Originally posted by MonkeyF0cker
-
I know a lot of arguments that show his policies made the Depression last longer.Comment -
I accidentially tuned in to a conservative radio program and was shocked by what I heard.
The host actually claimed that if Obama was elected president, he would make Al Sharpton his Secretary of State and Jesse Jackson his Secretary of Defense. The guy was obviously a neo-nitwit as were all his callers.
I don't remember his name but he was promoting his book entitled "Bush: Greatest President of all time"...... crazy.Comment -
I'd love to hear them. I'm sure they aren't politically motivated in any way. FDR's first New Deal only helped cut unemployment by 66% or something like that in his first term. What horrible policy...Originally posted by element1286Comment -
Two economists from UCLA wrote that he prolonged the depression by 7 years. This is an article summing up the main points.Comment -
Yes but my problem is how you relate this to the depreciation of the dollar.2.) American roads and bridges are indeed in disrepair. This is fact. I don't know what else to say. Contact your local state transportation agency or look for quotes in the newspapers about the condition of the bridges in you state. It's nation wide.
3.) Today, Oil prices surged because Libya announced it will cut back oil production. This is fact in all of the news today. Why does Libya want to stick it to us? Because the Bush administration is so stupid that they will screw all of the american people in order to act tough against Libya and sue them for something that happened 20 years ago! This follows the Bush and Neo-Con mentality of aggressive fascist tendencies at the risk of economic ruinComment -
Pretty funny that they say he was anti-competition while he was trying to eliminate monopolistic entities and strengthen labor unions. This is as speculative as it can possibly get.Comment -
I'm not a supporter of Bush or McCain. I do have a problem when people are outraged by something Bush did but have no problem when a past president did the exact same thing.Originally posted by daggerkobeComment -
Originally posted by daggerkobe
Don't be so sure. In fact, i think many of the neocon radio hosts are praying hard for an Obama victory so that they can complain and rile up their base. If they were real conservatives they'd be criticizing GWB left and right all day. George Bush is nothing but a walking and talking corporation.....Comment -
I guess you've never read a history book
You mean there were other presidents with under 20% approval ratings?
The only way he could have stopped it was to pass things like the Patriot act, something that would have never happened before 9-11
You mean all those urgent presidential memos entitled "Al Qaeda plans to hijack planes" months prior to 9/11 weren't specific enough to move on?
Yeah, I'm sure China and India, no new refineries, speculators, etc had nothing to do with it.
In 2001? It had EVERYTHING to do with it. No single act up to that point had ever doubled the price of barrel of oil other than the oil embargo.
Funny, I never heard anyone complain about Haliburton getting no bid contracts back in 1998-2000
When Haliburton's competitors tried to submit bids 4 MONTHS prior to the Iraqi invasion and were turned away with assurances that there would be no invasion..... then Haliburton is awarded a no-bid contract worth BILLIONS... yeah, there's something suspicious about that.
FDR had over 20,000 dead in the first few months after Pearl Harbor, which could have been avoided. He wanted war with Japan. But, no one cares about that.
Proof? Cite the presidental notes which warned him of the impending attacks and proof that he ignored it and did nothing like Bush on 9/11.
A recession is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have had 1 under Bush, and it started 6 weeks after he became president. That one is on Clinton.
Recession began April, 2001, which is 3 months after he became president. And if you don't know we're in a recession right now, then you must be living in a cave.
That is due to the Fed, something that should be done away with
No, it's due to the trillions wasted on a personal war.
There is nothing wrong with record profits. Secondly, there is a difference between profit and profit margin. By the way, the gov't makes more profit from gas then the oil companies do
Record profits at the expense of economic growth and citizen's livelihood? You sound like a typical neocon.Comment -
You mean there were other presidents with under 20% approval ratings?
What do approval ratings have to do about it? Nothing. James Buchanan sat back and did nothing as the country became more and more divided, and did nothing when the South left America after Lincoln won in 1860.
You mean all those urgent presidential memos entitled "Al Qaeda plans to hijack planes" months prior to 9/11 weren't specific enough to move on?
And he is going to know who plans on hijacking the planes by? He couldn't without a massive amount of surveillance
In 2001? It had EVERYTHING to do with it. No single act up to that point had ever doubled the price of barrel of oil other than the oil embargo.
Gas prices were under $2.00 back in 2002 and 2003. The first real spike happened in 2000. I remember being appalled that I had to pay $1.67 a gallon, the highest I can remember paying
When Haliburton's competitors tried to submit bids 4 MONTHS prior to the Iraqi invasion and were turned away with assurances that there would be no invasion..... then Haliburton is awarded a no-bid contract worth BILLIONS... yeah, there's something suspicious about that.
How many companies could handle a job that size back in 2003? 1, Schlemburger, owned and opperated by the French Gov't. They neither had the equipment ready to go nor the security clearences, which Haliburton got during the CLinton years. Again, why no outrage in 1998?
Proof? Cite the presidental notes which warned him of the impending attacks and proof that he ignored it and did nothing like Bush on 9/11.
How about the McCollum memo, an 8 point plan to provoke a war with Japan. One of them, cutting off Japan's oil, led Richmond Turner to tell FDR that what he did was an act of war.
Frank Knox was the Navy Secretary in 1941. When he visited FDR to tell him of the devistation of the Pearl Harbor attack, the President told Secretary Knox that "he expected to get hit but not hurt". Now why in the world would he expect the Japaneese to "hit" us?
Recession began April, 2001, which is 3 months after he became president. And if you don't know we're in a recession right now, then you must be living in a cave.
Fine, 6 weeks, 10, whatever. The point is that the 2001 recession isn't the fault of Bush. His policies weren't fully implemented and didn't have time to change anything. The Nasdaq lost about 65% of its value between March of 2000 and November 2000. The recession was on Clinton
No, it's due to the trillions wasted on a personal war.
The Fed keeps pumping out more money
Record profits at the expense of economic growth and citizen's livelihood? You sound like a typical neocon.
That's the free market. Again, there is a difference between profit and profit margin. Out of every dollar oil companies profit, the keep about 10 cents.Comment -
What do approval ratings have to do with anything? Uh, everything? Politicians check their approval ratings like they check their horoscopes. Many even shape their policies around it. Why wouldnt they..... their politcal careers are dependent on how many votes they get. So why wouldnt the opinions of those who lived under the leadership and policies of the president not be important in determining their legacy? Its politics 101.
The FBI had the names of all the hijackers on file. Even the field agents were begging their superiors to put surveillance on them but were rebuffed. All Bush had to do was have a face to face meeting with his anti-terrorism expert and he would have got all the necessary information to stop it. He could have warned the airliners and they would have stepped up security, banned all sharp objects, fortifed cockpit doors and maybe even put airmarshalls on board. But he did nothing but play hide and seek with his anti-terrorism expert.Comment -
Avg gas prices in 2000 were $1.10. Where were u supposedy paying 50 cents more than everyone else?
In 2002 we were already over $2. Over $2.50 by 2003.
And what were the reasons Boots and Coots International couldn't handle the job in Iraq? Wild Well Control Inc? GSM Consulting? None whatsoever. Considering Boots and Wild were later subcontracted by Halliburton to do the very job they were supposedly not qualifed to do. The insult to injury was that not only did they do a good job, they would have done the job for 70% less than what Cheney's company got. How's that for fraud?Comment -
The fact that the recession began a full month after your claim is significant. A lot can happen in a month. But then again we were still in the thick of a recession in 2003, which shows how effective his polices were.
Oil companies profits are actually closer to 12% Highest amongst other industries. Hey why don't milk, beer, bread companies double and triple their prices. I mean profit is great and that's what the free market is all about right? Greed and price gouging go hand in hand with free economy, right?Comment -
Bush couldn't have gone through all the red tape to ban sharp objects, make the cockpit doors tougher, and put air marshalls the planes. He would have had to make those changes in a month or 2.Originally posted by daggerkobe
Again, why are you so mad at Bush for this and not FDR for Pearl Harbor? He told his Naval Secretary that he new Japan would attack. He told Admiral Hart, commander of the recently sunk Asiatic Fleet that if he knew the damage the Japanese Navy would have done to ours, he "would have stalled them for another year". Think about that. He knew an attack was coming, and he could have avoided it. What would your response be if Bush said after 9-11,"I knew they would hit us but not hurt us. If I knew how bad they would hurt us, I would have stalled them for another year".
The sad thing is that if FDR would have accepted Japan's offer of a 90 day cooling off period and stalled, we probably could have avoided any involvement in WW2. Which is worse:Iraq and 9-11, or all the American lives lost in WW2?Comment -
What red tape??????? Those very security measures were instituted days after 9-11!!!!!!!!!!!!
I couldn't care less about FDR. First, I wasn't even born then. Second you're just trying to deflect attention from the incompetence of Bush. He's the one who got the warning for 8 full months and did NOTHING!!!!!!!! He wouldnt even meet with his anti-terrorism expert until a day after 9-11.
Bush is the worst president in history and no one will ever come close in incompetence and stupidity.Comment -
Funny, I remember paying $1.59 for gas back in 2002.Originally posted by daggerkobe
I already told you, they weren't big enough to do a job that size. You tell me, why couldn't those companies do the job in Kosovo and Bosnia?
First of all, you couldn't be more wrong about 2003. The economy was out of a recession in late 2001. In 2003, the economy had it's best quarter in 20 years, growing at 7.2%. Again, the NASDAQ lost 65% of its value from March 2000 to Nov 2000. If you can't see economic problems in that, you're blind.Originally posted by daggerkobe
The profit margin of oil companies has gone down since the prices spiked. Yes, makers of other products can raise their prices, as long as there is no collusion. Do you know what happened the last time the gov't put price caps on gas? we had looooooooong lines at the pump. You were lucky if you could fill up. That's mommy gov't for you.Comment -
Yeah, it is a little easier to get that stuff passed after 9-11. Views change when things like that happen. Remember all the gun control hype in the 1990's as a result of school shootings? Those don't happen as often now, and as a result the cry for more guncontrol has waned.Originally posted by daggerkobe
Why didn't Clinton get that passed? Or was 9-11 dreamed up on 12-12-2000? Bil Laden said that America was a paper tiger, afraid to accept troop losses. Perhaps if Clinton would have done more then fire cruise missles after each AQ attack, they wouldn't have become so emboldened to go through with 9-11.
Maybe you should learn your history. If you did, you would see that the things that Bush did that you claim make him the worst president in history (an incredibly ignorant statement) were done many times over by presidents before him! This isn't about Bush policies, it is about the fact the left is still bitter about Florida.
Again, read a history book. Look at the way Buchanan allowed the country do fall apart while he did nothing. Look at how FDR lied and provoked us into a war we didn't need to be in. Look at how he violated civil rights of American citizens. Look at how he tried to fill the courts with a bunch of yes-men so he could destroy our Constitution. Everything you hate about Bush, someone before him did moreso.
I'm not trying to deflect from the incompetence of Bush. I'm trying to point out that many of our presidents have been more incompetent or more crafty, but no one cared. Again, that has more to do with Florida then his policies.Comment -
so u were the only person in the US paying 60 cents more than everyone in 2000 but 50 cents less than everyone in 2002? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Must be that false selective memory everyone's talking about.
Boots and Coots and Wild Well couldn't handle the job in Iraq yet Halliburton hired them to do the job? Huh????????? Are u even reading what I'm writing or just making sh1t up as u go along?
NASDAQ was at record highs thanks to Internet stocks. After the bubble burst it came down to realistic levels. Yet the economy kept growing until April 2001, three months after Bush took over.
Profit margin of oil companies went down? How do u figure?Comment -
What red tape are u talking about??????? You mean the imaginary ones along with your fake gas prices???? What red tape did Clinton go through to increase security that resulted in the capture of the LAX bomber????
Clinton did nothing? He actually tried to kill him numerous times. But then the republicans kept screaming wag the dog and accusing him of trying to divert attention away from the blowjob. Blame yourselves for allowing Osama to live. Not to mention Reagan for training and funding his terrorist activities. And Bush Sr for angering him by sending US troops to Saudi Arabia which is why he declared jihad on the US.
Who cares what previous presidents did? Nothing compares to the incompetence of Dumbya.Comment -
Gas prices spiked up in 2000, when I paid 1.67. It came down later but would spike up at certain times during the year, which is what you're talking about. Maybe the selective memory is your claim that the economy was in a recession in 2003 when it had its best growth since the early 1980s.Originally posted by daggerkobe
Are you reading what I'm writing? YES, they couldn't do the full job in 2003. Why didn't Clinton hire them in 1998 again? Or are you just going to dodge that?
The economy dropped from over 5% in the summer of 2000 to around 1% in the fall and winter of 2000. If you're happy to live with 1% growth, okay, but a 4% drop in growth coupled with a huge drop in the stock markets (about 25% in the DJI) was a sign of a slowing economy.
He can't get all sharp objects like pocket knives & box cutters banned that quickley. He can't get cockpit doors made stronger that quickley. In the summer of 2001, the big story was shark attacks at beaches. There would be no political will to make those changes at airports then. Again, was there none of these warnings in 2000? I mean real ones like the economy growing at 7.2% in 2003. We actually had good security in the early 1990s because of the 1st war in Iraq, but those were relaxed in the mid 1990s.Originally posted by daggerkobe
He tried to kill OBL with missle strikes. Perhaps if he would have put troops on the ground we could have avoided 9-11. Actually I agree with you on Reagan and 41.
See, that's the difference between the 2 of us. I have an understanding of history. You can call W the worst ever all you want but it doesn't change the facts. Virtually everything you don't like about W was done before him, and what was done was much worse then what he did.Comment -
I'm actually appalled that someone would actually attempt to defend and honestly agree with the policies of this president. Not even his former staffers would stand by his side as avidly. In fact, many of them have been extremely critical of this administration. I think that should tell you something. I would imagine that you also don't "believe" in man's contribution to global warming either, guitarjosh. It really speaks volumes when you say that everything was done before Bush entered office. This little war we have going on might have a slight impact on the state of our affairs and our economy. Yeah, yeah Dems voted for it too but certainly not under dubious intelligence manufactured from this administration. The subsequent financial windfall of incurring massive debt in a war that "will pay for itself with oil revenues," the dismantling of our civil liberties, habeus corpus, and the Bill of Rights, and the use of executive priviledge at every corner to evade checks and balances from both the legislative and judicial branches were all remnants of Clinton policy as well I would suppose.Comment -
guitarjosh is rambling on and on about nonsense alright.
All his claims have been destroyed by facts and history he is clueless about.
Claims no company could do what Halliburton could in Iraq. Yet Halliburton subcontracted all their work to other qualifed competitors.
Claims Clinton did nothing to kill Osama when in fact he did. It was the republicans who were against killing Osama.
Claims the recession was Clinton's fault when he led the country through 8 years of economic prosperity. The recession began 3 months into Bush's presidency and not 6 weeks he claims. Why didnt he implement economic stimulus package then? Instead his policies led to widespread layoffs for two years!!!!!!
Claims other presidents were worse yet none of the examples he's given comes close to the incompetence of Bush.
Claims Bush couldn't stop 9-11 due to "red tape". More like laziness and incompetence. Please cite the law which says the president can't highten security. You can't because its all in your fantasy.Comment -
GuitarJosh could have a future at Fixed News....uhhh....I mean Fox NewsComment -
Moneyfocker, guitarjosh does not deal in reality obviously. All his claims have been disproven with FACTS yet he keeps rambling on and on with nonsense.
Yes, its all Clintons fault. He armed, trained and finacially backed Osama. He put troops on Saudi soil which angered Osama that he declared holy war on the US. It was Clinton's fault that he couldn't kill Osama because the republicans were too busy trying to impeach him on important matters such as a blowjob. Its also his fault that he left office with the largest surplus in history and lowest unemployment rates.
It was also Clintons fault that all those urgent presidential memos warning of exactly what would happen on 9-11 went completely ignored for 8 months.
Yes, its all Clintons fault.
Comment -
To those that have a degree and think Bush is the problem I suggest using it to wipe your as* the next time you take a sh*t... To the people who do not have a degree and think it's Bush's fault I suggest NEVER getting into economics...
Comment -
he's certainly been brainwashed well.Originally posted by TeamPlayer
Comment -
So you're saying Bush's policy of ignoring domestic terrorism, buying up all the oil from private refineries, invading an oil rich country, and wastingOriginally posted by ShamsWoof10To those that have a degree and think Bush is the problem I suggest using it to wipe your as* the next time you take a sh*t... To the people who do not have a degree and think it's Bush's fault I suggest NEVER getting into economics...
trillions on a war had no effect on our economy? This must be the new Rush Limbaugh Economy 101 ive been hearing so much about.
Comment -
What the hell is domestic terrorism..?Originally posted by daggerkobeSo you're saying Bush's policy of ignoring domestic terrorism, buying up all the oil from private refineries, invading an oil rich country, and wasting
trillions on a war had no effect on our economy? This must be the new Rush Limbaugh Economy 101 ive been hearing so much about.
Ok first of all let's look at one aspect of it... Consumer debt... THIS DID NOT START during his time... Credit expansion started in the EARLY 90's when loans became easier to get and credit cards were pushed on EVERY COLLEGE CAMPUS in America... Have you ever asked yourself why..????
A... This economy was/is preset to GRADUALLY DECLINE..
B... What the hell makes you think Bush has the ability to do anything including dress himself..?
C... Explain to me how it's GW's fault that people got into debt and made very bad decisions in the housing market..? I know there is more to the economy but let's start with ONE aspect here...
D... You are making one FALSE assumption if you think they would have used the Iraq War money for good domestic use...
Comment -
Originally posted by daggerkobeSo you're saying Bush's policy of ignoring domestic terrorism, buying up all the oil from private refineries, invading an oil rich country, and wasting
trillions on a war had no effect on our economy? This must be the new Rush Limbaugh Economy 101 ive been hearing so much about.
Anyone who watches Fixed News should be the last person to talk about economics.
Fixed News' latest ploy is hillarious. Because Bush and the flat-earthers (religious right) have destroyed the world economy, Fixed News, doesn't even talk about the economy anymore. Instead, all they show now are stories about a cat stuck in a tree or a wild fire or a tornado. And they put on a blond ditz with a short skirt to keep you glued to their useless news. It's hilarious! They have totally copied State Television programming from countries such as North Korea
Comment -
Oh how could I be so naive. It was the student VISAs and MCs which was the downfall of our economy.
Bush supposedly has an IQ of 126. Not only can he dress himself but he can fu&k up our country with his head immersed in a toilet full of beer.
You obviously do not fully understand the foreclosure crisis.
It got out of control because Bush refused to do anything about predatory subprime lenders targeting high risk borrowers became rampant He did nothing because it was political fodder for him to brag about how many people became new homeowners under his watch. Add to that record energy prices and the real estate market bubble bursting the foreclosures were inevitable.Comment -
Fair and balanced.Originally posted by TeamPlayerAnyone who watches Fixed News should be the last person to talk about economics.
Fixed News' latest ploy is hillarious. Because Bush and the flat-earthers (religious right) have destroyed the world economy, Fixed News, doesn't even talk about the economy anymore. Instead, all they show now are stories about a cat stuck in a tree or a wild fire or a tornado. And they put on a blond ditz with a short skirt to keep you glued to their useless news. It's hilarious! They have totally copied State Television programming from countries such as North Korea what legitimate news station has to keep repeating that every 5 min?
Comment -
The problem with that theory is that when people can't pay their mortgage the lenders loose money as well.Originally posted by daggerkobeOh how could I be so naive. It was the student VISAs and MCs which was the downfall of our economy.
Bush supposedly has an IQ of 126. Not only can he dress himself but he can fu&k up our country with his head immersed in a toilet full of beer.
You obviously do not fully understand the foreclosure crisis.
It got out of control because Bush refused to do anything about predatory subprime lenders targeting high risk borrowers became rampant He did nothing because it was political fodder for him to brag about how many people became new homeowners under his watch. Add to that record energy prices and the real estate market bubble bursting the foreclosures were inevitable.Comment -
To be fair, MSNBC/CNN/CBS news/ABC news/NBC news don't talk about the Iraq war anymore.Originally posted by TeamPlayerAnyone who watches Fixed News should be the last person to talk about economics.
Fixed News' latest ploy is hillarious. Because Bush and the flat-earthers (religious right) have destroyed the world economy, Fixed News, doesn't even talk about the economy anymore. Instead, all they show now are stories about a cat stuck in a tree or a wild fire or a tornado. And they put on a blond ditz with a short skirt to keep you glued to their useless news. It's hilarious! They have totally copied State Television programming from countries such as North KoreaComment -
That's why many of the subprime lenders went bellyup. While they were reaping the benefits of skyrocketing real estate prices they failed to see rising gas prices and the downturn in real estate. Then when the bubble finally burst the borrowers who were already barreled in paying for mortgages they couldnt afford plus triple gas prices, they really had no incentive to stay and pay for a home that was virtually worthless.Comment -
Exactly, so the system works. Its not my problem that people take loans they cannot pay for, and it is not my fault lenders give out high risk loans. I do have a problem with the government rescuing the firms though.Originally posted by daggerkobeComment
