Re-watching Band of Brothers

[dante1]

probably for about the 5th or 6th time. IMO, one of the greatest WWII productions ever. Richard Winters died in Hershey PA about 8 or 9 years ago I believe. I followed his life after watching this show.

based on truth, listening to the guys who fought (most gone now) was moving and powerful. they absolutely were the greatest generation.

if you never watched it you should. fun fact--Nazi soldiers were hopped up on speed throughout the war. probably one of the reasons they fought so ferociously and probably partially why they killed innocents with absolutely no empathy. In fact during the USSR campaign an entire German battalion marched through an incredibly ferocious blizzard for 3 full days. some felt no pain in freezing temperatures and limbs fell off, literally.

however don't feel superior because allied troops were also given speed, albeit not as much but allied soldiers also used. that drug caused soldiers to fight hard and produced great bravery, an entire unit of allied soldiers attacked the Germans during the desert war against Rommel and not one returned.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcMk85ZsBh0

[WillyBoy]

Agree wholeheartedly. The best WWII production ever. Great cast and great “story” (the truth, of course). Still waiting for a comparable production with the war in the Pacific as its focus.

[hehfest]

I'm a Nazi expert. They were on Pilot's Salt. Chemical name Pervitin. It was meth dude. Not speed. Major difference. They also fought about 80% plus on the Eastern front so the Americans didn't do as much as you think in that war. The Eastern front destroyed them. Let's just say if there was not an Eastern front the Americans don't win.

Put it this way. No Japan. No Soviets. Germany still wins war and you and I are never born.

[hehfest]

[dante1]

I'm a Nazi expert. They were on Pilot's Salt. Chemical name Pervitin. It was meth dude. Not speed. Major difference. They also fought about 80% plus on the Eastern front so the Americans didn't do as much as you think in that war. The Eastern front destroyed them. Let's just say if there was not an Eastern front the Americans don't win.

Put it this way. No Japan. No Soviets. Germany still wins war and you and I are never born.

yes Pervitin was the brand name. I am not into drugs so I thought they were the same. the only drug I ever used in my entire life was nicotine, a little marijuana and a very little alcohol.

I don't think Germany would have won even without the soviets. they did take the huge brunt but Britain did also. Germany could not win a long war because of two very big problems. Hitler and resources. If you are big into the Nazis you know the allies had a plan to assassinate Hitler and it would have succeeded. but the brain trust had second thoughts because he was so inept. this genius stuff is BS. he made crucial mistakes at crucial times and with him as leader and a long drawn out war--nope they still lose.

but they did have great martial music which is a huge plus. some of their military music is/was fabulous.

[dante1]

Agree wholeheartedly. The best WWII production ever. Great cast and great “story” (the truth, of course). Still waiting for a comparable production with the war in the Pacific as its focus.

yeah that would be wonderful. clint E made a couple decent movies I enjoyed them. however IMO and yours not equivalent to BOB. i seldom watch anything more than once but this production I think I could watch it every single year. I love when the actual men are interviewed. So American, so "give yourself chills", and so sad because they are almost all gone. what guys, what unbelivable guys. we as Americans owe them so much and I am so proud/grateful.

[Andy117]

Agree wholeheartedly. The best WWII production ever. Great cast and great “story” (the truth, of course). Still waiting for a comparable production with the war in the Pacific as its focus.

The Pacific was also excellent.

[WillyBoy]

I'm a Nazi expert. They were on Pilot's Salt. Chemical name Pervitin. It was meth dude. Not speed. Major difference. They also fought about 80% plus on the Eastern front so the Americans didn't do as much as you think in that war. The Eastern front destroyed them. Let's just say if there was not an Eastern front the Americans don't win.

Put it this way. No Japan. No Soviets. Germany still wins war and you and I are never born.

Revisionist history on the March.

Put it this way. By 1944 Germany was already a vast wasteland of rubble, thanks the air forces of the U.S. and Britain, something the Soviets had little to do with; and given the weapons, armor and munitions provided to the Russians, the “Eastern front” was, in fact, an American front by proxy. Having to divide its focus and forces between the Pacific and Europe only postponed the inevitable destruction of Germany by America. All that Germany did – as always – was to start a fight it couldn’t finish, and paid – yet again – a heavy price for its completely unwarranted militaristic hubris.

[hehfest]

Revisionist history on the March.

Put it this way. By 1944 Germany was already a vast wasteland of rubble, thanks the air forces of the U.S. and Britain, something the Soviets had little to do with; and given the weapons, armor and munitions provided to the Russians, the “Eastern front” was, in fact, an American front by proxy. Having to divide its focus and forces between the Pacific and Europe only postponed the inevitable destruction of Germany by America. All that Germany did – as always – was to start a fight it couldn’t finish, and paid – yet again – a heavy price for its completely unwarranted militaristic hubris.

They should've stopped after getting back their old territories they lost after WW1. Then, nothing probably escalates. Completely disagree with Dante about the war without Soviets. The point is with no worries of Soviets the Germans would've been nearly impossible to stop. Britain was going to be destroyed. Again, the Eastern Front was where those "resources" of Germany all went. They stretched the supply lines extremely thin and the winter got them. Point is is that the war is 85% likely the Germans win the war if no Soviets.

[guitarjosh]

They should've stopped after getting back their old territories they lost after WW1. Then, nothing probably escalates. Completely disagree with Dante about the war without Soviets. The point is with no worries of Soviets the Germans would've been nearly impossible to stop. Britain was going to be destroyed. Again, the Eastern Front was where those "resources" of Germany all went. They stretched the supply lines extremely thin and the winter got them. Point is is that the war is 85% likely the Germans win the war if no Soviets.

They should have stopped in May of 1941. They couldn't destroy Britain, but Britain really couldn't do anything to them either. If they were going to attack the USSR, they should have coordinated with Japan and hit from both sides. If they would have done that or just left the USSR and us alone, the Axis Powers would have been the winners and quite happy with the outcome.

[TheLock]

They should have stopped in May of 1941. They couldn't destroy Britain, but Britain really couldn't do anything to them either. If they were going to attack the USSR, they should have coordinated with Japan and hit from both sides. If they would have done that or just left the USSR and us alone, the Axis Powers would have been the winners and quite happy with the outcome.

Bingo

[dante1]

They should've stopped after getting back their old territories they lost after WW1. Then, nothing probably escalates. Completely disagree with Dante about the war without Soviets. The point is with no worries of Soviets the Germans would've been nearly impossible to stop. Britain was going to be destroyed. Again, the Eastern Front was where those "resources" of Germany all went. They stretched the supply lines extremely thin and the winter got them. Point is is that the war is 85% likely the Germans win the war if no Soviets.

Soviets were a huge detriment to Germany. however, as I wrote Germany could not survive a long drawn out war even if just against USA and Britain and her allies. they had almost zero resources left, next, their production of war materials was incredibly small in 1945. Hitler made a mistake at every turn. he too was fcked up on drugs and being injected daily. Add to that fact we developed the A bomb and they did not.

so if your argument holds water how would they avoid being completely annihilated via atom bombs. No, they had no chance with or without the Soviets.

we will need to disagree agreeably on this one.

[dante1]

They should have stopped in May of 1941. They couldn't destroy Britain, but Britain really couldn't do anything to them either. If they were going to attack the USSR, they should have coordinated with Japan and hit from both sides. If they would have done that or just left the USSR and us alone, the Axis Powers would have been the winners and quite happy with the outcome.

correct, you make my point for me. Hitler made bad decisions and this was not the only bad decision. Hitler was obsessed with Stalin and the USSR. he hated communism almost as much as he hated jews. he was absolutely certain the German people needed living space and in his warped and drugs addled mind he believed the...rotten structure would fall easily. or similar words.

how could a man who is drugged out daily make rational decisions concerning anything. when he died he was only in his late 50's and he looked like he was 90. his personal physician made a complete and total drug addict out of him. Also he possibly treated him for a sexual disease. the man was one fckin mess and the people who think he could have defeated the USA and our allies have bought into his mystique which is basically BS.

his wonder weapons were nonsense. the V2 caused some damage and killed some people but it was not a weapon of mass destruction and it was costly and had no guidance system. his great tanks, and they were great, broke down easily and were starving for fuel. his generals knew he was insane and morale was crumbling.

[dante1]

I missed your last sentence. no, you are guessing when you claim the Axis powers would have been the winners. how? you can't make assumptions about what might have happened if this and if that. no matter what those Axis powers did they would have had to lose because the USA secured the Atom bomb before them.

so if he left the USSR alone or whatever they still get pummeled by only a few bomber aircraft carrying only a couple bombs. no scenarios has the Axis powers winning. not against the A bomb, impossible.

[guitarjosh]

correct, you make my point for me. Hitler made bad decisions and this was not the only bad decision. Hitler was obsessed with Stalin and the USSR. he hated communism almost as much as he hated jews. he was absolutely certain the German people needed living space and in his warped and drugs addled mind he believed the...rotten structure would fall easily. or similar words.

how could a man who is drugged out daily make rational decisions concerning anything. when he died he was only in his late 50's and he looked like he was 90. his personal physician made a complete and total drug addict out of him. Also he possibly treated him for a sexual disease. the man was one fckin mess and the people who think he could have defeated the USA and our allies have bought into his mystique which is basically BS.

his wonder weapons were nonsense. the V2 caused some damage and killed some people but it was not a weapon of mass destruction and it was costly and had no guidance system. his great tanks, and they were great, broke down easily and were starving for fuel. his generals knew he was insane and morale was crumbling.

Part of the problem that both sides had was they were in some ways refighting WWI. An obvious example was the French and the Maginot Line, but the Germans did similar regarding the USSR. They looked back at WWI and saw that while Germany was able to push 60-70 miles into French territory, France never actually fell. This time, France fell in 6 weeks. In WWI, Russia fell in 3.5 years, so what would happen this time? They would collapse in weeks.

The German logistics people went and told Hitler and his generals that the German army would advance about 500 miles into USSR territory, and then they would have to stop and let the supplies catch up. Then the front could advance another 50-100 miles, then stop and wait. German and USSR rail gauges were different, and they knew it would be a difficult fight as they would basically have to build brand new infrastructure to keep up with the German front.

Combine that with German industrial productivity or lack thereof (they never built a long-range 4 engine bomber), the eventual superiority of Allied engineering, and the Axis not working together as a cohesive unit basically meant they couldn't win once we and the USSR entered the war. The Japanese had no idea Hitler was going to attack the USSR, and Stalin held many troops in the east until his spies in Japan convinced him they wouldn't attack. Hitler woke up on Dec 8, got his morning briefing, and asked, "What's Pearl Harbor?".

[guitarjosh]

I missed your last sentence. no, you are guessing when you claim the Axis powers would have been the winners. how? you can't make assumptions about what might have happened if this and if that. no matter what those Axis powers did they would have had to lose because the USA secured the Atom bomb before them.

so if he left the USSR alone or whatever they still get pummeled by only a few bomber aircraft carrying only a couple bombs. no scenarios has the Axis powers winning. not against the A bomb, impossible.

Had they stopped in May of 41, they basically had the war won. Leave the USSR alone and have Japan not hit our territory. Japan would be quite happy to take territory from the English, French, and Dutch in the Pacific, and they can take more of China.

[guitarjosh]

I missed your last sentence. no, you are guessing when you claim the Axis powers would have been the winners. how? you can't make assumptions about what might have happened if this and if that. no matter what those Axis powers did they would have had to lose because the USA secured the Atom bomb before them.

so if he left the USSR alone or whatever they still get pummeled by only a few bomber aircraft carrying only a couple bombs. no scenarios has the Axis powers winning. not against the A bomb, impossible.

Here's my last sentance:

If they would have done that or just left the USSR and us alone, the Axis Powers would have been the winners and quite happy with the outcome.

When I said they, I meant the Axis Powers, not just Germany. If they leave the USA and USSR alone, they would have won the war whether they stopped in May of 1941 or continued against the British.

[Auto Donk]

yep, they woke the sleepin' giant by foolishly bombing pearl harbor......

richard pryor even got this right with his comedic take on why the japs did it (californians are pussies, and the japs had no exposure to the real men of our nation [in the south], who wouldn't put up with that shit).....

[WillyBoy]

They should've stopped after getting back their old territories they lost after WW1. Then, nothing probably escalates. Completely disagree with Dante about the war without Soviets. The point is with no worries of Soviets the Germans would've been nearly impossible to stop. Britain was going to be destroyed. Again, the Eastern Front was where those "resources" of Germany all went. They stretched the supply lines extremely thin and the winter got them. Point is is that the war is 85% likely the Germans win the war if no Soviets.

All that Germany accomplished by 1941, was overrunning countries that still depended on horse cavalries for defense. The British RAF had stopped them at the Atlantic wall (they weren’t even close to being “destroyed”). Germany might have held some of the territories it had won – if they sued for peace - but Hitler’s arrogant stupidity, launched Barbarossa, the invasion of Russia in June 1941; and after his allies the Japanese dragged the U.S. into the fight, the demolishment of Germany was assured. Supplying the Russians with American weapons, munitions and armor, made the Eastern Front an American front by proxy, and U.S. and British airpower, reduced the fatherland to the Stone Age. With a moronic narcissist like Hitler calling the shots, Germany never stood a chance.

[hehfest]

All that Germany accomplished by 1941, was overrunning countries that still depended on horse cavalries for defense. The British RAF had stopped them at the Atlantic wall (they weren’t even close to being “destroyed”). Germany might have held some of the territories it had won – if they sued for peace - but Hitler’s arrogant stupidity, launched Barbarossa, the invasion of Russia in June 1941; and after his allies the Japanese dragged the U.S. into the fight, the demolishment of Germany was assured. Supplying the Russians with American weapons, munitions and armor, made the Eastern Front an American front by proxy, and U.S. and British airpower, reduced the fatherland to the Stone Age. With a moronic narcissist like Hitler calling the shots, Germany never stood a chance.

All they had to do was wait another 10 years and keep building there military, training, tens of thousands of more planes. They had the engineering to create super weapons in that time. The biggest weapon against them was their lack of patience. They didn't need to go attack the Soviets so fast like that. It's so strange and stupid of a decision, Hitler was either a complete madman or the mustard gas that sent him to a mental hospital during ww1.....that stuff really penetrated his brain.

[IBetYou]

Saw this documentary, A Giant of the Century, a few years ago.

The narrator essentially paints Roosevelt as an affable chump! Good insight at 1:03:00, into the relationship between the big buffalo, the bear, and the little donkey (Churchill) that knows the way home.

Think America needed Russia on board just so they could strike a deal on the spoils of war -not have Russia come in at the end and loot!

[guitarjosh]

Quick question: How do you think the Axis Powers would have fared if they all worked together against the USSR and left the USA alone? I think they would have probably won eventually and been the dominant force in the Eastern Hemisphere. I doubt Zhukov could have mounted such a great counteroffensive against the Nazis in Stalingrad if he had several million troops in Siberia fighting off the Japanese, and I doubt that anyone could have mounted a land invasion of Great Britain, although I doubt GB could have done much other than defending their island.

[Fred The Hammer]

I'm a Nazi expert. They were on Pilot's Salt. Chemical name Pervitin. It was meth dude. Not speed. Major difference. They also fought about 80% plus on the Eastern front so the Americans didn't do as much as you think in that war. The Eastern front destroyed them. Let's just say if there was not an Eastern front the Americans don't win.

Put it this way. No Japan. No Soviets. Germany still wins war and you and I are never born.

Heard of these things called atomic bombs? You might be a Nazi expert, but you don't understand America's manufacturing advantage. They fought the Japs with one hand and built the worlds biggest navy and armed the Russians with the other hand. More tanks, planes, jeeps, food, boots, etc then the Nazis could produce

[Fred The Hammer]

Quick question: How do you think the Axis Powers would have fared if they all worked together against the USSR and left the USA alone? I think they would have probably won eventually and been the dominant force in the Eastern Hemisphere. I doubt Zhukov could have mounted such a great counteroffensive against the Nazis in Stalingrad if he had several million troops in Siberia fighting off the Japanese, and I doubt that anyone could have mounted a land invasion of Great Britain, although I doubt GB could have done much other than defending their island.

Great question! I've been studying WW2 for 40 years and thats one of the great what-ifs? I'm still convinced the Germans would've been screwed. Too much territory to govern and they didn't just occupy Poland/Russia/eastern Europe like they did France. They were murdering people and sending their women back to Germany to work as slaves. Thats probably 300 million people fighting to the death. The Japanese had no tanks or heavy artillery. They couldn't do much vs Russia on land. They tried Ivan before the war and Russia crushed them!

[Fred The Hammer]

The biggest what-if imo is what if Hitler listened to Admiral Raeder in 1941? He wanted to load up and take North Africa/Middle east from the British instead of attacking Russia. He said if they roll thru Cairo then that will hurt England almost as much as losing London. No fuel from the Middle East and its hard to fight a war. Also that would've allowed Germany to roll right up to Russia's oil fields in southern Russia while attacking from where they did. Lastly....1 mil Turkish soldiers were available and they fought with the Axis in WW1! They're Muslim and didn't like atheists next door like Russia. They also had anti-Semitism in common with the Germans.

Imo....Russia goes down in that scenario and England is severely crippled! Churchill said after the war that his biggest fear was when the Japanese invaded the Indian Ocean in 1942! He was convinced they were going to land in Africa or the Middle East and help the Germans take it from England.

[Fred The Hammer]

Correction:

Russian government would've fell imo, but it would've turned Russia into a never ending shitstorm that was much bigger then Vietnam or Afghanistan. How do you surrender to people who are going to murder you or enslave you anyway. The Jews went to their deaths mostly, but they didn't have the means to fight back. The Russians are tough and would just keep fighting. The Germans still get spread out and can't get to England. They get nuked in the end