A fire has never caused a building of that size to collapse and be leveled, and this time there is no plane octane explanation either. That is not logical or using common sense in my opinion.
-
Comment -
a 47 story steel framed building was leveled in the exact same manner as the buildings struck by planes, but building 7 was taken down by debris and a few small fires?
My only question after all of that is, who are the crazy ones?Comment -
"So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good. But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see. So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.
Firehouse (magazine): When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?
Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.
Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day."
Just one of many firefighter accounts from that day, detailing the damage to WTC7. Add in the fact that it was horribly designed, and it is no surprise that it fell.
This thread blew my mind with how many people seriously think it was an inside job.
Question for all the conspiracy theorists. If the towers were rigged to explode, why did the collapse start at the plane impact points? A demolition wouldn't do that. Also, how did the explosives survive the plane impacts, fires, and in the first tower to be hit, the 2nd tower falling? How did all of the explosives survive? They had to have survived til detonation for your little theory to make sense.
Comment -
why is there 0 video evidence of this huge hole? I believe my eyes over some internet story."So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good. But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see. So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.
Firehouse (magazine): When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?
Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.
Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day."
Just one of many firefighter accounts from that day, detailing the damage to WTC7. Add in the fact that it was horribly designed, and it is no surprise that it fell.
This thread blew my mind with how many people seriously think it was an inside job.
Question for all the conspiracy theorists. If the towers were rigged to explode, why did the collapse start at the plane impact points? A demolition wouldn't do that. Also, how did the explosives survive the plane impacts, fires, and in the first tower to be hit, the 2nd tower falling? How did all of the explosives survive? They had to have survived til detonation for your little theory to make sense.
Comment -
People need to research how buildings are designed and how they collapse. This isn't like pushing over something in the yard. Likewise, this wasn't a normal fire. Typically a far starts in one contained area and spreads. In this case, there were multiple floors on fire in addition to the structural damage the building had already received.
If you look at the picture in the link, you will notice that building 7 was in closest proximity to the collapse and suffered major damage. It should be no surprise that it collapsed as well. Also, show me a video of how you think a tall building should collapse.
I'm basing my opinions off of education, science, logic, photos, and just some common sense.
Conspiracy theorists are basing their "theories" off of how a Jenga tower falls, the internet, rumors, and the what the president of Iran says.
You think I'm crazy believing 9/11 wasn't inside job despite the fact I have evidence and all you have are hypothetical theories?Comment -
What have I said that was not a fact? I have not made one theory up, I am just not closing my eyes to a 47 story building falling down to ground level because of a few small fires. This is all caught on actual video evidence and I am not the one using some alleged quotes from a fire fighter who saw a hole 1/3 the size of the building when cameras are taping the building and no such hole is evident. I am not going to just let a 47 story building fall down and write it off as a casualty without asking some questions, I can't pretend like it happens every day when it has never happened before.Comment -
At first I thought people were kidding but they were serious and started arguing with me left and right.This thread blew my mind with how many people seriously think it was an inside job. Question for all the conspiracy theorists. If the towers were rigged to explode, why did the collapse start at the plane impact points? A demolition wouldn't do that. Also, how did the explosives survive the plane impacts, fires, and in the first tower to be hit, the 2nd tower falling? How did all of the explosives survive? They had to have survived til detonation for your little theory to make sense.
They say things like, "explain the fact there was no plane wreckage." When i proved that there was in fact plane wreckage, they come back with, "well that could have easily been planted."
It just proves how weak the theories are. They pop off about theories they read on the internet without having any knowledge about what actually happened, and then when I prove them wrong or blow a huge hole in their theory they have to come up with a "new" theory to combat my explanation.
There is really no point in continuing to argue. I keep putting evidence out you can actually prove while conspiracy theorist put out nothing more than things they think up.
No matter what I'm not going to change anyone's mind. It is interesting to hear people's reasoning for things though.Comment -
Comment -
It takes over two weeks to set up a controlled demolition of a building. So by admitting that he ordered the demolition of building 7 on September 11th Larry Silverstein is in fact admitting that he planned the demolition two weeks in advanceComment -
no offense but I can see you're already settled in and there is no way to get through to you. That picture doesn't show any hole. It's black smoke and look at the building next to it. Isn't it funny how it is standing so strong... That smoke could be caused by one floor being on fire.Comment -
a regular fire doesn't melt steel fellas. That building would not collapse under the temperature of a regular fire.Comment -
I didn't call anyone a liar. I can find a lot of fire fighters quotes that say they heard explosions, but then you would just laugh at that. People believe what they want to believe, but if you really thought for yourself you would be able to see that something doesn't add up.Comment -
Alleged quotes? Lol.
Captain Chris Boyle, Engine 94, an 18 year FDNY vet at the time.
Comment -
relying on peoples accounts of things under stressful circumstances is like relying on a game of telephone to get valuable information. Even if that is what he actually said, it doesn't mean it actually happened. I have been interviewed by a reporter before, and he put down things in quotes I did not actually say. He was probably pumped full of adrenaline and recalling from memory something that wasn't all too clear to him. The video evidence is like what they say about pictures. It's worth a 1,000 words.Comment -
Comment -
show me another instance where a steel building was brought down to ground level by a fire then? Since you're such an expert. According to what I have read this is the first case not involving airplanes.Comment -
So video evidence taken from hundreds or thousands of feet away is more reliable than the eyewitness reports from literally hundreds of firefighters who for the most part say the same thing?
I get that eyewitnesses can forget things/misremember, but how many make up the kind of detail that these guys are expressing, which is also corroborated by other firefighters accounts and the accepted timeline of that day?Comment -
Wow. It looks like I have one other person on my side.
So the US government did this? That means they attacked themselves when the Pentagon was hit. I mean really people?
For this to be an inside job, all of these people an agencies would have to be involved.
-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history...Yeah right. Like people would help cover his ass.
The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why?
The courts for imposing a gag order
The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive?
The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?
All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist.
The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11
The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history
The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns
Popular Mechanics
PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.
Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy"
NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.
The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam
EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire.
Structure Magazine who published a report saying the collapse of WTC 7 may have been due to one column failing.
-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...
-The CIA
-The FBI
-FEMA
-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.
-NORAD
-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists say never existed.
-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money. -Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.
-American Airlines (Pentagon)
-United Airlines (Pentagon)
-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes -Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology
-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)
-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)
-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.
-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings
-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover
-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)
-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)
-People who detonated the buildings"
-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.
Comment -
Sure, once you show me a steel building that was 300 feet away from 2 110 story buildings that collapsed, showering the smaller building with huge pieces of steel, and stayed standing.
Do you see my point? This was a unique circumstance, and one that can't be solved by saying "oh, well its never happened before, so it must be explosives". There were lots of 'firsts' that day. Massive structural damage, plus hours of unfought fire, plus a poorly designed building. How is this a surprise that it fell?Comment -
So yeah, I guess we have a couple hundred thousand people involved in an inside job against their own people. These people include families that lost loved ones. Firefighters and policemen that lost brothers.
Part of this weak ass theory was that there was no plane wreckage. Someone posts this on the internet and people run with it. It turns out there was wreckage and now all of the sudden the theory is, the wreckage was planted.
I keep using this example because it shows how people can continue to come up with more theories after their original theories were debunked.
Again, I side with education, science, physics, photographic proof, videos, first hand accounts by people that were there, and common sense.
You conspiracy people side with how a Jenga tower falls, what people type on the internet, and the President of Iran.Comment -
These are questions that have not been answered to my satisfaction. If you're pleased then that is ok by me, but I want some more answers. I could go on with this all day, but I just made some dinner and plan on watching this monday night game. Have a good night fellas.Comment -
You too.
There are plenty of unanswered questions and again, I think it's good that people don't take things at face value. There used to be a small thought in my head that something bigger was going on that day but after spending days looking over facts and researching it, I came to my own conclusions that it was impossible for something like that to be pulled off.Comment -
Comment -
If you really want answers, read this link. It was done by a board of high level engineering professors and professionals.
Enjoy the game
Comment -
this debunks the popular mechanics article http://books.google.com/books?id=CMZ...%20job&f=false
why some random magazine even holds much water anyway is beyond me.Comment -
everyone knows it was a mossad operation, so you can stop with this bush crap, you think the jew controlled government / press will say anything
Comment -
So now the people behind the attack told the media what would happen, rather than just let them report on it when it happened? Are you freaking kidding me? Of all the theories people have, this is by far the dumbest.
It was also reported that day that a Cessna had hit the towers, that a fighter jet had hit the towers, that 5 more planes had been hijacked, that more were missing, etc etc etc. Point being, that it was a crazy ass day and there were lots of false reports. For the WTC7 report to hit the media early, all it takes is 1 firefighter saying "yea, we think 7 will collapse" and it turns into WTC7 did collapse. Ever play the telephone game?Comment
