Avoid Wagerweb

[Halifax]

Surely I'm not the only one that thinks that 'eric dy' is actually the player involved in this Wagerweb dispute ?

[Lucas]

Surely I'm not the only one that thinks that 'eric dy' is actually the player involved in this Wagerweb dispute ?

[eric dy]

Does anyone at SBR have an update on this situation? Did WagerWeb pay this player?

[robmpink]

Does anyone at SBR have an update on this situation? Did WagerWeb pay this player?

I mentioned earlier it must be the player's crack dealer. He really is a moron. What update do you want? Put 2 and 2 together. Wagerweb isn't paying him. That is why SBR downgraded them. That and the fact that WW doesn't pay them hush money like a lot of books.
There is your update. Write the UN and tell them how outlandish WW is. Maybe all of your complaining will pressure SBR to knock them down to a D-. Give it up. Your bitching is getting you or your customer(player) nowhere now.

[eric dy]

Rob, what is your position at WagerWeb?

I would like to hear this from SBR versus from you. If this is true, it is very sad.......

[robmpink]

Rob, what is your position at WagerWeb?

I would like to hear this from SBR versus from you. If this is true, it is very sad.......

C'mon man! Stop making me laugh. Look at the facts, 99% of your posts are about the wagerweb situation. You asked what is going on and I told you. I did this because you have a learning disability and it is hard for you to connect the dots. Are you trying to get your post total up for BTP? That is Beat the Prick since you have a hard time equating things. Face it, you won't be getting your money for X-mas.

[bigboydan]

I know some of you old schoolers might remember a similar case to this one we have here. This particular dispute I'm referring to happened about 4 or 5 years ago at the old Gamblers Avenue while it was under Freddy and Mike Silver's management.

Anyways, Freddy called out the shot taker over at the O.G.D, but he couldn't figure out how the gentlemen was cheating. Then one day he caught the guy and cut him off, payed him, and then showed him the door. The problem is that after searching the site for hours last night, I can't find the damn thread about it.

Halifax, Raiders, Slash I'm sure you guys probably remember this case. Because you guys were regulars over there during that time period.

[BigBollocks]

Totally disagree with you BigB........not even going to comment. If you don't like SBR, get off the site.....go over to WagerWeb and chat with them.

Of course you disagree me with Eric, considering you are the player in question or represent the player in question. Even Justin (arguably the most diligent and fair investigator on this site) ruled in favor of WW.

As for who has contributed more on this site, you REALLY don't want to go there with me. The only reason you're even here is to protect your own shot taking interests...

[eric dy]

Take a look at the 148 threads - the majority of people agree that WAGERWEB is wrong and the player is right.

I believe Bill Dozer runs SBR - did you read his posts????

[magnavox]

Take a look at the 148 threads - the majority of people agree that WAGERWEB is wrong and the player is right.

I believe Bill Dozer runs SBR - did you read his posts????

From what I read I'd have doubts to call it a majority.

Bill has the right to make his own conclusions, but it is himself who stated on many occasions that they can change. I believe it's gotten a little personal here, as WW apparently promised to get back to him on friday and didn't. We were also supposed to hear about other WW cases today.

I would agree with SBR John (after all, he is the main guy in here), that this downgrade (almost a full grade) was probably uncalled for.

In the other thread John proposed to review all bets in question and grade them fairly. Past-posting isn't a black-and-white term. I wouldn't call a 30 second past-post unfair. In my opinion common sense in gradng those wagers should prevail. I guess WW is all for it.

[Bill Dozer]

Eric probably isn't doing anything to help his friend in the court of public opinion. But this isn't entirely about this particular player or his character.

There were complaints a few years back from BetOnUSA players. BetOnUSA had a rule that if the player past-posts in live betting (their assessment) he forfeits his entire balance. If the player had just deposited, but was up more on the account, they kept that deposit.

No one is suggesting Wagerweb baited the player or knew that this particular player got these bets in. We do know WW is not oblivious to the fact that at least some bets come in this late. Low paid clerks, glitches or sick wagering managers, you still can look back and see tickets taken minutes after lines come OTB.

SBR and I turn many fraudsters away who try to leverage SBR to make their case. But allowing the book to hand out fines and penalties is dangerous and the attitude SB, BOS and SBG have.

Wagerweb has a lot of holes but has been saved by greedy players who are eventually caught violating a rule. Justin's last involved Wagerweb dispute was in the neighborhood of 300k due to a promotion that equated to free-money. Had the players not bet same games at friends homes they would no doubt have 6 figures between them.

Eric's friend here got greedy as well and pushed it to the limit. Had he settled for the coin flips and initial drives, he may have eventually won the same amount with a smaller but inoffensive advantage.

I think a top book would and has honored a past posted bet, even with a score, if they don't catch it in a reasonable time. I liked John's suggestion of regrading and suggested something to that effect to Wagerweb for games with scores. They said our points were valid and suggested they would come back with a settlement before switching gears.

Allowing the player to make egregious past-posts should not allow any book the right to erase the rest of their poor bookmaking.

[bigloser]

From Budins book

" I remember walking into the pits on most Sundaysand allowing clerks on my regular lines to take bets under $1000 until 1.15pm a good 15 minutes after the game had started. It didnt matter - do you think my clients had the advantage?"


and

"Nobody ever took bets until 1.15pm before, but for me it was a no brainer on the books and a special accomodation to the clients who were all SUCKERS and couldnt win even if we let them bet in the second quarter"

Wagerweb knew what they were doing, unfortunately one of their players wasnt a sucker.

They should pay or be downgraded further

[magnavox]

What some local says should not make the judgement in this case. It's totally different offshore. Even today one can find such good lines with their locals, that most offshore books would deem it as a bad line.

[Bill Dozer]

I am still hopeful Wagerweb will take part in a resolution and continue to discuss with them.

[bigloser]

What some local says should not make the judgement in this case. It's totally different offshore. Even today one can find such good lines with their locals, that most offshore books would deem it as a bad line.

Budin was not a local. He was offshore.

[Dark Horse]

Of course you disagree me with Eric, considering you are the player in question or represent the player in question. Even Justin (arguably the most diligent and fair investigator on this site) ruled in favor of WW.

And Justin seems to have been the only one on the team. Meanwhile, you open a separate thread about basically the same topic. So what is your agenda?

[magnavox]

Budin was not a local. He was offshore.

Correct. I just went straight to what was quoted in your post, which looked like a typical local op to me.

But then again, you are giving an example how... SBG Global operates? You sure he paid all winners? He's a crook who doesn't even pay the squares.

[bigboydan]

I am still hopeful Wagerweb will take part in a resolution and continue to discuss with them.

They really need to reach some type of solution to this problem, because clearly it was their own fault for letting it happen in the first place.

[robmpink]

They really need to reach some type of solution to this problem, because clearly it was their own fault for letting it happen in the first place.

Question here. WW was downgraded to a C. Why would they now go back and pay this guy? The only reason would be to possibly get their rating back up to B-. If they did pay, would you put them back at B- right after they settled?

[bigboydan]

Question here. WW was downgraded to a C. Why would they now go back and pay this guy? The only reason would be to possibly get their rating back up to B-. If they did pay, would you put them back at B- right after they settled?

It's a good question, the problem is that I can't answer it. I have nothing to do with the SBR ratings at all. However, IMO I feel if they were to make things right and pay this gentlemen his winnings on this complaint then yes. I think they should have their old rating reinstated.

[robmpink]

It's a good question, the problem is that I can't answer it. I have nothing to do with the SBR ratings at all. However, IMO I feel if they were to make things right and pay this gentlemen his winnings on this complaint then yes. I think they should have their old rating reinstated.

Thanks BBD. I thought there was going to be an explantion along with other situations not related to this case posted on Monday that justified the grade drop. It was in another post somewhere.

[bigboydan]

My guess would be that Bill and Justin are still trying to settle this case Rob. So thats probably why we haven't seen an official statement as of yet in regards to the downgrade.

[Bill Dozer]

Wagerweb told us today that there should be a fair resolution and we will continue to work on the issue.

Some A rated bookmakers are offering an opinon on this after looking at the wager times.

[acw]

Wagerweb told us today that there should be a fair resolution and we will continue to work on the issue.
So what has the outcome been?

By the way I think the only proper solution is if the book cancels all the past posted losing wagers and honours the winning ones! High class bookmakers do this!

Notice
The kick-off time of the following Swedish Allsvenskan matches was advanced an hour earlier than its scheduled time 22:00 on 26 October 2003:
Enkopings SK FK-AIK Solna
Helsingborgs IF-Orgryte IS
IFK Goteborg-Landskrona BoIS
GIF Sundsvall-Halmstads BK
IF Elfsborg-Hammarby
Orebro SK FK-Malmo FF
For technical reasons, our acceptance of all bets relating to the above matches was only ceased as from 21:21 on 26 October 2003.
According to our Football Betting Rules, all bets placed after kick-off, i.e. 21:00 for the above matches, are deemed void. However, we have decided to grant a privilege and to treat this as an exception. We should stress this is not intended to and will not bind us as a precedent in the exercise of our rights and absolute discretion should the same or similar incident happen in the future.
We hereby confirm that we shall treat:-
1. All Win Bets (multiple included) placed during the period from 21:00 – 21:21 (“Period”) as valid and payout will be made in accordance with the odds at the time the bet was placed;
2. Save and except for Lose Bets placed during the Period on multiple, which shall be considered successful but with odds counted as “1”, all Lose Bets placed during the Period will be refunded.
The revised payout will be automatically transferred to our internet customers’ accounts on 18 November 2003. Registration for Cash-Betting Tickets payout or refund will be processed from 20:00 on 18 November 2003 to 20:00 on 2 December 2003 at all our operation outlets. Any registration beyond the stipulated time will not be entertained.

[robmpink]

Wagerweb told us today that there should be a fair resolution and we will continue to work on the issue.
So what has the outcome been?

By the way I think the only proper solution is if the book cancels all the past posted losing wagers and honours the winning ones! High class bookmakers do this!

The sad thing is that you are serious. Maybe they should jerk him off as well and give him an additional $100,000.

[eric dy]

What ever happened with this situation? Did this guy get paid from WagerWeb?

Anybody from SBR know?

[jobee]

Just read all the way through this - very interesting thread. For what it's worth I'm on WW's side to some extent. If they're cancelling losing and winning past post wagers then it's fair enough. The player was knowingly manipulating a flaw in the software - lines were read at the start of the call - and WW didn't figure that out immediately. It may be an obvious flaw when you know about it, but until then you might not think about it. I can see it from both sides though.

Anyway, that's by the by. Just wanted to share the funniest ever past posting story I know. A friend of mine discovered the lines for a darts match were still up at a minor European book after the match had finished. He couldn't resist taking a shot for a decent amount, thinking it would probably be voided, and he placed a bet. Only he hadn't watched the match, in which a big advantage had dissolved into a tie, and he took the win... Probably the only example of a losing bet past the post when the result is known you'll ever find. I'd love to have been in the traders office the next day when that came in - he was too embarrassed to ask to have the bet voided. Funny as the proverbial.

[tacomax]

What ever happened with this situation? Did this guy get paid from WagerWeb?

Anybody from SBR know?

The OP is your friend - why don't you ask him?

[pavyracer]

WagerWeb (SBR rating B-) confiscates $37,451; cites wagering fraud

A player won $37,451 making over 60 football wagers through the month of October. At the end of October, the player requested his funds and was given $5,000, which equaled the total amount he deposited. He was told his winnings would not be paid due to wagering fraud. WagerWeb states the player stalled wagering phone clerks, giving him the ability to make bets after kick-off. The book has thus far provided evidence that the player bet six minutes after the start of one game. SBR has reviewed multiple examples of his NFL wagers which were found to have been placed prior to kick off. This dispute highlights WagerWeb's on-going problems with risk management and their inability to deal with issues in real time. If the book identifies a bet placed after the start of a game it is expected to cancel the wager immediately, informing the player of its error of failing to close the betting market on time- as opposed to allowing the player's funds to be risked and later canceling the bet upon auditing his wagering history. Regardless of past-posting claims, Wagerweb has unjustly punished the player labeling his account as fraudulent instead of addressing individual wagers. SBR has asked Wagerweb to address each individual bet and to pay the player for all wagers where he was allowed to put his funds at risk.

Some games don't even start at least 10 min after the posted time. In football 6 min is probably 2-3 plays maximum. I have never seen a game decided in the first 3 plays in my life. It is not the player's responsibility to close the betting lines.

It's like going to the store bying expired milk and then returning to the store to tell them about it and they confiscate the milk, your money, the rest of your groceries and call the cops on you.

[acw]

Whereas Wager Web was sloppy, the player was deliberately taking a shot. He was intentionally and systematically taking advantage of a weakness in the bookmaker's software. Between the two, I think the player is clearly more at fault.

Any proof of this?

Have you ever been to horse racing? If so, ever wondered why many try to get their bet on as late as possible?

The more I read this story the more ridiculous I think those are that are even one second siding with the book. Obviously there are more customers betting late. Will they have given back the money to those that lost?

[robmpink]

Any proof of this?

Have you ever been to horse racing? If so, ever wondered why many try to get their bet on as late as possible?

The more I read this story the more ridiculous I think those are that are even one second siding with the book. Obviously there are more customers betting late. Will they have given back the money to those that lost?

Yeah, it is moronic to think that it was mere coincidence that the teams he bet turned the opening drives into points.

What does horse racing have to do with this? Re read the thread and when you have a handle on the situation then you could make an educated analogy.

[Justin7]

Some games don't even start at least 10 min after the posted time. In football 6 min is probably 2-3 plays maximum. I have never seen a game decided in the first 3 plays in my life. It is not the player's responsibility to close the betting lines.

Pavy,

I looked up the kickoff times via gamebooks on about 30 games. When I said it was a 6-10 minute past-post, that was after the official kickoff time, not the "published start time". If a game was listed at 1:00pm, and kicked off at 1:04pm, and was bet on at 1:10pm, that was a 6 minute past-post.

Any proof of this?

Have you ever been to horse racing? If so, ever wondered why many try to get their bet on as late as possible?

The more I read this story the more ridiculous I think those are that are even one second siding with the book. Obviously there are more customers betting late. Will they have given back the money to those that lost?

Acw,

This was not a case of a guy betting "at the last minute". With 1 exception, every wager identified by Wager Web was a. substantially past posted, and b. gave the player a huge advantage. RickySteve and I agreed that the "fair" price for these first-half bets, if done as a "live" bet would be between -220 and -260. I have extensive knowledge on pricing of live betting, and the player's advantage was insane.

If I told you etrade was trading at 260, but you found a loop-hole to buy e-trade at 110 due to pricing from an earlier time, no one would argue that your buying etrade was fair. In a US Court of law, your trade would be canceled. If sports betting were legal in the US and treated under contract law, 1. Wager web would win, and 2. Wager web could sue the player for attorney fees under fraud.

There are a lot of cases I think are close. The recent BetJamaica case was close. A recent Wager Web case (where they reduced limits to $1, so professional players couldn't meet rollover) was closer than this (although I thought they were wrong there). This one isn't what I'd call a "close" case.

[acw]

Pavy,

I looked up the kickoff times via gamebooks on about 30 games. When I said it was a 6-10 minute past-post, that was after the official kickoff time, not the "published start time". If a game was listed at 1:00pm, and kicked off at 1:04pm, and was bet on at 1:10pm, that was a 6 minute past-post

Who is responsible for making sure that this does not happen? The player?

[bigloser]

From Budins book

" I remember walking into the pits on most Sundaysand allowing clerks on my regular lines to take bets under $1000 until 1.15pm a good 15 minutes after the game had started. It didnt matter - do you think my clients had the advantage?"


and

"Nobody ever took bets until 1.15pm before, but for me it was a no brainer on the books and a special accomodation to the clients who were all SUCKERS and couldnt win even if we let them bet in the second quarter"

Wagerweb knew what they were doing, unfortunately one of their players wasnt a sucker.

They should pay or be downgraded further

Taking late bets is deliberate policy by books they should paY

[Justin7]

Who is responsible for making sure that this does not happen? The player?

Both book and player. In this case, the player was watching a team score, and the book didn't realize the game was still open. Under those facts, I call bullshit on the player.