Political Predictions and Red Herd Disappointment

[WillyBoy]

However “fake” you believe the number of dead may be, and however hard the CDC may start cooking numbers (like China and Russia, now that Birx has laid down the law), the “facts” of Covid 19 deaths (from a variety of truth-telling sources like Johns Hopkins), will be slapped on Trump, come November, like a rotten-sweet-potato pie in the face. If those numbers in the Fall turn as bad as predicted with a second-wave tsunami of the Coronavirus, and deaths in the U.S. start running between 400,000 and half a million, the media, which despises Trump (which he despises in turn), will hammer him bloody over his diddling response to the pandemic in February and March, and his prompting of states, now, to “reopen” before they’re ready. They will make him “own” those American deaths, regardless of whatever blame-game strategy he employs; and with the economy still in tatters, not even Wall Street and his Red Herd will save him from being a one-term president.

A Biden win in November, with Harris as VP seems pretty likely. However, assuming he’s still breathing in 2024, or even if he’s not, his “success” with Covid 19 (thanks only to a vaccine), will be old news, and the economy, and what will be, by then, the eye-popping debt of the U.S. will be the issues in the 2024 campaign. Neither Biden or Harris will have the answers, and the media, which loves Biden this year, and has never loved Harris at all, will turn on them like a rabid dog, leaving Republican prospects very healthy. Assuming Florida governor Ron DeSantis can hold the line, now, against Trump’s pressure to reopen his state recklessly (thereby keeping infections and deaths down), he could emerge as one of the few Covid 19, Republican heroes, and have a good path to the 2024 nomination. The media may try to paint him as just another Trump sycophant – which he has been - but his Covid 19 success story will be undeniable.

A far more scarier prediction is that there will be no NFL Season this year; and “NO!” I won’t bet on that, because the whole thing gives me nightmares.

[JohnGalt2341]

2 Predictions from me

1. No matter how many hundreds of thousands of people die of Covid-19 before the election Trump will say "It would have been 2.2 million deaths if it wasn't for him" and he will claim victory and his supporters will believe him. AND, he will also likely claim that the numbers are greatly inflated anyway.

2. There will be no NFL season this year.

[Sanity Check]

truth-telling sources

Almost every source that told the truth got deplatformed, banned, silenced, or is being coerced into telling lies.

[WillyBoy]

2 Predictions from me

1. No matter how many hundreds of thousands of people die of Covid-19 before the election Trump will say "It would have been 2.2 million deaths if it wasn't for him" and he will claim victory and his supporters will believe him. AND, he will also likely claim that the numbers are greatly inflated anyway.

2. There will be no NFL season this year.

1. Agree.
2. Fukk-U for adding to my nightmare.

[Slurry Pumper]

Trump was actually smart with this thing to begin with. By using the actual U.S. separation of powers like he was supposed to he now has the ability to put the blame of the paltry death count and tyrannical actions on the Democratic governors in states like PA, IL, MI, and NY. OK it won't matter in NY, but the lock down effort in blue states will give a boost to repubs. By September there will be little support for another lock down unless someone can prove that there will be millions of people croaking. By then there will be clear and present data either way so that even the media will be forced to take a objective look at the numbers maybe. My predictions:

1. The so called experts will look like fools. The trend will continue of sounding the alarm and nothing happening so people will eventually figure out that the government experts and liberal media are once again wrong as they usually are.

2. Biden will not be the man for the dems. He's out of it, and by then the Russia scandal will have put him on the sidelines.

3. The return of Hillary for another crack at Trump will fail partly due to the whole conspiracy from before looming even larger.

4. Covid will make a return after the election and probably wipe out more people than before, but still at less than 500,000 dead there will be a collective fuk you from the public.

5. The next Super Bowl will mark the return of crowds. A vaccine will be available, even though it will be totally ineffective they will sell it as a great break through so that the low information masses can think they are back to normal.

[keely85]

Let me get this right. The deaths are because democratic governors locked down their states?

Yikes. That’s an odd take.

Scientists will look like fools

Yiiiiiikes.

Hillary coming back.

Lmaooo

[keely85]

Will you cray if you think DeSantis has the right stuff to run for President. Dude can barely run Florida.

I see Haley with some knucklehead as her VP.

Then either Amy Kamala or Warren as dem candidate.

Both sides will vie for the “first woman” PR slide. GOP don’t have many good options in my opinion. Maybe Romney again? He would crush the moderate vote but the deal with the devil might have ended his run with Trump voters.

Laugh now. But they’re positioning Jared for something. My god he’s dumb. But trump jams him on EVERYTHING.

[Slurry Pumper]

Let me get this right. The deaths are because democratic governors locked down their states ?

Yeah by putting covid positive old fuks back in the nursing home to infect others, the effect will back fire when we add up Red States and Blue states tale of the tape. They won't be able to deny the fact of lesser deaths, higher herd immunity, less encroachment on freedoms.
Yikes. That’s an odd take.


Scientists will look like fools
I'm still waiting for a expert prediction that is even close to the actual facts on the ground.
Yiiiiiikes.

Hillary coming back.

This may be wishful thinking, but even nostrel dammit got a few things wrong.
Lmaooo

Crazy shit will subside and we will return to Normal, not a new normal, just normal.

[WillyBoy]

Will you cray if you think DeSantis has the right stuff to run for President. Dude can barely run Florida.

I see Haley with some knucklehead as her VP.

Then either Amy Kamala or Warren as dem candidate.

Both sides will vie for the “first woman” PR slide. GOP don’t have many good options in my opinion. Maybe Romney again? He would crush the moderate vote but the deal with the devil might have ended his run with Trump voters.

Laugh now. But they’re positioning Jared for something. My god he’s dumb. But trump jams him on EVERYTHING.

Hey – I’m an old time Lefty – and saying DeSantis is well-positioned for a run in 2024 makes my toes curl – but he has the ambition; and, by 2024, he could look even better than he does today, and that will bring the money. Besides, as Trump has shown, not having the “right stuff” to run a state - or even pack of cub scouts - and running for president and winning, really are two different things.

[fried cheese]

Let me get this right. The deaths are because democratic governors locked down their states?

Yikes. That’s an odd take.

Scientists will look like fools

Yiiiiiikes.

Hillary coming back.

Lmaooo

even johngalt is making fun of the scientists that predicted 2.2 million deaths. lockdowns are not a long term solution. they are just politicians pretending like they are doing something to help. creating realistic social distancing guidelines that are sustainable for 2+ years is the only choice.

[mwgmwalker]

There will be nfl

If Germans can play soccer the nfl will play

States have already said they will host California teams

[WillyBoy]

To all my friends in the Red Herd (you know who you are), before you jump onto the “herd immunity” bandwagon – know what that entails. It means, for example – in the U.S. - 198,600,000 infected, with 3,972,000 dead – and that’s the minimum. It also assumes “herd immunity” will mean immunity from Covid 19 and any of its variants-to-be – which would be a first for an H1N1 virus. It didn’t work for the Spanish Flu, and doesn’t for Polio, Ebola or Aids. It also assumes a vaccine happens that would be the be-all and end-all of vaccines, and that’s as likely as pigs flying. “Herd Immunity” is a theory, which – practically speaking - only the evolution of the specie, can achieve.

[fried cheese]

To all my friends in the Red Herd (you know who you are), before you jump onto the “herd immunity” bandwagon – know what that entails. It means, for example – in the U.S. - 198,600,000 infected, with 3,972,000 dead – and that’s the minimum. It also assumes “herd immunity” will mean immunity from Covid 19 and any of its variants-to-be – which would be a first for an H1N1 virus. It didn’t work for the Spanish Flu, and doesn’t for Polio, Ebola or Aids. It also assumes a vaccine happens that would be the be-all and end-all of vaccines, and that’s as likely as pigs flying. “Herd Immunity” is a theory, which – practically speaking - only the evolution of the specie, can achieve.

you just made up a 2% death rate and called it the minimum. even the worst modeling for when we do nothing was only 2.2 million.

[WillyBoy]

you just made up a 2% death rate and called it the minimum. even the worst modeling for when we do nothing was only 2.2 million.

Absolutely - good call. I was aiming for a low number, so I went with the lower "fake" percentages of China and Russia. The WHO's projected death rate is 3.5%. The "worst modeling" numbers are based on the 0.9% number, by the Imperial College, but their modeling wasn't focused on the US and UK achieving "herd immunity" levels of infections, which is what i was speaking of. True enough, at a 60% infection rate, that would come to only 2,979,000 dead, but a friggin 60% infection rate would quickly swamp hospitals, and that not happening was the mitigating factor the boys in London assumed. Well, we've seen in Italy and NY what a moderately high rate of infections meant for hospitals, and how fatalities dramatically increased as resources could not keep pace. Imagine an astronomically higher rate of infection than even they experienced. I think about 4,000,000 dead, given "Herd Immunity" infection numbers, IS a minimum.

[19th Hole]

What a crock...you assert that being Red equals professing herd immunity.
Go play with your Willy, Boy.

[WillyBoy]

What a crock...you assert that being Red equals professing herd immunity.
Go play with your Willy, Boy.

That was not my assertion, at all. But I’ve heard it more than once from card-carrying members of the Red Herd, echoing the pretty clear intentions of their Trail Boss, that “herd immunity” was, somehow, the light at the end of the Covid 19 tunnel. Well – it fukkin isn’t!! It’s the slaughterhouse at the end of the trail, where he gets paid, and the herd gets hacked into steaks and ground into Double Whoppers.

Too many years on the best pain-killers money can buy, my willy has been MIA so long, I’m afraid to look.

[Fred The Hammer]

Strange times we live in and this Nov election is just as strange:

Trump -125 / Biden +105, but

PA Biden -195
MI Biden -195
WI Biden -170
AZ Biden -145
NH Biden -170
FL Trump -135
NC Trump -155
OH Trump -195

So what gives? If Biden takes PA, MI, and WI then he wins. I don't see Arizona turning blue? Trump won by 4 pts in 2016 and its full of old Republican retirees from somewhere else. I do think Biden takes PA & Michigan. He's from Pennsylvania after all. Trump won those states and several more by 1 point so these Trump blowhards acting like its in the bag might be as surprised as Hillary's people were. I think it all comes down to the 2nd run of the virus and Biden's VP pick. Personally I hate Trump and everything he stands for, but these "woke" people on the left that wanted Bernie and full blown socialism are possibly worse. You can't blame the Chinese for this shit or you get called racist (see Bryan Adams). These fkn "woke" hipsters?? If Pearl Harbor happened now then you couldn't criticize Japan. Couldn't say we were at war with them or you're a racist. These people are fkn insane.

Is there a middleground any more?

Betting wise:

PA Biden -195 (Lock)
MN Biden -300 (Lock....MInn always goes blue)
AZ Trump +105 (nice value....see no reason why they would change direction from 2016)

[mezmurized2]

However “fake” you believe the number of dead may be, and however hard the CDC may start cooking numbers (like China and Russia, now that Birx has laid down the law), the “facts” of Covid 19 deaths (from a variety of truth-telling sources like Johns Hopkins), will be slapped on Trump, come November, like a rotten-sweet-potato pie in the face. If those numbers in the Fall turn as bad as predicted with a second-wave tsunami of the Coronavirus, and deaths in the U.S. start running between 400,000 and half a million, the media, which despises Trump (which he despises in turn), will hammer him bloody over his diddling response to the pandemic in February and March, and his prompting of states, now, to “reopen” before they’re ready. They will make him “own” those American deaths, regardless of whatever blame-game strategy he employs; and with the economy still in tatters, not even Wall Street and his Red Herd will save him from being a one-term president.

A Biden win in November, with Harris as VP seems pretty likely. However, assuming he’s still breathing in 2024, or even if he’s not, his “success” with Covid 19 (thanks only to a vaccine), will be old news, and the economy, and what will be, by then, the eye-popping debt of the U.S. will be the issues in the 2024 campaign.
Neither Biden or Harris will have the answers, and the media, which loves Biden this year, and has never loved Harris at all, will turn on them like a rabid dog, leaving Republican prospects very healthy.

Assuming Florida governor Ron DeSantis can hold the line, now, against Trump’s pressure to reopen his state recklessly (thereby keeping infections and deaths down), he could emerge as one of the few Covid 19, Republican heroes, and have a good path to the 2024 nomination. The media may try to paint him as just another Trump sycophant – which he has been - but his Covid 19 success story will be undeniable.

Very plausible.

But just for "sh!tts & giggles" suppose after Biden routs Adolf in November (with Warren as #2)
then shortly after inauguration they develop a vaccine!...and Biden/Warren bend heaven & hell to mass produce and innoculate *FREE* in lightning speed, nationwide.....Biden offers cabinet positions to several Republicans - including Mitt Romney, Meghan McCain, and John Kasich - as well as several moderate Republicans to serve as "deputy assistants" to Dems in various administration positions....

At the State of the Union, Biden introduces guest, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.... Announces tossing out the failed "trickle down" economics of the Trump and previous Republican regimes and his team begins inacting measures that actually help the 99% - yes, including business & corporations, but especially small businesses..... Announces adoption of Warren's "2cents" tax plan (generate massive revenues!)! ....Announces ObamaCare will immediately include a public option and all residents are free to shop for insurance in any US state....Announces gov't supported 50% lowered insurance premiums & deductibles to all adult citizens who achieve & maintain a healthy bodyweight.... Announces immediate 33% increased TAX on sugar and products containing sugar-related and fat-laden obesity related snack-food products....Announces US will re-sign into the Paris Climate Accord and restore all Obama climate or health related measures which Trump dropped....Announces very aggresive nationwide jobs program (including re-training) upgrading and repairing infrastructure PLUS incentives for businesses and technologies in renewable sources of power....Announces Fareed Zakaria as WH press secretary and instructs him to always give first Q to a FOX news reporter and be polite to *all* media at *all* times (thus completely reversing the deliberately antagonistic policy of the Trump regime)....The MEDIA rejoices!

The ECONOMY begins the inevitable turnaroundbut faster than expected!
....Biden/Warren get a bill passed to raise minimum wage $15/hr nationally.... People rejoice!
....Biden gets Kamala Harris confirmed as the new Attorney General and her first order of business is to investigate former AG Barr then reveal Trump's long promised tax returns on TV; compel testimony from Don McGahn (proves Trump corruption); investigate Trump for fraud and Emoluments clause violations; and more real justice than we've seen in 4 years....Biden offers old jobs back to those good civil servants wrongfully terminated or demoted by Trump -- that alone reduces unemployment rate by 1% pt!....Those who believe in justice rejoice!....Biden removes Trumps harmful tarriffs.....Farmers rejoice!.....Spring arrives!....Stock market inches upward - slowly, but steadily!....MLB returns with packed stadiums Opening Day!....SBR rejoices!..... Hollywood productions are back in full swing!.....Movie theatres and concerts return packed!....Life is changing for the better day-by-day!!!....CNN and MSNBC are covering *daily* all the feel good stories about local & national optimism and real changes that are making lives of the 99% better!!....
Both Secretary of State, Bernie Sanders, and VP Warren are sent around the world in 80 days to restore good relations with our allies....Allies rejoice! ......Then the long awaited return of NCAA and NFL football, followed by NHL, NBA, and college hoops!....SBR rejoices more! .... Travel & tourism rebounds in a big way!!!

Progress continues yearly....The DOW reaches historic 30,000!!!..... GDP growth rises to average an excellent 2.7% in 3rd and 4th years.... Unemployment drops every month and falls to 3.3% early in 4th year.... Annual deficits drop to near zero in 3rd year and begin chipping away at National debt.... Tom Brady wins SuperBowl with new team, Cleveland Browns....The dog pound rejoices!....Hospitalizations, deaths, and costs to governments from heart conditions, strokes, diabetes, and "obesity-related" conditions plummet dramatically!!!....Crime rate falls significantly! ....Average household net income is 12% higher (inflation adjusted) than Trump years *AND* personal debt falls significantly.....
America rises up the rankings of World's Happiest Countries from 19th to 8th....Fox News criticizes everything saying it's all "socialism" so we should hate what's happening to America and demand our freedoms at a big FOX rally of 12 MAGA-hat-wearing rednecks....


January 2024, Biden/Warren endorse Governor Andrew Cuomo for president on 2024 ticket


75.1 MILLION legal citizens vote Cuomo!
41.1 million legal citizens vote Republican
.

Electoral College declare Republican winner by 1 electoral vote.


...FOX News hosts immediately declare a " glorious victory for Freedom & Democracy!!! "

.

.
.

[fried cheese]

Absolutely - good call. I was aiming for a low number, so I went with the lower "fake" percentages of China and Russia. The WHO's projected death rate is 3.5%. The "worst modeling" numbers are based on the 0.9% number, by the Imperial College, but their modeling wasn't focused on the US and UK achieving "herd immunity" levels of infections, which is what i was speaking of. True enough, at a 60% infection rate, that would come to only 2,979,000 dead, but a friggin 60% infection rate would quickly swamp hospitals, and that not happening was the mitigating factor the boys in London assumed. Well, we've seen in Italy and NY what a moderately high rate of infections meant for hospitals, and how fatalities dramatically increased as resources could not keep pace. Imagine an astronomically higher rate of infection than even they experienced. I think about 4,000,000 dead, given "Herd Immunity" infection numbers, IS a minimum.

wow, you are projecting trump to save a minimum of over 3.5 million lives. how can he not get re-elected?

[mezmurized2]

2 Predictions from me

1. No matter how many hundreds of thousands of people die of Covid-19

before the election Trump will say: "It would have been 2.2 million deaths if it wasn't for him"

and he will claim victory

and his supporters will believe him.

AND, he will also likely claim that the numbers are greatly inflated anyway.

Echo that.

He will also claim triumphantly that it was HIS quick & decisive action to BAN *all* flights
from China, which prevented the spread of the infection and thus saved many thousands of lives.
His new minister of propaganda, Kayleigh McEnany, will be head cheerleader and "mocker"
of any media that dares say different.

He (and FUX News) will of course *ignore* the FACT that he permitted 40,000+
US citizens to RETURN FROM CHINA -- including freakn' Wuhan -- and provide
insufficient screening as well as NO TESTING and NO MANDATORY QUARANTINE
just in case there were carriers but who were Asymptomatic...


...and even worse,

leaving the backdoor to the chicken coop WIDE-effing-OPEN by allowing all
other flights to bring "potentially infected passengers" from Europe into USA -
particularly to the number one incoming arrival destination -- NEW YORK !!
...also without sufficient screening, NO mandatory testing, and
NO mandatory quarantines.


Thus....we can conclude, Trump is clearly the hero and Cuomo is totally at fault.


....oh yeah....and Hunter Biden too
.

[nyplayer33]

Biden has dementia or the start of

[WillyBoy]

wow, you are projecting trump to save a minimum of over 3.5 million lives. how can he not get re-elected?

Huh? If I were “projecting” anything, it would obviously be the reverse. His aversion to testing and his ‘quick-get-back-to-work’ inclinations, are precisely the “herd immunity” goals his has in mind – with sky’s-the-limit infections and deaths. If he were to change course now, a case might be made that he’s “saved lives” (albeit thanks to state governors and Americans of common sense), in the same way he takes credit for the pre Covid 19 economy. However, continuing to point toward the deadly light of “herd immunity” as the way out of the Coronavirus tunnel, will likely kill his chances in November.

[WillyBoy]

Biden has dementia or the start of

Either that or he’s always been dumb as dirt - which accurately describes Trump as well, and the Red Herd he leads. Like cheese and crackers, American politics and flaming stupidity always go hand-in-hand.

[fried cheese]

Huh? If I were “projecting” anything, it would obviously be the reverse. His aversion to testing and his ‘quick-get-back-to-work’ inclinations, are precisely the “herd immunity” goals his has in mind – with sky’s-the-limit infections and deaths. If he were to change course now, a case might be made that he’s “saved lives” (albeit thanks to state governors and Americans of common sense), in the same way he takes credit for the pre Covid 19 economy. However, continuing to point toward the deadly light of “herd immunity” as the way out of the Coronavirus tunnel, will likely kill his chances in November.

so you think there will be more than 500k deaths this year from covid-19? you said 4 million deaths was the minimum if we did nothing and most ppl got infected. that would be 3.5 million lives prolonged under his presidency this year if it stays under 500k deaths.

[hostile takeover]

Great. Another thread with libs openly hoping for more death.

[WillyBoy]

so you think there will be more than 500k deaths this year from covid-19? you said 4 million deaths was the minimum if we did nothing and most ppl got infected. that would be 3.5 million lives prolonged under his presidency this year if it stays under 500k deaths.

Well, I never said 4mil dead this year. That would be the number over the course of the disease, on the way to glorious “herd immunity”. But right, if Trump has his way, he’ll kill 500,000 this year, and will have killed 4,000,000 by, say, 2024? His studied inaction in February and March won’t reverse the results, and nothing, short of a cure, will. Actually, at this point, it probably won’t make much difference who’s president. As economic pressures mount, governors will reopen their states more quickly and recklessly, increasing Covid 19 infection spread and death – and what’s any president to do? Blame China and Obama - and then claim victory?

[Swaggy P]

joe biden 2020!

[rkelly110]

Any body butt rump!

[fried cheese]

Well, I never said 4mil dead this year. That would be the number over the course of the disease, on the way to glorious “herd immunity”. But right, if Trump has his way, he’ll kill 500,000 this year, and will have killed 4,000,000 by, say, 2024? His studied inaction in February and March won’t reverse the results, and nothing, short of a cure, will. Actually, at this point, it probably won’t make much difference who’s president. As economic pressures mount, governors will reopen their states more quickly and recklessly, increasing Covid 19 infection spread and death – and what’s any president to do? Blame China and Obama - and then claim victory?

What will it take to achieve herd immunity with SARS-CoV-2?
As with any other infection, there are two ways to achieve herd immunity: A large proportion of the population either gets infected or gets a protective vaccine. Based on early estimates of this virus’s infectiousness, we will likely need at least 70% of the population to be immune to have herd protection.

In the worst case (for example, if we do not perform physical distancing or enact other measures to slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2), the virus can infect this many people in a matter of a few months. This would overwhelm our hospitals and lead to high death rates."

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/artic...h-covid19.html

[Slurry Pumper]

If this new vaccine works out, it would be a game changer and we could all go out and start breathing on other people again. Biden could come out of the basement if he can find the door. Even democratic states could open up unless they could find another excuse to keep their citizens under house arrest. The economy could snap back in record time and the Trumpenator would come out of this looking quite good. I think the suicide rate from the libs would rise but those are some of the most useless people anyways so we won't miss them.

[WillyBoy]

A vaccine now would be a game changer, but a more likely, though optimistic, date would be October.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200515/pfizer-says-covid-19-vaccine-could-arrive-in-october

Everything has to go right, of course; it has to work, and then there’s its manufacture and wide distribution; but, if all goes well, there still might be an, albeit shortened, NFL season – and Trump, Biden, and this thread can all go to hell – lol.

[StackinGreen]

To all my friends in the Red Herd (you know who you are), before you jump onto the “herd immunity” bandwagon – know what that entails. It means, for example – in the U.S. - 198,600,000 infected, with 3,972,000 dead – and that’s the minimum. It also assumes “herd immunity” will mean immunity from Covid 19 and any of its variants-to-be – which would be a first for an H1N1 virus. It didn’t work for the Spanish Flu, and doesn’t for Polio, Ebola or Aids. It also assumes a vaccine happens that would be the be-all and end-all of vaccines, and that’s as likely as pigs flying. “Herd Immunity” is a theory, which – practically speaking - only the evolution of the specie, can achieve.

Ferguson? Mr. Neil Ferguson? Is that you? You got relegated to posting at SBR?

This is one of the most hysterical and dumbest posts I've seen in a long time. Zero understanding of the numbers, science of respiratory diseases, and worst of all total refusal of the countless times Willy's favorite experts have been wrong. When you're unrepentant, no one can save you.

[MinnesotaFats]

Guys

Desantis is DOA in Florida 2022

The unemployment checks still aren't going out to the bartenders....that's his voting block. All the 18-40 FEMALE bartenders are who put him over the top. Hes going to lose 1.5 million votes in FL over this.

[BigJay]

Trump was actually smart

This is where I stopped reading.

[mtneer1212]

Will you cray if you think DeSantis has the right stuff to run for President. Dude can barely run Florida.

I see Haley with some knucklehead as her VP.

Then either Amy Kamala or Warren as dem candidate.

Both sides will vie for the “first woman” PR slide. GOP don’t have many good options in my opinion. Maybe Romney again? He would crush the moderate vote but the deal with the devil might have ended his run with Trump voters.

Laugh now. But they’re positioning Jared for something. My god he’s dumb. But trump jams him on EVERYTHING.

Here is a drag queen's take on Ron DeSantis's opponent in the last election, who he only beat by 1%.......... it's worth a watch, lol