Closed account! Betoto.com

isetcap · 03-28-06, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by mirisim

How can they close my account and even without giving me a reason for that ? And what is with my earned money, i should get at least half of them ! If I've lost the money, they wouldnt close my account!

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but I see no reason you shouldn't receive the full amount you requested. A book can not accept wagers, grade wagers, and then decide it doesn't want to pay unless:

You are not of age.
You grossly misrepresented your personal information when you signed up.

Either way, they must provide some explanation for their decision.

natrass · 03-28-06, 10:20 AM

I would guess this may be either a bonus abuse issue or a credit card/********** issue.

As is often the case, the OP has given minimum details ... so, sorry for the scepticism, but I think we've been here before.

On the other hand, if the OP could provide more info ... eg were credit cards used, have you or a 'friend' ever recieved a bonus before, etc

I am often wrong, so lets see ...

isetcap · 03-28-06, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by natrass

I am often wrong, so lets see ...

Actually you're not often wrong (especially when it comes to fraud complaints) but I was in a fairly good mood this morning so I tried to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

Do I think you're wrong to be skeptical on this occasion? No.

mirisim · 03-28-06, 10:54 AM

Thanks for the help. Here are more details:

I'm 22 y.old, and they could see it on my personal document. I didnt use any credit cards, inpayment was made via

Moneybookers (and address of Moneybookers havent been already used for another transactions).

None of my family members wasnt registered at Betoto.com, but some another friends yes.

In my opinion, the main problem was because I had about 8 out of 10 correct picks, and wanted only 3 days after registraton to withdraw my money. And maybe they were more suspicious when they saw in my persolnal document I'm a girl! (Actually, my account haven't been blocked after payout request but after I sent my personal document).

Thanks in advance.

natrass · 03-28-06, 10:56 AM

Thanks isetcap. To be honest, I would have been more sure if the title was "Betoto are thieves" are something .. but it was quite a restrained note.

Its just the minimum details never help .. like, all we could conclude here from the info given is that betoto have gone mental and started taking peoples money for no reason. Clearly, there is more to it ... bit I am guessing it may a long drawn out affair to get the full details here.

isetcap · 03-28-06, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by natrass

Thanks isetcap. To be honest, I would have been more sure if the title was "Betoto are thieves" are something .. but it was quite a restrained note.

Its just the minimum details never help .. like, all we could conclude here from the info given is that betoto have gone mental and started taking peoples money for no reason. Clearly, there is more to it ... bit I am guessing it may a long drawn out affair to get the full details here.

Oh now we know why! They won't pay because he's a girl. Of course. Surely it says somewhere in their T&C that they don't cater to girls because women's intuition gives them an unfair advantage. They simply won't list that as the actual reason in this case because they are concerned about a backlash from women's rights groups.

mirisim · 03-28-06, 11:50 AM

Yes.. it is said clearely in their Terms and Conditions:

Originally posted by Betoto.com

The user declares not to know the outcome of the event when placing the respective bet.

natrass · 03-28-06, 12:09 PM

Sorry, mirisim ... if I can cut to the chase, betoto are probably accusing you of bonus abuse. Would that suprise you?

nikosgr · 03-28-06, 12:44 PM

My opinion:Betoto closed the account because she made withdrawal very fast.I dont think that the 80% of your correct bets plays a big role.
Mirisim, where are u from?Some countries are not very much wellcomed by books.

isetcap · 03-28-06, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by nikosgr

My opinion:Betoto closed the account because she made withdrawal very fast.I dont think that the 80% of your correct bets plays a big role.
Mirisim, where are u from?Some countries are not very much wellcomed by books.

NO book striving to remain open for any amount of time is going to cancel graded wagers because they are unhappy with the fact that a player has withdrawn too quickly UNLESS they have written terms requiring a certain time period be reached.

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

* Only players who do not yet hold a betoto.com account and register with betoto.com for the first time will qualify for the bonus.

** The 100% bonus will be calculated on your first deposit of at least EUR 10 (or the equivalent in another currency) made between 3/9/2006 9:00 AM (GMT+1) and 4/3/2006 11:59 PM (GMT+1). If your first deposit made within the respective time period is less than the specified minimum amount of EUR 10, then you will not be allowed to participate in the promotion..

*** The bonus promotion applies to all deposits made using any one of the betoto.com payment methods offered by the respective countries. Only those deposits made at betoto.com between 3/9/2006 9:00 AM (GMT+1) and 4/3/2006 11:59 PM (GMT+1) will be eligible for the bonus. When depositing via bank transfer, the cash-in bonus will be approved only if the date of your transfer lies within the promotional period.

**** A maximum bonus of EUR 50 (or the equivalent amount in another currency) will be credited per betoto.com account. The bonus will be credited to the respective account within 24 hours after the deposit is made.

***** The complete amount deposited must be placed at least 1 times and the bonus at least 3 times on one or more sports bets exclusively at betoto.com before a payout is allowed (up to 2 months after the promotion has reached its deadline); if this is not carried out the bonus will lose its validity. Please note that it is not allowed to transfer marketing bonuses to other betoto.com products (Supertoto, Casino, Poker, Games).

mirisim · 03-28-06, 01:17 PM

A friend of mine just let me know his account has been disabled too, and he even didnt try to withdraw the money (he had about 200 €)! But the fact is that we are living in one hostel for students and all we have the same IP. But if it is a reason to disable account, they should avoid registering from same IP, and not after winnings to disable account ! That means, you are able to register from the same IP, and lose, but if you won, then its forbidden to register from the same IP... But maybe it hasnt anything to do with IPs...

mirisim · 03-28-06, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by isetcap

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

***** The complete amount deposited must be placed at least 1 times and the bonus at least 3 times on one or more sports bets exclusively at betoto.com before a payout is allowed (up to 2 months after the promotion has reached its deadline); if this is not carried out the bonus will lose its validity. Please note that it is not allowed to transfer marketing bonuses to other betoto.com products (Supertoto, Casino, Poker, Games). [/I]

But all my money has lost his validity... not only bonus....

And I think you didnt understand it well. You dont have to wait 2 monts for outpayment, only what you have to do is to rollover all the money in that period, but if you manage to do that earlier it is not forbidden to withdraw...

isetcap · 03-28-06, 01:20 PM

We have a violation. Natrass is psychic.

fixxer · 03-28-06, 04:56 PM

Hello!
I registered to Betoto in December. I made a deposit via moneybookers.
I made more than 1000 EUR-s from my initial deposit 50 EUR (+50 EUR bonus) with mostly casino, and 2-3 bet slips, in 1 day,. I asked for a withdrawal in the same day.
I sent them the copy of my passport, and I received my winnings in 3 days, without any problems via Western Union..... I guess the problem is not with the IP......they allow more than one family members to register for example.........What's really strange, that they confiscated your winnings.

A few weeks ago I had a problem with Bowmans. I made a deposit with a virtual credit card, which they accepted. I won some money from this deposit, after it, I received a phone call, that there is a problem with that fact that I made a deposit with the virtual card, which they cannot accept. They disabled my account, but asked me to make deposit by another credit card, which I did. After it, they unlocked my account, and I received the full ammount of money back to my account (including the winnings), this is how a bookie should handle a situation like this correctly.
I have accounts with Betoto/Betandwin/Playit, I am using them as my "main bookie", and I made hundreds of withdrawals from them, and I never had any problem with either.

I think your problem should do something with the bonus....IMHO they think that you abused their bonus system somehow...And this can be a reason for not paying your winnings....

You should contact Mr Dozer in this matter, maybe he can help you find out what's the problem with your account. I am sure, that Betoto didn't do this, because you made a few succesful bets with them, they have other reason....

isetcap · 03-28-06, 05:01 PM

Does all of Greece have 1 internet connection that everybody in the country shares?

By the way, my great grandmother wants to place some bets on The X Games. Do you think I should let her use my computer?

natrass · 03-28-06, 06:45 PM

Actually, mirisim, I am a naturally cynical person sometimes but from what you are saying (and you have been honest) it may be that you do not understand that most bookies will have a condition that only one account per person, ete etc and per IP address.

The reason is that effectively one person is claiming the same sign-up bonus many times. Which is not what the bonuses were intended for. So they will take them back. Its not good if they have already let you bet and it is plain wrong that they wait to see if you lose and only tell you when you want to withdraw. They are wrong to do this, I agree.

But if all the students in your hostel signed up .. then this could get a bit crazy !!!

pags11 · 03-29-06, 04:19 AM

sounds like a scam operation to me...

natrass · 03-29-06, 05:19 PM

I think a scam would be the same person opening multiple accounts. This just may be a case of a guy thinking "this is easy money" and telling others who do the same. Without the rule "per IP address" this would be totally legit as they are new customers, etc.

I personally think it may be an innocent matter. But I would love to know how many students piled in ... no wonder they flagged up!!!

MrX · 03-29-06, 05:35 PM

I know it's been said before, but it's obvious that books are 'taking shots' with the way they enforce these IP address issues. It'd be the simplest thing in the world to cross reference IP addys upon signup and refuse multiple signups from the same address. But no, they wait to see if the customer makes it to cashout before letting them know that they never had an opportunity to win.

akis · 03-29-06, 06:13 PM

Hi. I also had a similar problem with betandwin which belongs to the same group.

I got the same message

Your account has been closed due to security reasons and will remain closed. Unfortunately, we cannot give out more information regarding this matter.

I never used bonuses (only on sign up), never bet on "rumoured fixed" games, never bet like pro bettor.

I requested only one withdrawl wich came through normally, but out of the blue one day I saw that message.

My money was lost, never given back, no explanation.

After many months a "friend" from within that company, told me and I quote "the company doesn't want bettors who bet on singles, they prefer bettors who place combo bets, they are more proitable for the company, so they closed your account".

My advice, stay away from this group.

fixxer · 03-29-06, 06:55 PM

Strange to read this Akis....I don't really believe in this kind of "insider" infos....

I usually bet on singles at betandwin, I have an account with them for years, and as I said, I never had any problem with betandwin (except one bet ammount limiting after a few winnings

)....

If such many users say bad things about Betandwin, there could be some truth in these opinions....but still, I like betandwin, and I always received my winnings from them in max 3 days, but usually in 1 day...(Western Union or MB)...and I never had any big problems with their service....

mirisim · 03-29-06, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by natrass

I personally think it may be an innocent matter. But I would love to know how many students piled in ... no wonder they flagged up!!!

Today my friend, from which i've heard about this bonus, told me he said everybody to register and take this "great" offer from Betoto.com...

Now they are getting emails, one by one "your account has been closed" But the thing is, it is not officialy forbidden to register more customers from the same IP! It is not forbidden to register more customers from one household!
But it is not about IP, in my opinion, its all about that we have same kind of personal document from one eastern country and they just think they can do with us whatever they want.
They are pretenting to be the greatest bookie, but when it comes to outpayment, they just tell you you're not welcome anymore...

They shouldn't be allowed to do that? Should we try to sue them?

I have one friend that works in one popular Austrian daily magazine. He could at least warn audience what can happen if they register at Betandwin or Betoto. I really wouldn't like anybody else to experience this situation...

dog · 03-29-06, 08:15 PM

I found this in their rules: betoto.com also has an early warning system (set off whenever there are unusually high stakes and winnings) for immediate detection of manipulation and criminal activity. Sounds like a "catch-all" phrase like the wiseguy rule which was more common in Costan Rican sportsbooks a few years back, and the purpose is to confiscate your money if you win too much based on what you put in and you don't appear to be a profitable customer in the long run. The fact that others using your IP may not have been used as an excuse yet, but it possibly will be if they respond to inquiries.

Bottom line: stay away from this (and any) sportsbooks that have this type of wording in their rules. They are telling you up front that they are prepared to steal from you. I think this sportsbook should be downgraded if they don't provide a proper explanation for this. They are certainly not a C Sportsbook if they do this type of thing.

Even though there may be players who play there for years without a problem, that doesn't excuse their stealing money from anyone. This sportsbook doesn't have a really large internet presence, so the fact that even one person reached this forum with a complaint like this reflects very negatively on them. I believe the poster is telling the truth here, if you win at an 80% clip and withdraw your balance 3 days after you deposit at a small sportsbook you can experience something like this rather easily.

natrass · 03-29-06, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by mirisim

Today my friend, from which i've heard about this bonus, told me he said everybody to register and take this "great" offer from Betoto.com...

Now they are getting emails, one by one "your account has been closed"

Mirism ... it is not because some bets won. That will not be why betoto have done this.

They will say that from one IP address they expect only betting account. This is because when they give a bonus then it is to encourage further betting from that person.

When "everybody" in your student blocks have joined they will argue that most did so just to make a profit from the bonus and had no wish to bet anything beyond that.

You need to look at their rules and see if they say "one account per IP address". If they do then that is the rule you have broken. If they don't then you do have an good argument.

So, the problem now is what about the bets which were placed. This is where they are wrong. They have let you bet and risk your money knowing they will not pay you if you win because of this rule.

I think Bill here will be the person to advise because it is an argument with two sides.

For me, if they let you bet then they should pay you in proportion to how much money you risked and vice-versa.

But its not up to me I'm afraid.

fixxer · 03-30-06, 05:47 PM

I asked my pals about betandwin in my country's betting forum, nobody had the same experience, nobody had their account closed for this reason...the only problem with a few bettors was the betting ammount limiting....and I am from an Eastern European country, which fact usually counts as a "risk factor" for bookies...

Betandwin is a very big bookie, they are the sponsor of many european sport teams (Croatian, Hungarian national soccer team, Spanish league, Barcelona, Juventus etc...), they have many advertisments in newspapers and main sport tv-s in Europe (eurosport)....And they have a very big customer base.... Believe me, Betandwin is one of the most popular bookies amongst european bettors, for example they offer nearly the best variety of oddses for european soccer, and soccer live bettings... I simply can't imagine that they allow themselves to close accounts without real security reasons.....no, I can't even imagine that they close accounts, because somebody wins from them....think about it, that's why they are limiting the betting ammounts....if they close an account, they lose a customer....if they limit him, there is a good chance if somebody likes them (mostly rookie bettors for example, pros rather change bookie, or open another account under the name of a friend, relative etc...), he will stay with them, and start betting bigger combos, as he can't stake big money because the limiting....so closing accounts without real, serious reasons would be a very bad marketing move....and believe me, Betandwin is a pro, and I don't think they do such an amateur thing....

natrass · 03-30-06, 06:04 PM

fixxer ... I think mirrismism cant see past the fact she placed bets and won, they offered her a bonus if she met terms and she did that.

If you are new to the biz that would, as in most walks of life, be a reasonable assumption.

It is a shock to some people to see how bookies will treat you if they see something they dont like.

I can totally understand that for somebody used to how, say, banks and supermarket offers work that it would seem very bad behaviour by a bookie.

That we can say, ah yes, well rule 58(b) section 16 appx 4 states one offer per IP address is fair enough ... but really if they spent less time pushing their integrity and fantastic sales pitches and more time 'telling it like it is' then this wouldnt happen.

How many times do you see an offer and then spend five minutes trying to find the correct terms somewhere hidden away. And we are relatively experienced.

As fior betandwin, I cant remember details but the BA forum has a complaint about them very frequently. betandpray is their nickname there.

They definately would not be my bookie of choice.

I think the whole bookmaking world is a cynical and hard-nosed one and it can be easy to become accustomed to.

To put this in perpective, if you go the betandwin webiste and see the offer then try and locate the "one per IP address" rule .. I can bet you it will be hidden in amongst a long list of small written terms (if it is there at all).

I completely agree with you about them not closing it because they won their first bets, Even BAW arent that rash.

sammyd56 · 04-07-06, 08:15 AM

I have just had pretty much the exact same experience with betandwin. Basically, I won almost £300, applied to withdraw £274, and then my account was closed and the withdrawal for "security reasons" and no-one will tell me any more. How can they accept the bet, pay out, and then take the money away when I try to withdraw it, without even saying why? Unlike the OP, I am most definately the only one of my family and friends who have signed up for this company, and also the only one on my IP address.

Is there anything I can do? Customer services won't tell me anything. If you need any more details I'll be happy to provide them!

Thanks!

natrass · 04-07-06, 11:06 AM

betandwin and global have a terrible reputation in europe for this stuff.

aggie · 04-07-06, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by natrass

betandwin and global have a terrible reputation in europe for this stuff.

that is correct. they close accounts, cancel winnings, etc.

cristianbet · 07-07-08, 09:22 AM

any other complaints about betoto ?

fiveteamer · 07-07-08, 09:39 AM

Yeah, dumb name.

bigboydan · 07-07-08, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by cristianbet

any other complaints about betoto ?

I haven't read anything new about this Bwin sister book lately. The last thing I do recall about them was that an SBR poster Champi did mention it's taking 2 days to receive a payout.