Iran is on a highway to its own destruction

[curious]

Time and time again..? Give me 10 examples and since this happens time and time again giving me 10 examples for Iran's extreme radicalism should be easy...

That is an easy one.

1. Nov 4, 1979 Invasion of US Embassy and kidnapping American citizens protected under diplomatic immunity.
2. April 18, 1983. Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut by Iran's proxies Hezbollah. 63 people killed.
3. Oct 23, 1983. Bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, 241 Marines killed. These Marines were there to protect the Palestinians in the camps from the kind of massacre that happened in Sept '82.
4. Dec 12, 1983. Bombing of the US embassy in Kuwait 87 people were killed or seriously injured.
5. Dec 3, 1984. Hijacking of Kuwait Airways Flight 221 and murder of 2 American officials.
6. 1989. Ayatollah Khomeini's issues a fatwa calling for the assassination of Salman Rushdie. The Iranian government put up a $2 million bounty on Rushdie. 37 people died in a fire set at a magazine kiosk which had magazines featuring excerpts from Rushdie's book. Everyone involved in Rushdie's book has been attacked or threatened with murder.
7. 1996 Khobar towers bombing. 19 US servicemen killed, over 500 people wounded.
8. Oct 12, 2000. USS Cole bombing. 17 sailors killed, over 30 wounded.
9. 1992 and 1994. Bombing of the Israeli embassy and Jewish cultural centers in Buenos Aires, 125 people killed.
10. Sept 17, 1992. Assassination of Sadegh Sharaf-Kindi, leader of the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan and 3 colleagues in broad daylight at a Berlin cafe.

I could go on and on with examples of Iran's extreme radicalism, but I think I make my point.

[ShamsWoof10]

LOL no if I was an Israeli jew I would have continued like this...

Ok my bad an Isreali Jew GHOST!!!

Look at KFuffle FIRST post...

Hi Shamwoof

wuzzup?

[curious]

I made it perfectly CLEAR what I was asking... Why the f*ck do you answer questions with other questions...? All you did was re list was you are told is fact...



I don't know if they are AND YOU DON'T EITHER and don't act like you know...

It goes back to my orginal question...

WHO TOLD YOU ALL THESE SO CALLED "FACTS".. and don't answer it with five other questions... This is why I insult so if you want to "discuss" it then answer the f*ckin' question with an answer...

Here it is again...

Let me ask you something "Curious" and it would be nice for you to answer this... The information about Iran that you are claiming is FACT came from where..? and was it the same source that gave you the same information about IRAQ... TWICE>>??? If so how can you say ...A..these are facts and B..they are believeable..?

What makes you think these are facts ...this should be answered FIRST and then we can debate them....

So, you are saying I have to quote sources in order for you to state your opinion on the validity of the statements?

Which, when I do that you will then attack the sources and you will still refuse to address the statements.

I have asked you 3 times to give specific answers to specific statements and you refuse and instead resort to name calling and insults.

Now you say you cannot respond specifically to specific statements unless you know the source.

Which, of course is disingenuous because you will then attack the source of the facts.

[ShamsWoof10]

3. Oct 23, 1983. Bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, 241 Marines killed. These Marines were there to protect the Palestinians in the camps from the kind of massacre that happened in Sept '82..

ok most of this is bullsh*t but let's hit #3... This shows that you are full of sh*t "curious"... Notice how he points out the massacre but doesn't say who did it and doesn't list all the massacres that were done to them.... He only uses it to support his point...

Your points are warmongaring propaganda and NOT facts... You are an SBR version of Fox news...

[ShamsWoof10]

Now you say you cannot respond specifically to specific statements unless you know the source.

Which, of course is disingenuous because you will then attack the source of the facts.

Show me where I said that dipsh*t... I resort to name calling because you put words in my mouth.. and why do you act like you don't call anyone names... Idiot is name calling the last time I checked...

You know exactly where I am going with this that is why you are being careful with your response... You know damn well what I want you to say but you won't say it because by naming the source it makes you look stupid...

So I'll ask you this ONE TIME..and if you answer then I'll answer any question you present...

Did your source lie in the past 10 years and if so HOW MANY TIMES..????

[curious]

[QUOTE=ShamsWoof10;676068][QUOTE=curious;676042] 3. Oct 23, 1983. Bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, 241 Marines killed. These Marines were there to protect the Palestinians in the camps from the kind of massacre that happened in Sept '82..

ok most of this is bullsh*t but let's hit #3... This shows that you are full of sh*t "curious"... Notice how he points out the massacre but doesn't say who did it and doesn't list all the massacres that were done to them.... He only uses it to support his point...

Your points are warmongaring propaganda and NOT facts... You are an SBR version of Fox news...

So, you are saying that the Marines were not murdered by Iranian proxy forces?

Or, are you saying that the Marines' mission in Lebanon was not to prevent further massacres of Palestinians?

Or, are you saying that the massacres were somehow the Marines fault so that the bombing was "justified"?

I just don't understand what possible difference it makes who committed the massacres of the Palestinians which led to the US sending the Marines there to protect the Palestinians from future atrocities. Unless you are saying that the Marines were somehow culpable. Which is hard to believe since they were not in Lebanon when the atrocities occurred.

Not that I think it makes any difference to the fact that Iranian proxies murdered the Marines who were part of an international peace keeping force, but the earlier massacres in the Palestinian camps were carried out by the Phalangist militia, allies of Israel in the Lebanese civil war.

[curious]

Show me where I said that dipsh*t... I resort to name calling because you put words in my mouth.. and why do you act like you don't call anyone names... Idiot is name calling the last time I checked...

You know exactly where I am going with this that is why you are being careful with your response... You know damn well what I want you to say but you won't say it because by naming the source it makes you look stupid...

So I'll ask you this ONE TIME..and if you answer then I'll answer any question you present...

Did your source lie in the past 10 years and if so HOW MANY TIMES..????

Well, since I use original source documents for most of my information, and I use many sources, your question is nonsensical, since the way you phrased the question you assume I have one news source. And, you already said you think I get all of my information from Fox news. Which is funny because I don't watch television news.

So, I cannot answer your question. Which, of course you don't want me to, because you have no intention of actually discussing any of the facts I presented.

So, you are saying that Iran did not have involvement in the 10 examples I gave of Iran's fanatical behavior?

[mathdotcom]

curious's sources:

https://www.kkk.com

https://www.americarules.com/those/who/disagree/are/our/enemies.html

Why all the political posting on a sports forum?
(Answer I predict: "because I have a right to phucking post here you shit")

[curious]

Sources

1. Israel named their best air force general as head of the "Iran front" because they view Iran's continual nuclear arms program as a threat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/27/wmid27.xml

This is a website run by the owners of the highly respected
British Telegraph newspapers.

How many times has the Telegraph told lies in the last 10 years? I have no idea.

2. Israel is building a new combined arms army to be trained in asymmetric warfare. The obvious target of this army is Hezbollah and Syria.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/06/marine_israel_combattraining_070624/

I don't have a single quote that shows that Israel is building a new army. I have many quotes that show a new battalion here, a new regiment there. You add them together and they equal an army. All are specially trained in asymmetric warfare.

3. Iran is buying missile technology from China.

http://www.nti.org/db/china/miranpos.htm

Before you start screaming that this is a rightwing site, Ted Turner is behind this site. No one would call him rightwing.

4. Iran is pursuing nuclear technology.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/nuke/

FAS is the foundation of american scientists. Hardly a hotbed of rightwing warmongering.

5. Israel will launch a war to prevent Iran attaining nuclear arms

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/exopolitica/esp_exopolitics_ZZZX.htm

[curious]

curious's sources:

https://www.kkk.com

https://www.americarules.com/those/who/disagree/are/our/enemies.html

Why all the political posting on a sports forum?
(Answer I predict: "because I have a right to phucking post here you shit")

Please don't try to speak for me you piece of shit.

[mathdotcom]

I like your last source. Very credible.

[curious]

I like your last source. Very credible.

That one is a joke shithead.

[mathdotcom]

I'm sorry but the only joke here is you.

Sortir.

[curious]

I'm sorry but the only joke here is you.

Sortir.

Yes, I agree, you are sorry.

[Ship It!]

Please don't try to speak for me you piece of shit.

Who do you think you are? I see you time after time out here on this site challenging people as if you are some sort of tough guy. People like you who "get off" by sitting behind a computer screen in anonymity making idle threats amuse me. What is your problem. Why can't you just post your thoughts and have intelligent discussion rather than attacking people personally.

You must have been the kid that got his ass whipped over and over again in school and now you have some sort of score to settle.

Geesh!

[ShamsWoof10]

So, you are saying that the Marines were not murdered by Iranian proxy forces?.

You damn right that's what I am saying... The Mossad who have been kicking "AMERICAN and ARAB" as* were behind not only that one but the French as well... The Isreali leadership wanted everyone to get the f*ck out... This is why it is important WHO commited those massacres... The Mossad have a history of kicking AMERICAN AS* ... Look no further then the most obvious "USS Liberty"... They F*CKED THOSE SAILORS UP and attacked them for 45 minutes...

My source: the captain of the USS Liberty came to Toledo to speak about it...

Curious facts = propaganda...

I just don't understand what possible difference it makes who committed the massacres of the Palestinians which led to the US sending the Marines there to protect the Palestinians from future atrocities. Unless you are saying that the Marines were somehow culpable.

Not that I think it makes any difference to the fact that Iranian proxies murdered the Marines who were part of an international peace keeping force, but the earlier massacres in the Palestinian camps were carried out by the Phalangist militia, allies of Israel in the Lebanese civil war.

You do not have correlated thought do you..?

Did you believe Iraq had WMD's curious or not..???? What did YOUR sources tell you...???

[curious]

Who do you think you are? I see you time after time out here on this site challenging people as if you are some sort of tough guy. People like you who "get off" by sitting behind a computer screen in anonymity making idle threats amuse me. What is your problem. Why can't you just post your thoughts and have intelligent discussion rather than attacking people personally.

You must have been the kid that got his ass whipped over and over again in school and now you have some sort of score to settle.

Geesh!

These same people have continually harassed me since the day I joined this forum. I only challenge people who are harassing me. It is called standing up for yourself.

I did post my thoughts. I invited intelligent discussion. No one even referred to a single point I made, but instead resorted to name calling and insults. I simply stood up to them.

And no, I never got my back dirtied in school. Not once.

[curious]

You damn right that's what I am saying... The Mossad who have been kicking "AMERICAN and ARAB" as* were behind not only that one but the French as well... The Isreali leadership wanted everyone to get the f*ck out... This is why it is important WHO commited those massacres... The Mossad have a history of kicking AMERICAN AS* ... Look no further then the most obvious "USS Liberty"... They F*CKED THOSE SAILORS UP and attacked them for 45 minutes...

My source: the captain of the USS Liberty came to Toledo to speak about it...

Curious facts = propaganda...



You do not have correlated thought do you..?

Did you believe Iraq had WMD's curious or not..???? What did YOUR sources tell you...???

I like the way you jump around from topic to topic, but you never respond to anything specific.

So, you demanded that I tell you which group massacred the Palestinians, and I did that. Then your response was to talk about the USS Liberty and WMDs in Iraq.

I'm done talking to you.

[Dark Horse]

Anything that curious believes is fact. And if you disagree he'll be happy to beat you up.

My guess is he's going backwards, so give him a break while he's still literate.

[curious]

Anything that curious believes is fact. And if you disagree he'll be happy to beat you up.

My guess is he's going backwards, so give him a break while he's still literate.

No, I am only happy to beat up assholes that continually harass me and insult me. And you have been around here long enough to know that. So you are just taking a cheap shot by misrepresenting things.

So now I have to put you on the list of assholes that I have to beat up at the SBR Bash.

[ShamsWoof10]

1. Israel named their best air force general as head of the "Iran front" because they view Iran's continual nuclear arms program as a threat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/27/wmid27.xml

This is a website run by the owners of the highly respected
British Telegraph newspapers.

2. Israel is building a new combined arms army to be trained in asymmetric warfare. The obvious target of this army is Hezbollah and Syria.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/06/marine_israel_combattraining_070624/

I don't have a single quote that shows that Israel is building a new army. I have many quotes that show a new battalion here, a new regiment there. You add them together and they equal an army. All are specially trained in asymmetric warfare.

Assuming this is true... then so the f*ck what!!!!

Why not add more important sh*t like ...the US has two carriers in the mediterian near Lebanon... and still ...so what!

3. Iran is buying missile technology from China.

http://www.nti.org/db/china/miranpos.htm

4. Iran is pursuing nuclear technology.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/nuke/

FAS is the foundation of american scientists. Hardly a hotbed of rightwing warmongering.

Let's assume this is true... I can better answer this question if you can explain to me why it's ok for Isreal to get nukes from the U.S. along with billions of dollars each year and military hardware... I am not pro or anti Isreal I just want CURIOUS'S answer as to why it's ok in one case but not in the other case... I already know his media generated answer...

5. Israel will launch a war to prevent Iran attaining nuclear arms
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ex...itics_ZZZX.htm

So what let them do it... Keep your nose out of it and you won't have anything to worry about... If Isreal is all that and Iran ...oh how did he put it... would be done by nightfall against the US then why not let Isreal handle it... This should be a breeeze for them...

Curious your stance is far from consistant.... and GET IT STRAIGHT YOU DON'T PRESENT FACTS!!!!

I like the way you jump around from topic to topic, but you never respond to anything specific.

So, you demanded that I tell you which group massacred the Palestinians, and I did that. Then your response was to talk about the USS Liberty and WMDs in Iraq.

I'm done talking to you.

You are one STUPID F*CK who wants his d*ck stroked for spending time in Iraq... I don't support troops so you won't get that from me... I answered your question you moron... The Mossad did it you stupid f*ck... that was the answer to your question incase Gulf War Syndrome is acting up again..

[ritehook]

People in the military are brainwashed like no other.

They may be brave and what not, but brainwashed is probably the best description of the military.....

I don't think your statement is correct, BB.

The Winter Soldiers of Iraq are growing, veterans who are recounting their experiences of high-command sanctioned atrocities.

Similarly, an unusually high number of active and retired military brass have been opposed to this neocon Iraqi adventure from the get-go. Including the Admiral in charge of MIdeast CentCom until his recent forced retirement. Including General Zinni, who was accused by the neocons of "anti-semitism" due to his questioning of the lies leading up to the invasion.

One more Bush/Cheney-type national admin and we may well see a military coup in the future. "Seven Days in May" ..... and in a dying, heterogeneous empire, this time successful.

[curious]

I don't think your statement is correct, BB.

The Winter Soldiers of Iraq are growing, veterans who are recounting their experiences of high-command sanctioned atrocities.

Similarly, an unusually high number of active and retired military brass have been opposed to this neocon Iraqi adventure from the get-go. Including the Admiral in charge of MIdeast CentCom until his recent forced retirement. Including General Zinni, who was accused by the neocons of "anti-semitism" due to his questioning of the lies leading up to the invasion.

One more Bush/Cheney-type national admin and we may well see a military coup in the future. "Seven Days in May" ..... and in a dying, heterogeneous empire, this time successful.

The DemoCong pull out the "brainwashed" argument when they are in an argument they can't win because someone is trying to confuse them with facts.

I know lots of military people and all of them speak their mind.

I was vehemenently opposed to this adventure. Not because I thought deposing Sadaam was a bad idea, but because the amateurs Bush and Rumsfield sought an easy victory. The joint chiefs told Bush it would take one million troops to first topple Sadaam and then rebuild Iraq. Bush didn't want to go to the American people and make a case based on reality. Why, I am not sure. And to field a one million strong force would have required that.

The professionals in the military argued that if the US went into Iraq they would then have to take on a nation building mission, and though possible, such a mission required a huge, well planned effort.

Such an effort was never planned because the amateurs Bush and Rumsfield believed the nonsense that toppling Sadaam would cause the Iraqi people to just naturally come forth and show their love for Amerika and everything would be okay.

So, I agree with you that the adventure was ill advised the way it was entered into.

However, we cannot change that. So, the question now is, what do we do now?

There are four options:
1. Stay and help the Iraqi people build a country and an army capable of defending Iraq against its enemies both internal and external.
2. Run away and leave the Iraqi people to face the consequences.
3. Stay as an occupying power and don't worry about what the Iraqi gov't does or does not do.
4. Realize that the Iraqis will never build a functioning government or a functioning army and come up with some way to salvage the situation.

The DemoCong want to do option 2.

Those of us who are unwilling to abandon the Iraqi people to their enemies want to do option 1.

Yes, the amateurs Bush and Rumsfield created this mess, but running away and leaving the Iraqi people to face the consequences is both immoral and a political blunder of enormous consequences. But, I never hear the "run away" crows discuss the consequences.

[ritehook]

Would like to ask curious (a)if you believe that during the Six Day War the attack on the USS Liberty, an American spyship in international waters was, as Israel claims, "a mistake." Or as Dean Rusk, Admiral Moorer, former Sen Adlai Stevenson III, and vitually all the members of the Liberty crew (including Jewish ones) believe that the attack was deliberate and with malice aforethought?

(b) That we should be giving over 3 billion a year to a very prosperous First World country, with the fourth most powerful army in the world (with over 200,not 65) nuclear warheads? A country that supplies arms to much of the world, including to Mugabe, the dictator of Zimbabwe? (They are just about his only armorer.)

(c) That the Israel Lobby does not have veto power over every decision of importance made by the US Congress? That their chief lobby group, AIPAC, does not exercise more control over the US Senate and House than, say, agribusinss, insurance companies, drug companies, the medical industry et al?

[Kerfuffle]

(b) That we should be giving over 3 billion a year to a very prosperous First World country, with the fourth most powerful army in the world (with over 200,not 65) nuclear warheads? ?

Most of US aid to Israel is military/defense.
Most of that is to purchase weapons.
Most of those weapons MUST be bought from U.S. companies.

Much of US militrary aid to Israel is really a glorified subsidy to McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed, Boeing, Raytheon, etc

[curious]

Would like to ask curious (a)if you believe that during the Six Day War the attack on the USS Liberty, an American spyship in international waters was, as Israel claims, "a mistake." Or as Dean Rusk, Admiral Moorer, former Sen Adlai Stevenson III, and vitually all the members of the Liberty crew (including Jewish ones) believe that the attack was deliberate and with malice aforethought?

(b) That we should be giving over 3 billion a year to a very prosperous First World country, with the fourth most powerful army in the world (with over 200,not 65) nuclear warheads? A country that supplies arms to much of the world, including to Mugabe, the dictator of Zimbabwe? (They are just about his only armorer.)

(c) That the Israel Lobby does not have veto power over every decision of importance made by the US Congress? That their chief lobby group, AIPAC, does not exercise more control over the US Senate and House than, say, agribusinss, insurance companies, drug companies, the medical industry et al?

a) Having been a patient in an Israeli military hospital and having met many members of the Israeli military, I find it hard to believe that the attack was deliberate. I know the procedures that the US military has to go through to fire a weapon at a sea going vessel, the Israelis follow similar procedures. Misidentifying a ship at sea? Perhaps. However, having been aboard US Navy vessels, I find it hard to believe that the sailors are lying. So, I researched this incident. The Israelis claim that they mistook the Liberty for an Egyptian ship, El Quseir. The ships look nothing alike and the El Quseir is 1/2 the length and 1/4 the tonnage of the Liberty. After reading all the testimony, I have to conclude that this was a deliberate attack. The most damming evidence is that the Israelis used unmarked aircraft. That is the smoking gun.

b) I have long thought we should cut off aid to Israel. Mainly because it would force Israel to develop closer economic ties with its neighbors.

c) This is a harder one to swallow. Legislation that makes it through Congress does so because enough congressmen were bought off with favors for things they want, favors that will be cashed in later on. Whoever yields the most influence in terms of being able to delver on promises gets things done. Yes, the Israeli lobby is powerful. Are they all powerful? I have to say no to that one.

This question was phrased in a very biased way. If you instead asked "Does the Israel Lobby wield undo influence in Congress"? I would say yes they do. But TOTAL power? No, I do not believe that.
------------------------------------------

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my point that Iran is taking actions which make Israel believe that Israel's survival as a nation is at stake and Israel will destroy Iran before they let Iran destroy them first.

[ShamsWoof10]

a) Having been a patient in an Israeli military hospital and having met many members of the Israeli military, I find it hard to believe that the attack was deliberate. I know the procedures that the US military has to go through to fire a weapon at a sea going vessel, the Israelis follow similar procedures. Misidentifying a ship at sea? Perhaps. However, having been aboard US Navy vessels, I find it hard to believe that the sailors are lying. So, I researched this incident. The Israelis claim that they mistook the Liberty for an Egyptian ship, El Quseir. The ships look nothing alike and the El Quseir is 1/2 the length and 1/4 the tonnage of the Liberty. After reading all the testimony, I have to conclude that this was a deliberate attack. The most damming evidence is that the Israelis used unmarked aircraft. That is the smoking gun.

I know you believe it was deliberate but you found it hard to believe because of people you met 30 years after that attack..?

My point to bring that up was there is a history of them using Americans as target practice... Arial Sharon in 02' told Perz "don't tell me about American power ...we control the American people and they know it.."

Arial Sharon WOOOOFED !!!

You see... America is the land of the b*tches... Isreal bip slaps the US when they feel like it and say "It's regretable".. hahaha I love that line... They use that f*ckin' line so much it's unreal...hahaha "it's regretable" WTF!

[pavyracer]

The Israel army without any aid from the US can't beat Iran's army. I don't think they can commit more that 2-3 divisions to attack Iran otherwise they will leave their borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt unguarded and the civilian population will be massacred by terrorists. Most of the Israel army are reservists and not hardened soldiers and their inexperience was evident at the Hezbollah war of two summers ago where they couldn't resupply their front lines only 50 miles from the Israel border. There navy can't attack Iran. Most of their navy is harbored in the Mediterranean and Egypt will not allow to cross Suez canal without being destroyed. They will have to go all the way around Africa to attack Iran taking them months if they were ever able to navigate on their own.

So the idiots that claim that Israel will declare war to Iran have to come up with a plan to convince me that 2-3 Israel divisions will be magically transported to the Iran border to face more than 20 Iran divisions and completely annihilate them and return back to Israel. Saddam was fighting Iran for 8 years and couldn't gain a square mile of Iranian territory with all his mighty army.

This arguement by curious about Israel attacking Iran runs only second to his claim of the destruction of an Iraq army brigade by a single human being.

[ritehook]

2. Run away and leave the Iraqi people to face the consequences

Geez, I guess I must be Demo-Cong because I believe this to be the best option.

We will never be able to impose a US type democracy on that land. The jokers sitting safely in the Green Zone are simply hijuacking that naiton's treasury. What was behind the "Iraqi govertment's" recent move on Basra, with rakeoffs and protection rackets taking in many millions a year - Basra is Iraq's chief port for oil exports - was who was going to control the rackets, the US puppet govt or the Shia militias.

Every single poll done of the Iraqi population - even that doen by the Zogby Poll, the chiel pollster for the GOP - has told us that an overwhelming number (80 to 90%) of the people want their country rid of two entities: the United States --- and Al Queda.

Once we get out, Iraq will get rid of Al Queda, the foreigners there to kill Americans. Saddam hated bin Laden and Al Queda.

There won't be much ethnic cleansing --- most of that has already taken place, right under the noses of the the Americans.

There will almost certainly be sporadic levels of violence, but not likely anyting more than in other coutnries we often support. Eventually a Strong Man will emerge. Possibly Al Sadr, who may get some support from Iran but is actually an Iraqi nationalist as well as a devout Muslim.

If Isreal wants to "secure the realm" by policing Iraq let them send their own soldiers in.

[curious]

The Israel army without any aid from the US can't beat Iran's army. I don't think they can commit more that 2-3 divisions to attack Iran otherwise they will their borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt unguarded and the civilian population will be massacred by terrorists. Most of the Israel army are reservists and not hardened soldiers and their inexperience was evident at the Hezbollah war of two summers ago where they couldn't resupply their front lines only 50 miles from the Israel border. There navy can't attack Iran. Most of their navy is harbored in the Mediterranean and Egypt will not allow to cross Suez canal without being destroyed. They will have to go all the way around Africa to attack Iran taking them months if they were ever able to navigate on their own.

So the idiots that claim that Israel will declare war to Iran have to come up with a plan to convince me that 2-3 Israel Divisions will be magically transported to the Iran border to face more than 20 Iran divisions and complete annihilate them and return back to Israel. Saddam was fighting Iran for 8 years and couldn't gain a square mile of Iranian territory with all his mighty army.

This arguement by curious about Israel attacking Iran runs only second to his claim of the destruction of an Iraq army brigade by a single human being.

You are an imbecile and a liar. Israel will not attack Iran with armies they will attack them with air power, and if need be tactical nuclear weapons. Which is why they named an AIR FORCE general as head of the Iran Front.

The new army they are building is for Syria.

I never claimed destruction of an Iraq army brigade by a single human being. I said that me and the unit I was attached to gave an armored brigade a bad day. And since I was wounded in that engagement by a missile strike that went off nearby, you might (if you could actually read) assume that we had air support, which is why we were able to give them a bad day.

How many times are you going to repeat this lie so that you can insult me and discredit my service to my country liar?

Please tell me you are coming to the SBR bash liar. I really would like for you to discredit my service to my country to my face.

[ritehook]

Most of US aid to Israel is military/defense.
Most of that is to purchase weapons.
Most of those weapons MUST be bought from U.S. companies.

Much of US militrary aid to Israel is really a glorified subsidy to McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed, Boeing, Raytheon, etc

Israel has their own very viable defense industy. You've heard of Uzis, no doubt.

American police forces have also purchased weapons from Israel.

And if Israel is a big arms exporter, and they are, why should we be giving then all that weaponry?

The money they save in developing thier own arms goes to support the defacto aparthied in that state.

Coulnd't have anything to do with the fact that a potent single issue Lobby scares the shit out of virtually every national US politician? That when a guy announces he will run for senator or governor in states like NY or NJ the first thing he does is to go hat-in-hand to Israel?

Nah! That just anti-semitic paranoia . . .

[curious]

2. Run away and leave the Iraqi people to face the consequences

Geez, I guess I must be Demo-Cong because I believe this to be the best option.

We will never be able to impose a US type democracy on that land. The jokers sitting safely in the Green Zone are simply hijuacking that naiton's treasury. What was behind the "Iraqi govertment's" recent move on Basra, with rakeoffs and protection rackets taking in many millions a year - Basra is Iraq's chief port for oil exports - was who was going to control the rackets, the US puppet govt or the Shia militias.

Every single poll done of the Iraqi population - even that doen by the Zogby Poll, the chiel pollster for the GOP - has told us that an overwhelming number (80 to 90%) of the people want their country rid of two entities: the United States --- and Al Queda.

Once we get out, Iraq will get rid of Al Queda, the foreigners there to kill Americans. Saddam hated bin Laden and Al Queda.

There won't be much ethnic cleansing --- most of that has already taken place, right under the noses of the the Americans.

There will almost certainly be sporadic levels of violence, but not likely anyting more than in other coutnries we often support. Eventually a Strong Man will emerge. Possibly Al Sadr, who may get some support from Iran but is actually an Iraqi nationalist as well as a devout Muslim.

If Isreal wants to "secure the realm" by policing Iraq let them send their own soldiers in.

The DemoCong said the same thing in 1975 when they cut off aid to South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.

You really believe this?

What you are saying is that Iraq will be in a better position to defeat al-Qaeda, the Iranian backed militias, and Iran's special forces without American help.

I wish you were right. I wish that we could get out of Iraq tomorrow without causing nightmarish consequences.

[ShamsWoof10]

Israel has their own very viable defense industy. You've heard of Uzis, no doubt.

American police forces have also purchased weapons from Israel.

And if Israel is a big arms exporter, and they are, why should we be giving then all that weaponry?

The money they save in developing thier own arms goes to support the defacto aparthied in that state.

Coulnd't have anything to do with the fact that a potent single issue Lobby scares the shit out of virtually every national US politician? That when a guy announces he will run for senator or governor in states like NY or NJ the first thing he does is to go hat-in-hand to Israel?

Nah! That just anti-semitic paranoia . . .

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even have "Demona" to boot...

[pavyracer]

This is another stupid arguement. Israel's airforce can't attack Iran effectively due to lack of bombers. You can't attack a country that is 1000 miles away with F-16's dumbass carrying only two 500 lb conventional bombs.

If they attack with nuclear weapons unprovoked that will be the end of Israel as we know it now. Imagine 100,000 suicide bombers crossing the Israel border simultaneously from 4 hostile Arab countries and massacring the civilian population.

Putting an airforce general in charge does not mean you can attack a country by air and win a war. The russian made S-300 anticraft missiles Iran possesses are no match for the Israel F-16's. They can lock and destroy an aircraft from 100 miles apart. An S-300 missile brought down a stealth bomber during the campaign against Serbia in 1999 and was never revealed into the american public yet. Get your facts together because you sound naive and ignorant about military related matters.

[curious]

This is another stupid arguement. Israel's airforce can't attack Iran effectively due to lack of bombers. You can't attack a country that is 1000 miles away with F-16's dumbass carrying only two 500 lb conventional bombs.

If they attack with nuclear weapons unprovoked that will be the end of Israel as we know it now. Imagine 100,000 suicide bombers crossing the Israel border simultaneously from 4 hostile Arab countries and massacring the civilian population.

Putting an airforce general in charge does not mean you can attack a country by air and win a war. The russian made S-300 anticraft missiles Iran possesses are no match for the Israel F-16's. They can lock and destroy an aircraft from 100 miles apart. An S-300 missile brought down a stealth bomber during the campaign against Serbia in 1999 and was never revealed into the american public yet. Get your facts together because you sound naive and ignorant about military related matters.

Really? The Syrians have the same air defense system and Israel knocked out one of their offensive missile sites before the Syrians even knew they were being attacked. Seems to me that was a trial run against the EXACT SAME technology being deployed in Iran. Try to do some reading, the Balkan war has been over for several years now.