GOD

[brainfreeze]

C.S. Lewis :
“There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.”

[brainfreeze]

Why did Jesus talk in parables ?



Matt 13:10-11
And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Luke 8:10
He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’

[Triple_D_Bet]

In bold...

Theres better ways tripper, look at this guy, he has a new invention with a pesticide that is organic using " mushrooms " rather then the crap their spraying all over our food, and instead of using hybrid seeds, this is a healthy alternative, question is ... WHY ARENT WE HEARING MORE ABOUT IT ?

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/infoservices/pesticidesandyou/Winter06-07/fungi.pdf

another thing, quick fact, did you know bill gates dad was a leader for " planned parenthood ". Just some things to consider bud... This stuff goes beyond distorted evolution

No, i only watched the first video about Chappelle, thought that was what you were talking about.

If you're not interested in that point of view (which I think we both agree on), that's fine...but please realize that if you're not interested in reading the proof, continuing to deny it only makes you look foolish.

I've said nothing about big bang theory, cloning, GMOs, etc. Every time you go off into them, I try to steer the conversation back. There's plenty of discussion to be had on each of those topics; now that you've conceded you simply don't want to understand evolution and are therefore unjustified in your rejection of it, maybe we should move on to talking about those topics instead?

Interesting link to the pesticide. I assume I haven't heard about it for several reasons, not the least being that I don't shop for that stuff myself. It's important to note that his application seems limited to household use, not farming. Also important to observe that this isn't "natural", but was specifically bred and developed by him (that's called genetic engineering). Presumably, if someone manages to find an application that will take care of common farming pests, it will become more widely adopted, although there will no doubt be some pressure from Monsato etc. looking to protect their market share. What's your point here?

Regarding Bill Gates' dad, looks like he served on the board of planned Parenthood, as well as a few other organizations. Not sure where you're going with that, but so far you seem correct.

[Triple_D_Bet]

C.S. Lewis :
“There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.”

Or to paraphrase: "I believe in the supernatural, those I present as little proof as anyone else; you should too"

Why did Jesus talk in parables ?



Matt 13:10-11
And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Luke 8:10
He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’

Makes him sound like a bit of a dick doesn't it? I wonder if that's the foundation of the time-honored Christian tradition of "we're special because we know the truth"? Human nature, you can get people to believe all sorts of crazy shit if you convince them they're part of an elite group which is superior to others.

Anyhoo, not sure what your Q&A session is supposed to be saying here....but if we're going to give the answer from our favorite fictional books, I'd prefer to think Jesus picked up the habit of parables from the second wise man during his Buddhist training (according to Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal). Certainly makes more sense, not to mention filling in the decades where the bible kinda forgets about Jesus.

[brainfreeze]

No, i only watched the first video about Chappelle, thought that was what you were talking about.

Well, chappelle beats around the bush because he doesn't understand the full grasp of things. He understands something is dysfunctional and he's questioning it... If you will watch the first two minutes of video number 2, that's the shoreline version from a testimony of a different guy that understands the Bible.

If you're not interested in that point of view (which I think we both agree on), that's fine...but please realize that if you're not interested in reading the proof, continuing to deny it only makes you look foolish.

Well, let's move on then because we won't agree on this, if you think the scientist at Berkeley just don't understand evolution and they are denying it because of ignorance so be it, as for me, there's no telling me I have ape ancestors, none, no chance... So let's move on.

I've said nothing about big bang theory, cloning, GMOs, etc. Every time you go off into them, I try to steer the conversation back. There's plenty of discussion to be had on each of those topics; now that you've conceded you simply don't want to understand evolution and are therefore unjustified in your rejection of it, maybe we should move on to talking about those topics instead?

Well let's talk about it, because we are getting no where with evolution, so yes, moving on... This thread has been through evolution for like the third time. I'm still siding with the creationist outlook, because I take God for His word. He said He made the world in six days and rested on the 7th, and that's what it is for me.

Interesting link to the pesticide. I assume I haven't heard about it for several reasons, not the least being that I don't shop for that stuff myself. It's important to note that his application seems limited to household use, not farming. Also important to observe that this isn't "natural", but was specifically bred and developed by him (that's called genetic engineering). Presumably, if someone manages to find an application that will take care of common farming pests, it will become more widely adopted, although there will no doubt be some pressure from Monsato etc. looking to protect their market share. What's your point here?

. Your points are interesting, because I'm not for genetically modified mushrooms, why can't we just go back to the way we used to do things before monsantos this is ridiculous... I'm kind of aggravated a little now because that got by me, always seems to be a evil involved today, with one seeming to be a lesser. Just ridiculous, now people want to genetically modify and engineer everything... Sick of it. There has to be another way, for organic on a mass scale, very big green houses, idk... but I'm sick of this...moving on.

Regarding Bill Gates' dad, looks like he served on the board of planned Parenthood, as well as a few other organizations. Not sure where you're going with that, but so far you seem correct.

what do you mean your not sure what I'm getting at ? Bills a billionaire that talks population control and his pops was on the board for planned parenthood... Your not seeing a similarity there, " death to humanity ".

.

Unreal.... In bold

[boomer62]

Good stuff Brainfreeze, bless you! I've always said that all of life's answers are in the bible. Parables are very powerful because the mind thinks in pictures and we all can understand a story with meaning and the life lesson behind it.
I acknowledge you for who you are being and trying to help and get others to think and bring them closer to The Lord. I like to keep things simple that GOD IS LOVE and is present in all of us. We have a divine nature that is very powerful and have constant access to this if we stay connected to our source, which is very hard today. GOD is love, peace, joy, and happiness and we collectively connect with other's on this spiritual level. It's not about rules or being good,etc. The church and religion in general has distorted many of these truths that the unbelievers don't understand or get turned off. We all are God's creation and here to spread LOVE. The opposite of love is FEAR, where the devil comes in. The ego is a separation from our source GOD. We all have ego's and think we know better and are in control. The ego, FEAR, is our downfall and gets us into trouble. The bible and many say that our time on earth is just a test for our afterlife. God is love and we are supposed to be loving and spread love to others. Whenever life stops working for me it's because my MIND IS DISCONNECTED FROM MY SOURCE, MY POWER and my ego is in control. When life is great is when I'm being LOVING to others. It's really amazing, a lot is what the LAW OF ATTRACTION is based on. MIND AND SPIRIT IS EVERYTHING!!!!!

[brainfreeze]

Good stuff Brainfreeze, bless you! I've always said that all of life's answers are in the bible. Parables are very powerful because the mind thinks in pictures and we all can understand a story with meaning and the life lesson behind it.
I acknowledge you for who you are being and trying to help and get others to think and bring them closer to The Lord. I like to keep things simple that GOD IS LOVE and is present in all of us. We have a divine nature that is very powerful and have constant access to this if we stay connected to our source, which is very hard today. GOD is love, peace, joy, and happiness and we collectively connect with other's on this spiritual level. It's not about rules or being good,etc. The church and religion in general has distorted many of these truths that the unbelievers don't understand or get turned off. We all are God's creation and here to spread LOVE. The opposite of love is FEAR, where the devil comes in. The ego is a separation from our source GOD. We all have ego's and think we know better and are in control. The ego, FEAR, is our downfall and gets us into trouble. The bible and many say that our time on earth is just a test for our afterlife. God is love and we are supposed to be loving and spread love to others. Whenever life stops working for me it's because my MIND IS DISCONNECTED FROM MY SOURCE, MY POWER and my ego is in control. When life is great is when I'm being LOVING to others. It's really amazing, a lot is what the LAW OF ATTRACTION is based on. MIND AND SPIRIT IS EVERYTHING!!!!!

Agreed, there are no laws against love... If we're doing that, we're doing everything asked of God. Thank you for the compliment boomer, well appreciated .. God the glory..

[brainfreeze]

“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

[Triple_D_Bet]

Unreal.... In bold

Oops, sorry, missed that link freezer. Video appears to start with a guy who blames what he wants to do on demons, then goes on about how a guy with obvious mental issues starts babbling about souls? The video is full of people some really great assumptions and conspiracy theories, sadly not a shred of anything approaching proof to be found. Being open-minded doesn't mean accepting dumb shit at face value because someone makes a video and sprinkles in biblical quotes, or guys who talk about "dreams" they had interespersed with stuff that happened (which certainly aren't likely to be prophecy, considering everything he talked about was written about decades before in "1984", or numerous other books)

Not sure what Berkley scientists you're referring to? But agreed, if you don't want to change your mind to match reality, further conversation is fruitless. Have to say though, if you're unwilling to change your methodology, I don't imagine it matters what topic we discuss; the same biases are going to lead to similarly erroneous conclusions.

Regarding genetic engineering of foods, we certainly could go back to an all-natural approach. Unfortunately, along with that would come a massive drop in food production and famine. The "au natural", less-efficient method of farming doesn't support the population we have; it probably could if we converted more land to farmland, but prices would scream up, and cost of living would follow, lowering quality of life for vast majority. Natural populations reach equilibrium with their food supply, but our developments have allowed us to keep pushing these limitations back...going backwards will have massive consequences. A lot of effort is being expended to figure out how to keep shifting the limits; like it or not, genetic engineering is by far the most promising means (and something that's been used by humans since our discovery of agriculture; selective breeding is genetic engineering).

Regarding bill gates, I don't know anything about his views on population control, nor do I particularly care about his views. If he thinks populations should be limited, he's entitled to his beliefs until his actions infringe upon others' rights. But he's a billionaire; I seriously doubt having his dad briefly serving as a board member for planned parenthood (one of only several organizations that provides, among other things, abortions) is part of any master plan or of any real consequence.

[Triple_D_Bet]

“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

Or to paraphrase: "I imagined the god i created to be smarter than me; therefore, he must be right; therefore, he must exist."

[brainfreeze]

Or to paraphrase: "I believe in the supernatural, those I present as little proof as anyone else; you should too"

“When you argue against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all: it is like cutting off the branch you are sitting on.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity



Makes him sound like a bit of a dick doesn't it? I wonder if that's the foundation of the time-honored Christian tradition of "we're special because we know the truth"? Human nature, you can get people to believe all sorts of crazy shit if you convince them they're part of an elite group which is superior to others.

I'm a child of God tripper, and I serve humanity, not look down upon it.. I favor humility not pride, and everyone has this choice, it's no secret...

Anyhoo, not sure what your Q&A session is supposed to be saying here....but if we're going to give the answer from our favorite fictional books, I'd prefer to think Jesus picked up the habit of parables from the second wise man during his Buddhist training (according to Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal). Certainly makes more sense, not to mention filling in the decades where the bible kinda forgets about Jesus.

Lol, from a fantasy comic writer... Christopher moore, com'on tripper, do you want to believe God, who never lies, or fantasy... Which is a complete lie...

You can't match fantasy with reality tripper, they do not run together, like ice and fire. lies are lies and truth is truth, and the day those lines becoming distorted on a mass scale, look out for what's next...

[Triple_D_Bet]

You can't match fantasy with reality tripper, they do not run together, like ice and fire. lies are lies and truth is truth, and the day those lines becoming distorted on a mass scale, look out for what's next...

"I imagined a god who created logical proof, therefore I don't need any." - C.S. Lewis (paraphrased)

Shrug, human nature is to define themselves in groups which they see as superior to others. You see yourself as superior to the unsaved, albeit in a fairly unimposing way (the only damage done is to your ability to view the world objectively).

The bible and the book I referenced both have the same amount of proof that their supernatural claims are correct: none. As far as any rational person knows, they're both works of fiction, based on historical events. If I chose to believe one, I'd certainly go with the one that made more sense, and that ain't the bible. FYI, CS Lewis was a fantasy writer...why is his speculation taken more seriously?

Reality is certainly reality; the greatest danger of people distorting it comes from those unwilling to face reality, and 90%+ of the time, it's for religious reasons.

[brainfreeze]

Oops, sorry, missed that link freezer. Video appears to start with a guy who blames what he wants to do on demons, then goes on about how a guy with obvious mental issues starts babbling about souls? The video is full of people some really great assumptions and conspiracy theories, sadly not a shred of anything approaching proof to be found. Being open-minded doesn't mean accepting dumb shit at face value because someone makes a video and sprinkles in biblical quotes, or guys who talk about "dreams" they had interespersed with stuff that happened (which certainly aren't likely to be prophecy, considering everything he talked about was written about decades before in "1984", or numerous other books)

No, he's saying he wanted a career in the industry. A very innocent idea, have fun and make money. He then realized that it's not innocent and there's deeper meaning there. They wanted him to make a conscience choice to serve lucifer, and he will have a good career. He said that he reached that level, and " cross roads " decisions had to be made, he chose God.... Sound familiar ?

Not sure what Berkley scientists you're referring to? But agreed, if you don't want to change your mind to match reality, further conversation is fruitless. Have to say though, if you're unwilling to change your methodology, I don't imagine it matters what topic we discuss; the same biases are going to lead to similarly erroneous conclusions.
Well let's not finger anybody personally because then we know what comes next, I did mention a few a few post ago, and there's plenty more but here's someone prominent in science, who doesn't agree with macro evolution..

Evolutionists, of course, will argue that these great scientists lived before Darwin, and weren’t acquainted with the theory of evolution or modern scientific discoveries. While that may be true of some, it certainly isn’t true of Werner von Braun (1912 - 1977). Furthermore, their argument is based on the false premise that the evidence for the theory of evolution is stronger today than it was in the sixteenth through twentieth centuries. In reality, it was easier to believe in the theory of evolution when the fossil record was much less complete, before spontaneous generation of life was disproved, before genetics and molecular biology were understood as well as they are today.




Regarding genetic engineering of foods, we certainly could go back to an all-natural approach. Unfortunately, along with that would come a massive drop in food production and famine. The "au natural", less-efficient method of farming doesn't support the population we have; it probably could if we converted more land to farmland, but prices would scream up, and cost of living would follow, lowering quality of life for vast majority. Natural populations reach equilibrium with their food supply, but our developments have allowed us to keep pushing these limitations back...going backwards will have massive consequences. A lot of effort is being expended to figure out how to keep shifting the limits; like it or not, genetic engineering is by far the most promising means (and something that's been used by humans since our discovery of agriculture; selective breeding is genetic engineering).

Well maybe people need to go back to doing their own farming... I'm for that, a few days of farming doesn't hurt anyone, instead of buying crap all day, how's that idea ? I can appreciate this well thought out response though trip...but modifying seeds with crap chemicals that we have to eat is not the answer...

Regarding bill gates, I don't know anything about his views on population control, nor do I particularly care about his views. If he thinks populations should be limited, he's entitled to his beliefs until his actions infringe upon others' rights. But he's a billionaire; I seriously doubt having his dad briefly serving as a board member for planned parenthood (one of only several organizations that provides, among other things, abortions) is part of any master plan or of any real consequence

You should care, he's got big money bud, and big money brings changes, and he is for infringing on others rights " death boards ". Watch the money tripper, watch the money... Funny how a guy can go from talking about computer software to humanity over a very short period of time. The not so funny part, people listen to these views...

.

Something how you seem to have a good head on your shoulders trip, and you take all what's told to you at face value and question nothing... Jesus could come back and you'd be looking for some explanation in a science book. You should search your heart bud, and let Jesus come in..

[brainfreeze]

"I imagined a god who created logical proof, therefore I don't need any." - C.S. Lewis (paraphrased)

He did, a proof you reject as evolution... YOU

Shrug, human nature is to define themselves in groups which they see as superior to others. You see yourself as superior to the unsaved, albeit in a fairly unimposing way (the only damage done is to your ability to view the world objectively).

I don't see myself superior to anyone, I respect everyone as humans, I'm a servant as well, as I posted earlier, Jesus sat with sinners, He died for the unsaved... So what are you getting at because it's the exact opposite of what I believe...

The bible and the book I referenced both have the same amount of proof that their supernatural claims are correct: none. As far as any rational person knows, they're both works of fiction, based on historical events. If I chose to believe one, I'd certainly go with the one that made more sense, and that ain't the bible. FYI, CS Lewis was a fantasy writer...why is his speculation taken more seriously?

He wasn't JUST a fiction writer, he wrote nonfiction as well, and labeled it as such.. He was a host of other things as well..

.Clive Staples Lewis, commonly known as C. S. Lewis (29 November 1898 – 22 November 1963), was a novelist, poet, academic, medievalist, literary critic, essayist, lay theologian, broadcaster, lecturer, and Christian apologist. Born in Belfast, Ireland, he held academic positions at both Oxford University (Magdalen College), 1925–54, and Cambridge University (Magdalene College), 1954–63. He is best known for his fictional work, especially The Screwtape Letters, The Chronicles of Narnia, and The Space Trilogy, and for his non-fiction Christian apologetics, such as Mere Christianity, Miracles, and The Problem of Pain.


Reality is certainly reality; the greatest danger of people distorting it comes from those unwilling to face reality, and 90%+ of the time, it's for religious reasons

Not from the people programming us with crap entertainment with movies, music, and hollywood ? Not from the crap philosophies the elite want to run our lives with, ? Sex, drugs, rock&roll, and death ? No, no, it comes from people telling you to love God and love one another...(sarcasm) bud..
.

In bold..

[GUMMO77]

...but if we're going to give the answer from our favorite fictional books, I'd prefer to think Jesus picked up the habit of parables from the second wise man during his Buddhist training (according to Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal). Certainly makes more sense, not to mention filling in the decades where the bible kinda forgets about Jesus.

Great book you sick fuk

[Triple_D_Bet]

Something how you seem to have a good head on your shoulders trip, and you take all what's told to you at face value and question nothing... Jesus could come back and you'd be looking for some explanation in a science book. You should search your heart bud, and let Jesus come in..

So we are talking about the Chappelle video? Well, I guess that's your interpretation of it, possibly his too...but while that might be a wise decision to avoid compromising his artistic principles, it's hardly proof for anything you'd claim.

von Braun was very good at making rockets, but apparently one of those (thankfully rare) individuals who embraced the scientific method in most areas, but made exceptions for his favorite fairy tales. It doesn't matter if an otherwise intelligent person believes this stuff; as I mentioned, all people are subject to the same cognitive mishaps. The point is that a person's belief isn't proof. The case for evolution only grows stronger as technology advances, but we've acknowledged that you don't want to look at any of it; how can you possibly argue it's false when you don't know what it is?

People can't go back to doing their own farming, at least not without a massive hit to lifestyles. There's a reason our standards of living have risen so much in the industrial age, and more efficient food production is a big one....you're not going to get many to go backwards on that one.

Big money is all well and good, and I'll continue to oppose violations of rights regardless of the agenda. Not sure what you mean by death boards.

I'm not sure how I've given you the impression I take much of anything at face value; indeed, I back up my assertions with plenty of proof...you not wanting to read it doesn't negate it, or make me any less rational. If Jesus came back and proved he was the biblical Jesus you believe in, I'm sure my beliefs would change along with everyone else's in this thread...why wouldn't they?

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

Redacted

[Triple_D_Bet]

In bold..

So claims C.S. Lewis, you, and others...but the moral of the story? Claiming something to be true doesn't automatically make it true, even if you imagine it to be so.

Good for you if you respect everyone freezer...I'm simply explaining human nature, which is to gravitate towards groups and mindsets that reinforce a person believing they're a "winner" in life in some way, having an edge over many others. This can be the person thinking they have their priorities better than most others, they're going to heaven and others aren't, they're getting laid all the time and others aren't, etc. Pretty basic recurring theme in cultures and subgroups.

Correct, C.S. Lewis had other hobbies, despite paying his bills by writing fiction. Doesn't make his unproven assertions any more accurate than the ravings of any other apologetic.

It's convenient to believe that the "elites" want to ruin our lives (a misfiring of that "us vs them" dichotomy that gives people imagined purpose), but the truth is a bit more logical: they simply want to make more money and do stuff with it. Movies, music, drugs...these things are offered because there is a demand for them and the effects they create. No group of elites is manipulating people into wanting to have sex, or wanting to use their imaginations, or wanting to experience altered states of consciousness...they don't need to, people recognize the value and are willing to do it. Smart people in a market discover what is wanted and provide it while obtaining what they want, providing value to all.

Don't like what they're selling? Don't buy it, and pretty soon they won't be selling it. If you don't like being programmed, try thinking rationally, and you'll soon find that you're not easily programmable. You could easily make the argument that those who believe in the supernatural based solely on unverified literature that coincides with small portions of history and exploits well-understood human cognitive misfires are far more susceptible to being reprogrammed, as they already were once.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Great book you sick fuk

It really is...explains stuff in a much better way than the bible, gets the same message across but without all the arbitrary restrictions, or need for mental gymnastics to rationalize away certain parts of the book

No one wins these arguments.

I always figure, the more god fearing folk, the less real competition I have in life.

Im all for anything that benefits me.

Everyone wins these arguments, that's why they continue to happen. Nobody changes their mind, but everyone is convinced they're right...anti-religious folks because the proof and facts remain the same, religious types because they've been trained that repeating their beliefs in the face of opposition makes them martyrs and better embodiments of the faith. They're not wrong, it's just that the concepts they're examples of aren't quite what they'd prefer

[brainfreeze]

So we are talking about the Chappelle video? Well, I guess that's your interpretation of it, possibly his too...but while that might be a wise decision to avoid compromising his artistic principles, it's hardly proof for anything you'd claim.

no, I'm speaking of the young man in video 2 there, he wanted a career in the industry as well. Only difference between the two, is the young man understands what's happening, Dave doesn't yet, though Dave is very smart, this spiritual side of things has passed him by, though he is questioning... Always hope.

von Braun was very good at making rockets, but apparently one of those (thankfully rare) individuals who embraced the scientific method in most areas, but made exceptions for his favorite fairy tales. It doesn't matter if an otherwise intelligent person believes this stuff; as I mentioned, all people are subject to the same cognitive mishaps. The point is that a person's belief isn't proof. The case for evolution only grows stronger as technology advances, but we've acknowledged that you don't want to look at any of it; how can you possibly argue it's false when you don't know what it is?

I've stated it like ten times now trip, the basic is that we have the same ancestors as apes, I don't believe that, and neither did Von Braun..

People can't go back to doing their own farming, at least not without a massive hit to lifestyles. There's a reason our standards of living have risen so much in the industrial age, and more efficient food production is a big one....you're not going to get many to go backwards on that one.

Don't think this makes much sense, seems to try to be a big help in sending food to the masses but at same time killing them softly in alarming rates. Zero help in actual nutrients, like eating a real apple vs a monsantos apple, they look the same but far from it, but people think it's beneficial in some areas like a " seedless watermelon "... So to say it's progressive to humans, it's actually digressive in more ways then one. I don't mind a lifestyle change, families together, doing something positive and constructive to their health, seems double healthy, so to say we can't do it isn't true, might not be welcomed, but if people are tired of the repercussions, high cancer rates and so fourth we sure would think about it. Have you seen the test they ran on the rats full of Monsanto foods ? I would choose farm any day.. Thank God I fish a lot, like bread and know where an organic food mart is.

Big money is all well and good, and I'll continue to oppose violations of rights regardless of the agenda. Not sure what you mean by death boards.

Its in obamacare, death panels/death boards ... Whatever you want to call it..

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/06/20/obamacares-death-panels-will-be-implemented-in-two-years-unless-we-act-now/

I'm not sure how I've given you the impression I take much of anything at face value; indeed, I back up my assertions with plenty of proof...you not wanting to read it doesn't negate it, or make me any less rational. If Jesus came back and proved he was the biblical Jesus you believe in, I'm sure my beliefs would change along with everyone else's in this thread...why wouldn't they?
No one knows the day or the hour, and I wouldn't wait until the last moment to understand you've made a vital mistake,no ones promised tomorrow on earth. we're talking eternity here tripper.. When the Jews understand the mistake they've made, I'm sure it will be the same. A mind boggling moment, for His chosen people who have rejected truth...

In bold...

[brainfreeze]

It really is...explains stuff in a much better way than the bible, gets the same message across but without all the arbitrary restrictions, or need for mental gymnastics to rationalize away certain parts of the book

It's fantasy land...

Everyone wins these arguments, that's why they continue to happen. Nobody changes their mind, but everyone is convinced they're right...anti-religious folks because the proof and facts remain the same, religious types because they've been trained that repeating their beliefs in the face of opposition makes them martyrs and better embodiments of the faith. They're not wrong, it's just that the concepts they're examples of aren't quite what they'd prefer

Not everyones mind will, and heart is made of stone. I would certainly imagine this thread has a few thinking and that's worth it all. Opposition or none changes nothing, and that's not proof in itself. These are your assertions, I've explained miracles and the love I show here daily is proof, let's just say you wouldn't have wanted to converse with the dead me, I had nothing good to say at all... I lived off pain, and power that was my energy, though I did love that's not what was winning over in my life, now God reigns, God the glory.

Your a smart guy tripper, have you ever heard of thematics ? I'd like your thoughts if you don't mind..

http://www.theomatics.com

[Triple_D_Bet]

In bold...

Can you gimme that link again? Don't think I'm looking at the one you're talking about.

Yes, you and von Braun don't believe...but your disbelief doesn't alter the proof. von Braun at least had no access to the excessive proofs we have today; you have access, but no desire to view things that might change your mind

The "zero nutrients" thing is pretty much false to my knowledge, and it doesn't seem likely that eating "real" food is appreciably different than "monsato" food. I'm sure you and others don't mind a lifestyle change, and you're free to make one...not feasible for 7 billion+ people though. Attributing cancer to genetically modified foods is ignoring the far bigger effect: that we eat too much food, which has actually been strongly implicated in increased rates of cancer. If people want to reduce cancer rates, they'd be far better served by eating Monsato salads instead of organic steaks. I'm not sure what specific rat test you're referring to, but the only studies I've seen have been retracted for errors.

Obamacare is a whole different story...and while death panels are perhaps dramatically named, any collective care agreement needs to have methods to keep it from hemorrhaging money, and that by necessity has to lead to not everyone getting every possible treatment. If you have to save costs, it's no doubt in the best common interest to eliminate the low-success, high-cost procedures for the severely ill...so the concept of death panels isn't completely unreasonable, as any group which can deny care is essentially a death panel. I think Obamacare is a terrible idea, but if supporters want to ram it down our throat, they're going to have to accept the economic reality that making healthcare more expensive means lower quality access and fewer services. The simple solution isn't appealing and isn't likely to make traction, but we need to understand that universal healthcare isn't a right to be funded by resources (tax money or time) forcibly taken from others. Bill Gates has a lot of money, but the harm he can do with it is dwarfed by the harm done by the much poorer but ignorant/irrational Americans who supported this fantasy in the first place.

If Jesus comes down and proves himself, I'm sure most will be open-minded enough to accept him and cash in that ticket to heaven. "Waiting until the last minute" is preferred, as I don't need to waste my life living with irrational beliefs in the highly likely event that the 0 proof of god means there isn't one.

[brainfreeze]

Pardon me it's called theo " which means God in Greek " and matics for " mathematics...

I personally don't get into it, because I don't relate God with numbers, and number can be misleading if you ask me, but your a science and math guy, so please be my guest and disprove...this technique has brought professors of science to God. In this case whatever works /shrugs/ ...

This site will scientifically prove that God wrote the Bible. Yes, Christianity is the one and only true religious framework. But much of what Christians believe is full of mistakes, false conclusions, and worse. No theologian or Bible scholar has the complete picture by any means. Nobody has ever seen or understood the master plan of the universe. Yet what is contained on this website will quite literally open the “window of heaven” and give you a major part of the BIG picture—why this world exists and why you were born. The answer will astound you.


Here's another one of their sites, it looks like...

http://www.angels.org

[Triple_D_Bet]

Your a smart guy tripper, have you ever heard of thematics ? I'd like your thoughts if you don't mind..
http://www.theomatics.com

Not sure if you're talking about the bible or the book I quoted, but either way, you're correct.

Not too likely this thread has changed anyone's mind....those who were prone to thought were already on the thinking side. Unfortunately, people seem to need to fall out of their faith the hard way most times.

Hadn't heard of theomatics, but a quick goggling seems to have indicate it's been pretty easily debunked. A quick reading of the "scientific proof" section seems to indicate that the author has determined that because it would be very unlikely for the specific words of the bible to be randomly formed, that it must be divinely inspired...which seems to be misunderstanding an impressive number of simple concepts at once. To top it off, the exact methods they describe yield similar results when applied to secular books, contrary to his claims of it only working on the bible.

Flailing around for proof of what you believe, instead of simply reading the proof to the contrary, is a pretty strong case of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias If you read nothing else, reading and understanding that page would do you some good...

[brainfreeze]

Can you gimme that link again? Don't think I'm looking at the one you're talking about.
The one with young man

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dl3SAiXUQpw

Here's the full interview, you just seen a clip..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aM1CkXxwf0Y

Heres one of Bob Dylan stating the same thing....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IqvvOD4bdRs

These are just a few, there's plenty... Myself included..

Yes, you and von Braun don't believe...but your disbelief doesn't alter the proof. von Braun at least had no access to the excessive proofs we have today; you have access, but no desire to view things that might change your mind

What do you mean, he was around with the guy who created the whole dang thing.

The "zero nutrients" thing is pretty much false to my knowledge, and it doesn't seem likely that eating "real" food is appreciably different than "monsato" food. I'm sure you and others don't mind a lifestyle change, and you're free to make one...not feasible for 7 billion+ people though. Attributing cancer to genetically modified foods is ignoring the far bigger effect: that we eat too much food, which has actually been strongly implicated in increased rates of cancer. If people want to reduce cancer rates, they'd be far better served by eating Monsato salads instead of organic steaks. I'm not sure what specific rat test you're referring to, but the only studies I've seen have been retracted for errors.

Ok, I didn't exactly mean zero, over estimated a bit, but it mine as well be compared to organic food, and if you don't know what monsantos foods do to the body, I would encourage you to do some research there..

Obamacare is a whole different story...and while death panels are perhaps dramatically named, any collective care agreement needs to have methods to keep it from hemorrhaging money, and that by necessity has to lead to not everyone getting every possible treatment. If you have to save costs, it's no doubt in the best common interest to eliminate the low-success, high-cost procedures for the severely ill...so the concept of death panels isn't completely unreasonable, as any group which can deny care is essentially a death panel. I think Obamacare is a terrible idea, but if supporters want to ram it down our throat, they're going to have to accept the economic reality that making healthcare more expensive means lower quality access and fewer services. The simple solution isn't appealing and isn't likely to make traction, but we need to understand that universal healthcare isn't a right to be funded by resources (tax money or time) forcibly taken from others. Bill Gates has a lot of money, but the harm he can do with it is dwarfed by the harm done by the much poorer but ignorant/irrational Americans who supported this fantasy in the first place.

We can for sure agree here to a degree..
If Jesus comes down and proves himself, I'm sure most will be open-minded enough to accept him and cash in that ticket to heaven. "Waiting until the last minute" is preferred, as I don't need to waste my life living with irrational beliefs in the highly likely event that the 0 proof of god means there isn't one.

I understand you would prefer that tripper, because the flesh wants the world, the spirit wants nothing to do with it other then to save people from themselves.. You can look at the tragic wreck that has become are everyday... This is what happens when we replace God with something else..

In bold..

[brainfreeze]

Not sure if you're talking about the bible or the book I quoted, but either way, you're correct.

Not too likely this thread has changed anyone's mind....those who were prone to thought were already on the thinking side. Unfortunately, people seem to need to fall out of their faith the hard way most times.

Hadn't heard of theomatics, but a quick goggling seems to have indicate it's been pretty easily debunked. A quick reading of the "scientific proof" section seems to indicate that the author has determined that because it would be very unlikely for the specific words of the bible to be randomly formed, that it must be divinely inspired...which seems to be misunderstanding an impressive number of simple concepts at once. To top it off, the exact methods they describe yield similar results when applied to secular books, contrary to his claims of it only working on the bible.

Flailing around for proof of what you believe, instead of simply reading the proof to the contrary, is a pretty strong case of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias If you read nothing else, reading and understanding that page would do you some good...

I'm not " flailing " around..., I don't study it or need it... and it hasn't been debunked, there has been thousands of hours of work invested in that.. It's a scientific theory as your evolution is. I personally stay away from it, because gematria associates with Kabbalah which I'm totally against.. But if you could see these things exist, it would make it that much more easier, for you to make a conscience choice... but for now I guess ignorance will be bliss...

[Triple_D_Bet]

In bold..

Again, people believing something doesn't make it true.

There is more and more obvious proof in favor of evolution all the time, which is why it's so widely believed... Even von Braun might find it hard to explain away the proof we have now.

[Triple_D_Bet]

I'm not " flailing " around..., I don't study it or need it... and it hasn't been debunked, there has been thousands of hours of work invested in that.. It's a scientific theory as your evolution is. I personally stay away from it, because gematria associates with Kabbalah which I'm totally against.. But if you could see these things exist, it would make it that much more easier, for you to make a conscience choice... but for now I guess ignorance will be bliss...

Sorry freezer, but when you leap about grasping at debunked theory after debunked theory, it comes off as desperate to justify your position.

It has been debunked; takes less than a minute to find a quick explanation of the proof on Google, and only a few more to read through it. It's not proven science, nor as the explanation notes, could it possibly be science. Starting with a premise that is impossible to falsify means it's not a scientific idea, basic scientific method concept that also applies to bible.

[brainfreeze]

Sorry freezer, but when you leap about grasping at debunked theory after debunked theory, it comes off as desperate to justify your position.

It has been debunked; takes less than a minute to find a quick explanation of the proof on Google, and only a few more to read through it. It's not proven science, nor as the explanation notes, could it possibly be science. Starting with a premise that is impossible to falsify means it's not a scientific idea, basic scientific method concept that also applies to bible.

Anyone can make a web page and say they debunked anything they want... Until you understand it, what's going on it's just a waste of time... No one has proved random chance, with the Greek and Hebrew, here's a skeptic that tried..http://theomatics.net

what do you think about God talking about time, space, and matter in the very first verse ? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4

you have nothing on the young mans interview or bob Dylan I assume ?

I'm just showing you proofs, if you don't want to believe any of it, I can't help that, I tried, I went the extra mile, to show you different things, if you feel everything is on the up and up, so be it bud, God loves you, peace be with you.

[BeerDog99]

With irony well intended....

My lord Triple, you must have the patience of Job to continue this back and forth.

[bobbywaves]

With irony well intended....

My lord Triple, you must have the patience of Job to continue this back and forth.

In fairness, Tripe previously demonstrated his patience. By losing a year long, 29k poker challenge to me.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Anyone can make a web page and say they debunked anything they want... Until you understand it, what's going on it's just a waste of time... No one has proved random chance, with the Greek and Hebrew, here's a skeptic that tried..http://theomatics.net

what do you think about God talking about time, space, and matter in the very first verse ? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4

you have nothing on the young mans interview or bob Dylan I assume ?

I'm just showing you proofs, if you don't want to believe any of it, I can't help that, I tried, I went the extra mile, to show you different things, if you feel everything is on the up and up, so be it bud, God loves you, peace be with you.

Anyone can make a webpage, but in this case, someone did and populated it with relatively simple explanation of why it's not true. A brief tutorial that might be helpful in discovering a theory's debunked before believing in it:

-google theomatics; third result (and first objective result) is wikipedia page. Click through.

-on wikipedia page, read. Under the "controversy" section, read how an analysis was done which disproves several of theomatics' claims.

-Should you refuse to take wikipedia's word for it, click through to the handily-provided reference link immediately following the sentence: http://www.apollowebworks.com/atheism/theomatics.html

-read that, and understand how theomatics' claims were disproven using theomatics' own methodology, how choosing arbitrary number associations is simply identifying coincidences, how the lack of predictive powers would render it useless even if true, and how it's un falsifiable, which basically means it ain't science.

Hope that blueprint helps you separate the wheat from the tares, so to speak

Lol @ the first video; goes to show that if you're willing to bend your interpretations of the bible enough, you'll find any confirmation you want in it.

For the second one, I watched it; the "prophecies" the preacher speaks of in his dream are simply less-imaginative versions of well-established literary tropes. I think "1984" might have contained everything he "dreamed"...not exactly much of a prophet is he?

For the 3rd, that's nice that Bob Dylan thought stuff...doesn't make it true

You're showing me what you believe to be proofs without a doubt, but by being unable to back them up with any facts, no rational person can take them seriously as anything but wishful thinking and the results of cognitive misfires that they are.

[Triple_D_Bet]

With irony well intended....

My lord Triple, you must have the patience of Job to continue this back and forth.

Hah...what kind of sick, supposedly-benevolent deity allows someone who believes in him to be tortured and his family killed, all so the deity can win a wager with his nemesis? Not the kind of deity I'm interested in spending eternity with

In fairness, Tripe previously demonstrated his patience. By losing a year long, 29k poker challenge to me.

If we feel the need to add more irrational, irrelevant material to this thread, you'll be the first one we call...until then, back to your corner

[brainfreeze]

Anyone can make a webpage, but in this case, someone did and populated it with relatively simple explanation of why it's not true. A brief tutorial that might be helpful in discovering a theory's debunked before believing in it:

-google theomatics; third result (and first objective result) is wikipedia page. Click through.

-on wikipedia page, read. Under the "controversy" section, read how an analysis was done which disproves several of theomatics' claims.

-Should you refuse to take wikipedia's word for it, click through to the handily-provided reference link immediately following the sentence: http://www.apollowebworks.com/atheism/theomatics.html

-read that, and understand how theomatics' claims were disproven using theomatics' own methodology, how choosing arbitrary number associations is simply identifying coincidences, how the lack of predictive powers would render it useless even if true, and how it's un falsifiable, which basically means it ain't science.

Hope that blueprint helps you separate the wheat from the tares, so to speak

yea, I really can't answer this, if you and the folks at " atheist " .com think it's a farce, idk... As I said I personally don't base my faith on it... My faith stands on the Bible, so when you can debunk Gods word, then you'll have my attention..

Lol @ the first video; goes to show that if you're willing to bend your interpretations of the bible enough, you'll find any confirmation you want in it.

Are you speaking of the interview with the young man ? He's not bending interpretation, he's telling you his real life story..,

For the second one, I watched it; the "prophecies" the preacher speaks of in his dream are simply less-imaginative versions of well-established literary tropes. I think "1984" might have contained everything he "dreamed"...not exactly much of a prophet is he?

Talking about 1984, what do you think about that book ?
For the 3rd, that's nice that Bob Dylan thought stuff...doesn't make it true

Guy has no reason to lie, I also heard jimmy Hendrix used to channel demons, Carlos Santana says the same thing, he says when he watches video of him on stage, he doesn't even recognize his own actions, " something else takes over ". These people aren't dumb tripper, and they aren't crazy, maybe dysfunctional and making terrible choices, but I would take heed to what's said, and maybe do your own research.

You're showing me what you believe to be proofs without a doubt, but by being unable to back them up with any facts, no rational person can take them seriously as anything but wishful thinking and the results of cognitive misfires that they are

I live in the spiritual bud, how can I prove something that goes beyond the eye, this is why faith is involved, and God will build on said faith, but you can't explain prophecies, visions, dreams, miracles that happen, there's no evidence to explain these things...
.

In bold..

[brainfreeze]

Hah...what kind of sick, supposedly-benevolent deity allows someone who believes in him to be tortured and his family killed, all so the deity can win a wager with his nemesis? Not the kind of deity I'm interested in spending eternity with

Jobs faith was tested... Everyone is tried by fire, some more then others...