To all you idiots who think gambling online is illegal....

[TexansFan]

The Supreme Court has never made a ruling regarding online gambling. There are many conflicting opinions regarding the Wire Act of 1961, some saying that it doesn't include the internet since Al Gore hadn't yet invented it.

[Demonata]

YA the thing you got to look at is has anyone really ever gone to jail or court over gambling at site located in a different country?

[cyberinvestor]

YA the thing you got to look at is has anyone really ever gone to jail or court over gambling at site located in a different country?

The answer is no. Not even in the states where the act of being a gambler is illegal (which again is about half a dozen or so).

Back in the late 90's Senator Kyl was trying to pass his Kyl Act which would have outlawed online gambling. At the time the bill included a provision on the Federal level that would have made the individual gamblers (each of us here) criminals. The bill was shot down by the House mainly due to comments out of the Supreme Court which stated that they would have more than likely overturned the bill on the grounds that you could not criminalize individual bettors. Their comments came out of studies by the Justice Department which stated; "The Justice Department has, moreover, confessed it cannot enforce a broader ban on Internet gambling. In mid-1996, the National Association of Attorneys General urged the Justice Department to interpret the Wire Act along the lines of Kyl's bill. The Justice Department declined, explaining, "The department does not agree that federal law should be amended so broadly as to cover the first-time bettor who loses $ 5."

The UIGEA requires banks to monitor gambling transactions and enforce a ban on those transactions. Once again, in the UIGEA the gambler is not subject to prosecution for funding gambling offshore. The processors, banks, and others who aid in the system of getting your money offshore is where the illegality arises.

[RudyRuetigger]

Yes, atleast 1 person has

[cyberinvestor]

Yes, atleast 1 person has

I would be interested in these case facts and to know what the charges were. I doubt it was just gambling. Most people here are just gamblers with no other issues.

Al Capone was charged on tax evasion but they were after him for other reasons. They could have cared less about the taxes, they really wanted him on the others but they settled for taxes.

[TEXAS MICKEY]

Where the crux comes in all of this, is the ""WIRE ACT"" Anything you do, using your computer or telephone for gambling purposes is illegal, except in those 10-12 states that allow horse wagering by phone or computer. That's why you can't call and set-up an account in Vegas for sports wagering, the feds don't and will not allow it. All this tax shit is taken care of when you cash your ticket.
There is a set amount for taxing, slots in Nevada is like 1200 dollars, horse racing is like anything that pays 300/1 or more, and I think, if you hit one of those parlay cards out in Vegas on a 15-20 teamer, you gotta pay the tax. You can waive the tax and take all the winnings, but you can bet your sweetass, you will be signing a 1099 form, before you the leave the window with your winnings.
A good tax lawyer will get you straight on what you can and can't do. There so many blow dikks on here about how they do and don't pay taxes on winnings, wouldn't trust any of ya and that includes myself..............

[bobbywaves]

if you scared to break the law you are a pussy. fukk the po po

Agree, paying taxes on winnings is for pussies.

[blackbart]

no one has ever been convicted of betting online

[milwaukee mike]

Where the crux comes in all of this, is the ""WIRE ACT"" Anything you do, using your computer or telephone for gambling purposes is illegal, except in those 10-12 states that allow horse wagering by phone or computer. That's why you can't call and set-up an account in Vegas for sports wagering, the feds don't and will not allow it. All this tax shit is taken care of when you cash your ticket.
There is a set amount for taxing, slots in Nevada is like 1200 dollars, horse racing is like anything that pays 300/1 or more, and I think, if you hit one of those parlay cards out in Vegas on a 15-20 teamer, you gotta pay the tax. You can waive the tax and take all the winnings, but you can bet your sweetass, you will be signing a 1099 form, before you the leave the window with your winnings.
A good tax lawyer will get you straight on what you can and can't do. There so many blow dikks on here about how they do and don't pay taxes on winnings, wouldn't trust any of ya and that includes myself..............

mickey i would like to correct you on one item.
$1200 for slots is not the limit for TAXING, it is the limit that the casinos have to WITHHOLD TAXES on.
if you win $10 it is still taxable.

but the guy that pays tax on every $10 win, while being on the up and up, is a complete stooge. an ordinary poker player in wisconsin would have $1 million in winnings, $1 million in losses, and owe the state of wisconsin $77,500/year in taxes (wisconsin doesn't allow losses to offset winnings). and anyone trying to claim "professional gambler status" will get audited and disallowed.

there are states like nevada/texas/florida that don't tax, and quite a few other states that allow the federal itemized deductions, but anyone in a state like wisconsin that is reporting their winnings properly is a moron.

[cyberinvestor]

Where the crux comes in all of this, is the ""WIRE ACT"" Anything you do, using your computer or telephone for gambling purposes is illegal, except in those 10-12 states that allow horse wagering by phone or computer. That's why you can't call and set-up an account in Vegas for sports wagering, the feds don't and will not allow it. All this tax shit is taken care of when you cash your ticket. There is a set amount for taxing, slots in Nevada is like 1200 dollars, horse racing is like anything that pays 300/1 or more, and I think, if you hit one of those parlay cards out in Vegas on a 15-20 teamer, you gotta pay the tax. You can waive the tax and take all the winnings, but you can bet your sweetass, you will be signing a 1099 form, before you the leave the window with your winnings. A good tax lawyer will get you straight on what you can and can't do. There so many blow dikks on here about how they do and don't pay taxes on winnings, wouldn't trust any of ya and that includes myself..............

I am not trying to be rude but you are 100% incorrect. The WIRE ACT does not make "anything you do using your computer or telephone illegal except in those 10-12 states that allow horse wagers".

Here is what the wire act REALLY means:

In 1961, Congress enacted the Wire Act as a part of series of antiracketeering laws. The Wire Act complements other federal bookmaking statutes, such as the Travel Act (interstate travel in aid of racketeering enterprises, including gambling), the Interstate Transportation of Wagering Paraphernalia Act, and the Illegal Gambling Business Act (requires a predicate state law violation).
The Wire Act was intended to assist the states, territories and possessions of the United States, as well as the District of Columbia, in enforcing their respective laws on gambling and bookmaking and to suppress organized gambling activities.[58] Subsection (a) of the Wire Act, a criminal provision, provides:

Whoever being engaged in the business of betting or wagering knowingly uses a wire communication facility for the transmission in interstate or foreign commerce of bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest, or for the transmission of a wire communication which entitles the recipient to receive money or credit as a result of bets or wagers, or for information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.[59]

In order to prove a prima facie case, the government must establish that:

1. The person was "engaged in the business of betting or wagering"
2. (compared with a casual bettor);
3. The person transmitted in interstate or foreign commerce:
   1. bets or wagers,
   2. information assisting in the placement of bets or wagers, or
   3. a communication that entitled the recipient to receive money or credit as a result of a bet or wager;
4. The person used a " wire communication facility;" and
5. The person knowingly used a wire communication facility to engage in one of the three prohibited forms of transmissions.

In analyzing the first element, the legislative history[60] of the Wire Act seems to support the position that casual bettors would fall outside of the prosecutorial reach of the statute. During the House of Representatives debate on the bill, Congressman Emanuel Celler, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee stated "[t]his bill only gets after the bookmaker, the gambler who makes it his business to take bets or to lay off bets. . . It does not go after the causal gambler who bets $2 on a race. That type of transaction is not within the purvue of the statute."[61] In Baborian, the federal district court concluded that Congress did not intend to include social bettors within the umbrella of the statute, even those bettors that bet large sums of money and show a certain degree of sophistication.[62]


The law CLEARLY states its purpose is to go after the bookmaker. Federal district court ruled that this does not include bettors, either small, or large and sophisticated.

So once again guys, I am not trying to smack anyone in the face but before you render a judgement it is a good idea if you do research. The wire act DOES NOT criminalize gamblers. It is in place to go after bookmakers!

So once again there is no law on the Federal level which makes it illegal for me or you to be a gambler. State law varies but again is limited to a half dozen or so states.

[lt56]

The answer is no. Not even in the states where the act of being a gambler is illegal (which again is about half a dozen or so).

Back in the late 90's Senator Kyl was trying to pass his Kyl Act which would have outlawed online gambling. At the time the bill included a provision on the Federal level that would have made the individual gamblers (each of us here) criminals. The bill was shot down by the House mainly due to comments out of the Supreme Court which stated that they would have more than likely overturned the bill on the grounds that you could not criminalize individual bettors. Their comments came out of studies by the Justice Department which stated; "The Justice Department has, moreover, confessed it cannot enforce a broader ban on Internet gambling. In mid-1996, the National Association of Attorneys General urged the Justice Department to interpret the Wire Act along the lines of Kyl's bill. The Justice Department declined, explaining, "The department does not agree that federal law should be amended so broadly as to cover the first-time bettor who loses $ 5."

The UIGEA requires banks to monitor gambling transactions and enforce a ban on those transactions. Once again, in the UIGEA the gambler is not subject to prosecution for funding gambling offshore. The processors, banks, and others who aid in the system of getting your money offshore is where the illegality arises.

Sorry but you're wrong. The answer is yes. A few people have gone to court and been convicted of gambling online. In separate cases they were bookies in America who sent in lists of bets of their clients to offshore sites. One was New York City and one was upstate New York and they used different sites and had no connection to each other. No one who has bet online for only themself or a couple of friends has ever gone to court or been convicted, but technically it is illegal for Americans to bet with offshore internet sites. This is why if the Feds bust a site and a player has money with that site; the player has no legal recourse to get their money. It's illegal to knowingly send money offshore for the purpose of gambling. This is the more recent law from about 5 years; not the old wire act law. The law sucks. America is about the only country with this law. Land of the free is a joke

[lt56]

Lt56, I am not trying to be a wiseass but can you show me the Federal Statute that prohibits an individual from placing a wager?

Technically you might be right, but I don't think so. I see your point and maybe that's why the only people arrested for betting on the internet so far; from America; are bookies who send in bets offshore for other people. They'd be promoting gambling. But I still think you are wrong and that it's technically illegal due to 2006 internet law; for Americans to bet offshore. It's definitely illegal for a bank or processor to take an American's money and deposit it into an offshore gambling site. But if an American breaks no law then why is the Fed allowed to bust their site and keep their money? I think it's because the American has broken the gambling laws added to the Wire Act in 2006

[sunzal]

This guy is actually calling us idiots and making up laws? Internet gambling is absolutely no doubt about it illegal....the few arguments that some lawyers try to make about certain states having language that is too broad make a valid effort, but would never stand up in court....there is no doubt about it, none at all, that it is illegal....i will never undertstand people who know nothing about the law and have obviously never read any of the statutes yet somehow decide in their own head that it should be legal and thinks that makes it legal....i would love to ask this guy if he ever looked anything up or did he just decide that his logic must be right....just because it's a dumb law doesn't mean it's not law....in fact there are both federal andstate statutes being violated...that being said that Miami loss tonight is just painful

[RudyRuetigger]

I would be interested in these case facts and to know what the charges were. I doubt it was just gambling. Most people here are just gamblers with no other issues.

Al Capone was charged on tax evasion but they were after him for other reasons. They could have cared less about the taxes, they really wanted him on the others but they settled for taxes.

This guy appears on some SBR vids:

http://www.gamblingandthelaw.com/columns/44-161bustedonlinebet.html

[sunzal]

And just because the government has decided not to prosecute doesn't mean it's not a law....it may very well be true that no gamblers have been prosecuted for gambling online, but that is a DOJ decision...they don't make the laws, they enforce them

[Ice House]

vote for Ron Paul. He will legalize it.

[jackpot269]

Your right but your also wrong

Yes as long as you pay your taxes on winnings and are of legal age you are doing nothing wrong. However nobody here including you bothers to pay taxes on winnings, there might be a couple who do but the vast majority dont, therefore online gambling to most here is illegal

Tax is a non issue for me cause I never win !!!!!!!!!!!!

[cyberinvestor]

Technically you might be right, but I don't think so. I see your point and maybe that's why the only people arrested for betting on the internet so far; from America; are bookies who send in bets offshore for other people. They'd be promoting gambling. But I still think you are wrong and that it's technically illegal due to 2006 internet law; for Americans to bet offshore. It's definitely illegal for a bank or processor to take an American's money and deposit it into an offshore gambling site. But if an American breaks no law then why is the Fed allowed to bust their site and keep their money? I think it's because the American has broken the gambling laws added to the Wire Act in 2006

Here is the thing...you are guessing and I am not. I am pulling the actual laws and responses from the Justice Department and Supreme Court. I have spoken to lawyers on this very topic. Unless you are actually going to read the Wire Act or the UIGEA I do not think you should respond as an expert or act as though you know something.

I am not trying to be rude but frankly you are giving people bad information. Being a gambler and being a bookmaker or casino are two separate things. There are hundreds of laws and statutes about being an unlicensed bookmaker on the Federal level. There is no law on the Federal level that prohibits a gambler. Plain and simple...

[cyberinvestor]

And just because the government has decided not to prosecute doesn't mean it's not a law....it may very well be true that no gamblers have been prosecuted for gambling online, but that is a DOJ decision...they don't make the laws, they enforce them

On the Wire Act...Congressman Emanuel Celler, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee stated "[t]his bill only gets after the bookmaker, the gambler who makes it his business to take bets or to lay off bets. . . It does not go after the causal gambler who bets $2 on a race.

Doesn't get much clearer on the purpose of the law. Celler by the way was Chairman of the House Judiciary when this bill went through his committee.

This guy is actually calling us idiots and making up laws? Internet gambling is absolutely no doubt about it illegal....the few arguments that some lawyers try to make about certain states having language that is too broad make a valid effort, but would never stand up in court....there is no doubt about it, none at all, that it is illegal....i will never undertstand people who know nothing about the law and have obviously never read any of the statutes yet somehow decide in their own head that it should be legal and thinks that makes it legal....i would love to ask this guy if he ever looked anything up or did he just decide that his logic must be right....just because it's a dumb law doesn't mean it's not law....in fact there are both federal andstate statutes being violated...that being said that Miami loss tonight is just painful

Since you are responding as an obvious expert on this topic, please cite the statutes, Justice Department, Congress, or Supreme Court comments as I have. Just because you say you are an expert doesn't make you on. Back up your opinion with the actual laws.

I am waiting for someone to provide me a Federal statute that makes it illegal to be a GAMBLER offshore. YOU WILL NOT FIND IT.

The Wire Act and UIGEA make it illegal to take wagers over the phone and take money from US gamblers. The illegality of offshore gambling resides with the bookmaker and not with the gambler. The gambler betting offshore is doing nothing illegal under the law. The bookmaker is!

Nobody is saying the "business" of offshore gambling is legal. It is clearly illegal under both the Wire Act and UIGEA. The act of being a GAMBLER is not illegal on the Federal level and that is what I am arguing.

[pdprodigy]

It is not illegal but placing your bets is not explicitly legal either. Basically if you go to bookmaker.EU you are getting paid by a bunch of crooks. You're best bet is to just use SBR because they don't involve cash prizes at all. ideally you go to Nevada and pay your taxes.

[747planes]

Agree, paying taxes on winnings is for pussies.

Paying taxes on winning is for WINNERS. Most on sbr doesn't have to worry about that.....

[Big Bear]

Your right but your also wrong

Yes as long as you pay your taxes on winnings and are of legal age you are doing nothing wrong. However nobody here including you bothers to pay taxes on winnings, there might be a couple who do but the vast majority dont, therefore online gambling to most here is illegal

true but thats b/c almost 0% of us win long term.

[AchillesTG]

This is from the Texas District Attorney's Office:

At the end of the day, gambling cases, while exciting, are not as easy to prosecute as they may initially seem. Prosecutors must overcome defendants’ technology and creativity using a somewhat archaic and, at times, unhelpful Penal Code statute. Further, juries may be less than enthusiastic about convicting a gambler, when in their minds, no one was injured and no victims were involved.

My Opinion is that the real problem is the IRS. If you end up winning $20K or so, the IRS can come after you viciously! Call me paranoid, but I would never post an actual ticket in a public forum.

By posting your winning tickets, you just admitted to income tax evasion on a Public Forum and provided the proof they need to prosecute you!

[LordVodka]

The one thing I've always been afraid of is the US making up some law that says we are funding criminals by depositing in these books.

[Hareeba!]

This is from the Texas District Attorney's Office:

At the end of the day, gambling cases, while exciting, are not as easy to prosecute as they may initially seem. Prosecutors must overcome defendants’ technology and creativity using a somewhat archaic and, at times, unhelpful Penal Code statute. Further, juries may be less than enthusiastic about convicting a gambler, when in their minds, no one was injured and no victims were involved.

My Opinion is that the real problem is the IRS. If you end up winning $20K or so, the IRS can come after you viciously! Call me paranoid, but I would never post an actual ticket in a public forum.

By posting your winning tickets, you just admitted to income tax evasion on a Public Forum and provided the proof they need to prosecute you!

So does Texas actually have a law making it illegal for a punter to place a bet?