Lebron isn't clutch

[rsnnh12]

Kobe is 6/22 on potential game winners in the playoffs. Lebron isn't "clutch" (in the making game-winners sense), but either is Kobe

[crustyme]

again, I am looking at at it as a relative nono when it comes to basketball. But is clutchiness not more than merely the last shot? What if a player screws everything in the final minutes but somehow scores the finale FG. Does that mean he is clutch? I wonder because if that same guy did not screw up, a game winning short was not necessary. I am not implying kobe is that guy. Since I do not have a real interest in basketball. Still, i wonder why people only mention the last shot. What if a guy misses the last shot but kept them in the game by going on an unreal scoring spree in the final minutes to have even a chance on a game winning shot. Does that mean he is not clutch? I think that is harsh since without the same guy there wouldnt be a game winning shot at all.I just wonder how you can define if someone is clutch or not.

Additionally, noone remembers the game winning defence of the defence who made a game winning shot possible. People have bad short term memory and only remember the last shot i think you should look at the last minutes. Anyway you can leep on discussing what the rules should be for clutch.

I already said you should not take these numbers literally since you can always make up rules, which make your guy look better. Maybe the author was a lebron fan. Anyway the fact that someone opens a topic and with so many replies tells us that the number of objective posters is limited.

which of these would you consider a "game winning shot" in your mind:

A) 25 seconds left, player A hits a jumpshot with 2 seconds left to put his team up by 1. They win as the other team bricks a 70 foot desperation shot.

B) 24 seconds left, player B makes a layup with 10 seconds left to tie the score. They lose the game as the other team makes a shot at the buzzer.

i think most people would say "A". but according to 82games.com, it would be "B" because "A" does not meet their definition of a "game winning shot." how ridiculous is that?

which of these would you consider more "clutch" in your mind:

A) down by 10 with 5 min to go, player A scores 20 pts to lead his team to a dramatic comeback victory.

B) up by 4 with 5 min to go, player B only scores 2 pts and his team loses by 10.

i think most people would say "A" here also. but according to 82games.com, it would be "B" because "A" does not meet their definition of "clutch." again, how ridiculous is that?

obviously you and 82games.com have a different view of what game winning shot & clutch is than everyone else.

you must also think mike vanderjagt was a better kicker than adam vinatieri, since mike was far more accurate, except when it came to kicking game winning fields in the final seconds.

[m3xtreme]

Love the name... never was clutch, don't understand why this is even an argument. hes a great player but closer or clutch he is NOT.. haha its ok one day the haters will understand, or stay clueless like LeBrick..

[rsnnh12]

which of these would you consider a "game winning shot" in your mind:

A) 25 seconds left, player A hits a jumpshot with 2 seconds left to put his team up by 1. They win as the other team bricks a 70 foot desperation shot.

B) 24 seconds left, player B makes a layup with 10 seconds left to tie the score. They lose the game as the other team makes a shot at the buzzer.

i think most people would say "A". but according to 82games.com, it would be "B" because "A" does not meet their definition of a "game winning shot." how ridiculous is that?

which of these would you consider more "clutch" in your mind:

A) down by 10 with 5 min to go, player A scores 20 pts to lead his team to a dramatic comeback victory.

B) up by 4 with 5 min to go, player B only scores 2 pts and his team loses by 10.

i think most people would say "A" here also. but according to 82games.com, it would be "B" because "A" does not meet their definition of "clutch." again, how ridiculous is that?

obviously you and 82games.com have a different view of what game winning shot & clutch is than everyone else.

you must also think mike vanderjagt was a better kicker than adam vinatieri, since mike was far more accurate, except when it came to kicking game winning fields in the final seconds.

In your first example, 82games actually would consider 'A' a game winner... if the shot happened with <24 seconds, it fits their criteria...

And again, Kobe is 6/22 in playoff game-winners, so he's not exactly "clutch" (in the game-winning sense) either

[RedSox88]

I would have to say that lebron james def isn't cluth. He always feels the need to take the game winning shot when in reality hes only hit like one of them for the win. Hes a giant tool.

[crustyme]

Kobe is 6/22 on potential game winners in the playoffs. Lebron isn't "clutch" (in the making game-winners sense), but either is Kobe

how can he be 6 for 22 when he has just 4 game winning shots in the playoffs, dumbfuk? (jordan has 5).

another made up shit from the resident neo kook. but not surprising coming from an idiot who believes dickhead cheney had no ties to haliburton, although he was receiving 6 figure salaries from them while vice president of the us. not to mention stock options that ballooned from $300k to $10 million after he awarded them a no bid contract to iraq worth billions

[crustyme]

In your first example, 82games actually would consider 'A' a game winner... if the shot happened with <24 seconds, it fits their criteria...

And again, Kobe is 6/22 in playoff game-winners, so he's not exactly "clutch" (in the game-winning sense) either

again, you can't read.

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game

[foutty25]

lebron james is the man

[Buckeye]

More like Lebron James sucks!

[rsnnh12]

how can he be 6 for 22 when he has just 4 game winning shots in the playoffs, dumbfuk? (jordan has 5).

another made up shit from the resident neo kook. but not surprising coming from an idiot who believes dickhead cheney had no ties to haliburton, although he was receiving 6 figure salaries from them while vice president of the us. not to mention stock options that ballooned from $300k to $10 million after he awarded them a no bid contract to iraq worth billions

You're right, he's only made 4 to win (2 to tie) out of 22 chances. I'm sorry... that doesn't change the fact that he is 6/22 in game-tying/winning shots in the playoffs... hardly a great percentage, right? Every game listed-

http://chasing23.com/2011/02/the-myth-of-playoff-kobe/

Why am I not surprised you didn't return to that thread... too many facts for you, huh? Cliffs- Cheney would have received that salary no matter what, even if Halliburton went bankrupt. The salary had no bearing on how Halliburton did as a company. All of his stock options were donated to charity, and he had no control over when the options were cashed in. And finally, he has no control over who the Army Corps of Engineers gives contracts to. Nice try though.

Feel free to go back to that thread to try to refute any of your baseless ramblings (without resorting to name calling, which is the only real way to make you feel like you are right).

[rsnnh12]

again, you can't read.

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game

Exactly... is 2 seconds left not considered 24 seconds or less?

There's a difference between buzzer beater and game-winner...

[BlastByou]

least clutch player in the history of the game

[crustyme]

kobe tied the nba record with 6 game winners last season and has as many game winners as jordan but hes not clutch? lol.... dumfuk.

I pummeled you with facts in the political forum and you responded with the same neo-kook-bullshit. you lost, get over it.

the fact cheney was paid over $50 million from haliburton, even as vice president was paid a salary and held stock options is proof enough of his bias and favoritism. so no surprise when they received a no bid contract worth billions. only a neo-kook would deny this.

[crustyme]

Exactly... is 2 seconds left not considered 24 seconds or less?

There's a difference between buzzer beater and game-winner...

wow what a dumfuk....... read it again or ask someone with a reading comprehension above 3rd grade to explain it to you.

[rsnnh12]

kobe tied the nba record with 6 game winners last season and has as many game winners as jordan but hes not clutch? lol.... dumfuk.

I pummeled you with facts in the political forum and you responded with the same neo-kook-bullshit. you lost, get over it.

the fact cheney was paid over $50 million from haliburton, even as vice president was paid a salary and held stock options is proof enough of his bias and favoritism. so no surprise when they received a no bid contract worth billions. only a neo-kook would deny this.

Yea, that's great, in the regular season. He's 6/22 in the playoffs... how is that clutch? Playoffs>regular season. When do game-winning (or tying) shots matter more?

And go back to that thread and try to use sources to back up your 'facts'. Even FactCheck.org disagreed with you. Again, he received that salary no matter what happened with Halliburton, and stock options were donated to charity.

[crustyme]

5 rings, 7 finals, 30ppg in past 3 playoffs & back to back finals mvp.

what a choker. lol

[rsnnh12]

5 rings, 7 finals, 30ppg in past 3 playoffs & back to back finals mvp.

what a choker. lol

And 6/22 on potential game-winners.

And let's be honest... Shaq carried him to the first 3.

Kobe is an all time great (prob top 10), but he just isn't as "clutch" with game winners as people think

[crustyme]

yeah because shaq was busy winning championships while kobe was a benchwarmer earlier in his career. who carried him the past 3 seasons? sasha vijacic? lo



and stop lying about cheney not benefitting from haliburton stocks he exercised shortly after the passing of the katrina tax refund. he netted $2 million!

Cheney's shady charitable contributions net $2 million refund

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/04/18/203066/-Cheneys-shady-charitable-contributions-net-$2-million-refund

[rsnnh12]

yeah because shaq was busy winning championships while kobe was a benchwarmer earlier in his career. who carried him the past 3 seasons? sasha vijacic? lo



and stop lying about cheney not benefitting from haliburton stocks he exercised shortly after the passing of the katrina tax refund. he netted $2 million!

Cheney's shady charitable contributions net $2 million refund

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/04/18/203066/-Cheneys-shady-charitable-contributions-net-$2-million-refund

How did Kobe and the Lakers do after Shaq left and before Gasol got there? How many rings?

And what's illegal/shady about getting a tax refund, on stock options THAT HE DIDN'T CONTROL? He had no influence on when they were cashed in. So you've gone from, "he profitted $10 million" to "he got a $2 mil tax refund". Lol

Anyway, this is an NBA thread... go get owned about Cheney in the other thread

[crustyme]

"How did Kobe and the Lakers do after Shaq left and before Kobe got there? How many rings?"

does this even make sense?

how many rings does kobe have without shaq? 2
how many rings does shaq have without kobe? 1


are you blind & dumb? cheney exercised his haliburton stocks soon after the katrina tax relief act was passed, which netted him a $2 million refund, even though he claimed he wouldn't take a tax deduction. what a lying shithead. so as vice president of the united states, the asshole took in another $3 million from haliburton, including an annual salary for 5 years. but he wasn't in bed with haliburton, right? lol

choking on facts like lebrick chokes under pressure?

[rsnnh12]

"How did Kobe and the Lakers do after Shaq left and before Kobe got there? How many rings?"

does this even make sense?

how many rings does kobe have without shaq? 2
how many rings does shaq have without kobe? 1


are you blind & dumb? cheney exercised his haliburton stocks soon after the katrina tax relief act was passed, which netted him a $2 million refund, even though he claimed he wouldn't take a tax deduction. what a lying shithead. so as vice president of the united states, the asshole took in another $3 million from haliburton, including an annual salary for 5 years. but he wasn't in bed with haliburton, right? lol

choking on facts like lebrick chokes under pressure?

Sorry, it was a typo, I meant Gasol. Fixed it just before your post.

Cheney didn't exercise the options... he didn't have control of them. What are you not understanding about that? And do you have a link to him saying he wouldn't take a tax deduction? And, yet again, he received that salary regardless of how Halliburton did, so how is that relevant?

[orioles]

Lebron is all flash. Might be as good as Dominique Wilkens. He is not even close to being in the same class as Kobe. Remember in a playoff game he was about to dunk to tie the game instead he passed off to his center for a three. He is not clutch and will never win an NBA championship.

[Hotdiggity11]

This is like the 4th game in 2 weeks I saw Lebron attempt a game-winning shot or to tie and he missed every single time.

[crustyme]

so gasol is the savior of the lakers? really? the same guy with a very pedastrian 18.8 ppg & 9 rpg career numbers? the same guy who was 0-12 in the playoffs without kobe? lol

lakers were in first place and well on their way to a division title when they traded for gasol. yeah, they got better but anyone would've been an improvement over kwame brown, who was shockingly their starting center.

but gasoft is also the main reason why they lost in the finals as kg used and abused him.

he's alright but kobe would've won with just about any good center simply because kwame was a huge liability on both ends of the floor.

what don't you get? according to notre dame professor michael kirsch, dickhead cheney took advantage of a loophole in the katrina tax relief act which was enacted to help katrina victims to net himself a $2 million tax refund by donating to non-katrina related charities.

i guess it was all just a coincidence that his haliburton options were exercised soon after the katrina tax act was passed and also a coincidence that he wrote a $2 million personal check at the same time to the gift administrator. yeah and haliburton receiving a no bid contract worth billions while the vice president of the us was on their payroll was also a giant coincidence.

[Bswitz32]

Lebron is a great player but I would not want him taking or trying to take the last shot. Give it to the man who has been in Miami and stayed in Miami mister DWADE.....I would rather see him taking the last shot cause at least if he gets fouled he is hitting his foul shots.

BOL

ps....quit talking politics in here!

[crustyme]

lebrick is 1-7fg this season with a chance to tie or win, according to espn. lol

wade is surprisingly 0-5.

it's like lebrick has infected wade with the choke flu or something.

[rsnnh12]

so gasol is the savior of the lakers? really? the same guy with a very pedastrian 18.8 ppg & 9 rpg career numbers? the same guy who was 0-12 in the playoffs without kobe? lol

lakers were in first place and well on their way to a division title when they traded for gasol. yeah, they got better but anyone would've been an improvement over kwame brown, who was shockingly their starting center.

but gasoft is also the main reason why they lost in the finals as kg used and abused him.

he's alright but kobe would've won with just about any good center simply because kwame was a huge liability on both ends of the floor.

what don't you get? according to notre dame professor michael kirsch, dickhead cheney took advantage of a loophole in the katrina tax relief act which was enacted to help katrina victims to net himself a $2 million tax refund by donating to non-katrina related charities.

i guess it was all just a coincidence that his haliburton options were exercised soon after the katrina tax act was passed and also a coincidence that he wrote a $2 million personal check at the same time to the gift administrator. yeah and haliburton receiving a no bid contract worth billions while the vice president of the us was on their payroll was also a giant coincidence.

So why didn't Kobe win without Shaq or Gasol? If he's so amazing, why couldn't he win a ring without them (and why did he want out of LA if they didn't bring in a big name)? No superstar can win on their own, so don't act like Kobe is light years ahead of LBJ, just because he has rings.

What's the problem with taking advantage of tax loopholes? I'm sure lots of people took advantage of that one, and almost everyone uses some type of loophole. You said that Cheney said he wouldn't take any tax refund because of it, which is completely false, and you know it. Unless you can link to him saying otherwise. So he gave a $2 million check (to ensure liquidity), and received $2 million... if anything, that makes him look like a good guy, since he gained $0 total, right? Halliburton had gotten no-bid contracts years before Cheney was VP... it wasn't a new thing for them

[shawnkang]

don't people get tired of hating him? judge him on what he does these playoffs not meaningless regular season games.

[Qtip]

Lol at the shaq/gasol. Did you forget Lebron has a finals MVP in D Wade and a supposedly better player than Gasol in Bosh? Kobe + 1 = Ring(s) / Lebronze + 2 = Choke city

If Lebronze was better than Kobe and Michael he would have got it done alone in Cleveland, but he's not even good enough to get it done with 1 other star he needs 2, o wait, that's not working. Lotta fanboi's with Lebronzes milk on their lips in here.

[rsnnh12]

Lol at the shaq/gasol. Did you forget Lebron has a finals MVP in D Wade and a supposedly better player than Gasol in Bosh? Kobe + 1 = Ring(s) / Lebronze + 2 = Choke city

If Lebronze was better than Kobe and Michael he would have got it done alone in Cleveland, but he's not even good enough to get it done with 1 other star he needs 2, o wait, that's not working. Lotta fanboi's with Lebronzes milk on their lips in here.

I'm far from a Lebron fan, but they haven't even had a postseason together yet... I don't think they'll win it (Boston, baby!) but there's a reason they play the games. Wouldn't be too surprising if the Heat won it all. And Gasol is WAY better than Bosh (although both are very soft for their size).

I'm just sick of Kobe (and his fans) acting like he did it on his own and that he's a god with game-winners, when neither one is even close to true

[Qtip]

don't people get tired of hating him? judge him on what he does these playoffs not meaningless regular season games.

We are judging him on whats he's done in the post season. Nothing. That's the point Mr. Shortbus.

[crustyme]

did you not see kobe score 35ppg without shaq or gasol and lead the lakers to back to back playoff appearances with the likes of kwame brown and smush parker? two of the worst starters in the league?

again, gasol is nothing special. his stats are avg at best, plus he couldn't win a single playoff game without kobe. i guess since kobe has never won a title without fisher either, he should also be inducted in to the hall of fame.

again, lakers were in first place and 14 games over .500 before gasol ever played for them. so they were already one of the better teams in the league with possibly the worst starting centers in history. whether they would have won it all with kwame who knows, but it's not like gasol turned a lottery team in to champions.

liar, liar pants on fire:

"his lawyer has said he will not take any tax deduction for the donations"

http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=254548

of course, haliburton is nothing new to lying and breaking the law to get their way, as evidenced by their $180 million bribery scheme headed by cheney:

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/breaking-news-dick-cheney-charged-in-180-million-bribery-scheme/question-1380639/

[rsnnh12]

did you not see kobe score 35ppg without shaq or gasol and lead the lakers to back to back playoff appearances with the likes of kwame brown and smush parker? two of the worst starters in the league?

again, gasol is nothing special. his stats are avg at best, plus he couldn't win a single playoff game without kobe. i guess since kobe has never won a title without fisher either, he should also be inducted in to the hall of fame.

again, lakers were in first place and 14 games over .500 before gasol ever played for them. so they were already one of the better teams in the league with possibly the worst starting centers in history. whether they would have won it all with kwame who knows, but it's not like gasol turned a lottery team in to champions.

liar, liar pants on fire:

"his lawyer has said he will not take any tax deduction for the donations"

http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=254548

of course, haliburton is nothing new to lying and breaking the law to get their way, as evidenced by their $180 million bribery scheme headed by cheney:

http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...stion-1380639/

So you're agreeing Kobe couldn't win a ring without Gasol. Good. Funny you mention bad starting lineups and hate Lebron, considering he had terrible lineups in Cleveland (arguably the worst ever to make a Finals, other than maybe AIs).

Lol at the first source. Some guy saying that in an article=/=Cheney or his lawyer saying it. Its hearsay. Got anything from Cheney saying that? And he didn't need to donate the money. He could've kept it. But he's a jerk for not doing that?

[crustyme]

Lol at the shaq/gasol. Did you forget Lebron has a finals MVP in D Wade and a supposedly better player than Gasol in Bosh? Kobe + 1 = Ring(s) / Lebronze + 2 = Choke city If Lebronze was better than Kobe and Michael he would have got it done alone in Cleveland, but he's not even good enough to get it done with 1 other star he needs 2, o wait, that's not working. Lotta fanboi's with Lebronzes milk on their lips in here.

if kobe was a cavalier last season, they would have won it all. lebrick had more talent than the lakers that's for sure. while kobe only had 1 teammate who had ever been an all star, lebrick had 4! you don't win 60+ games without a strong supporting cast. yet, lebrick shot 3-15fg in crucial game 5 and they got bounced in the 2nd round to the smeltics, the same team the lakers beat. lol

[Mac4Lyfe]