Two planes couldn't bring towers down, says Iran's leader

[Glitch]

As for starting the war machine, there are other ways to do that.

I can't believe people really think the elite in power would destroy their own economy, thus hurting their own pockets. Give me a break.

some people do profit and gain more power from war.

but id always give the benefit of the doubt to human decency until i see solid proof to either side.

[FindTheLock]

%100 agreed.

Its amazing how moronic and ignorant some people can be, and disrepectful too.

I dont want to get into the details, but you dont need a civil engineering degree that i have to understand this common sense...

Tower was built to sustain a fire. Like, a hot, normal fire. Have any of you ever burned jet fuel? Didnt think so. Shit burns REALLY damn hot. Way more then fire. The twin towers werent built for jet fuel? Why? Because when constructing a skyscrapper, you dont account for 10,000 gallons (that is a lot) of jet fuel to be burning on one floor. You cant build for that. Skyscrappers would literally cost 100x more if you had that type of defense in every tower.

So, 10000 gallons of jet fuel burning. Thats a lot. Steel burns. Columns buckle. What happens when columns buckle? The floors above it collapse. What happens when the floors above the explosion collapse? All the other floors above those floors collapse. So now you have 1/3 of the twin towers collapsing towards a specific floor. No floors on the trade centers were capable of handling 1/3 the weight of the entire building. Thus all the floors subsequently gave out, and the building collapsed straight down. ALMOST like a real demolition.

Hmm, will i trust proven science, or conspiracy theory people? Hmm...I think science has a slightly better track record over time...me thinks ill go w/ that.

How does your science hold up against the building that was never struck by a plane? Falling debris took down building 7 but no other building in the area? And Debris made it fall the exact same way as the other two buildings that were struck by planes? This is the one that always throws me off course.

[Ice House]

the CIA is probably reading this thread as we speak. Several key words that draw attention have been used on this thread.

[BigDofBA]

yes I do know for a fact their would be debris and wreckage from a plane wreck like the one that was reported. I know of victims family members who wan't answers to what really happened that day.

There was debris at both sites although it was not quite as pronounced as with most crashes because of the velocity if the plane at the time of impact.

When a plane crash occurs, the pilot usually at least attempts to land which means he slows down to about 200 mph. That's a big difference from 600mph.

Likewise, part of the fuselage along with burnt clothes was found in Pennsylvania. Part of the rudder was found at the Pentagon.

I think the media limited the amount of pictures they showed.

Either way, these weren't typical plain crashes so you shouldn't expect to see typical plane crash pictures.

Are you also going to tell me that planed didn't crash into the WTC? Was that made up too?

I guess the people that saw the planes before they crashed in Pennsylvania and Washington are in on it to.

[Mikail]

There was debris at both sites although it was not quite as pronounced as with most crashes because of the velocity if the plane at the time of impact.

When a plane crash occurs, the pilot usually at least attempts to land which means he slows down to about 200 mph. That's a big difference from 600mph.

Likewise, part of the fuselage along with burnt clothes was found in Pennsylvania. Part of the rudder was found at the Pentagon.

I think the media limited the amount of pictures they showed.

Either way, these weren't typical plain crashes so you shouldn't expect to see typical plane crash pictures.

Are you also going to tell me that planed didn't crash into the WTC? Was that made up too?

I guess the people that saw the planes before they crashed in Pennsylvania and Washington are in on it to.

All the supposed debris in Shanksville's crash location could have been easily planted. Go ahead and look at the photos. It amazes me how sheepish people can be.

[BigDofBA]

Lmao. This is why these conspiracy theories hold little to no water.

People base their claims off things that aren't true.

Example: Saying there was no debris.

After it is proved that there was debris, they have to come up with another theory to disprove the truth again. So now the debris was planted in Pennsylvania???

So now we have more people involved in this inside job.....ok.

What happened to the passengers then??

Geez. I studied the physics and engineering behind the collapse when I was in college. I am basing my opinion on my education. If you guys want to base base your opinion off of Jenga and the Internet, go for it.

I think it's good people question things and I don't think the government ever tells us everything. I'm sure there is a lot we dont know about that day.

With that said, I am certain the planes brought the buildings down. If you really think there were bombs planted all over the building, that means they planted multiple bombs in two office buildings that 30 thousand people worked at and no one noticed. Give me a break.

[DwightShrute]

to be perfectly honest BigDof , that sounds more logical than the other side

[Mikail]

Lmao. This is why these conspiracy theories hold little to no water.

People base their claims off things that aren't true.

Example: Saying there was no debris.

After it is proved that there was debris, they have to come up with another theory to disprove the truth again. So now the debris was planted in Pennsylvania???

So now we have more people involved in this inside job.....ok.

What happened to the passengers then??

Geez. I studied the physics and engineering behind the collapse when I was in college. I am basing my opinion on my education. If you guys want to base base your opinion off of Jenga and the Internet, go for it.

I think it's good people question things and I don't think the government ever tells us everything. I'm sure there is a lot we dont know about that day.

With that said, I am certain the planes brought the buildings down. If you really think there were bombs planted all over the building, that means they planted multiple bombs in two office buildings that 30 thousand people worked at and no one noticed. Give me a break.

There is evidence substantiated that bombs were planted. Mossad explosive experts -- who just so happened to be in town just prior to and on 9/11 -- could be readily allowed access to strategic areas of the buildings in order to prep for the demolition.

[BigDofBA]

I forgot to add that residents of Shanksville found burning books, papers, and small parts of human remains.

One lady turned over a bag to authorities.

So I have a lot mote evidence that it did happen and your assumptions that there was no debris wad clearly inaccurate.

That's the whole problem with these conspiracy theories. People base theories off things they haven't even researched and believe Internet rumors.

[BigDofBA]

There is evidence substantiated that bombs were planted. Mossad explosive experts -- who just so happened to be in town just prior to and on 9/11 -- could be readily allowed access to strategic areas of the buildings in order to prep for the demolition.

So bombs were planted all over the building and out of the 30 thousand people working there, no one noticed?

There are too many holes in this ridiculous theory.

If the whole point of the inside job was to prompt the war machine, the initial attacks would have been sufficient. They wouldn't have then blown the buildings up. Likewise, they could have just blown the buildings up without using planes.

Also, all of you conspiracy theorists claim the government did it. So let me get this straight. The government was behind this yet they attacked themselves when the Pentagon was hit. Great theory.

And yes, I already know the response to that one. It was just to help cover it up right?

[cant call it]

%100 agreed. Its amazing how moronic and ignorant some people can be, and disrepectful too. I dont want to get into the details, but you dont need a civil engineering degree that i have to understand this common sense... Tower was built to sustain a fire. Like, a hot, normal fire. Have any of you ever burned jet fuel? Didnt think so. Shit burns REALLY damn hot. Way more then fire. The twin towers werent built for jet fuel? Why? Because when constructing a skyscrapper, you dont account for 10,000 gallons (that is a lot) of jet fuel to be burning on one floor. You cant build for that. Skyscrappers would literally cost 100x more if you had that type of defense in every tower. So, 10000 gallons of jet fuel burning. Thats a lot. Steel burns. Columns buckle. What happens when columns buckle? The floors above it collapse. What happens when the floors above the explosion collapse? All the other floors above those floors collapse. So now you have 1/3 of the twin towers collapsing towards a specific floor. No floors on the trade centers were capable of handling 1/3 the weight of the entire building. Thus all the floors subsequently gave out, and the building collapsed straight down. ALMOST like a real demolition. Hmm, will i trust proven science, or conspiracy theory people? Hmm...I think science has a slightly better track record over time...me thinks ill go w/ that. To add...i do believe that we are not being told the %100 truth. But are we ever? The government wont tell us shit, for one reason or another. Do i think they know more than we do? Hell yea. Do i think they are hiding stuff? Absolutely. Do i think that it is possible that there was a controlled demolition? Absolutely not. They might be hiding some things from us, but they cant hide the science behind the fact that jet fuel would have and did bring down the twin towers. Cant stand the "Dude no way a plane brings down the whole building" people...

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1940s/a/empirecrash.htm

On the foggy morning of Saturday, July 28, 1945, Lt. Colonel William Smith was piloting a U.S. Army B-25 bomber through New York City. He was on his way to Newark Airport to pick up his commanding officer, but for some reason he showed up over LaGuardia Airport and asked for a weather report. Because of the poor visibility, the LaGuardia tower wanted to him to land, but Smith requested and received permission from the military to continue on to Newark. The last transmission from the LaGuardia tower to the plane was a foreboding warning: "From where I'm sitting, I can't see the top of the Empire State Building."¹
Avoiding Skyscrapers
Confronted with dense fog, Smith dropped the bomber low to regain visibility, where he found himself in the middle of Manhattan, surrounded by skyscrapers. At first, the bomber was headed directly for the New York Central Building but at the last minute, Smith was able to bank west and miss it. Unfortunately, this put him in line for another skyscraper. Smith managed to miss several skyscrapers until he was headed for the Empire State Building. At the last minute, Smith tried to get the bomber to climb and twist away, but it was too late.
The Crash
At 9:49 a.m., the ten-ton, B-25 bomber smashed into the north side of the Empire State Building. The majority of the plane hit the 79th floor, creating a hole in the building eighteen feet wide and twenty feet high. The plane's high-octane fuel exploded, hurtling flames down the side of the building and inside through hallways and stairwells all the way down to the 75th floor.
World War II had caused many to shift to a six-day work week; thus there were many people at work in the Empire State Building that Saturday. The plane crashed into the offices of the War Relief Services of the National Catholic Welfare Conference. Catherine O'Connor described the crash: [blockquote shade="no"] The plane exploded within the building. There were five or six seconds - I was tottering on my feet trying to keep my balance - and three-quarters of the office was instantaneously consumed in this sheet of flame. One man was standing inside the flame. I could see him. It was a co-worker, Joe Fountain. His whole body was on fire. I kept calling to him, "Come on, Joe; come on, Joe." He walked out of it.² Joe Fountain died several days later. Eleven of the office workers were burned to death, some still sitting at their desks, others while trying to run from the flames.
One of the engines and part of the landing gear hurtled across the 79th floor, through wall partitions and two fire walls, and out the south wall's windows to fall onto a twelve-story building across 33rd Street. The other engine flew into an elevator shaft and landed on an elevator car. The car began to plummet, slowed somewhat by emergency safety devices. Miraculously, when help arrived at the remains of the elevator car in the basement, the two women inside the car were still alive.
Some debris from the crash fell to the streets below, sending pedestrians scurrying for cover, but most fell onto the buildings setbacks at the fifth floor. Still, a bulk of the wreckage remained stuck in the side of the building. After the flames were extinguished and the remains of the victims removed, the rest of the wreckage was removed through the building.
The plane crash killed 14 people (11 office workers and the three crewmen) plus injured 26 others. Though the integrity of the Empire State Building was not affected, the cost of the damage done by the crash was $1 million.

[cant call it]

So bombs were planted all over the building and out of the 30 thousand people working there, no one noticed? There are too many holes in this ridiculous theory. If the whole point of the inside job was to prompt the war machine, the initial attacks would have been sufficient. They wouldn't have then blown the buildings up. Likewise, they could have just blown the buildings up without using planes. Also, all of you conspiracy theorists claim the government did it. So let me get this straight. The government was behind this yet they attacked themselves when the Pentagon was hit. Great theory. And yes, I already know the response to that one. It was just to help cover it up right?

If you do research, they were doing "security detail" throughout the past few weeks before this happened. Hundreds of people not working for the trade center constantly walking in and out.
Who was in charge? jeb bush.
Read up, post back here.

[Mikail]

So bombs were planted all over the building and out of the 30 thousand people working there, no one noticed?

This could have been done easily without anyone even batting an eye. Do you have any idea how many contractors, security, cleaners, visitors were in that building daily?

[Thor4140]

How does your science hold up against the building that was never struck by a plane? Falling debris took down building 7 but no other building in the area? And Debris made it fall the exact same way as the other two buildings that were struck by planes? This is the one that always throws me off course.

It is such a ridiculous notion. Why weren't buildings falling all over the place? His science is Fox News science. They find the one scientist out of 5 million and run with the idiot. Kinda like climate change.

[cant call it]

It is such a ridiculous notion. Why weren't buildings falling all over the place? His science is Fox News science. They find the one scientist out of 5 million and run with the idiot. Kinda like climate change.

if fox news and pop mechanics says its true, its true.

[BigDofBA]

Planes in the 1940's were nothing like they are today.

That plane held 6 people and traveled at a max speed of 225 miles an hour.

That plane weighed 10 tons. The one that hit the WTC weighed 30 tons.

You can look all of my facts up!!!

If a Cesna crashed into a building, I doubt it would do much damage either.

[William Walters]

There is evidence substantiated that bombs were planted. Mossad explosive experts -- who just so happened to be in town just prior to and on 9/11 -- could be readily allowed access to strategic areas of the buildings in order to prep for the demolition.

Considering you're a known terrorist sympathizer............your opinion/views on 9/11 are skewed/warped.

Run along now.........Rod needs his lipstick touched up.

[Thor4140]

This could have been done easily without anyone even batting an eye. Do you have any idea how many contractors, security, cleaners, visitors were in that building daily?

It doesn't hurt to have this guy affiliated with the buildings in question. Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served. [Utne] According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."


Nah he didn't have anything to do with it just like his brother Neil had nothing to do with the Silverado savings and loan thievery that cost the tax payers about a trillion dollars.


Jeb Bush, George Bush Sr., and his son Neil Bush have all been implicated in the Savings and Loan Scandal, which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars

[milwaukee mike]

bigd where can you look up the FACT that the average victim's family got $1.8 million with the only stipulation being that they never sued any u.s. or israeli government?

did victims' families of hurricane katrina, oklahoma city, virginia tech massacre, columbine, etc get any blood money like this?

i guess the plane that hit wtc 7 weighed 30 tons too, and that's why cnn and bbc reported that wtc 7 collapsed before it happened...

[cant call it]

bigd where can you look up the FACT that the average victim's family got $1.8 million with the only stipulation being that they never sued any u.s. or israeli government? did victims' families of hurricane katrina, oklahoma city, virginia tech massacre, columbine, etc get any blood money like this? i guess the plane that hit wtc 7 weighed 30 tons too, and that's why cnn and bbc reported that wtc 7 collapsed before it happened...

[BigDofBA]

So the government did this yet they attacked themselves?

I don't doubt security was doing work. I work in an office and they are always doing things. That doesn't mean or prove they planted bombs.

That's the whole problem with these conspiracy theories. It's all theory with no actual proof.

I do applaud people for not accepting what they're told. One should always question.

[cant call it]

So the government did this yet they attacked themselves?

its called a false flag operation. Has been carried out dozens of times by us govt.

[BettingWizard]

He's right. Plus, building 7 wasn't even hit by a plane

[BigDofBA]

i guess the plane that hit wtc 7 weighed 30 tons too, and that's why cnn and bbc reported that wtc 7 collapsed before it happened...

Where can I see that CNN reported it before it happened? I remember them reporting it was very unstable and a collapse was likely.

Even if they did, it changes nothing. There was a ton of confusion that day.

I don't think conspiracy theorists understand how impossible it would be to pull off what they are saying happened.

There were would have to be thousands of people in on it all coordinated to do something without anyone knowing and quite frankly, there isn't proof any of it happened. Just theories.

I have science and education backing me.

I have photos backing me.

And lastly, I have common sense on my side.

[Mikail]

[milwaukee mike]

So the government did this yet they attacked themselves?

I don't doubt security was doing work. I work in an office and they are always doing things. That doesn't mean or prove they planted bombs.

That's the whole problem with these conspiracy theories. It's all theory with no actual proof.

I do applaud people for not accepting what they're told. One should always question.

one should especially question people that lied immediately after 9/11:
1) george w bush - said he saw the 1st plane on tv before entering the classroom, this was impossible because it wasn't broadcast by anyone. also repeatedly lied about iraq having wmd along with pretty much everyone else
2) dick cheney - lied about when he entered the bunker, see norman mineta's sworn testimony
3) larry silverstein (owner of wtc) - lied about having a dermatology appointment on 9/11, also his children lied about why they would miss their most important meeting in wtc on 9/11. also lied about saying he gave the order to "pull" wtc7 when asked about it later. lied about losing money on wtc deal, he has paid out $100 million/year but he has collected over $5 billion and got a brand new wtc7 already. strange how you can lose money on a deal that sees your net worth go from almost nothing to $5 billion and puts you in the fortune 500.
4) rudy giuliani - lied about being told the wtc was being demolished, when he is on tape saying he got out because he was told they were blowing up wtc 7
5) donald rumsfeld - lied one time or the other, he said the pentagon was hit by a missile, then said it was hit by a plane. certainly BOTH of these two things did not happen, unfortunate that all 80 of the pentagon and dmv's cameras failed at the same time so we can't tell which
6) condeleeza rice and others - lied when they said they had "no idea anyone would use planes as weapons", they were running drills THAT SAME DAY that used planes as weapons crashing into buildings.

so to believe anything these liars say is completely illogical, especially when it contradicts laws of physics and common sense.

[Mikail]

[BigDofBA]

I researched this years ago. I've seen "Loose Change" ect.

I went into the Inside job theory with an open mind but came to my one conclusions that it's nothing more than a creative theory.

I do enjoy the discussion though. People have some interesting arguments.

I don't think we are told the truth a the time either.

[BettingWizard]

No plane ever hit the 3rd building a lot of people don't know about, but building 7 fell in the exact same manner as the twin towers on the same day. How could that building (which happened to be a federal building with a lot of important documents in it) fall in the same way as the other two without having any contact with a plane?

[BigDofBA]

To Mil. Mike

Rumsfield said United 93 was shot down. There are videos of it on YouTube

I do believe it's entirely possible the gov. shot the plane down to avoide extra casualties on the ground.

If this happened, I'm sure they would cover it up and try to portray the passengers as heroes.

That being said, that's about the only theory I can see being true. Just my opinion. I respect others that share a different opinion.

[FindTheLock]

Where can I see that CNN reported it before it happened? I remember them reporting it was very unstable and a collapse was likely.

Even if they did, it changes nothing. There was a ton of confusion that day.

I don't think conspiracy theorists understand how impossible it would be to pull off what they are saying happened.

There were would have to be thousands of people in on it all coordinated to do something without anyone knowing and quite frankly, there isn't proof any of it happened. Just theories.

I have science and education backing me.

I have photos backing me.

And lastly, I have common sense on my side.

please enlighten me with your science and common sense then. Tell me how falling debris only took out one other building that was not hit by a plane, when many other buildings were around, in the exact same fashion as two others that were hit by jet liners? If someone could ever logically explain that to me then I would be more inclined to listen to "common Sense and science". Until then I think it is common sense to question the hell out of that. The mathematics behind that particular building being the only other to fall, and what the contents inside that building contained, leads math and science to favor the alleged conspiracy theorists. Building 7 was a federal building was it not? What was inside that building? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I sure would like to.

[BigDofBA]

As for buildings falling, how exactly do people expect them to fall???

These buildings are designed specific ways. These aren't houses of cards.

Do people think buildings should collapse in the way that a bottle of water does when you push it over???

Buildings are built in sections. It's not going to just fall over like it's one piece.

Buildings collapse. They don't just fall over. Once the internal support of the structure goes. The building just collapses.

Didn't think I would need to explain this.

[FindTheLock]

I can understand debris causing severe damage, but building 7 was leveled. Debris would not do that to a structure. If there were holes in the building I can understand, but the damn thing went down like a house of cards.

[FindTheLock]

As for buildings falling, how exactly do people expect them to fall???

These buildings are designed specific ways. These aren't houses of cards.

Do people think buildings should collapse in the way that a bottle of water does when you push it over???

Buildings are built in sections. It's not going to just fall over like it's one piece.

Buildings collapse. They don't just fall over. Once the internal support of the structure goes. The building just collapses.

Didn't think I would need to explain this.

how did debris reach the internal support of building 7? The thing was leveled it wasn't just damaged.

[BigDofBA]

Building 7 is the center of this theory and it can easily be explained.

Building 7 caught fire by falling debris from the initial collapse. The automatic sprinkler system did not have adequate power and water pressure was low.

Fire fighters noticed instability in the building ad the fire continued throughout the afternoon.

Once deemed unstable, they evacuated and the fire kept burning until the building collapsed.

So in essence, it collapsed much like the other buildings. Fire melted it's internal support.