Changes to the SBR point system: Effective Feb 15

[Thremp]

I would like to take even money action that SBR will coverup and/or outright lie/ban/do anything to keep this undercover.

Only with SBR points (which apparently are the same as Cascade dollars).

[trixtrix]

he can pm me via other means or other foras, np

[sideloaded]

It's funny more and more SBR sounds like the books they review.

[BigDaddy]

now i can see why he would call justin a hypocrite

if memory serves me correctly i dont think justin would side with the book if all that was done was open another account to circumvent limits

again this is just speculation

[sportsfanatic]

IMO going forward we need separation. 1 contest where only pros can enter to win sportsbook money. 1 contest where nonpros enter to win points.

2BTP's
2Moneyball Shootouts
2NCAA Bracket Contest

THIS! x100000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000

[Bartmeister]

now i can see why he would call justin a hypocrite

if memory serves me correctly i dont think justin would side with the book if all that was done was open another account to circumvent limits

again this is just speculation

Also, I think by calling him a hypocrite could also mean how Justin7 advocates taking advantage of correlated parlays, but probably totally against it in the SBR Book?

[BigDaddy]

Also, I think by calling him a hypocrite could also mean how Justin7 advocates taking advantage of correlated parlays, but probably totally against it in the SBR Book?

yes

the shoe is on the other foot now.

[sideloaded]

Justin7 doesn't condone scamming in any way. Opening two accounts to circumvent limits is clearly fraud.

[BigDaddy]

from what lou stated saying he would have been paid leads me to believe it is not from some glitch where transfering points earned him points that were not his.

otherwise they would for sure 100% be able to confiscate those as that would be outright theft.

[RudyRuetigger]

it happened in the summer so it has to do with baseball. did he parlay ML and RL???

[BigDaddy]

Justin7 doesn't condone scamming in anyway. Opening two accounts to circumvent limits is clearly fraud.

i dont think he would rule in the books favor to take all funds from both accounts.

maybe someone could find an old case and prove that point.

[trixtrix]

unwarranted speculation is pointless and counter-productive at this pt, no pt in putting the carriage before the horse, in any argument you need to hear both sides of the story first

[BigDaddy]

unwarranted speculation is pointless and counter-productive at this pt, no pt in putting the carriage before the horse, in any argument you need to hear both sides of the story first

agree


but with lou coming out and saying he would have been paid if he just wouldn't have opened another account speaks volumes.

[Bartmeister]

If circumventing limits was allowed, Trix would have over 300K in points by now, lol.

[RudyRuetigger]

didnt SBR say they were looking for posters to head up a security type thing with the points

[milwaukee mike]

lol at the pissing contest, in case you have not noticed, i have been trying to defend myself against his personal attacks the whole time. aceking is inconsequential to me, and no i'm not interested in further dialog w/ him if he replied in kind. and if you followed the history of our posts you can obv see that. and that's what all the rest of the posters sees as well.

the only thing that "mattered" personally to me was aceking advocating that books steals from its winners as a recourse, a truly disgusting position to take.

obv i don't feel guilty and neither does sbr. yet for some reason, aceking is obsessed w/ me.

if you do a search on sbr's front page on wagerweb (2009) and sportsbook.com (2007) you will see exactly the history of thefts and sbr's response to them. both scumbag sites stole the funds and refused to abide by sbr's ruling which caused their ratings to go down as a result.

great answer thanks, i agree sportsbook.com has always been a shit book but i liked wagerweb back in the day

if he is completely inconsequential then try to ignore him (i know it's difficult)

[SBR_John]

didnt SBR say they were looking for posters to head up a security type thing with the points

This was one of many scammers. We had some glitches where guys could transfer,close a browser then open a new browser and transfer again before the database had time to complete the transaction and just plain ole glitches in the wallet. Scammers like this guy and others have helped us find them.

For now I think between policy and software solutions along with our staff we are in much better shape. Limiting the ability for non Pro's to transfer is where nearly all the problems pass through, like the Suez Canal. Limiting the non Pro's ability to dump points into a "friends" account will greatly help.

[BigDaddy]

This was one of many scammers. We had some glitches where guys could transfer,close a browser then open a new browser and transfer again before the database had time to complete the transaction and just plain ole glitches in the wallet. Scammers like this guy and others have helped us find them.

and yet you were still going to pay him if he wouldn't have opened up another account???

i would have told him to take a hike if thats what he really did

as that is just outright theft.

[ThaddeusB]

I think more correctly we wanted to even the playing field. SBR pays for everything and then lets a forum bookie with zero costs come in and book points way lower than the book at SBR???....now I'm not a Wharton School of Business graduate but the teeter-totter seemed a little stuck under that model. I'm not totally opposed to looking at the transfer fee but I am opposed to not being able to compete with the booking part of the points program. If we turned back time and allowed the cut rate forum bookies, something would have to give to replace the points SBR earns off the sportsbook operation. So if we rolled back that fee it would be offset with a large jump in store prices or a cut in the amount of points awarded daily or a combination thereof. This may fall under the category of be careful what you wish for.

If SBR doesn't like the idea of people booking bets (and I understand why you might not like this), then why not just outlaw points books? Raking every transaction penalizes not just booking bets, but also loaning and gifting as well. (Of course maybe you guys really want to penalize all P-2-P transactions and not just booking, in which case a rake makes sense.) It especially doesn't make any sense (to me any way) to be charged for giving points. Maybe charge the recipient 2% if you want to keep the fee the same.

[sideloaded]

If SBR doesn't like the idea of people booking bets (and I understand why you might not like this), then why not just outlaw points books? Raking every transaction penalizes not just booking bets, but also loaning and gifting as well. (Of course maybe you guys really want to penalize all P-2-P transactions and not just booking, in which case a rake makes sense.) It especially doesn't make any sense (to me any way) to be charged for giving points. Maybe charge the recipient 2% if you want to keep the fee the same.

Thad you're done.

[SBR_John]

If SBR doesn't like the idea of people booking bets (and I understand why you might not like this), then why not just outlaw points books? Raking every transaction penalizes not just booking bets, but also loaning and gifting as well. (Of course maybe you guys really want to penalize all P-2-P transactions and not just booking, in which case a rake makes sense.) It especially doesn't make any sense (to me any way) to be charged for giving points. Maybe charge the recipient 2% if you want to keep the fee the same.

As I said I am not opposed to looking at this from all angles especially factoring in the drop off in abuse we should see when the Feb 15 rules go into effect. Its possibly not easy to just tax forum bookies. Some things that sound good in theory can be cumbersome, difficult or too labor intensive to implement. But yes, we do not want to penalize much of the activity you mentioned so we are open to a better solution.

[sportsfanatic]

This was one of many scammers. We had some glitches where guys could transfer,close a browser then open a new browser and transfer again before the database had time to complete the transaction and just plain ole glitches in the wallet. Scammers like this guy and others have helped us find them.

For now I think between policy and software solutions along with our staff we are in much better shape. Limiting the ability for non Pro's to transfer is where nearly all the problems pass through, like the Suez Canal. Limiting the non Pro's ability to dump points into a "friends" account will greatly help.

interesting...

surprised sbr took so long to even come up with the idea of limiting transfers for non-pros if stuff like this was what was happening behind the scenes.

[ThaddeusB]

As I said I am not opposed to looking at this from all angles especially factoring in the drop off in abuse we should see when the Feb 15 rules go into effect. Its possibly not easy to just tax forum bookies. Some things that sound good in theory can be cumbersome, difficult or too labor intensive to implement. But yes, we do not want to penalize much of the activity you mentioned so we are open to a better solution.

Yah, I understand just taxing booking would be very difficult. I was suggesting maybe just saying it was not allowed to take place at all. Of course that could potentially apply to "special lines" and other clearly just for fun activity as well, so yeah its difficult. Obviously I am affected no matter what the rule is since I participate in a variety of activity currently, but it just seems unfair to tax someone for giving away points to good handicappers and what not. That is why I suggested 2% rake on receiving and 0% on giving as a possibility (this scheme would presumably increase my personal tax, incidentally.)

On an unrelated note, are signatures coming back? In the other post you said they are being "redesigned" and I asked if that was just a fancy way of saying they are gone but got no reply.

Thanks,
Thaddeus

P.S. It is really cool that you communicate with us posters directly. I don't know of very many places where the owner communicates directlt with customers.

[easywinner]

As a new guy myself that only recently found this site and joined less than 2 months ago, i can say that i like it and i enjoy the discussions that occur about sports, handicapping, betting, strategies, money management, casinos, sportsbooks and anything similarly related.

I think this thread would have been a lot more helpful if some of you "veterans" that have been members for years would have left your bias and personal grudges out so that people like me wouldn't have had to read through pages of meaningless banter back and forth over situations that occurred in the past. There are 14 pages in this thread and about half of them actually have important info related to the original post.

I also feel discriminated against by those that are suggesting post minimums to be able to take part in forum activities or restrictions on being able to bet in the sbr book with my points since i am new. You weren't subjected to this when you were new or at least if you were, I've never seen anyone talk about it, so why should current newbies be subjected to this?

Final point, i would already be a "sbr pro" if i would have found this site 2 months before i did. I always deposit at my online books right before football season and i don't re-up or make any more deposits if i need to again until next season no matter what happens, win, loss, draw. It's how i keep myself in check. So I'll have to wait until next fall before i can become a sbr pro and i shouldn't discriminated against for this. Now as far as the points i agree with those that say that they are in a way free bonus so i don't have any problems with the increase in prices or the amount that can be transferred between members because i don't even understand why someone would need to transfer points in the first place unless it was to pay up on a lost bet.

Now to my questions.
1. How do you get to take part in all of these activities i hear talk about like the poker, trivia, contests etc.? I don't remember ever getting the heads up on any of this stuff when i joined. The only reason i even know about the points system is because i read a really long thread on it that i stumbled upon.

2. Why do people talk about loaning points and such? I don't understand why anyone would need a loan of sbr points, especially since it appears that there is fraud involved in cases. I know i would never ask anyone for a point loan or money loan for that matter, so why do other people?

That's all i've got for now. Take care.

[ThaddeusB]

now i can see why he would call justin a hypocrite

if memory serves me correctly i dont think justin would side with the book if all that was done was open another account to circumvent limits

again this is just speculation

I am pretty sure that Justin has supported books confiscating balances (or at least profits) for multi-accounting, provided the book's rules clearly prevented it. The problem is when someone gets caught, but the rules didn't clearly prevent multiple people form the same household or such.

IMO, If you break the rules you can't expect to keep your profits, even if the profits were not directly related to the rule that was broken.

[RudyRuetigger]

I think this thread would have been a lot more helpful if some of you "veterans" that have been members for years would have left your bias and personal grudges out so that people like me wouldn't have had to read through pages of meaningless banter back and forth over situations that occurred in the past. There are 14 pages in this thread and about half of them actually have important info related to the original post.

did you not just read what John wrote? He is open to ideas. Discussions about the past are important to know where to go in the future.

Final point, i would already be a "sbr pro" if i would have found this site 2 months before i did. I always deposit at my online books right before football season and i don't re-up or make any more deposits if i need to again until next season no matter what happens, win, loss, draw. It's how i keep myself in check. So I'll have to wait until next fall before i can become a sbr pro and i shouldn't discriminated against for this.

it doesnt matter when you deposited. if you have 200 in your account now from deposit money only, you are eligible to be a pro. and yes, you should be discriminated against for not being a pro. where do you think sbr gets the money to hold contests and give points? Its from people signing up and depositing with their books using SBR links. If you are not a pro and enter contests, you are taking money away from people that do deposit

i mentioned some non sbr pros earlier that im sure easily could be a pro, but dont want to have online accts, dont care about points and dont care about sbr contests. my statements have nothing to do with them because they dont want any part of sbrs incentives. its for those non pros that enter every fukkin contest with a "guarantee" payout and take money out of the winners pockets because they didnt deposit

[Grux]

You seem like a pretty good handicapper which is who the points are for. Surely you can understand the the book's who pay for this aren't in the business of feeding all who sign up free pizza and need to know they are supporting active players. To compare sportsbooks with our free (and volunteer) rewards here doesn't make sense.

Congrats on your BTP prize money!

I couldn't agree more Bill.

[trixtrix]

I also feel discriminated against by those that are suggesting post minimums to be able to take part in forum activities or restrictions on being able to bet in the sbr book with my points since i am new. You weren't subjected to this when you were new or at least if you were, I've never seen anyone talk about it, so why should current newbies be subjected to this?

2. Why do people talk about loaning points and such? I don't understand why anyone would need a loan of sbr points, especially since it appears that there is fraud involved in cases. I know i would never ask anyone for a point loan or money loan for that matter, so why do other people?

the concept of sbr pts have only been around for a year or so, so no one is being discriminated against as the multi-year vets don't really have an advantage of a one year old newbie. regardless, the changes are taking place in feb 2011 so what's the problem, you aren't being discriminated against now.

people ask for loans the same way people ask for cash advances on their credit cards, it might not be for everyone but you should not discriminate against it the same way you don't want sbr to discriminate against noobs.

i only find it funny when someone who have borrowed and spent 4k+ pts is complaining that someone have spent 1k+ pts and have never borrowed is circumventing the system.

but whether someone deciding whether or not to ask for a loan is their own business, as is the right of someone who refuses to loan out.

[easywinner]

did you not just read what John wrote? He is open to ideas. Discussions about the past are important to know where to go in the future.

Who is John? You seem to assume a lot of things, like someone that just joined knows everyones name. Way to be nice and hospitable to a new forum member. It's people like you that likely cost this forum members by being confrontational and hostile toward new members.


it doesn't matter when you deposited. if you have 200 in your account now from deposit money only, you are eligible to be a pro. and yes, you should be discriminated against for not being a pro. where do you think sbr gets the money to hold contests and give points? Its from people signing up and depositing with their books using SBR links. If you are not a pro and enter contests, you are taking money away from people that do deposit

I'm already a member at all of the books i want to be some listed on the sbr banner, i signed up long before i found sbr and i only deposit 1 time per year before football starts.

Last point you didn't answer any of my questions and only added to the banter in this thread. Awesome.
I'll give 30 points to the first "non-pro" member that answers my questions. You like to discriminate, so do I.

[trixtrix]

easy winner, being pro have nothing with when you have deposited. the question is do you have a book balance >= 200$ at any of sbr recommended books CURRENTLY, that's the only qualification. how does that qualification discriminate against anyone?

[easywinner]

the concept of sbr pts have only been around for a year or so, so no one is being discriminated against as the multi-year vets don't really have an advantage of a one year old newbie. regardless, the changes are taking place in feb 2011 so what's the problem, you aren't being discriminated against now.

people ask for loans the same way people ask for cash advances on their credit cards, it might not be for everyone but you should not discriminate against it the same way you don't want sbr to discriminate against noobs.

i only find it funny when someone who have borrowed and spent 4k+ pts is complaining that someone have spent 1k+ pts and have never borrowed is circumventing the system.

but whether someone deciding whether or not to ask for a loan is their own business, as is the right of someone who refuses to loan out.

I'm not talking about discrimination over points. I could care less about points and who gets how many. I'm talking about how other people earlier in the thread were suggesting that non-pros shouldn't be allowed in forum activities like poker, trivia, the sportbooks etc.

I get how people get loans, what i don't get is why people ask for them? Are there really that big of addicts out there that they have to be fronted sbr points to be able to get their fix on a bowl game?

Imo transfer of points between players shouldn't even be allowed as there is no need for it. Only admins should be allowed to give member person to person transfers, no one else. There's no need for it and it seems to be the root of the evil that allows people to fraud.

[trixtrix]

I'm not talking about discrimination over points. I could care less about points and who gets how many. I'm talking about how other people earlier in the thread were suggesting that non-pros shouldn't be allowed in forum activities like poker, trivia, the sportbooks etc.

I get how people get loans, what i don't get is why people ask for them? Are there really that big of addicts out there that they have to be fronted sbr points to be able to get their fix on a bowl game?

Imo transfer of points between players shouldn't even be allowed as there is no need for it. Only admins should be allowed to give member person to person transfers, no one else. There's no need for it and it seems to be the root of the evil that allows people to fraud.

then state your position, instead of complaining about discrimination. your position is non-pros should enjoy same benefits as pros and sbr should eliminate transfers, position duly noted.

does not mean you're being discriminated against or that people are wrong to ask for loans though, you can just ignore them if they get on your nerves

[nobs]

Love it.

Thanks for the advance notice and you should just actually boot all the non -pros.

Limit the non pros to just a few items for sale in the store.

#1. $10 free account with 35 time rollover. Max cashout will be $50. Cost = 15,000 SBR Points.

#2. 1 Condom. Cost = 20,000 SBR Points.

#3. $5 Wal Mart Gift Card. Cost = 40,000 SBR Points.

Fuk the non pros. These are clearly losers who dont even gamble just looking for something free.

[easywinner]

easy winner, being pro have nothing with when you have deposited. the question is do you have a book balance >= 200$ at any of sbr recommended books CURRENTLY, that's the only qualification. how does that qualification discriminate against anyone?

You don't understand what i am saying. My point about discrimination had nothing to do with points or with online books. It had to do with forum activities. Unfortunately for me i don't have the deposit requirement right now on any of sbr sponsored books. I've either withdrawn or lost my deposit already at the 2 books i play with that are sbr sponsored. It's no big deal to me i will get the sbr pro status when i deposit again next season. That's not what my points were.

[easywinner]

then state your position, instead of complaining about discrimination. your position is non-pros should enjoy same benefits as pros and sbr should eliminate transfers, position duly noted.

does not mean you're being discriminated against or that people are wrong to ask for loans though, you can just ignore them if they get on your nerves

I've stated my position. You cannot read or you must be extremely unintelligent if you didn't understand what i wrote. Do you know that YOU are single handedly responsible for about 5 pages of BS in this thread, where people have had to restate their points because you twist their words around.