Greedy Wisc Unions can't pay 5.8% of Pension costs???

[TU]

Seems to me the middle class has been footing the bill for these union workers for a long time. Don't be pissed off because Walker ran a campaign and then ACTUALLY DID what he campaigned on. Talk about change we can all believe in.

Bullshit. Walker did NOT campaign on busting the unions. Another ******* lie.

[TU]

I am truly sorry. Please, oh wise one, enlighten me. I bow to your superior intelligence and ability to form a rational argument

Thanks.

[southside sox]

movement now underway to recall that goon walker.

Amen to that. Primary goal is to bust the unions.

[dollarbill]

all topics become a argument between posters

[Reno Paul]

Robert Schlesinger

Poll: Voters Oppose Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker in Union Standoff

By Robert Schlesinger
Posted: February 22, 2011



Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has become an instant conservative darling and national figure with his standoff against his state’s public worker unions. But a new poll suggests his no-compromise, union-busting approach is not playing well in the historically progressive state.


Walker is pushing a bill which would cut public union benefits and take away virtually all of the unions’ collective bargaining rights. Greenberg Quinlan Rosner, a respected Democratic polling firm released a polling memo Sunday showing that Walker’s approval rating is under water with likely voters with 51 percent disapproving. And specifically regarding the Madison showdown, Walker is the least popular figure among those surveyed, with 43 percent of likely voters agreeing with his stance and 53 percent disagreeing; contrast that with state GOP lawmakers (48-46 agree), state Democratic lawmakers (56-39), Unions (59-37), the protesters (62-31), and public employees (67-24).

This might be related to the public unions calling Walker’s budget bluff. The governor has tried to frame his proposal as being budget -focused, that concessions are required from the public workers because of the state’s fiscal emergency (never mind, as my bloleague Anson Kaye pointed out yesterday, that it is an emergency of his own creation). But when the unions offered to meet his financial demands in exchange for keeping their collective bargaining rights (or as Walker seems to view them, “collective bargaining privileges”), he said that wasn’t good enough--they had to concede everything.


But the new poll shows that stance is wildly unpopular: Independent voters think state workers should be able to keep their collective bargaining rights if they agree to the cuts Walker wants, by a margin of 76-19; even Republicans are closely split, with 49 percent thinking the workers should keep their rights and 47 percent agreeing with Walker’s hard line (that’s within the poll’s +/-4 percent margin of error). Democrats--no surprise--side the workers keeping their rights by a 94-1 margin.
Perhaps trying to press their advantage, national labor groups have taken to the airwaves in the state with a new television ad featuring a Wisconsin firefighter. It’s a clever gambit because firefighters and other first responders (who, quel supris, tend to lean more Republican) are exempted from Walker’s proposal.

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[rsnnh12]

Thanks.

Way to not answer my post. Please explain how being anti-public union equates to hating the middle class?

[TU]

Way to not answer my post. Please explain how being anti-public union equates to hating the middle class?

Unions protect the rights of middle class workers. There is no benefit to the middle class to eliminate unions. It just amazes me when middle class people side with their corporate masters. Walker cuts taxes for the rich and wants to break the teacher's union. A union that has already agreed to cuts. So it's really not about the budget is it? It's about power. A recall is coming.

[rsnnh12]

Unions protect the rights of middle class workers. There is no benefit to the middle class to eliminate unions. It just amazes me when middle class people side with their corporate masters. Walker cuts taxes for the rich and wants to break the teacher's union. A union that has already agreed to cuts. So it's really not about the budget is it? It's about power. A recall is coming.

What parts of public worker unions have corporate masters?

While I think private sector unions are for the most part outdated, I don't have a big issue with them. The difference between private sector unions and public sector unions is that private unions are fighting for a greater share of whatever profits are made by their work... public unions don't have that. Public unions only fight for greater pay at the expense of taxpayers, regardless of how well the work is done (look at how hard it is to fire bad teachers in some areas of the country).

Eliminating public unions will not result in a sudden decrease in pay or benefits, it will result in reasonable compensation/benefits for the work provided. No more buying off politicans with votes for favorable (and unnecessarily big) budgets, no more ridiculous union dues that are used to fatten the union leaders wallets.

Not to mention, who is paying for all these salaries? The rich and the middle class. So how am I against the middle class?

[TU]

Eliminating public unions will not result in a sudden decrease in pay or benefits, it will result in reasonable compensation/benefits for the work provided. No more buying off politicans with votes for favorable (and unnecessarily big) budgets, no more ridiculous union dues that are used to fatten the union leaders wallets.

Not to mention, who is paying for all these salaries? The rich and the middle class. So how am I against the middle class?

Bullshit. Ridiculous union dues? You can do better than that. Without unions it will only speed up the fact that we are going to have two classes in this country. The poor and the elite. It's been happening at record pace since 1980. Cut the taxes on the wealthy and strip the working man of representation and the right to organize. Tick tock. Tick tock.

[rsnnh12]

Bullshit. Ridiculous union dues? You can do better than that. Without unions it will only speed up the fact that we are going to have two classes in this country. The poor and the elite. It's been happening at record pace since 1980. Cut the taxes on the wealthy and strip the working man of representation and the right to organize. Tick tock. Tick tock.

Way to address 1 tiny part of my post, and ignore the rest. The only working men who are being "stripped of representation" are public employees, which as I explained in my last post, shouldn't have a CBA anyway. Their unions are paid for by the taxpayer... but are they looking out for us? Or themselves?

And some of the rich have gotten super rich... doesn't mean the rest of us are all of a sudden living in the ghetto. We still have a very high standard of living, arguably the highest its ever been.

And guess what happens when you jack taxes up on the wealthy? Hint- its the same thing that happens when you do it to businesses... they leave. What happens then? Who pays the half of all tax revenue that the top 1% pay, when they just close up shop and retire to some island? I don't know about you, but I've never gotten a job from a poor man

[ABEHONEST]

I have worked around unions for many, many years. They are the next closet thing to being an unopposed, organized crime group.
Not all of them of course, but the unions that are not carefully scrutinized by some outside legit authority [who would that be?].

Too much inside buddy, buddy favors with hard-earned, honest, worker's money.

[TU]

I don't know about you, but I've never gotten a job from a poor man

You have to love that line. I recall hearing it on the campaign trail during the last few elections. "We must lower taxes on the rich and continue to kill innocent people around the world in illegal wars that we will wage on humanity. Oh and don't cut my social security or medicare. Actually just don't cut any programs that I use." - said poor fools like you. So we lower taxes on the rich and continue spending on wars and who pays for it? C'mon use that big brain of yours. Now repeat after me. I am a moron that believes everything I hear because I am a slave to my party. If you need help get a friend or a stranger with a degree to help you. Moron.

[meader99]

Unions protect the rights of middle class workers. There is no benefit to the middle class to eliminate unions. It just amazes me when middle class people side with their corporate masters. Walker cuts taxes for the rich and wants to break the teacher's union. A union that has already agreed to cuts. So it's really not about the budget is it? It's about power. A recall is coming.

Unions used to do this. Now there are other entities that protect the American worker. Unions now just get in the way of firing the lazy or incompetent folks that need to be fired. I have talked to people in the union that can't stand the union. Why? Because they go into work on time everyday and do a good job. They get a little agitated when a company fires the no good, lazy guy who comes in late everyday (if at all) and the union just brings him back the next week. Why are we paying for their benefit package? Why should we allow them to collectively bargain their pension and insurance 2 years from now? The spending is out of control. Are they limiting some of the union's control? Bet your ass they are. Are they busting the union? Hardly.

[pronk]

All qualified employees are going to leave the state because they can get more money and benefits pretty much anywhere else.

Great! I hope they all go to Russia where they belong

[rsnnh12]

You have to love that line. I recall hearing it on the campaign trail during the last few elections. "We must lower taxes on the rich and continue to kill innocent people around the world in illegal wars that we will wage on humanity. Oh and don't cut my social security or medicare. Actually just don't cut any programs that I use." - said poor fools like you. So we lower taxes on the rich and continue spending on wars and who pays for it? C'mon use that big brain of yours. Now repeat after me. I am a moron that believes everything I hear because I am a slave to my party. If you need help get a friend or a stranger with a degree to help you. Moron.

Typical liberal retard. Can't address 99% of what I said, because you know I'm right. I'm an independent, I have a Bachelors in Kinesiology, and am about to get my Doctor of Physical Therapy. Yet another fail on your part.

Did I say anything about lowering taxes on the rich? No? Nice reading comprehension. And please tell me, what was illegal about the wars? UN Resolutions justified military action if Saddam wasn't cooperating, which he didn't do for a friggin decade. And he shot at our warplanes... not an act of war though, right?


So, again I'll ask. Can you address ANY of my points on the subject at hand? Or are you going to continue to bring up random stereotypes (that don't even fit me) and look like an idiot?

[falconticket]

Don't be fooled by teachers "low salaries". Teachers do not contribute to Social Security like you and I, therefore they take home an extra 6.2 %So a $30,000 dollar salary = $31800+ receive pension benefits in excess of $20000. Plus health care subsidies. For instance my wife makes 63000 annually + pension, and receives 10 weeks off a year , 2 weeks vacation, 22 sick days. They send her a letter each year reminding her that her actual compensation is $81000 annually. Just to be accurate. Even entry level teachers make good money, and get cost of living adjustments and raises annually. Not that bad a deal.

[TU]

Typical liberal retard. Can't address 99% of what I said, because you know I'm right. I'm an independent, I have a Bachelors in Kinesiology, and am about to get my Doctor of Physical Therapy. Yet another fail on your part.

Did I say anything about lowering taxes on the rich? No? Nice reading comprehension. And please tell me, what was illegal about the wars? UN Resolutions justified military action if Saddam wasn't cooperating, which he didn't do for a friggin decade. And he shot at our warplanes... not an act of war though, right?


So, again I'll ask. Can you address ANY of my points on the subject at hand? Or are you going to continue to bring up random stereotypes (that don't even fit me) and look like an idiot?

I highly doubt you have a degree of any kind. The Internet is a fun place, isn't it? You better get back to your books and get started. Then maybe you can learn how to think for yourself.

Congress voted to give authorization based on the WMD, which was based on a lie. Let's not even get started on the war in Afghanistan. Killing innocent people to chase after a man that is using the weapons we gave him years ago. Ever hear about Blowback? Another book you should be reading.

As for the subject at hand, its about taking rights away from the middle class. Which you seem to have no problem with. Just amazing. Once again ignore the tax cuts given to the elite and step on your neighbor. Go **** yourself you worthless piece of shit.

[TU]

Don't be fooled by teachers "low salaries". Teachers do not contribute to Social Security like you and I, therefore they take home an extra 6.2 %So a $30,000 dollar salary = $31800+ receive pension benefits in excess of $20000. Plus health care subsidies. For instance my wife makes 63000 annually + pension, and receives 10 weeks off a year , 2 weeks vacation, 22 sick days. They send her a letter each year reminding her that her actual compensation is $81000 annually. Just to be accurate. Even entry level teachers make good money, and get cost of living adjustments and raises annually. Not that bad a deal.

That is another thing that is sickening. You have poor people wanting cuts to social security. All this tea-party bullshit is amazing. People fighting against their own interests. When it was hijacked from Ron Paul, was a sad day. I donated to Ron Paul. The current form of the tea-party is embarrassing. All you have to do is raise the cap on SS. Problem ******* solved.

[falconticket]

Fuk Social security. Abolish it and save your own money. Thats my take

[TU]

Fuk Social security. Abolish it and save your own money. Thats my take

I agree, but i've paid into it for awhile so I expect my cash when I retire. Unless they want to cash me out right now.

[rsnnh12]

I highly doubt you have a degree of any kind. The Internet is a fun place, isn't it? You better get back to your books and get started. Then maybe you can learn how to think for yourself.

Congress voted to give authorization based on the WMD, which was based on a lie. Let's not even get started on the war in Afghanistan. Killing innocent people to chase after a man that is using the weapons we gave him years ago. Ever hear about Blowback? Another book you should be reading.

As for the subject at hand, its about taking rights away from the middle class. Which you seem to have no problem with. Just amazing. Once again ignore the tax cuts given to the elite and step on your neighbor. Go **** yourself you worthless piece of shit.

You think I care whether an idiot like you believes what I do in my real life?

And, for a 3rd (or is it 4th?) time, I'll ask you- how the hell does abolishing public union collective bargaining rights=taking away rights from the middle class? I bet you're one of those idiots who think only the rich got tax cuts under Bush, despite the fact that the middle class got more.

Are you just upset because you haven't been successful, so you want the people who have been to compensate you for that?

[Reno Paul]

People are living longer in general.....Baby boomers retiring, less workers per capita paying into the system.

The age to collect on benefits will have to go up eventually....

As of now, I hear that Social Security is solvent until 2037.

I still may be alive in 2037 and the system needs to be tweaked.

[newguy]

You think I care whether an idiot like you believes what I do in my real life?

And, for a 3rd (or is it 4th?) time, I'll ask you- how the hell does abolishing public union collective bargaining rights=taking away rights from the middle class? I bet you're one of those idiots who think only the rich got tax cuts under Bush, despite the fact that the middle class got more.

Are you just upset because you haven't been successful, so you want the people who have been to compensate you for that?

You might as well save your breath - just reading what Tu writes and it is clear you aren't going to get him to understand anything anyway. Anyone who attacks someone personally for their beliefs is a sad sad person. I can't imagine the miserable life Tu lives, but I can assure you, I wouldn't want any part of it!! Just don't respond anymore - I am sure there are some kids waiting to use the library computer he is taking up time on anyway!!

[TU]

You think I care whether an idiot like you believes what I do in my real life?

And, for a 3rd (or is it 4th?) time, I'll ask you- how the hell does abolishing public union collective bargaining rights=taking away rights from the middle class? I bet you're one of those idiots who think only the rich got tax cuts under Bush, despite the fact that the middle class got more.

Are you just upset because you haven't been successful, so you want the people who have been to compensate you for that?

Are you incapable of following logic?

I do just fine. Thanks for your concern. Another of my favorite lines when you are out of answers. All liberals are broke. Funny how liberals have more education but are broke by your estimation. Get at those books, boy.

[rsnnh12]

You might as well save your breath - just reading what Tu writes and it is clear you aren't going to get him to understand anything anyway. Anyone who attacks someone personally for their beliefs is a sad sad person. I can't imagine the miserable life Tu lives, but I can assure you, I wouldn't want any part of it!! Just don't respond anymore - I am sure there are some kids waiting to use the library computer he is taking up time on anyway!!

Agreed. For such an easy question that requires very little logic (according to him, at least), he sure is having trouble giving a straight answer. Oh well

[rsnnh12]

Are you incapable of following logic?

I do just fine. Thanks for your concern. Another of my favorite lines when you are out of answers. All liberals are broke. Funny how liberals have more education but are broke by your estimation. Get at those books, boy.

Last response until you actually answer the question. If its so easy to understand, please, walk me through the steps.

Also- how am I out of answers, when I'm the one asking a simple question that you refuse to answer? And education =/=having money, nice try though

[meader99]

I highly doubt you have a degree of any kind. The Internet is a fun place, isn't it? You better get back to your books and get started. Then maybe you can learn how to think for yourself.

Congress voted to give authorization based on the WMD, which was based on a lie. Let's not even get started on the war in Afghanistan. Killing innocent people to chase after a man that is using the weapons we gave him years ago. Ever hear about Blowback? Another book you should be reading.

As for the subject at hand, its about taking rights away from the middle class. Which you seem to have no problem with. Just amazing. Once again ignore the tax cuts given to the elite and step on your neighbor. Go **** yourself you worthless piece of shit.

Nobody is taking away the rights of the "middle class." Just trying to get folks who have had a free ride for a long, long time to get off the tit. What is so wrong with making people contribute their own money to their own pension and their own insurance? These boys will still be able to negotiate their wages, but the freebie pension and insurance will be no more. Fair is fair. I consider myself "middle class." Why should my taxes continue to go up so these union boys can stay on the tit? The previous administration had no foresight, which is why he's gone. Walker is going to clean up Wisconsin on his way to cleaning up the White House.

[TU]

Nobody is taking away the rights of the "middle class." Just trying to get folks who have had a free ride for a long, long time to get off the tit. What is so wrong with making people contribute their own money to their own pension and their own insurance? These boys will still be able to negotiate their wages, but the freebie pension and insurance will be no more. Fair is fair. I consider myself "middle class." Why should my taxes continue to go up so these union boys can stay on the tit? The previous administration had no foresight, which is why he's gone. Walker is going to clean up Wisconsin on his way to cleaning up the White House.

Do you even know what the issue is in Wisconsin? They have already agreed to cuts. It's about bargaining rights. Get back to us when you educate yourself a bit more. Thanks and quit wasting space in the future.

[TU]

Last response until you actually answer the question. If its so easy to understand, please, walk me through the steps.

Also- how am I out of answers, when I'm the one asking a simple question that you refuse to answer? And education =/=having money, nice try though

If you are really that slow to not realize that eliminating bargaining rights will not suppress middle class wages, then there is no hope for you.

[rsnnh12]

If you are really that slow to not realize that eliminating bargaining rights will not suppress middle class wages, then there is no hope for you.

Please explain it. How does eliminating bargaining rights for public sector unions suppress middle class wages?

Not these "idiot, its so obvious" or "don't you have logic?" explanations, but actual reasoning

[meader99]

I know at this point it's about bargaining rights. They can bargain their wages. That's all they need to be able to bargain. Walker isn't about putting a band-aid on the situation. Wisconsin doesn't go forward if they allow the unions to bargain their pension and insurance in 2 years. It is what it is. They are going to have to paya portion into their own pension and insurance with their own money PERMANENTLY.

[meader99]

Please explain it. How does eliminating bargaining rights for public sector unions suppress middle class wages?

Not these "idiot, its so obvious" or "don't you have logic?" explanations, but actual reasoning

Not going to get that from someone who is so far in the forest he can't see the trees. Talking to that boy is a lot like

[rsnnh12]

Not going to get that from someone who is so far in the forest he can't see the trees. Talking to that boy is a lot like

Yup... it would be one thing if he actually backed up his arguments, but he doesn't.

We're all just dumbasses I guess

[meader99]

Perhaps he should go into politcis. He's got a way of dodging the issue and around it.

[TU]

Yup... it would be one thing if he actually backed up his arguments, but he doesn't.

We're all just dumbasses I guess

You finally got something right. Seriously though, are you really that slow? You should not be posting in here. Actually from the looks of it, you fit right in. I take that back.