Malaysia Airlines flight with 295 people on board shot down in Ukraine

[muldoon]

I know the U.S. isn't perfect by a large margin, but at least they are not shooting down commercial airliners

Iran Air Flight 655

Just sayin

[Kermit]

Iran Air Flight 655

Just sayin

I remember that from the late 80's. There was some discrepancies with the communications with that plane's identity before it was brought down. Technology today almost 30 years later should prevent this.

[Russian Rocket]

C'mon man, there is already enough of the blame game going on right now between the Ukraine and Russia. I know the U.S. isn't perfect by a large margin, but at least they are not shooting down commercial airliners(Flight 93 may possibly be an exception) and the U.S. was actually attacked by them. Our Government isn't creating most of the problems that we always get blamed for. If we minded our own business and quit worrying about the rest of the world, people would be bitching that we didn't care.

Lose-Lose situation for the United States.

Dude, your government financed the coup...plain and simple. And they are out there right now training Ukrainian forces.
You worry about this plane with 300 passengers that was shot down in a war zone? How about hundreds if not thousands of Ukrainian people who were killed and tortured by this new junta government? Who's going to take a responsibility for murdering them?

[Kermit]

Dude, your government financed the coup...plain and simple. And they are out there right now training Ukrainian forces.
You worry about this plane with 300 passengers that was shot down in a war zone? How about hundreds if not thousands of Ukrainian people who were killed and tortured by this new junta government? Who's going to take a responsibility for murdering them?

My issue is that with the technology that we have today(or supposed to have) mistakes like this shouldn't happen. And if it does, whomever did it should be held accountable for.

[Kermit]

And the United States is training forces in many European Countries, not just the Ukraine.

[Russian Rocket]

My issue is that with the technology that we have today(or supposed to have) mistakes like this shouldn't happen. And if it does, whomever did it should be held accountable for.

They still don't know who's BUK system (Ukrainian or Rebels) fired this rocket. Both parties have the exact same weapon.

Here is an article about a Russian Defence Minister addressing this issue today:

Russia has so far been the only nation to release evidence related to the MH17 crash, the Defense Ministry said, urging other countries to follow suit. Though there have been a lot of claims of Russia’s involvement, none have been backed by proof.

The US claims its intelligence data and satellite imagery confirm that the missile which downed MH17 was fired from rebel-controlled territory. So far it’s only a claim that has to be supplemented by proof, Russia’s Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov said in an emotional address released on Thursday.

“Where is this data? Why hasn’t it been made public? Is it because it is still being cooked, if I may say so?” Antonov asked in the statement. “By the way, one of the four US experts reportedly said that Russia may have been involved in creating conditions for the launch of this missile. It was nice, of course, of the other three that they did not say anything, but what about the fourth? Does he have any grounds to make such accusations? Or is it something predetermined?”


Antonov wondered how the bulk of accusations that Russia has been facing could possibly be based on unverified material taken from social media.

“US intelligence officials refer to some photos posted on social networks which allegedly show a missile launcher crossing the border between Russia and Ukraine. What exactly are they talking about? Are they talking about a picture of a Ukrainian Buk being transported somewhere by Ukrainians on a prime mover with a white cab, made in the town of Krasnoarmeysk, which has long been controlled by the Ukrainian military? Or maybe they are talking about a photograph of Buk No. 312? If so, there is another picture of the same launcher rolling as part of a Ukrainian armor column. Gentlemen, are you implying that this is the launcher that fired the missile? If so, demand an explanation from Kiev.”

Antonov reminded that following the plane crash, the Russian Defense Ministry released monitoring data related to the accident. Based on this information, the ministry developed a number of questions for Ukraine and other countries which are blaming Russia for the tragedy. The questions have remained unanswered.
The Russian Defense Ministry would like to know, for example, why the US rules out the possibility that the plane was shot down by the Ukrainian military.
“This begs the question: are US experts ready to assume responsibility for their claims? Do they know where all the SAM launchers are deployed in Ukraine? What do they have to say about the monitoring data presented by Russia? Do they ignore it simply because there is nothing for them to say?”
Speaking about accusations of Russian military build-up on the border with Ukraine, Antonov recalled “nine instances of Russian territory coming under fire in the course of June and July” from Ukraine. One of those instances turned fatal for a Russian citizen, Andrei Shulyatyev.
“What if US territory was shelled from a neighboring country and, God forbid, a US citizen was killed?” Antonov asked.
“What would the United States do? I think the answer is obvious. Yet Russia is behaving in a reserved and responsible manner. It is therefore self-evident who is trying to provoke whom at the border. Why don’t you take note of the constant rocket shelling of Donetsk and Lugansk instead, which claims civilian lives?”

[Fidel_CashFlow]

....

[rkelly110]

Nice spin job Rocket. Did you conveniently forget Russian rebels shot down a few Ukrainian military aircraft
before the airliner? Continue to shoot down aircraft after? Or are you saying this is a red flag operation?
Ukrainians shooting down their own aircraft and blaming Russians?

What's the end game? If Russian separatists don't like it in Ukraine, GTFO. What does Putin want in Ukraine?

[Optional]

Just normal Russian spin.

Russians in general have no respect for the victims in this. They have seen their govt kill innocents too often before to really care.

Putin just reflects the arrogance and ignorance of his people. They actually take pride in a 'tough' leader who will just lie to the world in the face of indisputable evidence.

The one and only good thing that might come from this is the sudden and strong marginalization of Russia by the many countries who have so far just stood by and watched.

The more Putin talks his rubbish the more surly that happens and the swifter his regime will fall.

[Russian Rocket]

Nice spin job Rocket. Did you conveniently forget Russian rebels shot down a few Ukrainian military aircraft
before the airliner? Continue to shoot down aircraft after? Or are you saying this is a red flag operation?
Ukrainians shooting down their own aircraft and blaming Russians?

What's the end game? If Russian separatists don't like it in Ukraine, GTFO. What does Putin want in Ukraine?

Hey, I'm not forgetting anything here, buddy. I'm talking about a specific plane crash.
I'll be the first person to tell you, after the crash, then more than likely rebels are responsible for that accident. However, as of right now, you have no proof of that.
....and who told you, that pro-Russian (Not Russian) separatists, as you call them, don't like it in Ukraine? Are you really that fukking clueless? People who fight in Ukraine are as Ukrainian as they get - on both sides of the barricades. Yeah some of them have Russian commanders...some of them have former American intelligence officers as commanders....But at the end of the day 99.9% of them are Ukrainians and they do fight for their own land on their own land.

[Russian Rocket]

Russians in general have no respect for the victims in this. T

Who told you this? Is it this something that you saw in your dreams tonight and just woke this morning and decided to share with us?

Unreal

[bruins35]

why should the public believe what the us government says about the plane crash? probally the most corrupt scummy government in the world caught in more lies then anyone . I would trust putins word over the gay black guy in charge of usa

[Optional]

Who told you this? Is it this something that you saw in your dreams tonight and just woke this morning and decided to share with us?

Unreal

Well, do they give a stuff?

Or would they prefer to eat up the disrespectful rubbish every Russian person I have seen mention this seems to parrot?

A real man stands up and takes ownership of his mistakes, especially such a terrible one of this.

He made a mistake. Apologize. Don't taunt the victims. But that just isn't the 'tough' Russian way is it? Putin is not tough, he has proved himself to be an ignoble coward with his lies this time.

Right now, when I read stories like this, I have trouble not feeling the same way about the entire nation personally. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ordinar...gedy-1.2716002


I just hope this is the beginning of the end of the current era of Russian political history.

[rkelly110]

Hey, I'm not forgetting anything here, buddy. I'm talking about a specific plane crash.
I'll be the first person to tell you, after the crash, then more than likely rebels are responsible for that accident. However, as of right now, you have no proof of that.
....and who told you, that pro-Russian (Not Russian) separatists, as you call them, don't like it in Ukraine? Are you really that fukking clueless? People who fight in Ukraine are as Ukrainian as they get - on both sides of the barricades. Yeah some of them have Russian commanders...some of them have former American intelligence officers as commanders....But at the end of the day 99.9% of them are Ukrainians and they do fight for their own land on their own land.

I figured maybe you wrote that instead of copy and pasted it because of no source.

Sure, Ukraine's economy isn't that good and the Russian loyalists want a better life where they live, so what's the
end game? Do they want Russia's better economy? Why was Russia at their borders covered up like terroists?
What is Russia's end game? Take back their territories? Make Russia like it was? IDK. Just asking.

[Russian Rocket]

I figured maybe you wrote that instead of copy and pasted it because of no source.

Sure, Ukraine's economy isn't that good and the Russian loyalists want a better life where they live, so what's the
end game? Do they want Russia's better economy? Why was Russia at their borders covered up like terroists?
What is Russia's end game? Take back their territories? Make Russia like it was? IDK. Just asking.

I have no idea what the end game might be with the way things are unfolding right now.

Crimea's people didn't want to be part of the Ukraine's junta regime, so Russia took back that region. The decision was fairly simple, not just because Russia was protecting Russian speaking population, but also because Russia didn't want NATO to have a sea access on their door steps.

Now, the folks, who you refer to as separatists, are fighting for the own little bits of land near Crimea region. The agenda is exactly the same - they don't want to be part of this new Ukrainian regime. The vast majority of them are Russian speaking folks and are hated by this new government.
These junta radicals are closing Russian schools, they're forbiding people from speaking Russian and that's in the cities where you have up to 70-80% of Russian population. And I'm not even talking about mass killings that they do. Like the one that they had in Odessa where they burned people alive in the building and folks who were trying to jump out of the window to escape were shot at. Don't believe me? Look it up online...there are plenty of vids on youtube about it.

Ask yourself what would you do if something like this happened on your land, city...country where you live?

What kind of fukking separatists are we talking about it here? The people who chose to protect their freedom or the actual terrorists who came to power, with the help of US, in March of this year?

I wish Russia didn't waste the time and rolled through Kiev with tanks back in January/February when it all just started. We wouldn't have this conversation right now about this plane and 300 folks who died for nothing.

[Russian Rocket]

Well, do they give a stuff?

Or would they prefer to eat up the disrespectful rubbish every Russian person I have seen mention this seems to parrot?

A real man stands up and takes ownership of his mistakes, especially such a terrible one of this.

He made a mistake. Apologize. Don't taunt the victims. But that just isn't the 'tough' Russian way is it? Putin is not tough, he has proved himself to be an ignoble coward with his lies this time.

Right now, when I read stories like this, I have trouble not feeling the same way about the entire nation personally. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ordinar...gedy-1.2716002


I just hope this is the beginning of the end of the current era of Russian political history.

show me one proof of Putin's or Russia's involvement in this

wake me up, when you're ready

[Optional]

show me one proof of Putin's or Russia's involvement in this

wake me up, when you're ready

No doubt you and Putin would still blame others even if TMZ was there filming the whole thing.

The Russian operative commander who had control of the region and control of the type of weapon tweeted taking responsibility for shooting it down almost as it happened. No proof of that to show as it was deleted. Account must have been hacked by the Yanks I guess.

Local people in the days and hours prior reporting movement of the BUK system through towns and near the location it was used from.

No reports of any Ukraine units in the area. Have not even heard Putin try to claim that.

A video of the plane as it crashed apparently from the shooters. I guess Merika used some new stealth technology to drop an operative and a BUK unit into a foreign warzone, and get it out again un detected.

I dunno... probably another 50 pieces of circumstantial evidence that anyone with the slightest respect for the victims would not be flat out denying with the very lame line... Yeah. well show the evidence.

[Russian Rocket]

No doubt you and Putin would still blame others even if TMZ was there filming the whole thing.

The Russian operative commander who had control of the region and control of the type of weapon tweeted taking responsibility for shooting it down almost as it happened. No proof of that to show as it was deleted. Account must have been hacked by the Yanks I guess.

Local people in the days and hours prior reporting movement of the BUK system through towns and near the location it was used from.

No reports of any Ukraine units in the area. Have not even heard Putin try to claim that.

A video of the plane as it crashed apparently from the shooters. I guess Merika used some new stealth technology to drop an operative and a BUK unit into a foreign warzone, and get it out again un detected.

I dunno... probably another 50 pieces of circumstantial evidence that anyone with the slightest respect for the victims would not be flat out denying with the very lame line... Yeah. well show the evidence.

So wait, you read all this online and now you want me to believe in it too? You're funny guy Opti...a bit naive, but funny
U.S. already said yesterday that they don't have any proof of Russia's direct involvement...very simple

"A video of the plane as it crashed apparently from the shooters. I guess Merika used some new stealth technology to drop an operative and a BUK unit into a foreign warzone, and get it out again un detected."

Where exactly do you see anyone blaming US for this crash? Are you really that fukkin dumb or you just like to spit out nonsense when you're desperately trying to prove a point?

It's OK to be angry Opti, but angry and dumb at the same time is not a good look, comrade

[Optional]

Yeah, funny stuff.

No I didn't read it online. I was there. <--thats me doin the Putin. Lying to your face about the obvious.

[Russian Rocket]

Yeah, funny stuff.

No I didn't read it online. I was there. <--thats me doin the Putin. Lying to your face about the obvious.

It's like watching a good comedy show Opti

enjoy

[Russian Rocket]

Opti, 4 Ukrainian BUK-1 missile systems, that day, were within the range to shoot down the Malaysian plane.
Why do they even have those systems in place out there? Rebels have no access to aviation of any kind

[onemoregoal]

rocket where were you?
were you inside, or inside a ho?

[Russian Rocket]

rocket where were you?
were you inside, or inside a ho?

Goaler, that's a great question!
More than likely I was inside the ho...can't remember her name though, so I don't have an alibi of any kind at this point.

[15805]

I have no idea what the end game might be with the way things are unfolding right now.

Crimea's people didn't want to be part of the Ukraine's junta regime, so Russia took back that region. The decision was fairly simple, not just because Russia was protecting Russian speaking population, but also because Russia didn't want NATO to have a sea access on their door steps.

Now, the folks, who you refer to as separatists, are fighting for the own little bits of land near Crimea region. The agenda is exactly the same - they don't want to be part of this new Ukrainian regime. The vast majority of them are Russian speaking folks and are hated by this new government.
These junta radicals are closing Russian schools, they're forbiding people from speaking Russian and that's in the cities where you have up to 70-80% of Russian population. And I'm not even talking about mass killings that they do. Like the one that they had in Odessa where they burned people alive in the building and folks who were trying to jump out of the window to escape were shot at. Don't believe me? Look it up online...there are plenty of vids on youtube about it.

Ask yourself what would you do if something like this happened on your land, city...country where you live?

What kind of fukking separatists are we talking about it here? The people who chose to protect their freedom or the actual terrorists who came to power, with the help of US, in March of this year?

I wish Russia didn't waste the time and rolled through Kiev with tanks back in January/February when it all just started. We wouldn't have this conversation right now about this plane and 300 folks who died for nothing.

Already a week after the M17 tragedy the Separatists have shot down 2 more Ukranian Jets & the Ukranians are whining Russian about
Russian weaponry shooting them down. Of course the Separatists are using Russian know-how only a year ago they were working in the wheat fields & mines. They voted for the Russian leaning candidates 80% in the last election 2010, they speak Russian their culture is Russian and Putin as the leader of Russia is not going to see them being slaughtered from the sky.

McCain and his ilk are campaigning for the US to arm Ukraine a terrible idea, Putin has so far showed retraint but if the US arms Ukraine
Putin would have to march the Russian army into the battle & within a month would send Ukrainian soldiers back across the Dneiper.
The US knows that. No need for a WWIII over Ukraine.

News Flash:
"Ukraine crisis: PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk resigns amid government collapse" Not the way to stay strong in a national crisis.
Yats knows the truth and I believe he sees what's coming and is leaving before the water starting coming in through the windows and the entire ship sinks.
Starting to wonder if Ukraine did hit that passenger plane... and he knows about it.

[rkelly110]

Thanks for your reply Rocket. Makes sense the way you explain it compared to the news.

[Russian Rocket]

Thanks for your reply Rocket. Makes sense the way you explain it compared to the news.

You're welcome Kelly

[Russian Rocket]

Already a week after the M17 tragedy the Separatists have shot down 2 more Ukranian Jets & the Ukranians are whining Russian about
Russian weaponry shooting them down. Of course the Separatists are using Russian know-how only a year ago they were working in the wheat fields & mines. They voted for the Russian leaning candidates 80% in the last election 2010, they speak Russian their culture is Russian and Putin as the leader of Russia is not going to see them being slaughtered from the sky.

McCain and his ilk are campaigning for the US to arm Ukraine a terrible idea, Putin has so far showed retraint but if the US arms Ukraine
Putin would have to march the Russian army into the battle & within a month would send Ukrainian soldiers back across the Dneiper.
The US knows that. No need for a WWIII over Ukraine.

News Flash:
"Ukraine crisis: PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk resigns amid government collapse" Not the way to stay strong in a national crisis.
Yats knows the truth and I believe he sees what's coming and is leaving before the water starting coming in through the windows and the entire ship sinks.
Starting to wonder if Ukraine did hit that passenger plane... and he knows about it.

you're absolutely correct

[brooks85]

Already a week after the M17 tragedy the Separatists have shot down 2 more Ukranian Jets & the Ukranians are whining Russian about
Russian weaponry shooting them down. Of course the Separatists are using Russian know-how only a year ago they were working in the wheat fields & mines. They voted for the Russian leaning candidates 80% in the last election 2010, they speak Russian their culture is Russian and Putin as the leader of Russia is not going to see them being slaughtered from the sky.

McCain and his ilk are campaigning for the US to arm Ukraine a terrible idea, Putin has so far showed retraint but if the US arms Ukraine
Putin would have to march the Russian army into the battle & within a month would send Ukrainian soldiers back across the Dneiper.
The US knows that. No need for a WWIII over Ukraine.

News Flash:
"Ukraine crisis: PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk resigns amid government collapse" Not the way to stay strong in a national crisis.
Yats knows the truth and I believe he sees what's coming and is leaving before the water starting coming in through the windows and the entire ship sinks.
Starting to wonder if Ukraine did hit that passenger plane... and he knows about it.

lol would never happen. Putin is nothing more than a kim jong il, a button pusher. Putin know's what would happen if WW3 broke out, it wouldn't be USA who suffered again.

[brooks85]

Thanks for your reply Rocket. Makes sense the way you explain it compared to the news.

yea because a dumb russian clearly has access to factual information. No wonder you make such smart political decisions rkelly, great logic there.

[Russian Rocket]

yea because a dumb russian clearly has access to factual information. No wonder you make such smart political decisions rkelly, great logic there.

hey dumbfukk, so you're questioning a guy who lives in Russia, has many friends in Ukraine, whom he talks to almost daily, and who gets info from that region first hand?

forget everything that I've said in my previous posts....give us the facts about a current situation in Ukraine and about this plane crash...can't wait to hear your fukking story, clown

[brooks85]

hey dumbfukk, so you're questioning a guy who lives in Russia, has many friends in Ukraine, whom he talks to almost daily, and who gets info from that region first hand?

forget everything that I've said in my previous posts....give us the facts about a current situation in Ukraine and about this plane crash...can't wait to hear your fukking story, clown

lol you silly russians, can' see the forest through the trees, open a history book; just make sure it isn't a russian one. I'd trust rkelly, thor or any other dumb liberal over a russian.

[Eddy Munny]

I would probably reply, "No shit Sherlock."

Then, I would dim the lights and exhibit some serious shadow puppet mastery.

[15805]

lol would never happen. Putin is nothing more than a kim jong il, a button pusher. Putin know's what would happen if WW3 broke out, it wouldn't be USA who suffered again.

Try to understand the subject at hand! PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk resigns amid government collapse" he remarked.
“The coalition has fallen apart, laws haven’t been voted on, soldiers can’t be paid, there’s no money to buy rifles, there’s no possibility to store up gas,” Yatsenyuk told lawmakers. “What options do we have now?”

Things are going Putin's way. 83% approval rating in Russia to Obama's 41% here. Obama doesn't know how to counter Putin & if Putin does drive his troops to the Dneiper the US won't go to war over that. Ukraine's in a terrible position, they never should have tried to make war on their own people. Putin does not want to annex Eastern Ukraine, eventually Eastern Ukraine will become independent & allied with Russia.

YES finally this US backed illegal government is on the ropes. This is the extremist right wing government , that violently overthrew a democratically elected government with the help of the United States and now are violently attacking people in the Ukraine eastern region , who refuse to accept their legitimacy.

[Russian Rocket]

lol you silly russians, can' see the forest through the trees, open a history book; just make sure it isn't a russian one. I'd trust rkelly, thor or any other dumb liberal over a russian.

haha...what a deflated reply...however, I didn't expect a better one from an idiot like you
thanks for playing

[Russian Rocket]

Try to understand the subject at hand! PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk resigns amid government collapse" he remarked.
“The coalition has fallen apart, laws haven’t been voted on, soldiers can’t be paid, there’s no money to buy rifles, there’s no possibility to store up gas,” Yatsenyuk told lawmakers. “What options do we have now?”

Things are going Putin's way. 83% approval rating in Russia to Obama's 41% here. Obama doesn't know how to counter Putin & if Putin does drive his troops to the Dneiper the US won't go to war over that. Ukraine's in a terrible position, they never should have tried to make war on their own people. Putin does not want to annex Eastern Ukraine, eventually Eastern Ukraine will become independent & allied with Russia.

YES finally this US backed illegal government is on the ropes. This is the extremist right wing government , that violently overthrew a democratically elected government with the help of the United States and now are violently attacking people in the Ukraine eastern region , who refuse to accept their legitimacy.

you're one of the few people on this board with good sense and sound judgment in what's really happening right now in that region