The Economy is Crashing Because of Bush

[daggerkobe]

who said it was your or my fault? It was Bush's fault for not putting a stop to it because he was enjoying bragging about how many new homeowners were owning homes. Political fodder for Dumbya. Now he's trying to crackdown when its already too late.

[element1286]

who said it was your or my fault? It was Bush's fault for not putting a stop to it because he was enjoying bragging about how many new homeowners were owning homes. Political fodder for Dumbya. Now he's trying to crackdown when its already too late.

Predatory lending, probably not. Bad business by the lender and the borrower is most likely. Giving out bad loans hurts both the lender and the borrower. I just think people don't actually believe that they might not be able to pay a loan off. And the lenders were happy to give them out assuming everyone was going to pay them off. It's a problem yes, but a problem created by president Bush no. What is he supposed to do? There is no reason for the government to do anything. People are just going to have to ride it out.

[daggerkobe]

all those subprime lenders didn't pop up by accident. They came about due to the boom in the real estate. The reason the government needed to step in was that many of these lenders practiced illegal and predatory lending practices. Many people who could qualify for prime loans were fooled and tricked into signing for subprime.

If these people deserved it as u seem to think then why is Bush getting involved at all????

[oddsmaker]

To blame Bush for all of the problems this country is currently facing is niave. As a conservative I'll admit I'm not happy with all of the decisions President Bush has made during his 8 years of presidency.

One could argue that many of the problems we faced today are due to Congress' love to spend tax dollars without any accountability; however, you can't ignore the Democrats too, as well as Republicans.

Weak Dollar- Many people believe a week greenback is a good thing. It makes products cheaper for oversea buyers; however, it drives investors to hedge against inflation with commodities like oil, gold, and other natural resources that have a 3 month, 6 month, 1 year, 3 year capitol gain.

Oil- Oil has skyrocketed in the past 6 years: oil speculators, weak dollar, and supply and demand. Did I mention the lack of congressional support for drilling and oil exploration? You liberal/democrates blame the high oil prices on Bush but you ignore the basic law of supply and demand. President Clinton shot down ANWAR which could currently be fueling our thirst right now for sweet light crude oil for gasoline and diesel engines.

Green Mentality- Many people don't understand that republicans and conservatives do not want to rid the world with black soot and sticky oil, but instead we want the ability to explore our natural resources while keeping it as safe as possible.

I honestly believe this whole "green" fade will be just that. It's choking our companies, wallets, and oil thirst.

Nuclear Energy- Do you realize that even France uses nuclear energy? Or Brazil is energy independent? We need to build nuclear powerplants and stop letting the minority opinion control and rule the majority; I'm not suggesting more than 50 percent of the US Population wants nuclear powerplants but what I am suggesting is that the next time you fill up your car, get your electric bill, or purchase high food products due to corn prices think of the tree huggers, envirornmentalists, and democtrats... Afterall they want high oil prices... just not this fast.. lol

http://www.youtube.com/v/AJLdHfIBnr0&hl=en

[element1286]

all those subprime lenders didn't pop up by accident. They came about due to the boom in the real estate. The reason the government needed to step in was that many of these lenders practiced illegal and predatory lending practices. Many people who could qualify for prime loans were fooled and tricked into signing for subprime.

If these people deserved it as u seem to think then why is Bush getting involved at all????

I am just saying that I don't think people who tricked into signing bad loans by companies because the lenders lose money when a loan is not re payed. I just don't buy the fact that this is the cause of predatory lending, but it is the cause of bad business. I think he is getting involved because it looks good to go after "predatory lenders." Politicians cannot be confused with economists by any means.

[element1286]

Oddsmaker I couldn't agree more.

I would like to add that I support any type of plan that will help the United States become energy independent. Whether it be a combination of drilling, wind/solar, bio fuels (which doesn't seem to be a good investment so far), coal to oil, and nuclear, I support it if it will help with energy costs. Everyone knows that we have to transition from oil to another fuel, but for the here and now drilling is the best option.

[oddsmaker]

Oddsmaker I couldn't agree more.

I would like to add that I support any type of plan that will help the United States become energy independent. Whether it be a combination of drilling, wind/solar, bio fuels (which doesn't seem to be a good investment so far), coal to oil, and nuclear, I support it if it will help with energy costs. Everyone knows that we have to transition from oil to another fuel, but for the here and now drilling is the best option.

People don't understand that. It's a simple law: Supply and Demand. People argue the oil companies have tons of land to drill; however, land without any oil underneath it doesn't bare fruit does it?

We need to provide more supply for demand while researchers continue to find a better alternative source of energy.

[element1286]

People don't understand that. It's a simple law: Supply and Demand. People argue the oil companies have tons of land to drill; however, land without any oil underneath it doesn't bare fruit does it?

We need to provide more supply for demand while researchers continue to find a better alternative source of energy.

Exactly. We also need more people in high-ranking government positions that actually understand how the economy works.

[daggerkobe]

You don't seem to get it. Tricking people into signing bad loans is a crime. For example several auto dealerships in my area were shut down during busy weekends and employees arrested and charged for scamming borrowers. So why shouldn't home lenders that do the same thing be treated the same?

Secondly who says these subprime lenders went into business to fail? There are many successful subprime lenders in credit cards, auto loans and home. High risk = high rewards. If they knew their businesses would fail due to the real estate bust and high energy prices why would they go in to a high risk business in the first place? That is beyond ridiculous.

[daggerkobe]

There is no shortage of oil that's silly. If demand is truly high why is OPEC shutting down production? Why aren't oil prices doubling and tripling elsewhere such as Europe? Don't they use gas too???? And why is oil 15 cents a gallon in Venezuela??????????

[element1286]

You don't seem to get it. Tricking people into signing bad loans is a crime. For example several auto dealerships in my area were shut down during busy weekends and employees arrested and charged for scamming borrowers. So why shouldn't home lenders that do the same thing be treated the same?

Secondly who says these subprime lenders went into business to fail? There are many successful subprime lenders in credit cards, auto loans and home. High risk = high rewards. If they knew their businesses would fail due to the real estate bust and high energy prices why would they go in to a high risk business in the first place? That is beyond ridiculous.

I am saying that I don't think people were tricked into signing anything. Of course there might be some cases, but as a rule they were just loans they couldn't pay off.

And of course they didn't go into business to fail.

All I am saying is that some lenders gave out loans based on bad information, or incompetence, or a bad business model. And people took these loans not actually knowing how they work or if they could pay the loan back in the long run. I don't think it has anything to do with predatory lending.

[daggerkobe]

Again you don't seem to get it. Bad businss model or bad loan aside they were making GOOD money!!!!!!!!!! their bubble burst when the real estate market crashed not because of any bad loans or whatnot. If the bubble hadn't burst they would still be in business and raking in the $$$$$$$$$. Has nothing to do with bad loans or bad business model!!!!!!!!!

[element1286]

There is no shortage of oil that's silly. If demand is truly high why is OPEC shutting down production? Why aren't oil prices doubling and tripling elsewhere such as Europe? Don't they use gas too???? And why is oil 15 cents a gallon in Venezuela??????????

Because OPEC is a cartel, they don't use the same competition principles. They shut-down production to reduce the demand. This artificially increases prices. Europe isn't as dependent on OPEC as the United States is, and Venezuela's oil is nationalized and run by the government.

[oddsmaker]

You don't seem to get it. Tricking people into signing bad loans is a crime. For example several auto dealerships in my area were shut down during busy weekends and employees arrested and charged for scamming borrowers. So why shouldn't home lenders that do the same thing be treated the same?

Secondly who says these subprime lenders went into business to fail? There are many successful subprime lenders in credit cards, auto loans and home. High risk = high rewards. If they knew their businesses would fail due to the real estate bust and high energy prices why would they go in to a high risk business in the first place? That is beyond ridiculous.

Have you ever heard of a credit report? If I was a gambling man I bet you're afraid to even look at yours.

People need to understand something. The government actually put stress on lenders to approve loans more frivolously than before. It isn't appropriate to put all the blame on lending institutions; instead, you should share the blame on the lender and lendee.

If you are too stupid to understand a subprime mortgage then you're too stupid to even finance a home. Granted I don't like the "small print" but I'm not too stupid to read it.

Whatever happen to self responsibility? Here's the deal: know you're price range, know you're income, job stability, and buy a home in accordance to those issues.

Also, don't take this wrong, I can provide citations in a hour or so but did you know that the majoring of foreclosures are minorites?

I'm sorry but I can't even believe congress would make us educated people who are financially wise to foot the bill for some guy who grabbed an adjustable rate mortgage instead of a fixed rate for 15 or 30 years.

[element1286]

Again you don't seem to get it. Bad businss model or bad loan aside they were making GOOD money!!!!!!!!!! their bubble burst when the real estate market crashed not because of any bad loans or whatnot. If the bubble hadn't burst they would still be in business and raking in the $$$$$$$$$. Has nothing to do with bad loans or bad business model!!!!!!!!!

If companies are giving out loans that default they are bad loans. Now obviously even the best run companies will give out some bad loans, but these companies were giving out a disproportionate amount of bad ones. Bubble's burst, they knew, and if they didn't they were running a poor business. It is the lenders and the borrowers fault.

[daggerkobe]

Because OPEC is a cartel, they don't use the same competition principles. They shut-down production to reduce the demand. This artificially increases prices. Europe isn't as dependent on OPEC as the United States is, and Venezuela's oil is nationalized and run by the government.

So you admit that OPEC artifically controls oil prices by controlling oil output. Which proves that supply and demand is a hoax perpetrated by OPEC to justify high prices.

Europe as a whole uses as much oil as we do. How come their prices have virtually remained the same while ours has trippled????

So why can't we pay 15 cents a gallon, considering we own the second largest OPEC country?

[oddsmaker]

So you admit that OPEC artifically controls oil prices by controlling oil output. Which proves that supply and demand is a hoax perpetrated by OPEC to justify high prices.

Europe as a whole uses as much oil as we do. How come their prices have virtually remained the same while ours has trippled????

So why can't we pay 15 cents a gallon, considering we own the second largest OPEC country?

You know I just realized something. Why don't you suggest a way to fix the issue of high petrol prices? Please? Or is that not in your liberal handbook you got for free with your 5 dollar contribution to Barack Obama 08' with your mothers credit card?

[element1286]

So you admit that OPEC artifically controls oil prices by controlling oil output. Which proves that supply and demand is a hoax perpetrated by OPEC to justify high prices.

Europe as a whole uses as much oil as we do. How come their prices have virtually remained the same while ours has trippled????

So why can't we pay 15 cents a gallon, considering we own the second largest OPEC country?

Yes, of course OPEC artificially controls prices that is what cartels do.

I think the oil prices in Europe have to do with lowering value of the dollar vs the Euro. OPEC uses the dollar to trade, so a raise in oil prices in dollars doesn't effect the European market which uses Euros.

We can't pay 15 cents per gallon, unless you want to live in a fascist state.

[daggerkobe]

so if the bubble burst it's all their fault? So if a transportation company goes bankrupt because gas prices triple its their fault? What about restaurants if fish and meat prices quadruple and they go out of business its their fault?

I'm all for self responsibilty but when an idiot in office creates an atmosphere that is ripe to cause you to fail how is that 100% on u?

[element1286]

so if the bubble burst it's all their fault? So if a transportation company goes bankrupt because gas prices triple its their fault? What about restaurants if fish and meat prices quadruple and they go out of business its their fault?

I'm all for self responsibilty but when an idiot in office creates an atmosphere that is ripe to cause you to fail how is that 100% on u?

The bubble was a creation of the industry.

[oddsmaker]

[oddsmaker]

I know those a tad old but if you flip one of the graphs and overlay it you will notice a trend the the us dollar and oil prices..

[daggerkobe]

You know I just realized something. Why don't you suggest a way to fix the issue of high petrol prices? Please? Or is that not in your liberal handbook you got for free with your 5 dollar contribution to Barack Obama 08' with your mothers credit card?

I wish I knew then I'd be a rich man. Other than driving electric and fuel cell cars I don't see a way. Bush and his OPEC cronies made sure of that.

Hey at least I don't get my news from that drug addict Rush Limbaugh. That alone makes me smarter.

[daggerkobe]

The bubble was a creation of the industry.

recession, high energy prices and predatory subprime lenders had more to do with it.

[daggerkobe]

Yes, of course OPEC artificially controls prices that is what cartels do.

I think the oil prices in Europe have to do with lowering value of the dollar vs the Euro. OPEC uses the dollar to trade, so a raise in oil prices in dollars doesn't effect the European market which uses Euros.

We can't pay 15 cents per gallon, unless you want to live in a fascist state.

How I you explain cheaper oil prices in Asia and South America then? Do they use Euros too?

I didn't know Kuwait was a fascist state.

[guitarjosh]

guitarjosh is rambling on and on about nonsense alright.

All his claims have been destroyed by facts and history he is clueless about.

Claims no company could do what Halliburton could in Iraq. Yet Halliburton subcontracted all their work to other qualifed competitors.

Claims Clinton did nothing to kill Osama when in fact he did. It was the republicans who were against killing Osama.

Claims the recession was Clinton's fault when he led the country through 8 years of economic prosperity. The recession began 3 months into Bush's presidency and not 6 weeks he claims. Why didnt he implement economic stimulus package then? Instead his policies led to widespread layoffs for two years!!!!!!

Claims other presidents were worse yet none of the examples he's given comes close to the incompetence of Bush.

Claims Bush couldn't stop 9-11 due to "red tape". More like laziness and incompetence. Please cite the law which says the president can't highten security. You can't because its all in your fantasy.

Really? Let's see: You made a claim that we were in a recession in 2003. In reality, we had our best economic growth in 20 years in 2003.

You made a claim that in 2002 I couldn't pay a 1.59 for a gallon of gas. Yet in April of 2002 gas prices were around 1.50 a gallon.

You're so upset with Haliburton getting a no bid contract, yet you aren't angry at all about Clinton giving no bids to them in 1998.

I never claimed Clinton did nothing to kill Osama, but that he didn't do enough. His constant lobing of cruise missles emboldened AQ into thinking that is all we would do to retaliate.

If you can't see economic problems coming when the economy slows from over 5% to less then 1% in 6 months, the NASDAQ loses 65% of it's value and the Dow loses 25% of its value, you're blind. None of Bush's polices were implemented long enough to cause a recession.

I've given you plenty of examples of past presidents that did equal worse things then Bush. Clinton giving no bid contracts to Haliburton. Bush lied us into war? How about FDR picking a fight with Japan and lying us into a war that cost us more in the first 3 months then Iraq has in 5 years. Gitmo and a few dozen AQ member being locked up there with no charges and no court dates? How about FDR locking up about 100,000 Japanese Americans with no charges and no due process in WW2? Bush is a war criminal? FDR had a thing called “terror bombing”, which was targeting civilian population centers by our bombers, a serious war crime. Bush doesn't respect the Constitution? FDR's response after the Supreme Court handed down rulings he didn't like was to try to pack it with yes-men who would do what he wanted, unconstitutional or not. Bush never did anything like that. Bush didn't stop 9-11? FDR didn't stop Pearl Harbor even though he told his colleagues he new they would attack us and he could have stopped it. You're the one making the asinine claim Bush is the worst ever yet you admit you don't care what FDR did. He was much worse then Bush. Learn your history and you might stop making such ridiculous claims.

[guitarjosh]

GuitarJosh could have a future at Fixed News....uhhh....I mean Fox News

Why is that? I didn't vote for Bush the second time, I'm against the Iraq war, the Patriot act, and a lot of other things he has done. But I don't believe he is the worst president ever, I believe that is a very stupid claim.

[guitarjosh]

I'm actually appalled that someone would actually attempt to defend and honestly agree with the policies of this president. Not even his former staffers would stand by his side as avidly. In fact, many of them have been extremely critical of this administration. I think that should tell you something. I would imagine that you also don't "believe" in man's contribution to global warming either, guitarjosh. It really speaks volumes when you say that everything was done before Bush entered office. This little war we have going on might have a slight impact on the state of our affairs and our economy. Yeah, yeah Dems voted for it too but certainly not under dubious intelligence manufactured from this administration. The subsequent financial windfall of incurring massive debt in a war that "will pay for itself with oil revenues," the dismantling of our civil liberties, habeus corpus, and the Bill of Rights, and the use of executive priviledge at every corner to evade checks and balances from both the legislative and judicial branches were all remnants of Clinton policy as well I would suppose.

When have I defended his policies? I have been critical of his policies. Again, I'm against the war, the Patriot act, I think going ofer to Iraq in 1990 was stupid, I think training Bil Ladin in 1985 was a mistake. The economy was tanking when Bush took office, there isn't a debate on that one. Your last point starting with the,"financial windfall" I agree with.

The problem I have is with these people who run around screaming that Bush is the worst ever when reading about our history with an open mind would change their mind. He isn't the worst ever.

[MBENZ]

Predatory lending, probably not. Bad business by the lender and the borrower is most likely. Giving out bad loans hurts both the lender and the borrower. I just think people don't actually believe that they might not be able to pay a loan off. And the lenders were happy to give them out assuming everyone was going to pay them off. It's a problem yes, but a problem created by president Bush no. What is he supposed to do? There is no reason for the government to do anything. People are just going to have to ride it out.

This is without a doubt the most spot on post in this thread,tells it like it is.From a developer standpoint,I saw this shit firsthand and just shook my head.

[TeamPlayer]

Oddsmaker,

How is Barack Obama an elitist when he grew up poor without a father and a mother who dedicated her life to working for non-profit organizations in small villages in Africa and South East Asia? Are you kidding me? If Obama is an elitist, then most Americans are snobby aristocrats because they grew up with more money than him.

Is Obama an elitist because he studied hard and earned scholarships to the best university and Law School? What is your point?......that we should all stop learning and be the stereotypical stupid American that the world sees us as being??

Or should we all be like Dumbya and piss away daddy's money being a cocaine addict and alcoholic and not learning how to speak english beyond a 3rd grade level?

[MonkeyF0cker]

When have I defended his policies? I have been critical of his policies. Again, I'm against the war, the Patriot act, I think going ofer to Iraq in 1990 was stupid, I think training Bil Ladin in 1985 was a mistake. The economy was tanking when Bush took office, there isn't a debate on that one. Your last point starting with the,"financial windfall" I agree with.

The problem I have is with these people who run around screaming that Bush is the worst ever when reading about our history with an open mind would change their mind. He isn't the worst ever.

Well that is certainly debatable. In my opinion, he's by far the worst in my lifetime. And I surely couldn't name 5 others who were worse in our history. The thing you keep doing is comparing decisions that Bush made to those of past presidents. While other presidents may have made somewhat similar decisions, not only were their circumstances different, but you are comparing collective mistakes of multiple presidencies to those of a single administration. There is not much this president has done right. And we will continue to pay for it for years to come.

[guitarjosh]

Well that is certainly debatable. In my opinion, he's by far the worst in my lifetime. And I surely couldn't name 5 others who were worse in our history. The thing you keep doing is comparing decisions that Bush made to those of past presidents. While other presidents may have made somewhat similar decisions, not only were their circumstances different, but you are comparing collective mistakes of multiple presidencies to those of a single administration. There is not much this president has done right. And we will continue to pay for it for years to come.

The economy didn't start to decline on Jan 20 2001, it started in March of 2000. While the recession did begin on Bush's watch, the economy was showing a lot of signs of getting weaker before he took office.

How old are you? I was born under Carter, so I would say he was the worst president in my life time.

The reason I'm comparing Bush to other presidents is because I'm trying to show people that he isn't the worst president ever. How else can you make that claim? Most of the things I've brought up were done by FDR, although I still don't know why people are outraged by Bush giving Haliburton a no bid deal but don't care when Clinton did the same.

IMO the worst president we've ever had was James Buchanan. Say what you want about Bush, he didn't sit on his hands while half the country seceded, causing the bloodiest war in the history of the Western Hemisphere.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Yeah the economy showed weakness and despite multiple warnings from Alan Greenspan calling for federal fiscal responsibility, Bush went on a record spending frenzy further tanking our economy. Carter may have been a boon to the economy but not nearly as much as Bush has been. However, Carter wasn't actively trying to eliminate citizen's rights, strengthen the executive branch in an attempt to give the President almost tyranical powers, nor did he send us into a confounding war with an exorbitantly high price tag with no real option for extraction. FDR's circumstances were nothing close to Bush's. Japan, a sovereign nation, blatantly attacked us. Bush manufactured evidence to invoke a pre-emptive war with a country which had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks. Not to mention, our involvement in WWII was inevitable to begin with. They are not comparable.

[Panic]

Whats laughable is Democrats thinking the downfall started here, in the Bush administration. The Democrats started this ball rolling many years ago. Now they want to blame the Republicans for the mess we're in. LOLOL. What a joke.

[element1286]

I'm not big on blaming people for past decisions. Iraq war, energy independence, housing crisis, etc. There were mistakes made in the past by all presidents, Bush made some very big ones.

But lets look ahead, McCain and Obama both have no plans to fix any of the major problems presented to the United States today. Obama talks a big game about how he is going to provide universal Health-Care, but it is never going to pass there is just no money. Obama likes to talk about pulling out of Iraq within X amount of days after he is in office, but is that really the right policy? He doesn't have very much information about the war. Obama likes to talk about cutting taxes for the middle income and raising them for the higher income, but how about getting spending under control and lower taxes for everyone. He likes to talk about producing more fuel efficient cars, and trying to find a new energy source.
But what about the prices now?

McCain wants to stay in Iraq until the job is done. Is this the right policy? McCain has no solution to the energy crisis, he wants to drill in the continental shelf, but why not ANWAR? McCain supports cap-and-trade, this is the worst idea know to man (Obama also supports it). Neither candidate says anything about the reduced value of the dollar.

Overall, mistakes have been made in the past that led to these issues by many previous presidents. But the worst part about it is, neither candidate has any clue how to fix them. They are just doing the usual pandering to special interest groups, and ignoring the common good of most of the country.