Was Big Brown doped? When do they release the drug tests?

[SBR_John]

I'm not complaining or crying over the bets I lost. But to see any horse, especially that horse, run out of gas like that without an injury makes me .

I seem to remember they drug test the horses after the race. Wonder when we will know for sure?

As a conspiracy theory; if you knew BB was going to finish out of the superfecta you could make millions... I think.

[Francis Sollozzo]

June 8, 2008, 12:35 pm

Big Brown Is O.K.

By Joe Drape

So far no one has found any physical ailments with Big Brown. His trainer, Rick Dutrow, was not at the barns Sunday morning. The colt’s owners were scarce, too.

Michael Iavarone, co-president of International Equine Acquisitions Holdings, who owns part of Big Brown, said they were perplexed about the colt’s performance in the 140th running of the Belmont Stakes.

Jockey Kent Desormeaux pulled an obviously uncomfortable Big Brown up before he had run a mile of the mile-and-a-half Test of the Champion. Iavarone said Desormeaux did the right thing.

“We went over him good last night after the race, and again this morning, and there’s nothing physically that’s shown up,” Iavarone told me just a few minutes ago by telephone. “He scoped clean. His feet are ice cold, quarter crack not an issue. He had a very loose hind left shoe, but that’s not an issue. We’ll just chalk it up to a question mark at this point.

“I’m understanding they had an issue without water and they weren’t able to water the track and it got deep, I don’t know… We’re perplexed, nobody can figure this one out, the horse did not displace (his palate), he scoped fine, there’s no mucous, everything is ice cold. The horse that won, he (Big Brown) had beaten him by 23 (lengths) in the Florida Derby and so, I don’t know. We just have to watch him carefully and make sure we didn’t miss anything.”

Big Brown will stay in training. Iavarone said they would breeze him in two weeks and point to the Travers Stakes, or Midsummer Derby, in Saratoga Springs, and then on to the Breeders Cup Classic.

[Cloak & Dagger]

Drugs had to be a factor....horse didnt look right AT ALL

[pokernut9999]

Dont think they test the horses that lose.

[pavyracer]

The only ones doped are the ones reading this thread.

[Cloak & Dagger]

The only ones doped are the ones reading this thread.

guess you would be one of the guys that thinks horse racing is the most honest industry

[Francis Sollozzo]

this is from a blogger , not me. I think its more dead on than other theories.

Big Brown had been given steroid shots every month on the 15th, without fail. Because the trainer thinks he is God in the flesh, he decided NOT to give Big Brown his steroid shot so he could “prove” his horse could run without anything in his system at all.

This is equal to us stopping caffeine “cold turkey.” This is equal to us “toughing out” a serious headache. This was insanity aka pure stupidity when so much was riding on Big Brown’s success. You do NOT change ANYTHING when you have come so far and have just ONE MORE race to win before the legacy is yours.

This was reported before the race on ABC yesterday during the pre-race coverage and then never addressed again. Everything focused on the “crack in the hoof.” A crack in the hoof can be serious–if left unattended. Big Brown’s hooves were meticulously taken care of and doctored. Again–this was NOT the time to take him off of the steroids that had kept him painfree and running smoothly before now.

Footage of Big Brown in his stall before the race show him bucking and kicking in his stall. Not one time was there someone with him calming him down. If the hoof or anything else was such an issue, Big Brown should have been asked to stand quietly and either graze on some hay or feed or stand quietly while being groomed until the race started.

Over-confidence and stupidity caused Big Browns downfall. There are no guarantees he would have won because there are no guarantees in a horse race. However, consistant management, calm atmosphere, and common sense would have gone a long way in keeping Brown from walking in last place. Before that he had a perfect record. I think that speaks for its self.

[purecarnagge]

horse racing is rigged i swear.

[pokernut9999]

horse racing is rigged i swear.

Some races are rigged, but in no way would those owners risk another 50 million or so in making him lose.

[SBR_John]

Some races are rigged, but in no way would those owners risk another 50 million or so in making him lose.

I agree 100%. the owners wouldnt drug him thats for sure. But how about a handler, a jockey, a track vet or anyone else?

[pokernut9999]

I agree 100%. the owners wouldnt drug him thats for sure. But how about a handler, a jockey, a track vet or anyone else?

I would hope not , hopefully it was just a bad day. He was the only horse running for the 3rd time in 5 weeks and it was hot as hell.

[Shark79]

BB got laid the night before ... nuff said

[DrunkenLullaby]

Lasix + steroids + overrated media creation = answer

[SBR Lou]

I think it had more to do with how the jockey rode him, John. He should have stopped trying to position him around and just let him start going full speed, instead he kept trying to gain better position IMO like in the last few races.

Even this Dutrow guy said it wasn't the horses fault in one interview, I think he's alluding to it there, BB could've easily outran these horses had he not exerted himself for position, getting dirt in his eyes etc. As much of a choke on the jockeys part, that and the other horse simply appeared to want it more.

[SBR_John]

I would hope not , hopefully it was just a bad day. He was the only horse running for the 3rd time in 5 weeks and it was hot as hell.

...and thats probably it. Plus, I dont think the ride was a good one, in hindsight of course. He really spent himself to get to that 3rd spot. And you saw as they strted the turn the back pack catch up to the lead pack. There was no reason to fight and spend all that energy trying to stay just off the pace.

[EaglesPhan36]

Bad hoof. No steroid injection before the race. Longer distance. I think those all factored in ... plus there are a few horses that go undefeated in this many races in a row. I think he was 7 for 7 or 8 for 8 before the Belmont.

[thezbar]

There was a discussion last night and that issue was brought up. He was done by the far turn and didn't resemble the horse we've seen the past few efforts. It would be a big edge to a betting group to know he would finish off the board. I doubt anyone could get to him before the race. But its possible.
Steriods, hoof, lack of training before the race, getting clipped by hoofs into the front turn, the bump when Kent pushed his way to the three path, getting pushed wide on the backstretch, the sand based composition of the Belmont surface, the heat, the distance the list could go on and on.
I hope he runs in the Travers at Saratoga. I also hope them let the public know whether he is running with steriods on or steriods off!

[INVEGA MAN]

I think Kent gave the horse a bad ride. I think he thought they were going to box him in and and not let him out. But hell, that was early in the race, and why did he panic so early. That horse didnt know which way to turn. It looked the horse said" fuch you Kent, I am finished for the day"

[SBR Lou]

I think Kent gave the horse a bad ride. I think he thought they were going to box him in and and not let him out. But hell, that was early in the race, and why did he panic so early. That horse didnt know which way to turn. It looked the horse said" fuch you Kent, I am finished for the day"

Agree. More on jockey than horse. He choked too.

[ritehook]

Responding to a few of the posts:

pavy's is the only one I 100% agree with!

Anyone can check my prior posts on horse racing lto see that I call it the ultimate insideres game. If you are not an insider, or have developed a creative way to read the tboard, stay away. Except for a day of fun in the sun.

However, major races will be the least "insider friendly" and the most truly run. Too much attention on the event for the dopesters and the pullers and the assorted grifters that populate every track in the land to do dirty

[ChampDog]

Extra !!!! Extra !!! Belmont Beats DaTar Out Of Big Brown !!!

Some one forgot to tell BB's conection,uhhhhah, I mean trainer about the drop off when you stop taking STEROIDS !!!

[ritehook]

I was a bit surpised to see crazyl agree that it was at least partly the rider's fault.

And that after being in the elite 3 or 4 who posted threads advissing fellow sbrers NOT to bet Big Brown!

Lou, it wasn't Desmoreaux's fault. Every losing player in every racetrack in the whole crazy world wants to blame the jockey for his fukkin loss.

90% of the time they are wrong. Yes, rider's do make mistakes, all the time. But Desormeuax could tell that, as he said, when he tried to make a move, that he had "no horse."

Racetrackese for saying that when he asked for more BB did not respond. Just like some human marathoners, esp in bad weather, may not respond on a a particular day, even tho they won the same race before.

Desormeaux simply let up when he saw that the horse was not going to run that day.

But wasn't Big Brown the greatest thing to come down the pike since Man o War? Isn't he Citation, War Admiral, Native Dancer, Secretariat and Affirmed all wrapped into one beautiful package? MY GOD,HOW COULD HE LOSE???!!!!

As Stosssel says: GIMME A BREAK.

The horse was very lightly raced. He easily handled his 3 yo competition, a group that is absolutely one of the most mediocre ever seen.

Then the quarter crack. Do not believe it did not affect him, altho perhaps not noticeably.

Count on this: if it wasn't a shot at racing immortality no trainer anywhere, not even at Leaky Roof Downs, is going to bring a horse back in 2 weeks without adequate preparation, in a 1 1/2 mile marathon. On a blistering hot afternoon.

Those who warned against betting this horse (myself among them) know that he was drastically UNDERLAID - ie OVERBET.

I mean, OVERBET taken to the zillionth degree. We'd have to bring in Ganch to calculate how overbet the horse was.

I had stated in my pre-race thread that even if he won easily he was a bad bet,because he was such a severe underlay. You can't make money long term in betting with bogus "sure things."

Jeez, this is a board for sharp bettors?

[SBR Lou]

I didn't think the horse would win as I posted, but I think there was more of a human element in it than I had anticipated. Either way, the horse was gassed, but I don't know that it wouldn't have at least been close had the jockey had an optimal ride. It wasn't one thing in particular, just a bunch of little things pieced together. The no-steroids, lack of sufficient practice, the heat, the horse getting grazed, etc etc.

No matter what, I wasn't laying that kind of price on that animal in that spot, that is what was a certainty, I'm not sure what factor deserves the biggest portion of blame from the BB camp, but it was certainly an epic failure.

[ritehook]

coupla other things.

All race day medication is forbidden in every racing jurisdiction in the US - except for Bute (butazalodin, a pain killer) and Lasix (forsemide, a broncodilator).

American has no racehorses, just a bunch of medicated cripples. One of the three foundation sires - not Eclipse - was a bleeder, and passed that defect down to subsequent generations.

IMO, both Bute and Lasix should be banned race day, just as in Europe.

In all races the first three finishers must have a spit or urine test. Plus one of the losers, chosen at randon. But I think, in NY, in major stakes races, ALL the horses must be tested.

Only once, to my knowledge, in a classic race, was horse DQ'd for failing a post-race test, one of the Kentucky Derby's in the 70s, I think.

If one is going to bet into the Insider's Game, you could do worse than to stick with the big races, those with purses over $250k. Less skullduggerly likely there.

In the future, John et al, please do not follow the mass hysteria and waste your coin on ridiculous underlays.

[ritehook]

cl, I agree there was a human element.

Dutrow should not have let the "paths of glory" cloud his judgement, and without the adequate prep, plus the weather, should not have run this horse that day.

Were I the trainer I would have sent the horse to the lead - the Belmont is NOT won by deep closers, despite the marathon distance. I woould have tried to emulate Secretariat's great feat 35 years ago.

But - the barn had success in the past with the off the pace type ride. Kent probably just followed Dutrow's instructions, tried to make his move, and had no horse. If he had been put on the lead it's likely he would not have had the gas to go all the way.

This is still a very green horse. Frankly, altho only bloody fools bet this gross underlay in the Belmont (and congrats to you for the bold thread) I'm not totally down on him.

Given time to recover from this grueling 3 race triathlon, let's see how he does vs some good older horses, maybe in the Haskell down in Jersey, some of the fall classics, and of course the Breeders Cup.

But if they do retire him right now to stud I think we can be reasonbly sure that there is something wrong with him. And Dutrow and the owners should be lined up against the tack room wall and shot.

[Dark Horse]

As a conspiracy theory; if you knew BB was going to finish out of the superfecta you could make millions... I think.

Yes. Dutrow is into betting big. Before he changed his mind he said he'd bet 100K on BB in the Kentucky Derby. So the door is open to ... 'possibilities'. But I really don't care. If he cleaned up by betting against BB after the horse won the first two legs of the TC, good for him. Any black eye to the hypocritical, legalized horse betting industry works for me.

[ritehook]

dh, I agree that it is a hypocritical industry.

But many, many trainers are bettors, and some are big bettors.

The late Charlie Whittingham is one of the few I knew who did not bet his horses (tho he would tell owners and others if he thought he "had a chance." That is how trainers put off importunate owners and friends,asking him about a horse: "He has a chance.")

But I would doubt that Dutrow, a multimillionaire like all top trainers, would bet agaisnt his horse in this race. Just too much chance of it all coming out and him losing all his clients, and having to go back walking hots!

[ritehook]

I agree 100%. the owners wouldnt drug him thats for sure. But how about a handler, a jockey, a track vet or anyone else?

Horses like this are kept under strict security watch, including cameras. Many duplicate checks. Because the industry knows that it could get a major black eye if some sh1t came down on such a "beloved" horse.

There are already calls from animal activists to ban the sport.

Obviously, anything is possible. And there's a lot of money involved.

But to make the danger of imprisonment and risk of detection worthwhile, they would have to get lots of bets down on the exotics,not only on track but off.

You have contacts in the offshore betting world. Have any of the books to your knowledge complained of or suspect they've been had? More money than anticipated come in on the exotics,with BB dutched out?

Give us a report.

[Dark Horse]

But I would doubt that Dutrow, a multimillionaire like all top trainers, would bet agaisnt his horse in this race. Just too much chance of it all coming out and him losing all his clients, and having to go back walking hots!

I doubt it as well. But it would make a good story.

I didn't know that all top trainers are multimillionaires. Just heard that he was flat broke and homeless some years back.

[axion08]

I think BB was just running bad, and wore out. Way to much money on the line
for someone who was actually close to the horse to mess with it. The average Joe has a better chance of doping a celebrity than this horse, so seems pretty unlikely.

With that being said I was really hoping for a BB win.

[bbyhill]

I think Kent gave the horse a bad ride. I think he thought they were going to box him in and and not let him out. But hell, that was early in the race, and why did he panic so early. That horse didnt know which way to turn. It looked the horse said" fuch you Kent, I am finished for the day"

you said it KD gave him such a horrible ride and blew yet another triple crown.

[SBR Lou]

you said it KD gave him such a horrible ride and blew yet another triple crown.

Just a poor ride overall.

[bbyhill]

Da' Tara is from Tiznow so no big surprise there but KD should have taken him to the lead out of the gate instead of out in and back out again and got the horse checked and bumped that was it and BB looked like a mad horse when the race was over.

[jjgold]

Some people knew Big Brown was going to run out of the money, this was rigged for some unknown bizarre reason

[SBR Lou]

Some people knew Big Brown was going to run out of the money, this was rigged for some unknown bizarre reason

You mean like me??

http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/77077-official-big-brown-will-not-place-thread.html?highlight=the+official+big+brown