriends.. the pool and a cold drink are calling. Think I'll go join her.

[sharpcat]

Only when people repeatedly make nonsense remarks and misstate facts. Or when they repeatedly try to twist something I said into the complete opposite of what I said.

Speaking of girlfriends.. the pool and a cold drink are calling. Think I'll go join her.

Shame my girlfriend is at work......guess I will have to wait a few hours to have to continue conversation with someone who only hears what they want to hear now that you are leaving.

[Tully Mars 63]

More news out this morning-

A newly released videotape shows George Zimmerman re-enacting for investigators his version of events the night he shot and killed unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin.

The re-enactment, which was conducted at the scene one day after the Feb. 26 shooting, was among new evidence released by prosecutors in advance of Zimmerman's trial for second-degree murder. Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, says he killed Martin in self-defense.
The full tape was made available on the GZlegalcase.com website managed by Zimmerman's defense team.
Portions were broadcast today by reporter Pierre Thomas on ABC's Good Morning America.
In the tape, ABC reports, Zimmerman claims that he was attacked by Martin that night in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
"He took my head and slammed it against the concrete several times, and each time I thought my head was going to explode and I thought I was going to lose consciousness," George Zimmerman tells police in the tape, according to ABC News.
He says he "started screaming for help," but that Martin pressed his hands over Zimmerman's mouth and nose and told him to shut up.
"I didn't want him to keep slamming my head on the concrete so I kind of shifted. But when I shifted my jacket came up … and it exposed my firearm. That's when he said you are going to die tonight. He took one hand off my mouth, and slid it down my chest. I took my gun aimed it at him and fired."

Interesting. Zimmerman's own site released and posted the whole interview. They wouldn't do that unless they feel certain that this will help them greatly.

[sharpcat]

More news out this morning-



Interesting. Zimmerman's own site released and posted the whole interview. They wouldn't do that unless they feel certain that this will help them greatly.

The GZ Legal case site posts all information related to the case whether it is in favor of George or not, unlike Black Entertainment Television and agenda driven liberal media outlets who only report what feeds into their storyline.

GZ Legal case is the place to go if you want to hear or see the full video/audio clips and not some edited nonsense from MSNBC.

[Tully Mars 63]

The GZ Legal case site posts all information related to the case whether it is in favor of George or not, unlike Black Entertainment Television and agenda driven liberal media outlets who only report what feeds into their storyline.

GZ Legal case is the place to go if you want to hear or see the full video/audio clips and not some edited nonsense from MSNBC.

I wouldn't know I've never been able to log on to it. It always times out on me.

Who owns and operates it?

[RunningMan7]

Sharpcat, read what I wrote. If there is clear evidence to back what Zimmerman was saying, then where did I say his testimony has no bearing? I put the burden of proving that he commited the act on the prosecution. But if things are not clear evidence wise(and no matter what you claim, there is reason to believe evidence was not collected meticulously on the scene judging by no MRI was even done on a guy who claims to have his head banged repeatedly on concrete).

For me the act's burden of proof falls on the state. But the intention should shift back to the shooter in my view of what is just. Otherwise, ever mafia hit can be planned by provoking the potential hit.

[sharpcat]

Mark O'Mara had the site set up when he realized how Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump was manipulating the information being released to the media. The site was set up not to paint Zimmerman out to be a saint but to release all of the facts in the case without any agenda driven editing.

Also is a link to the sites facebook and twitter pages where you will see that the site administrators allow all comments that stay on topic including the ones from your typical Zimmerman haters.

The site I believe is owned and run by the firm who is representing Zimmerman.

[Tully Mars 63]

Mark O'Mara had the site set up when he realized how Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump was manipulating the information being released to the media. The site was set up not to paint Zimmerman out to be a saint but to release all of the facts in the case without any agenda driven editing.

Also is a link to the sites facebook and twitter pages where you will see that the site administrators allow all comments that stay on topic including the ones from your typical Zimmerman haters.

The site I believe is owned and run by the firm who is representing Zimmerman.

I've repeatedly tried to log on to it and have always "timed out." I just tired minutes ago and now I'm getting a "403 Forbidden" error. Maybe it's not accessible internationally.

[sharpcat]

Sharpcat, read what I wrote. If there is clear evidence to back what Zimmerman was saying, then where did I say his testimony has no bearing? I put the burden of proving that he commited the act on the prosecution. But if things are not clear evidence wise(and no matter what you claim, there is reason to believe evidence was not collected meticulously on the scene judging by no MRI was even done on a guy who claims to have his head banged repeatedly on concrete).

For me the act's burden of proof falls on the state. But the intention should shift back to the shooter in my view of what is just. Otherwise, ever mafia hit can be planned by provoking the potential hit.

Again a woman could have sex with a man and then stab him to death. Evidence would show that there was intercourse much like the visible injuries to George Zimmerman show he was attacked.

My question to you is should a woman who used lethal force to defend herself from an attacker be put in jail and be forced to pay for an attorney to prove that she acted in self defense? or should the state be required to find enough evidence to prove that she did not act in self defense?

This is the USA and liberty and justice for all is what this country was built on, Justice is not forcing someone to prove that they are innocent, justice is given everybody the benefit of the doubt until you have evidence to show beyond a doubt that they are guilty. If you do not like that you are more than welcome to leave this country, I believe third world countries have justice systems like the one you seek.

[sharpcat]

I've repeatedly tried to log on to it and have always "timed out." I just tired minutes ago and now I'm getting a "403 Forbidden" error. Maybe it's not accessible internationally.

403 would be an issue with the server.

They are probably operating on a small private server with limited resources for tech support.

[sharpcat]

After watching Zimmerman walk through the reenactment of the shooting the Zimmerman chased down Martin theory is completely destroyed.

-On the video it took Zimmerman and detectives less than one minute at a casual stroll pace to get from Zimmermans truck to the corner of the sidewalk where the fight took place.

-a simple review of the 911 call transcript reveals that it was impossible that Zimmerman "chased" Martin down.
*He’s running. [2:08]

*Are you following him? [2:24]

*Call ends 4:07

*Zimmerman 911 call received at 7:09, Gunshot goes off documented in 911 call at 7:17

This means that it was just over 4 minutes from the time Zimmerman was noted to be chasing Martin until the time Martin was shot at a location that took Zimmerman and the police detectives to casually stroll in less than 1 minute.

Absolutely no way Martin was running scared from Zimmerman for 5 minutes and ended up back at Zimmermans truck unless Zimmerman chased him in a big circle around the block for 5 minutes or Martin doubled back to confront Zimmerman.

[sharpcat]

Link to reenactment videos:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/osvideo-george-zimmerman-newly-released-video-and-audio-20120621,0,3960700.htmlstory

[MC PICKS]

Trayvon told him he was gonna die tonight and then went for his piece, zimmerman is gonna walk now. Clearly self defense and the witness will coroborate that zimmerman asked him for help.

[sharpcat]

Trayvon told him he was gonna die tonight and then went for his piece, zimmerman is gonna walk now. Clearly self defense and the witness will coroborate that zimmerman asked him for help.

I seriously just want Tully or somebody to give me a logical explanation as to why Trayvon Martin was 30 yards away from Zimmermans truck 6 minutes after running away?

Originally I thought that possibly Trayvon ran around the corner and took shelter in the nearest stairwell of one of the condo buildings assuming these may have been apartment style, but in the video there is clearly nowhere where Trayvon could have taken shelter nearby because these are town house style condo units.

Why was Trayvon 30 yards away from Zimmermans truck 6 minutes after being reported running away when the direction he originally ran in was towards his destination?

[Tully Mars 63]

I seriously just want Tully or somebody to give me a logical explanation as to why Trayvon Martin was 30 yards away from Zimmermans truck 6 minutes after running away?

Originally I thought that possibly Trayvon ran around the corner and took shelter in the nearest stairwell of one of the condo buildings assuming these may have been apartment style, but in the video there is clearly nowhere where Trayvon could have taken shelter nearby because these are town house style condo units.

Why was Trayvon 30 yards away from Zimmermans truck 6 minutes after being reported running away when the direction he originally ran in was towards his destination?

Why would you expect me to give you a logical explanation for an event I've repeatedly expressed I have no knowledge as to what happened?

Here's quick reference to what I've said-

1. I have no idea if Mr. Zimmerman is guilty or not.

2. I hope he gets a fair trial.

3. Both Mr. and Ms. Zimmerman hurt their credibility with untruthful statements during Mr. Zimmerman's bond hearing.

4. Ms. Zimmerman's statements to the court contradict what she told her husband and discussed with a Credit Union Employee. So think the perjury charge on her will stick and she'll likely get a slap on the wrist for it.

That's pretty much the extent of what I've express here. Well that and I think rape kits, vaginal tearing and DNA are evidence of a sexual assault. And South America is located South East of Virgina.

[sharpcat]

Can you quote what George Zimmermans untruthful statement during the bond hearing was? or did you just read that on BET.com? Why was George not charged with perjury also?


Anyhow you seem to have an argument for everything I post so I was just curious to see if you could come up with a reason as to why with a 6 minute running head start to his house 150 yards away, and no where to stop in between that is not privately owned property, would Trayvon end up back in sight of Zimmermans truck only 30 yards away from where he first started to run?

[Tully Mars 63]

Can you quote what George Zimmermans untruthful statement during the bond hearing was? or did you just read that on BET.com? Why was George not charged with perjury also?


Anyhow you seem to have an argument for everything I post so I was just curious to see if you could come up with a reason as to why with a 6 minute running head start to his house 150 yards away, and no where to stop in between that is not privately owned property, would Trayvon end up back in sight of Zimmermans truck only 30 yards away from where he first started to run?

I take it from the judges words during the hearing-

"Does your client get to sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That's the issue," Lester said. "He can't sit back and obtain the benefit of a lower bond based upon those material falsehoods."

Lying by omission is still lying. I think both Zimmerman's statements and actions have hurt their credibility. Their own attorney, O'Mara, has stated publicly he believes that too.

I've never even heard of BET until you brought it up in this thread.

[sharpcat]

I take it from the judges words during the hearing-

Lying by omission is still lying. I think both Zimmerman's statements and actions have hurt their credibility. Their own attorney, O'Mara, has stated publicly he believes that too.

I've never even heard of BET until you brought it up in this thread.

I find it disturbing that someone who claims to have been a parole officer would continue to misrepresent facts. I expect this from the media who are spinning the story to fit their agenda and to keep their prized story going but not from you.

Truth is George never lied under oath. If he did lie under oath he would have been charged with perjury also. The credibility of his family may be hurt but they are not even witnesses in his trial and you can't continue to paint George as a liar when it was his wife who lied and not him.

[Tully Mars 63]

I find it disturbing that someone who claims to have been a parole officer would continue to misrepresent facts. I expect this from the media who are spinning the story to fit their agenda and to keep their prized story going but not from you.

Truth is George never lied under oath. If he did lie under oath he would have been charged with perjury also. The credibility of his family may be hurt but they are not even witnesses in his trial and you can't continue to paint George as a liar when it was his wife who lied and not him.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. Merely quoting what the judge said. Do you also believe the judge is misrepresented the facts?

[sharpcat]

I'm not misrepresenting anything. Merely quoting what the judge said. Do you also believe the judge is misrepresented the facts?

Provide the quote of what the judge said.

[Tully Mars 63]

Provide the quote of what the judge said.

I've already done that... this evening. Seriously take a reading comprehension course.

I'm headed out to dinner and show. Argue with yourself for the rest of the evening.

[sharpcat]

I've already done that... this evening. Seriously take a reading comprehension course.

I'm headed out to dinner and show. Argue with yourself for the rest of the evening.

The judge never said that he lied in that quote Tully.

"Does your client get to sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That's the issue," Lester said. "He can't sit back and obtain the benefit of a lower bond based upon those material falsehoods."

Stop spreading you lack of comprehension as facts Tully. This quote says nothing more than Zimmerman benefitted from material falsehoods presented by his wife that resulted in a lower bond for him.

If Zimmerman told a lie under oath he would have been charged with perjury.

[Tully Mars 63]

Do you see somewhere on here where I said "he lied in court?" I said-

Both Mr. and Ms. Zimmerman hurt their credibility with untruthful statements during Mr. Zimmerman's bond hearing.

I think lying by omission is a lie but that doesn't fall under Florida's perjury statue, I would doubt it would in any state but I don't know that for sure. I looked up Florida's perjury laws a few weeks ago when a British paper reported that "Ms. Zimmerman faced up to 15 years for lying to the court." That seemed rather harsh so I looked it up and she doesn't. She would if this were a capital but it isn't so she doesn't. The Judge stated "he (Zimmerman) can't just "sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That's the issue," Lester said. "He can't sit back and obtain the benefit of a lower bond based upon those material falsehoods."

Zimmerman's own defense web site states-

"We feel the failure to disclose these funds was caused by fear, mistrust, and confusion. The gravity of this mistake has been distinctly illustrated, and Mr. Zimmerman understands that this mistake has undermined his credibility, which he will have to work to repair."

His own attorney thinks his actions have hurt his credibility. But when I state it I'm "spreading you (my) lack of comprehension as facts." Do you also think his own legal team spreading the same lack of comprehension of the facts?

You seem to think that any statement that doesn't make Zimmerman look good is part of some liberal lynch mob conspiracy hell bent on seeing him fry. Even posts that are basically neutral to Zimmerman you attack. Like my post of the news that the Police chief was fired. How is that a negative for Zimmerman? I don't think it is and I'm all but certain it won't be brought up in court. You stated it was all part of some agenda I have to post every negative thing about Zimmerman I can find. Once again I don't have an agenda here. But feel free to keep trying to claim I do.