Interesting hand, curious who agrees/disagrees with this fold

BigOrange · 08-10-19, 09:21 PM

You folded the Ace high flush with no pair on the board and only losing to the straight flush?

That is an instacall, If you're beat, you are just beat.

bigblue74 · 08-10-19, 10:07 PM

Hey I know you been cool with me but giving you some tough love... This thread was embarrassing

fried cheese · 08-10-19, 10:56 PM

i think the fold is good unless you have seen him overbet bluff like that before.

bobbywaves · 08-10-19, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by BigOrange

That is an instacall, If you're beat, you are just beat.

Not an instacall for me. But I would call at the last second, making him show me the str8 flush.

Considering you're playing for pts, the only player folding Ace high flush there, with no full house possibilities, is a pu$$y.

Optional · 08-11-19, 01:16 AM

What were you thinking to fold?

ArunSh · 08-11-19, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by Optional

What were you thinking to fold?

Pretty simple. Klemo is not a maniac, I've played with him enough to know that. So what hand do you think he has to make such a huge raise on the river? Do you really think he's doing that with a lower flush, knowing that I could certainly have the nut flush since I've been betting the whole way (or the person behind, Xstream, could have it also)? Also add to the fact that if he does have a lower flush what worse hand is going to call him there? If he has lower flush, he can't possibly think that I would call such an overraise with an even worse flush so what is he trying to extract value from? And obviously the second highest flush would have the J in it which would mean he's halfway to the straight flush already. Or do you really think he's shoving there with say the Ten high flush?

Anyway I was pretty sure he had the straight flush the way the hand played out so I folded - maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong. Obviously some people are going to disagree, that's why I made this thread because I was curious what others thought.

I should note also that I asked klemo after the hand in chat, and he confirmed that he did have the straight flush. Possible he was lying - I obviously can't be sure, but maybe he'll chime in here or post the HH.

But anyway, whether I was right or wrong in this specific circumstance, it's an interesting spot imo. And I disagree with those who say "if he has it, it's just a cooler just accept it". Sure there are some circumstances when that's true, but that is also sometimes a bit too easy of a cop-out in my opinion. My friend who plays deep stacked omaha hi cash games professionally told me that one big leak that people have in those games early on is that they absolutely refuse to fold middle (or even bottom) set on a dry flop no matter what - they simply write if off to a "cooler" if they have set under set. But according to him and others, if you play with that mindset, you will lose $ long-term for sure.

In any case to anyone (like Waves) who wants to say that since this is for "points" that it's stupid to fold - that's just silly logic imo. My goal, whatever the stakes I'm playing for, is to try to always make the proper play - that's just a good goal in general helps you improve long-term. And to suggest that you should make the play you feel is wrong just because the stakes are low is silly. It's that same kind of mindset that often kills people when they play higher stakes than usual - they often do the opposite there, play too scared, don't play their A game because they are intimidated. The same way, just because you are playing for low stakes, doesn't mean you should not make the play you think is best.

franklee168 · 08-11-19, 08:45 AM

I would have called just to see the chips flying. But since I never have any points, you made the right fold.

JAKEPEAVY21 · 08-11-19, 09:03 AM

I would have to see it.

mpaschal34 · 08-11-19, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21

I would have to see it.

Same here...I call.

dlowilly · 08-11-19, 02:39 PM

Arunsh I don't understand the last line of the hand history unless I'm missing something. The amount bet and amount won don't coincide if there were no callers. Or was his bet more than what is shown and SBR only shows the amount of the next highest stack?

Anyway, I can see why you made the fold. Jd10d is a very likely hand there. There is no low so he has to be shoving with what he knows is not the nuts. I can't remember what my notes are on klemo but in a live cash game somewhere I like this fold. You're up against 5 other players that saw the flop. That right there increases the odds of a Jd10d holding somewhere. The cards that came also would be calls for a Jd10d to call throughout. Then it's a big overbet where you aren't even getting much more than 1 to 1 on your call. So in a live cash game I like the fold depending on if you knew the player was at least somewhat good.

On SBR it complicates things. No matter how good he is he may or may not have a rollover which changes the dynamic significantly. People make big bets and calls they never would without rolling over. So basically I like this fold in a live cash game and think it's slightly +ev on here since he might be rolling over.

thetrinity · 08-11-19, 03:20 PM

Not sure haven’t played against him that much, some players I would fold against on here.

This is an interesting one. The flush did hit the turn and he just called which makes me think this is a straight flush

cincinnatikid513 · 08-11-19, 03:25 PM

gotta see it how can u sleep at night

ArunSh · 08-11-19, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by dlowilly

Arunsh I don't understand the last line of the hand history unless I'm missing something. The amount bet and amount won don't coincide if there were no callers. Or was his bet more than what is shown and SBR only shows the amount of the next highest stack?

Anyway, I can see why you made the fold. Jd10d is a very likely hand there. There is no low so he has to be shoving with what he knows is not the nuts. I can't remember what my notes are on klemo but in a live cash game somewhere I like this fold. You're up against 5 other players that saw the flop. That right there increases the odds of a Jd10d holding somewhere. The cards that came also would be calls for a Jd10d to call throughout. Then it's a big overbet where you aren't even getting much more than 1 to 1 on your call. So in a live cash game I like the fold depending on if you knew the player was at least somewhat good.

On SBR it complicates things. No matter how good he is he may or may not have a rollover which changes the dynamic significantly. People make big bets and calls they never would without rolling over. So basically I like this fold in a live cash game and think it's slightly +ev on here since he might be rolling over.

Yes, I didn't understand the "win amount" either, SBR I guess does weird things sometimes. I rechecked - that's definitely what the HH says, and I just copy pasted it. But obviously whatever that says, not especially relevant, the action of the hand is correct so that's what is pertinent towards the decision.

As expected, there is definitely some disagreement about what the proper play here is, and stakes aside, that's what I really care about, trying to make the proper play (whether I'm playing for SBR pennies or thousands of dollars). Even though some good players like Jake and mpaschal say they would have called, I still do feel like he had it so I'm not unhappy with my fold. And his confirming in chat that he had the straight flush (ok again I don't know for sure he was being honest, but I feel like he was being honest the way he was talking) definitely somewhat validates that.

In any case, an interesting hand as it definitely feels like there are good players on both sides of this or unsure about it. As such an interesting debate, whatever the proper decision actually was!

thetrinity · 08-11-19, 03:30 PM

I think the river bet should be bigger at any rate.

If you just look at how it plays out, it really does look like jd10d

ArunSh · 08-11-19, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by thetrinity

I think the river bet should be bigger at any rate.

If you just look at how it plays out, it really does look like jd10d

Yes, quite possibly I should have bet bigger on river. Naturally was trying to extract value from what was essentially the nuts, but ok if they have a lower flush they probably will pay off a bit bigger of a bet.

Anyway, my play aside, the question of whether or not to fold once in that situation is obviously the main question, and it seems like different people have different opinions - why I thought this would be a good hand to discus again!

thetrinity · 08-11-19, 03:42 PM

Put me in the fold camp after thinking about it. I’ll take your word on how he plays. The fact the flush hit the turn and he just calls is important