Live poker dealers lose jobs to machines

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  • bigboydan
    SBR Aristocracy
    • 08-10-05
    • 55420

    #1
    Live poker dealers lose jobs to machines
    Call me old school if you want too, but I wouldn't be playing poker at a place that offered this service only. I mean if you want that type of service then why not just play online.

    The Latest in Job Cuts: Automated Poker Without Dealers

    By MATT VILLANO
    Published: November 5, 2007

    FOLSOM, Calif. — Most card rooms and casinos in Northern California offer live poker the old-fashioned way: with dealers doling out cards and players tossing chips into the center of a table.

    But here at the Folsom Lake Bowl Sports Bar and Casino, just outside Sacramento, the action is entirely different — no cards, no chips and no dealers whatsoever.

    Instead, players gather around poker tables outfitted with game control software and computer touch screens that display virtual cards and chips representing money. Gamblers say the new technology, called PokerPro, has transformed a game that can become tedious into something quick, easy and fun.

    “It’s what I call no-brainer poker,” said Ron Wills, who plays at least three times a week. “No chips to stack, no cards to shuffle, just sit down and play.”

    This level of automation might well become the poker room of the future. At a time when computerized gambling is becoming increasingly popular, PokerPro mixes the speed and efficiency of Internet poker with the stare-them-down, in-your-face quality of playing live.

    The vendor behind the technology, PokerTek of Matthews, N.C., has supplied these high-technology tables to more than 10 new card room and casino customers since May, including an American Indian casino outside Chicago and the Galaxy StarWorld Hotel and Casino in Macao.

    PokerTek’s chief executive, Chris Halligan, said the company had plans to sell a version of PokerPro for restaurants and bars. “It’s all about accessibility,” Mr. Halligan, a former executive at Dell, said. “We’re using technology to make the game even bigger than it is today.”

    The technology, he said, benefits both sides of the table. For the lessees of the table, the 10-seat PokerPro enables poker rooms to use fewer dealers and increases revenue from the percentage the house keeps from each pot. Here, the math is simple: while dealer poker yields an average of 30 hands an hour, PokerPro doles out an average of 46.

    In a California card club, a regulated gambling house where players compete against one another, the tables would increase the house’s share to about $150 a table an hour.

    But playing more hands an hour could help gamblers, by improving the odds that each person will see a playable (and potentially winnable) hand. Players’ bankrolls last longer at PokerPro tables since there are no dealers to tip after winning hands.

    “If you’re doing well, tossing in $1 or $2 after every win can add up,” said Matt Harkness, general manager of the Four Winds Casino Resort in New Buffalo, Mich., which opened this summer with a fully automated poker room. “This technology keeps that money with the players.”

    PokerPro mimics the flow of a regular game. In the center of the table, a large screen displays communal cards as they might look on a regular table. Around the edge of the table, individual touch screens display hands face down, and only make the cards visible when players cup their hands over the screens as they would with real cards.

    The software has built-in features to protect against player error: it gives each player up to one minute to make a decision, and every action must be confirmed before play continues.

    Some, though, are not convinced that the technology represents an improvement.

    Larry Anderson, who plays PokerPro at the Black Oak Casino in Tuolumne, Calif., said that while he enjoys the automated game, occasionally he misses the feel of real cards and the sound of clinking chips.

    “Every now and again, I want the real thing,” he said, and when he does, he gets into his car and drives to Reno, Nev., to play there. “Sometimes, you just can’t beat a real live game,” he said.
  • jon13009
    SBR MVP
    • 09-22-07
    • 1258

    #2
    If I am playing live, I want to see the cards being dealt by a human being.

    Interacting with the dealers in a live poker game provides some of the most amusing entertainment especially when you consistently pretend to forget to put your blinds in and try to check during the first round of betting 3 or 4 times in a row (when you are not in the blinds.)

    Acting stupid, sloshed and silly in front of a computer screen loses its glamour somehow..........
    Comment
    • BigBollocks
      SBR MVP
      • 06-11-06
      • 2045

      #3
      I think it's a tremendous idea Danny. They're absolutely right about the tipping and lack of hands played killing expected profit as well. If those machines were more widespread in their implementation, I'd go play a lot more "live" poker.
      Comment
      • milwaukee mike
        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
        • 08-22-07
        • 26914

        #4
        they should reduce the rake - even though there are more hands that's still $15/hour in rake per person.

        so of course if you play for 6 hours at a low-level table you have to be doing well just to break even.
        Comment
        • bigdog3580
          SBR MVP
          • 08-22-07
          • 3675

          #5
          Sounds cool. Would help in our poker league.
          Comment
          • bigboydan
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 08-10-05
            • 55420

            #6
            Originally posted by BigBollocks
            They're absolutely right about the tipping and lack of hands played killing expected profit as well.
            I'm not saying their wrong about the tipping factor at all, but if somebody just wants to sit in front of a computer screen and play. Then just play online.
            Comment
            • milwaukee mike
              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
              • 08-22-07
              • 26914

              #7
              you can get tells sitting around a table full of people that you can't get just sitting at home by yourself.
              Comment
              • milwaukee mike
                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                • 08-22-07
                • 26914

                #8
                and of course these days it's easier to make deposits and withdrawals at a local casino (and no legality questions) than it is to transfer money to an online poker site.
                Comment
                • BigBollocks
                  SBR MVP
                  • 06-11-06
                  • 2045

                  #9
                  Originally posted by bigboydan
                  I'm not saying their wrong about the tipping factor at all, but if somebody just wants to sit in front of a computer screen and play. Then just play online.
                  Yes Dan, but if I can see the person sitting across from me using their terminal, there is a dimension involved that is not available online. I don't think it'd be too much different than games as they stand now. You'd be able to detect a player on tilt, as well as a lot of other things in developing player tendencies. I still think you'd be able to gather facial reactions and such when the cards hit.

                  There's just way too much of a positive for the slight tradeoff of not physically touching cards and chips for this not be implemented in more places, particularly for those who play to net as much money as possible. If you're a bad player and come just to shoot the shit and have fun, you'd obviously want the manual dealers and chips so that you play as few of hands as possible (thus enabling your bankroll to hold out longer). Again, the day these machines are implemented nearby is the day you see me play a lot more "live" poker...
                  Comment
                  • Al Masters
                    SBR Hall of Famer
                    • 04-29-06
                    • 6940

                    #10
                    Played them don't like them,if they were recieved well they would be in every casino now,but there not just in smaller type places like fla and canada,its basically a tool that favors the casino. at approx 80k for the machine,it eliminates overhead costs ,no dealer to pay no calling in sick and many more hands per hour, it is much closer to playing online then it is playing live.Most pros i know won't go near them.
                    Comment
                    • milwaukee mike
                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                      • 08-22-07
                      • 26914

                      #11
                      what didn't you like about them?
                      i played a computerized live game in oklahoma and enjoyed it.
                      no chance of dealer error, or what i dislike the most A GROUCHY DEALER.
                      even when dealers here are getting tipped well they seem to always be in a foul mood-simple concept that when you are in a customer service business you should be friendly and nice to the customers.
                      but too often poker dealers don't understand that.
                      Comment
                      • rugbybdyb
                        SBR Wise Guy
                        • 09-06-07
                        • 997

                        #12
                        The last cruise I went on they had one of these machines and it was terrible. There were too many weird hands like playing on line too many four of a kinds, str8 flushes etc and everytime you would be about to go out you almost always sucked out to give a bad beat so the computer could keep you in and continue with the rake. I stopped after my second day on the cruise, it was terrible and I recomend not using them if you dont have too, it does speed up the play but really sucks because its just that much faster the money changes hands and you spend the whole time with your head burried in a screen and not interacting with the other player which is the fun part of the game......It totally messes up the probabilities etc that you would usually experience in a live game.
                        Comment
                        • astro61200
                          SBR MVP
                          • 09-15-07
                          • 4843

                          #13
                          Wow, that is stupid.. reminds me of the 5 card draw computer games they used to offer in the arcades by the casinos

                          Also when I get a bad beat in person its not THAT bad, when a screen pops it up, then I feel like I've been cheated
                          Comment
                          • milwaukee mike
                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                            • 08-22-07
                            • 26914

                            #14
                            lol astro i agree with that!
                            especially online where the legitimacy of the game comes in to question.
                            Comment
                            • rugbybdyb
                              SBR Wise Guy
                              • 09-06-07
                              • 997

                              #15
                              I will give you all a quick example of what I saw when I played....The worst of it was when I had a four of a kind and got beat by a high four of a kind.....I think the odds of that happening are about 1 in two million or something crazy....That hand did break me that night....
                              Comment
                              • gmoney641
                                SBR Rookie
                                • 07-29-06
                                • 43

                                #16
                                They tried this at Hollywood park in Los Angeles and it failed. Dealers jobs are safe for now.
                                Comment
                                • Illusion
                                  Restricted User
                                  • 08-09-05
                                  • 25166

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by gmoney641
                                  They tried this at Hollywood park in Los Angeles and it failed. Dealers jobs are safe for now.
                                  I sure hope this does fail, because I do not wanna see this at my local casino.
                                  Comment
                                  • rugbybdyb
                                    SBR Wise Guy
                                    • 09-06-07
                                    • 997

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Illusion
                                    I sure hope this does fail, because I do not wanna see this at my local casino.

                                    If they do it at your local casino dont play it....make sure no one plays it and it will be gone....most casinos will not put more then one or two in and then also have some tables with live dealers, when the tables are not used they will be taken out.....trust me if these machines take over the industry you will see the popullarity drop through the sky, pros wont even play anymore if they are forced to use the computers...
                                    Comment
                                    • True
                                      SBR Rookie
                                      • 12-04-07
                                      • 1

                                      #19
                                      Horrible Poker

                                      Went to a casino recently and was SHOCKED! that this is the only kind of live poker offered! If I wanted to play internet poker I could have saved time and gas money to do that at home! I think this is an outrage and an insult to live players. If they only want the little online teeny boppers to play at their casino they are headed in the right direction. Let's see how many of them can come up with large buy-ins. Not to mention it is taking away peoples jobs. I won't play it again, I'll find a good live game around home. It is not the same as sitting with a live dealer no matter how much these casinos try and sugar coat it, they are the only ones profiting from it. If this is widely accepted it's only because all of the good players have decided to quit going to the casinos for poker and the younger generation has decided to trade in their Pokemon cards, steal Mom and Dads credit cards and play internet poker at a table instead of their parents PC.
                                      Comment
                                      • Travis
                                        SBR High Roller
                                        • 09-07-07
                                        • 105

                                        #20
                                        Cruises

                                        My buddy went on a cruise and the only poker they had was this computer crap. What a sham. Live dealers is the only way to go. I only play online for the convenience. I much prefer a live game to any other. Poker is a game where you really do need to see your opponent.
                                        Comment
                                        • Travis
                                          SBR High Roller
                                          • 09-07-07
                                          • 105

                                          #21
                                          Carnival Wants PokerPro Tables on All 22 Ships

                                          PokerTek, the company who manufactures the PokerPro live digital poker tables has entered an agreement with Carnival Cruise Lines to place machines on all 22 of its ships. PokerTek started a trial run with Carnival in April of 2006, and the cruise line liked the PokerPro tables so much they ordered enough for the entire fleet.

                                          The two companies have also teamed up to offer the Carnival PokerPro Challenge. Players can win satellites to the main event for $150 on select ships starting in January. Players who win the satellites receive $750 and entry into the October final.

                                          Satellites for World Series of Poker events have also been won on PokerPro tables on Carnival ships. PokerTek tables are showing up in casinos around the world, and its WSOP-branded play-for-amusement heads-up bar game is being distributed in every major American market.


                                          -taken from a card player article
                                          Comment
                                          • rugbybdyb
                                            SBR Wise Guy
                                            • 09-06-07
                                            • 997

                                            #22
                                            [QUOTE=Travis;439482]Carnival Wants PokerPro Tables on All 22 Ships

                                            I have been on two Carnival ships, the first year was a real dealer and the second year was the computer and as stated before stay away its almost worse than the internet, this company needs to stop making these stupid machines and let the real dealers deal.
                                            Comment
                                            • jon13009
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 09-22-07
                                              • 1258

                                              #23
                                              Regardless of the lower rake and no tip requirements of a machine poker table, I would prefer a live dealer to a video holdem poker table.

                                              Dealers add real atmosphere to the games. A sour and strict dealer will make the players a bit tight. A loose and relaxed dealer will make the table more enjoyable. If everyone is there staring at a screen, it would take a bit out of the game.
                                              Comment
                                              • bigboydan
                                                SBR Aristocracy
                                                • 08-10-05
                                                • 55420

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by jon13009
                                                Regardless of the lower rake and no tip requirements of a machine poker table, I would prefer a live dealer to a video holdem poker table.

                                                Dealers add real atmosphere to the games. A sour and strict dealer will make the players a bit tight. A loose and relaxed dealer will make the table more enjoyable. If everyone is there staring at a screen, it would take a bit out of the game.
                                                I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here that feels that way Jon.
                                                Comment
                                                • Louisvillekid1
                                                  SBR Aristocracy
                                                  • 10-17-07
                                                  • 52143

                                                  #25
                                                  I am a Poker Dealer, and i have no worries about this. . . Seems to be more popular for blackjack, at places like racetracks etc. . . I also play poker part - time and i hate these things, i enjoy to deal and i also enjoy to play the knowing that there is 0% chance the cards are rigged. . . Will always question that against these electronic tables. . . Will never because popular in the poker world. . .
                                                  Comment
                                                  • jon13009
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 09-22-07
                                                    • 1258

                                                    #26
                                                    Actually I had an issue at a poker table where the players on the other end of the table were actually showing and discussing their cards. I didn't notice this; however somehow the dealer picked it up and told the two to stop or they would be asked to leave.

                                                    I doubt that players sitting at a video poker table would be able to police the table properly, thus dealers serve more than a service besides keeping the table well mannered and jovial.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • rugbybdyb
                                                      SBR Wise Guy
                                                      • 09-06-07
                                                      • 997

                                                      #27
                                                      Jon,

                                                      I had something like this happen to me but it was in a free tourney so I did not say anything but I had two deaf player at my table and they constantly were talking back and forth using sign language and none of us had any chance of knowing what they were talking about but Im sure it was the cards, the dealer finally told them that they could only talk during breaks, deal etc....Im positive the machines could not have helped me with this....

                                                      And Lousiville thanks for dealing keep it up maybe someday I will end up at your table......
                                                      Comment
                                                      • DansFLB
                                                        Restricted User
                                                        • 12-14-07
                                                        • 16

                                                        #28
                                                        I actually am the owner of a Poker Pro room in Folsom Ca called FLB Sports Bar & Casino. What I can tell you is that you have to try out a Poker Pro table before you make up your mind on which way is the best way to play. I'm a regular poker player of over 5 years and I was skeptical as well about playing on an automated poker table, but after trying it I was amazed. What you get by playing on a poker pro table is the same interaction as you do on a manual table so it's much better than playing on the internet. What you also get is the ability to see more hands per hour, with NO mistakes from the dealer or player, and here's the biggest benefit more money stays on the table because your not constantly tipping the dealer!

                                                        What poker players look for when they go to a casino is to play poker, bottom line. Dealers are trained to deal poker as fast as they can and try not to make mistakes. That is what a poker pro table does! On a poker pro table you see 50% more hands and it's truly fun!

                                                        One of the comments that was made earlier on this forum was that there was more bad beats, and that is correct because at some points there are twice as many bad beats because your seeing twice as many hands in some cases! (Poker Pro compared to a slow dealer) This is a point that many players have a rough time realizing. Bad Bets are part of poker, listen to many of these forums that's what players complain about. You also have twice as many times where AA hold up, just realize your seeing more hands in less time. At our casino quads beating quads has not happened yet and we've had poker pro for more than 10 months! The other main point is that if you would have been playing at our casino you would have won 40% of our Bad Beat Jackpot and last week our Jackpot was over $25,000! The worst Bad Beat we've had was AAAA beating AAAQQ. We've had 5 Bad Beat Jackpots in the last 10 months and we have never had quads beating Quads or a straight flush beating quads etc. When you see more hands the Jackpot raises faster and hits more often! Our JP has hit on average at $23,000!

                                                        Here is the thing there are so many reasons why playing on automated tables is better than playing on manual dealt tables, you have to try them out before you jump to any conclusions it's different than you think. I will respond to any questions that you might have, and if you want to learn more on why poker pro is the best way to play poker check out our website at www.folsomlakebowl.com
                                                        Best Regards,
                                                        Dan Dreher
                                                        FLB Sports Bar & Casino
                                                        Folsom, Ca
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Louisvillekid1
                                                          SBR Aristocracy
                                                          • 10-17-07
                                                          • 52143

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by DansFLB
                                                          I actually am the owner of a Poker Pro room in Folsom Ca called FLB Sports Bar & Casino. What I can tell you is that you have to try out a Poker Pro table before you make up your mind on which way is the best way to play. I'm a regular poker player of over 5 years and I was skeptical as well about playing on an automated poker table, but after trying it I was amazed. What you get by playing on a poker pro table is the same interaction as you do on a manual table so it's much better than playing on the internet. What you also get is the ability to see more hands per hour, with NO mistakes from the dealer or player, and here's the biggest benefit more money stays on the table because your not constantly tipping the dealer!

                                                          What poker players look for when they go to a casino is to play poker, bottom line. Dealers are trained to deal poker as fast as they can and try not to make mistakes. That is what a poker pro table does! On a poker pro table you see 50% as many hands and it's truly fun!

                                                          One of the comments that was made earlier on this forum was that there was more bad beats, and that's right there's at some points are more than twice as many bad beats because your seeing twice as many hands in some cases! (Poker Pro compared to a slow dealer) This is a point that many players have a rough time realizing. Bad Bets are part of poker, listen to many of these forums that's what players complain about. You also have twice as many times where AA hold up, just realize your seeing more hands in less time. At our casino quads beating quads has not happened yet and we've had poker pro for more than 10 months! The other main point is that if you would have been playing at our casino you would have won 40% of our Bad Beat Jackpot and last week our Jackpot was over $25,000! The worst Bad Beat we've had was AAAA beating AAAQQ. We've had 5 Bad Beat Jackpots in the last 10 months an we have never had quads beating Quads or a straight flush beating quads etc. When you see more hands the Jackpot raises faster and hits more often! Our JP has hit on average at $23,000!

                                                          Here is the thing there are so many reasons why playing on automated tables is better than playing on manual dealt tables, you have to try them out before you jump to any conclusions it's different than you think. I will respond to any questions that you might have, and if you want to learn more on why poker pro is the best way to play poker check out our website at www.folsomlakebowl.com
                                                          Best Regards,
                                                          Dan Dreher
                                                          FLB Sports Bar & Casino
                                                          Folsom, Ca

                                                          Good Plug for your company, stop trying to use your sales pitch on here. Talk like player not a distrubuter. You take that right out of your website?
                                                          Comment
                                                          • slacker00
                                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                                            • 10-06-05
                                                            • 12262

                                                            #30
                                                            I like the idea. I hate handling physical cards. It's old fashioned. Let's get into the 21st century already. They should reduce the rake since they don't have to pay a dealer.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Al Masters
                                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                                              • 04-29-06
                                                              • 6940

                                                              #31
                                                              [QUOTE=DansFLB;447934]I actually am the owner of a Poker Pro room in Folsom Ca called FLB Sports Bar & Casino. What I can tell you is that you have to try out a Poker Pro table before you make up your mind on which way is the best way to play. I'm a regular poker player of over 5 years and I was skeptical as well about playing on an automated poker table, but after trying it I was amazed. What you get by playing on a poker pro table is the same interaction as you do on a manual table so it's much better than playing on the internet. What you also get is the ability to see more hands per hour, with NO mistakes from the dealer or player, and here's the biggest benefit more money stays on the table because your not constantly tipping the dealer!

                                                              What poker players look for when they go to a casino is to play poker, bottom line. Dealers are trained to deal poker as fast as they can and try not to make mistakes. That is what a poker pro table does! On a poker pro table you see 50% as many hands and it's truly fun!

                                                              One of the comments that was made earlier on this forum was that there was more bad beats, and that's right there's at some points are more than twice as many bad beats because your seeing twice as many hands in some cases! (Poker Pro compared to a slow dealer) This is a point that many players have a rough time realizing. Bad Bets are part of poker, listen to many of these forums that's what players complain about. You also have twice as many times where AA hold up, just realize your seeing more hands in less time. At our casino quads beating quads has not happened yet and we've had poker pro for more than 10 months! The other main point is that if you would have been playing at our casino you would have won 40% of our Bad Beat Jackpot and last week our Jackpot was over $25,000! The worst Bad Beat we've had was AAAA beating AAAQQ. We've had 5 Bad Beat Jackpots in the last 10 months an we have never had quads beating Quads or a straight flush beating quads etc. When you see more hands the Jackpot raises faster and hits more often! Our JP has hit on average at $23,000!

                                                              Here is the thing there are so many reasons why playing on automated tables is better than playing on manual dealt tables, you have to try them out before you jump to any conclusions it's different than you think. I will respond to any questions that you might have, and if you want to learn more on why poker pro is the best way to play poker check out our website at www.folsomlakebowl.com
                                                              Best Regards,
                                                              Dan Dreher
                                                              FLB Sports Bar & Casino
                                                              Folsom, Ca[/QUO

                                                              We'll Dan, i for one have played the automated machines and don't enjoy playing them nearly as much as with a live dealer.

                                                              I know many top flight players who have also played on them, and although i never kept stats i'd honestly say it's like 80% dislike vs 20% like.

                                                              I think it's safe to say there is not a right or wrong here, its all just opinion.so if i question a few of your points, i'm not trying to prove you wrong , just emphizizing the popular opinon.

                                                              1st of all the machine offers nothing i cant find online, except a car ride to a casino, and a waiting list.

                                                              2nd the limits are usually small.

                                                              3rd, with live dealers,in a good poker room if a bunch of players want to play a different game like omaha or razz or triple draw, or horse or perhaps a limit or pot limit game or maybe a shorthanded game, you just ask a floorperson and if they can they will spread it, not with a automated machine.

                                                              You mention that there are many reasons why playing machines are better then playing live yet your only real good point is that you can interact more then online(agreed), and in that case i can just as well play live.

                                                              Your other point bout seeing more hands per hour then in a live game is also true,however in that case i can remain home and play online,with many more choices of games then the machines.

                                                              "what poker players look for when they go to a casino is to play poker .bottom line"..........SO NOT TRUE. no offense, but only a rank amateur would make this comment. I go to make money and have gone many times to a casino and left cause the game wasnt right or the list on the game i wanted to play was to deep, i just don't jump into any available game going on.

                                                              Your point bout saving money by saving on the tips.

                                                              Personally i only tip when the dealers keep there own, and am happy to tip them, plus any player that doesn't want to tip is not obliged thus this point becomes mute.

                                                              Lets be honest here you like it because as owner of the establishment it generates you more money then a dealer would without all the headaches associated with dealers.

                                                              Or as louisville stated your part of the company.

                                                              Either way IMO they wont last or ever be in big time casinos, just smaller casinos and cruise ships and the islands, where they can make more money for the operater.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • DansFLB
                                                                Restricted User
                                                                • 12-14-07
                                                                • 16

                                                                #32
                                                                Louisville I'm glad to see that you were open to admitting the fact that you are a dealer, understand you have a fight in this battle, Also please understand that at our casino we respect our dealers, that's why we never let go of a single dealer from moving to poker pro. All of our dealers kept their jobs, were given raises and now deal Blackjack at our casino and two of our dealers were promoted to floor positions in the poker room and one dealer was promoted to a blackjack supervisor. I understand where your coming from but playing poker on a poker pro table is more advantages for the player and that's what's important to us at our casino. Our dealers are also important and that is why we did what I described above.

                                                                The main points I listed on the last post are points that are definitely written on our website. I wrote all of those points on the website and they were the main ground points to address before we start talking more in depth about this topic. Not everyone will visit our website to understand these points, that's why they are listed.

                                                                Al Masters thanks for your breakdown of points, I would like to address a couple of your points in return.

                                                                Your right when you say it's all about a players opinion, in our case I can tell you that we have more players that like and prefer to play on our automated tables than we have players that dislike them. Realistically my guess at our casino would be 70% Like 10% Play both 20% Dislike. Some players dislike just because they don't like change. I can tell you our player base and customer retention has grown significantly since we brought on Poker Pro almost a year ago/.

                                                                What our casino offers is the same experience that every other casino offers and the reason players come is for social interaction, meeting new people, making money on people other than your friends, Having a cocktail waitress and getting drinks and food catered to you. We are all about making our customers have an enjoyable experience.

                                                                Poker Pro is much different and in many players opinion much better than online because you see the player your playing against, you get the same reads off a player at our casino than at any other casino with cards & chips. There are certainly reads that players get off of other players from the way they hold their cards to the way they use their chips. On a poker pro table there are just as many tells from the way they cup their cards, how long they look at them, check them, and where they move when selecting chips. I would be more than happy to show you examples of these tells in person.

                                                                Waiting lists are much less of a problem now than they were before with manual tables because when we start additional tables we are not dependent on having a dealer or getting them off break, setting up their tray etc. We just open an additional table and were off and running.

                                                                Limits vary from casino to casino, we aim to offer what the majority of our players want to play, which at our casino is 1/2 & 2/3 No limit $ 3/6 Limit. This may be small for you but seems to meet the needs of the majority of our players. On Saturday Nights we spread a 3/5NL & we also offer a $5/10 NL We also have decent sized tournaments once a month, our next one is a $320 buy-in $12,000+ Prize Pool tournament Jan 5th.

                                                                In our Poker Room we currently offer Omaha High Low and Pot limit on our poker pro tables. Imagine playing Omaha and seeing 40+ hands an hour with zero mistakes! We currently don't offer Razz or triple draw but neither do the casino's in our area. We will also have 7 Card Stud available in the future on our poker pro tables. Switching to any of these games is easy, our floor people do it all the time. So you can just ask and we can and do offer this currently on our tables.

                                                                Really important points you won't find on manual tables, you see more hands per hour, zero player mistakes, zero dealer mistakes, those are very valid points.

                                                                Additionally it's much cleaner, no dirty chips, cards etc there is no marking cards, or stacking decks, no out of turn betting, betting the wrong amount, Jackpots raise faster and hit more often comparatively to manual tables. So you bring up points why playing automated is better than playing online because it's more social and why it's better than playing in a manual card room because you see more hands and more money stays on the table and that's my point as well it's the best of both worlds.

                                                                Here is another HUGE selling factor, the FLB Casino starting this coming week is the 1st and only casino on the west coast to offer our players a 1 MILLION DOLLAR BAD BEAT TEXAS HOLD'EM JACKPOT! The best part is that it's an added bonus to the player at NO additional cost or drop. The BBJP will be 6666 beaten by any suit Royal Flush, and the jackpot will pay out 40/20/40 when it hits! This is the biggest Texas Hold'em Jackpot ever to be offered and you can only find it currently at the FLB Casino in Folsom Ca & at Southland Gaming and Racing, a Poker Pro room on the east coast located in West Memphis, Arkansas.

                                                                Addressing another persons comment that it should be a reduced rake, and at our casino it is. Our local competitors charge $4 a hand and a $1 going towards the BBJP which is seeded at $2000 We charge $3 a hand + $1 towards the BBJP which is seeded at $10,000 and has hit 5 times in 10 months for an average of $23,000 We also are going to be offering starting this coming week the Million Dollar BBJP for our players! Not to mention how much money players save overall, it's a serious cost savings to the players. One last additional point is our Freeroll tournaments which we have every month, we have been giving back on average $15,000 a month to our players on these Freerolls!

                                                                You misunderstood my point about playing poker I totally agree with your point that there are other factors, I was merely saying that we like to play poker not listen to dealers talk about their BB or what their doing after work or waiting for dealer switches, shuffling or shufflers, we like to play poker when were at the table. I agree with your point it is very important on whether there's money to be made, whether there is a wait, whether the limit was suitable, etc. I am a player and I do understand these points and agree with you 100%

                                                                I am and always have been a tipper as well, extreme in fact, at the table, restaurants, bars, etc. The point I made is that if there is nobody to tip, look at all that money which is saved. At our casino it was on average a $2 tip a hand and our dealers were putting out between 25-30 hands an hour. $55 on average an hour saved is significant!

                                                                Any Player who is not obligated to tip is still affected because if they loose lets say a $300 pot to another player who tips the dealer $10 on their win, the player that lost the pot who is not a tipper has no chance at ever getting that $10 that was tipped back. After a 4 hour session imagine the amount of money leaving the table. The tipped money is not only lost from the player who doesn't mind tipping but also from the non tipping player as well! Definitely not a mute point. If it makes you feel good to tip, play on the Blackjack table or tip a cocktail waitress or a floor person who takes care of you, that's what I do.

                                                                Does it make sense as a business standpoint, Absolutely. I do like it because it's better for the business without the headache of the poker dealer, but comparatively the casino gives back that added money to the players in less drop, Huge freerolls, higher seeded BBJP, paying for a Million $ BBJP not to mention the fact that the players still benefit more and save more money than playing on a manual table! With automated poker everyone wins and that's why it works and is growing throughout the world.

                                                                You are right, I am part of my company, and I truly believe and stand behind what we offer, but I'm also a poker player that loves the game of poker. What I'm talking to you guys about is how automated poker is the best poker experience possible, try it out and see for yourself!

                                                                The big time casino's are starting to take them as we speak, Harris has signed an exclusive deal with Poker Tek and I know of 3 other major casino that will be taking them on here in the very near future. Poker Tek is just completing their licensing in Nevada and that is why you haven't seen them in any Nevada casino's yet. Automated poker is the way of the future, it's a better and more enjoyable way to play poker, try it out a couple times with an open mind and you will see what I'm talking about! For anyone in Ca that is near our casino I will offer my time to show you our tables and why playing poker pro is the best way to play poker, check out our website and go to contact us and send me an email. (I guess the forum won't allow you to enter in an email address, sorry)
                                                                Best Regards,
                                                                Dan
                                                                Comment
                                                                • milwaukee mike
                                                                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                  • 08-22-07
                                                                  • 26914

                                                                  #33
                                                                  $2 average tip per hand?
                                                                  there's no way that can be true on a $2/4 game or even a $5/10 or $10/20 limit game.
                                                                  there's way too many hands out of that 25-30 per hour that don't make it past the flop.

                                                                  the only games i have seen average tips that high are no limit games, and from what i have seen of machines they are mostly low limit games.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • milwaukee mike
                                                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                    • 08-22-07
                                                                    • 26914

                                                                    #34
                                                                    even without the hands that don't make it past the flop i don't see too many players tipping more than $2 a hand on a $5/10 limit game.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • milwaukee mike
                                                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                      • 08-22-07
                                                                      • 26914

                                                                      #35
                                                                      but you bring up a good point about saving tips.

                                                                      the point i have always tried to make to my poker-buddies is that if you play a $2/4 game or even a higher limit game you are almost certainly going to be down in the long run.

                                                                      let's say $6 per player per hour in rake and another $2 per player per hour in tips (if we're using dan's numbers that would be $6/hour/player in tips).

                                                                      so on a 5 hour session you're out $40 if you're breaking even. over the long run there's not that much of an advantage for a very good player to overcome 20 big blinds every session.
                                                                      Comment
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