What the Hell is going on in Ferguson, Missouri?

[jtoler]

Jaywalking wasn't the cause of the shooting. Have to look at the escalation and put yourself there. If you're the cop sitting down and struggling, whether or not its the 'tug of war' described by the friend or a fight as described by the officer, regardless you are in a bad position and in the own words of Dorian, while they were struggling he was standing right there inches from the officer as well because he states that when the officer yells i'm going to shoot, he looked down and saw it up close himself...so if you're in a fight one vs two and they are talking back and forth with the larger guy asking the smaller one to hold his items so he can have free hands...and then once the shot is fired, you wait and exit the vehicle and the people are still right there...gotta ask if the cop just wanted to kill everyone out of racial hatred, why did he not shoot Dorian as well.

Uhh because Dorian was engaged with him and trying to free his arm? Ask yourself this, had this be say 10 and 11 year old white kids do you think he kills one? Absolutely not. 10 and 11 year old black kids, probably/possibly, therefore there is a large bias going on here.

[Boner_18]

Kid looks dangerous. Was he given the opportunity to submit? Probably justified, cops have a difficult job.

[Boner_18]

Uhh because Dorian was engaged with him and trying to free his arm? Ask yourself this, had this be say 10 and 11 year old white kids do you think he kills one? Absolutely not. 10 and 11 year old black kids, probably/possibly, therefore there is a large bias going on here.

Completely changing the facts and then making a declaratory conclusion to the new hypothetical does not properly invoke a "therefore."

[itchypickle]

Uhh because Dorian was engaged with him and trying to free his arm? Ask yourself this, had this be say 10 and 11 year old white kids do you think he kills one? Absolutely not. 10 and 11 year old black kids, probably/possibly, therefore there is a large bias going on here.

Well considering they were 22 years old (Dorian) and 18 and a large man (Brown) that comparison doesn't really fit. And doubtful 11 year old white kids in the burbs would disobey the initial warning to get out of the road...trailer park maybe but even there white kids normally know better. Can't act like there isn't a rooted in anti-cop mentality in most of these type of towns. No secret. Big difference in the communities where cops can stop and chit chat with residents about gardens or local school events with their kids vs Ferguson.

[jtoler]

Well considering they were 22 years old (Dorian) and 18 and a large man (Brown) that comparison doesn't really fit. And doubtful 11 year old white kids in the burbs would disobey the initial warning to get out of the road...trailer park maybe but even there white kids normally know better. Can't act like there isn't a rooted in anti-cop mentality in most of these type of towns. No secret. Big difference in the communities where cops can stop and chit chat with residents about gardens or local school events with their kids vs Ferguson.

Look at your statements, totally stereotypical. Please never become a cop or anyone with any sense of authority over another human being.

[jtoler]

Completely changing the facts and then making a declaratory conclusion to the new hypothetical does not properly invoke a "therefore."

Kid looks dangerous. Was he given the opportunity to submit? Probably justified, cops have a difficult job.

Uhh thats what you just did with this statement. Looks dangerous? So if someone "looks" dangerous they should be killed. I get it.

[Boner_18]

Wow. You are a logic wizard. Nothing gets passed you. Do you teach classes?

But seriously, you don't understand the difference between changing a perps age (and color) then summarily concluding your new hypothetical, and allowing individuals to make subjective judgment?

Please tell me you understand the difference between subjectivity (looks dangerous) and objectivity (age, skin color). I'm not talking about this case, I mean in the abstract. You realize the difference between blue vs. Red and colors I like vs colors I dont like. Right?

[jtoler]

Wow. You are a logic wizard. Nothing gets passed you. Do you teach classes?

But seriously, you don't understand the difference between changing a perps age (and color) then summarily concluding your new hypothetical, and allowing individuals to make subjective judgment?

Please tell me you understand the difference between subjectivity (looks dangerous) and objectivity (age, skin color). I'm not talking about this case, I mean in the abstract. You realize the difference between blue vs. Red and colors I like vs colors I dont like. Right?

No need to get cute, bottom line this was a murder that didnt need to happen. This type stuff happens all the time with cops and hardly ever anything is done about it.

[TheCentaur]

I don't trust cops but I trust some neck tatted up gangster speak blacks walking down the middle of the road at 1:30 AM a lot less

[jtoler]

I don't trust cops but I trust some neck tatted up gangster speak blacks walking down the middle of the road at 1:30 AM a lot less

Then there's not much youre not afraid of, probably even the dark.

[itchypickle]

Look at your statements, totally stereotypical. Please never become a cop or anyone with any sense of authority over another human being.

You're a liar if you've never questioned someones motives or lifestyle based on looks..its human nature. I'll repeat though...the jaywalking was NOT the reason he was shot...the physical altercation changed that and we still don't know exactly what took place in the remaining seconds....the fact that the police/FBI are just letting the media have at it tends to lean that they have it on camera or recorded and will let the truth out soon enough. Don't you think if the officer did just roll up and get out blazing yelling racial slurs the police would stand by and let the town burn and riots and chants of kill the police? Of course not, they'd offer the officer up already. Let it play out.

And as far as how someone looks, absolutely matters. If you walk into a bank tomorrow and behind the counter stands a man wearing a black hoodie and gloves with a tattoo of a swastika on his cheek...are you going to walk up and smile saying 'top of the morning to ya sir' or are you going to look around thinking you walked into an ongoing robbery? Same thing as a cop...you're in a high crime area daily, you are suddenly engaged hands on with two adults...not wearing a LaCoste polo and flip flops but a wife beater dreads and tattoos of skulls and other violent images all over....you're gonna know your're not dealing with Carlton from Fresh Prince pal. Just the reality of it.

[jtoler]

You're a liar if you've never questioned someones motives or lifestyle based on looks..its human nature. I'll repeat though...the jaywalking was NOT the reason he was shot...the physical altercation changed that and we still don't know exactly what took place in the remaining seconds....the fact that the police/FBI are just letting the media have at it tends to lean that they have it on camera or recorded and will let the truth out soon enough. Don't you think if the officer did just roll up and get out blazing yelling racial slurs the police would stand by and let the town burn and riots and chants of kill the police? Of course not, they'd offer the officer up already. Let it play out.

And as far as how someone looks, absolutely matters. If you walk into a bank tomorrow and behind the counter stands a man wearing a black hoodie and gloves with a tattoo of a swastika on his cheek...are you going to walk up and smile saying 'top of the morning to ya sir' or are you going to look around thinking you walked into an ongoing robbery? Same thing as a cop...you're in a high crime area daily, you are suddenly engaged hands on with two adults...not wearing a LaCoste polo and flip flops but a wife beater dreads and tattoos of skulls and other violent images all over....you're gonna know your're not dealing with Carlton from Fresh Prince pal. Just the reality of it.

Wrong, its funny you dismiss the eyewitness accounts of him running away from the cop with his hands up, he was then shot in the back multiple times. When the chief was asked how many times Brown was shot his answer was more than a couple times but not many more than that, lol what an answer. Killed because he was black, happened around 2:15 in the afternoon.

I cant tell you how many times Ive been pulled over for routine traffic violations(in some instances no traffic violation occurred) and asked that my car be searched, asked alot of questionable things, had backup come with dogs wanting to search, all because of skin color. Nothing menacing about me, Ive seen racism alot, funny though when whites and other races have learned of my credentials from others, and seen the cars Ive driven, I immediately have seen them act different, favorable and kind towards me, even cops. So its a presumable thought pattern amongst such people, a sterotypical mindset from the start that hinders their ability to think rationally.

[jtoler]

And no I dont judge people based on appearance, thats just stupid, Im wiser than that. So youre telling me the only reason Brown was killed was because of his size and tattoos? Lol ok. There's a guy I work with who has a neck tattoo, hired on by a white supervisor, I never knew him, didnt think anything of the tattoo, basing things off appearance will get you in more trouble than you think, the guy is as docile as a newborn puppy.

[brooks85]

law enforcement is the largest organized gang in this country and their version of the freemason's is the DEA.

Here is an easy, clear, non-bias, way to deduce this.

I live right outside one of the wealthiest counties in the whole country. Was top 20 in 2010. The law enforcement there are not required by law to have video cams on their cars.

Take a guess if they have video cameras on their car or not?

They sure bought extra weapons and ammo tho with all those scary rich white people about.

[jtoler]

law enforcement is the largest organized gang in this country and their version of the freemason's is the DEA.

Here is an easy, clear, non-bias, way to deduce this.

I live right outside one of the wealthiest counties in the whole country. Was top 20 in 2010. The law enforcement there are not required by law to have video cams on their cars.

Take a guess if they have video cameras on their car or not?

They sure bought extra weapons and ammo tho with all those scary rich white people about.

I live just outside of a community thats ranked 9th amongst wealthiest communities in the U.S. Really no blacks live there, Ive never seen a white person pulled over by cops there only black, seems strange. I remember I used to go through there to go home because it was quicker, Im driving 30 mph, the speed limit, I see a cop drift in behind me and sure enough he hits the lights. I pull over and he says "You know you crossed the yellow line 7 times." Knowing this is a lie and knowing I didnt cross it once and having been harassed many times before I was angry and yelled back that I didnt, he seemed shocked at this reaction and knowing he was lying to begin with, he says ok ok sir ok have a good day and I drive off. Lol it was 10:30 pm, where is the sobriety test or anything if what you said is correct, didnt ask for license or registration, just wanting me to be a dummy and comply. These type shouldnt be cops.

[Kermit]

Here comes the next one, this time in L.A.

[Kermit]

Police Officer Caught On Video Calling Michael Brown Protesters 'F***ing Animals'

Oh boy.

[jtoler]

Here comes the next one, this time in L.A.

Sad, another murder. I still remember this one.

[Kermit]

Sad, another murder. I still remember this one.

What is the back story on that one?

[Kermit]

And no I dont judge people based on appearance, thats just stupid, Im wiser than that. So youre telling me the only reason Brown was killed was because of his size and tattoos? Lol ok. There's a guy I work with who has a neck tattoo, hired on by a white supervisor, I never knew him, didnt think anything of the tattoo, basing things off appearance will get you in more trouble than you think, the guy is as docile as a newborn puppy.

There are reports now that the officer was treated at the hospital for facial injuries. Now I don't know if that justified this shooting or not, but if the officer was in fact assaulted and beat up, then Dorian Johnson's story isn't entirely truthful.

[Boner_18]

And no I dont judge people based on appearance, thats just stupid, Im wiser than that. So youre telling me the only reason Brown was killed was because of his size and tattoos? Lol ok. There's a guy I work with who has a neck tattoo, hired on by a white supervisor, I never knew him, didnt think anything of the tattoo, basing things off appearance will get you in more trouble than you think, the guy is as docile as a newborn puppy.

This is the most naive and impractical thing ive ever heard. If only the police had the luxury. Do you not believe there is such thing as a suspicious or menacing character. In your world Bernard Goetz was at fault for being "asked" for five dollars. I'm not saying this kid deserved to die or mistakes weren't made but Christ, take off the rose glasses. Policing is hard fukking work. They live their entire life in a gray area that people like you don't know about because you don't know what crime is.

[jtoler]

What is the back story on that one?

Memory is cloudy but I think they either followed him home or went there to arrest him or question him. Silly they were standing over him for like 10 minutes with guns drawn and acting as if he was gonna somehow pop up and attack, he was clearly dead, seems the cop knew he did wrong but was trying to act as if he really needed to use the overkill that he did. I think he said the victim had a knife, but the victim didnt and if he did his life still wasnt in danger, I think the victim's leg as caught in the seat belt, no threat of the cop's life at all. People like that shouldnt be cops and they should be profiled extensively before they can be cops somehow someway.

[jtoler]

There are reports now that the officer was treated at the hospital for facial injuries. Now I don't know if that justified this shooting or not, but if the officer was in fact assaulted and beat up, then Dorian Johnson's story isn't entirely truthful.

Fact is that he was said to have been running away with hands up, dont think its right to shoot and kill somebody that is unarmed like that, even if the cop was hit the entire situation doesnt warrant what happened if you ask me. Like the Zimmerman case, I could care less if he got beat up, its a situation he started and caused to escalate, its something that didnt have to happen.

Why didnt the cop call backup? Ive had backup called on me on more than one occasion for a simple traffic violation.

[jtoler]

This is the most naive and impractical thing ive ever heard. If only the police had the luxury. Do you not believe there is such thing as a suspicious or menacing character. In your world Bernard Goetz was at fault for being "asked" for five dollars. I'm not saying this kid deserved to die or mistakes weren't made but Christ, take off the rose glasses. Policing is hard fukking work. They live their entire life in a gray area that people like you don't know about because you don't know what crime is.

Bottom line if you have built up stereotypes and prejudge before knowing then you shouldnt be a cop or person in authority, your tainted presumptions are always going to cause you to make bad decisions. Nothing naive about what I said, youve proven that youre bigoted and prejudice, by your statements youd be intimidated by Carmelo Anthony if you didnt know him, until you found out who he was and Im sure would start asking for autographs.

[Kermit]

Fact is that he was said to have been running away with hands up, dont think its right to shoot and kill somebody that is unarmed like that, even if the cop was hit the entire situation doesnt warrant what happened if you ask me. Like the Zimmerman case, I could care less if he got beat up, its a situation he started and caused to escalate, its something that didnt have to happen.

Why didnt the cop call backup? Ive had backup called on me on more than one occasion for a simple traffic violation.

If the cop shot him in the back, then that is pretty much the deciding factor. I can see being enraged and shooting someone if they beat you up, but if they are running away from you and you shoot them in the back, I don't see any way possible that can be justified.

[itchypickle]

The reports of the facial injury are EXACTLY why I said hold off til we get the full story. As far as the "eyewitness" testimony they normally only see the end not the whole event and as we all know by laughing at episodes of COPS, stories vary even when caught on video stealing bait cars people swear it's not them and racist police are lying.

If he doesn't have injuries and just kills the guy...I'll repeat, send him to trial. But if he was hit in the face, automatic frlony right there, and with weapon involved it changes things from a neighborhood fist fight rule to life or death rules.

[Kermit]

As far as the "jaywalking" thing goes, I don't believe that it was so much of them actually jaywalking as it was intimidation to drivers. I know they had problems with this in Detroit when groups of black men and youths would make drivers go around them. I think it is just a safety issue for everyone involved.

[jtoler]

The reports of the facial injury are EXACTLY why I said hold off til we get the full story. As far as the "eyewitness" testimony they normally only see the end not the whole event and as we all know by laughing at episodes of COPS, stories vary even when caught on video stealing bait cars people swear it's not them and racist police are lying.

If he doesn't have injuries and just kills the guy...I'll repeat, send him to trial. But if he was hit in the face, automatic frlony right there, and with weapon involved it changes things from a neighborhood fist fight rule to life or death rules.

Doesnt matter if he was beat up, if the guy was running with hands up you dont shoot multiple times and kill. Why do you think on Cops, every episode they are chasing someone on foot and not shooting at them, well number one is because they are being filmed and will be on tv later, but number 2 they know they will catch them. The guy would have been caught, remember he's 300 lbs as so many freely bring up to back up menacing, so he would be caught, if the cop wants to rough him up when he catches him, fine, but dont shoot this kid, kid was days away from attending his first college classes.

[Ralphie Halves]

Dead on.

[ColdBeerHere]

One of these days the looters are going to go into a store, and the owner will be waiting for them with a gun.

[Fidel_CashFlow]

this thread has became EXACTLY what it was intended to become when it was first submitted

[Kermit]

this thread has became EXACTLY what it was intended to become when it was first submitted

Was there a different way that I should have presented it? I made it to discuss what the rioting was all about. I didn't even know a cop shot a teen until after it was submitted. If the cop was in the wrong and shot this kid in the back, I want to see him go down just like the rest of the people in Ferguson do.

[itchypickle]

Doesnt matter if he was beat up, if the guy was running with hands up you dont shoot multiple times and kill. Why do you think on Cops, every episode they are chasing someone on foot and not shooting at them, well number one is because they are being filmed and will be on tv later, but number 2 they know they will catch them. The guy would have been caught, remember he's 300 lbs as so many freely bring up to back up menacing, so he would be caught, if the cop wants to rough him up when he catches him, fine, but dont shoot this kid, kid was days away from attending his first college classes.

How do we know for certain he was running with hands up...thats my point, lets find out everything first. Until today we've only heard there was no struggle, then there was but the officer want hit, now he is...and on the hands up running, we heard initially he was shot in the back first, now we've heard the arm, then the back then the front...multiple accounts. Also on the hands up, initially he was kneeling in the street with hands up saying hes unarmed...then he was running, now Dorian I believe said he was just standing and turned to put them up thats when the shots came....see how muddy the picture is? Just wait and then form the opinion.

[Kermit]

Interesting

Anonymous released alleged audio from St. Louis County Police dispatch, from the day Michael Brown was killed

[jtoler]

How do we know for certain he was running with hands up...thats my point, lets find out everything first. Until today we've only heard there was no struggle, then there was but the officer want hit, now he is...and on the hands up running, we heard initially he was shot in the back first, now we've heard the arm, then the back then the front...multiple accounts. Also on the hands up, initially he was kneeling in the street with hands up saying hes unarmed...then he was running, now Dorian I believe said he was just standing and turned to put them up thats when the shots came....see how muddy the picture is? Just wait and then form the opinion.

Only thing I needed to know that the cop's life wasnt in danger.