Avoid Wagerweb

[Justin7]

Lets for a second assume that this is true, (though to say it a la halifax I consider it 99% unlikely), then probably there are other clients that will have been betting a bit late too. Many that will have lost. Did Wagerweb make any efforts refunding those losses?

Wagerweb made no adjustments to the other players, either winning or losing (and to my knowledge, didn't even make a determination of whether these players were winners or losers). I suspect that if a player were a large winner though, they would have reviewed his account.

WagerWeb looked at all the wager logs for games past-posted by the player. In all of them, he was about an average of 6 minutes later than the last bettor. The other players seen as "past-posting" were within 30 seconds or so of the kickoff. WW did not adjust these wagers, as none of these players were systematically past-posting (either in volume of wagers, time period of the past-post, or systematic advantage attained by doing so).

I fault WagerWeb somewhat, because they probably knew about the software vulnerability. They probably even gained a bit of extra volume from allowing wagers that were asked for before kickoff, but confirmed after. I don't think they had any idea what the player was doing here until he tried to bet two games at once where both had scores for the team he wanted to wager.

We have no reports of losing past-posters who couldn't get refunds (but this isn't surprising - past-posters without fail always bet the right side, and NEVER lose long-term).

[DukeJohn]

There were *0* complaints from people who lost a past-posted wager that wasn't cancelled.

Not to try and add to your burden Justin, but if the company allowed bets to post after the start in the past then there is a precedent and thus their policy of not honoring past-posted wagers can not be used for the company's defense as it shows a clear pattern of violating this rule.

If I was in charge of this issue (and this was a US based company) I would definitely reduce the hours of the employees taking these bets, (as they must be morons or highly untrained to take past-posted bets especially on quarter or half bets) so as to not have to pay unemployment. I would then pace my office, frustrated that some asshole took advantage of my good will of letting customers sometimes bet past-posted plays in order to keep the goodwill that we are a wonderful offshore bookie.

I would eventfully come to the realization that from now on there would be no past-posted plays accepted, period. I would then contact the pencil pushers and ask how this loss could be best used. Either (More US tax based Company) my company had enough expenses on the books and we would continue holding the funds and claim them as an income and wait until 2008 to then put the money into a "marketing campaign" that involves sending this "unmoral criminal" his money and thus receive a nice tax expense.

Now we would need to spin this. Since I couldn't go to the US, I would personally call Bill to apologize for the lack of communication sighting the holidays were extremely hectic and if he would please give me the names of who he spoke to at the company and assure him they would be repercussions to those who did not effectively communicate with Bill. I would then lay out our plan to pay this guy his money. I would also offer Bill an invitation to come down and visit with us, offering to pay for his airfare.

I would then have some employee's canvas the net looking for any mention of this issue and have them explain what happen in the most favorable light. Sighting that we are a trusted book maker, been around for years, and can be trusted. We had a moral issue with what could only be lightly deemed as a customer taking advantage of our good will. I would explain we have rectified the situation and this issue should never happen again.

After a month had past and if Bill hadn't raised our rating back up, I would personally call him and ask what do we need to do to raise this rating.

Now Justin, my belief is both parties are at fault and both parties have a financial stake in this, but let's look at not who is right or wrong, but who stands to lose the most. The "criminal" stands to have his bets canceled. It is a loss, but not a physical one, since he never had received the money in the first place. Now the company will lose potentially thousands, hundreds of thousands, possibly even millions in future cash flow due to the negative publicity this will cause. This is quickly spinning out of control, but hopefully the company will see this before it is too late. From what I have read the company seems to be one of the good ones out there, they just really need to fix this quickly and get some communication going before it is too late...

[Bill Dozer]

I spoke to mgt yesterday again when calling back for what was supposed to be their conclusion. They have no answer for how they miss an NFL bet coming in after the majority of all the other bets, assuming that's the case.

If I'm a last minute losing bettor at WW, I would ask for any bet after the clock starts to be voided. They know their rules and allow players to bet after start of the game.

WagerWeb looked at all the wager logs for games past-posted by the player. In all of them, he was about an average of 6 minutes later than the last bettor. The other players seen as "past-posting" were within 30 seconds or so of the kickoff. WW did not adjust these wagers, as none of these players were systematically past-posting (either in volume of wagers, time period of the past-post, or systematic advantage attained by doing so).

They know they can't have it both ways.

There are always opinions on what "probably happened" and about the player's intentions, but as said, this is not about that. You could argue that WW probably knew he was doing xyz after 10 bets or 20 bets or the first five bets but ignored it until he requested his payout. Sometimes angle shooters also gamble. Maybe he tries the casino? Maybe he had bets he would have placed elsewhere... maybe not without the edge. Maybe Wagerweb would have allowed some of those bets to stand had they not had the more egregious examples... maybe not. Maybe they wait to see if he somehow busts out, then when he reups, they make sure he can't bet after start?

If it happened 3 or 4 times, or even once without the house catching it until after the game would we say the house should cancel the bet after it won? No. Should the book have the ability to entrap the player citing his subsequent bets later?

I don't think that's what happened either. My bet would be on ignorance. That's not for us to decide here or to decide in the next case when the players intentions are less defined and the book doesn't have the luxury of offering up 70 examples.

[Stevee]

This sportsbook must be either (A) in huge financial trouble or (B) have horrible management (C) all of the above.

Sounds like a very unfortunate situation for both the sportsbook and player.

[TLD]

Some good responses.

After reading what everyone has said on both sides, I stand by my assessment of the situation in Post #79.

I will not play at Wagerweb, I will not recommend them to others, and I favor their SBR grade reduction.

[bigboydan]

WagerWeb had a clear rule: no past-posting, and "wager web will not honor past-posted events". It's a fair rule, and crystal clear. There were *0* complaints from people who lost a past-posted wager that wasn't cancelled.

That rule becomes null and void when the sportsbook leaves the game up purposely to try and generate more revenue even despite the loss risk.

WagerWeb didn't know these past-posts were occurring. NO MORON IN THE WORLD would continue taking these, if you what the player was doing.

These morons at WagerWeb would and did after like the first 20 wagers (give or take), and continued to take them knowing good and well they were going to ROB this guy. (Sorry, I'm not gullible enough to believe WagerWeb's lie on this subject)

I have seen the business end of a sportsbook. Most phone clerks are bored, often cannot read English and could care less if a player past-posted them.

Then of all people should know that that the sportsbook's management is held accountable for their incompetent clerks actions. (even a judge would rule that way if it was in a court of law no matter what the case might be on)

Bigboy (and all who disagree with me), do you SERIOUSLY THINK WW knew what this player was doing, and allowed it to take a shot? I don't want to waste time on that absurdity, unless this is a serious point of contention.

Justin, I seriously believe they did, but let this guy to continue knowing good and well they were going to ROB him when he went to cash out. (see above for the same answer).

SBR is a beacon of light in the darkness. It is our job to cast light on the evils so that they show their true colors.

I couldn't agree more (Hence the downgrade and noted robbery

BBD, think and reconsider. Is this truly a robbery?

I did and I still think it was a robbery

I'm sorry Justin, but I respectfully disagree with you on this one. I don't think you can overlook the obvious in this particular case. The book had a bigger advantage, because they had TV's scattered throughout the office. So they had even a greater advantage than the player ever did, but chose to not to use it. Now that they didn't... they want the player to pay for their own mistake.

[JimmyG]

bigboydan


I'm curoius to know how you found out Wagerweb purposely left these games open.

Why would they do that and how do you know that's what was done?

It seems unprofessional for you to make a comment like that as a moderator without proof.

Justin always provides basis and analysis for his comments. Whats your basis of proof ? or what's your agenda?

[bigboydan]

First off, Welcome to the SBR forum JimmyG.

This was all covered throughout this thread sir.There is no agenda on my part at all. I'm just pointing out everything that has already been discussed prior to your post. It's kinda pointless to discuss this matter any farther really, because apparently WagerWeb has no intentions of making things right on this dispute.

[Rand790]

First, let me introduce myself, my screen name is WAGERWEB SUCKS!!, and I am the player who WON $42,000 from WagerWeb (thread says $37,000) and when I went to get a payout WagerWeb refused to pay me.

I have not wanted to post anything negative against WagerWeb because I have been very hopeful that through the help of SBG that we would get this resolved and move on. Unfortunately, it appears now that this is not going to happen. Therefore, it has become my new goal to ensure that every serious sportsbook player and every new player that is looking for a sportsbook understands how WagerWeb has treated me. Again, this is the last thing that I want to do, but I cannot even get WagerWeb to call me or respond to an email - so I am left with no choice.

I am not going to re-hash the hundreds of threads - however, I will be leaving some sort of message on a regular basis that points out my distaste for WagerWeb. From using this website, I think a lot of people click on TODAYS POSTS to see what is new and exciting and I want to be sure that WagerWeb gets the proper recognition they deserve. So, I apologize in advance to those of you who will think this is overkill and unnecessary, but you should get used to seeing WAGERWEB SUCKS on a regular basis.

If anyone has any questions, I am happy to answer them......I have nothing to hide. Bottom line is WagerWeb had a habit of keeping games on the board late to get as much action as possible. I simply made plays, that were ALL accepted and confirmed by a live person, that I felt were advantageous. Is it my responsibility to tell WagerWeb when to take their lines off the board - I don't think so. By the way, I made a total of 70 separate wagers with this sportsbook, so this is not one-time occurance.

Happy New Year to all...................more to follow...........

[datek23]

First, let me introduce myself, my screen name is WAGERWEB SUCKS!!, and I am the player who WON $42,000 from WagerWeb (thread says $37,000) and when I went to get a payout WagerWeb refused to pay me.

I have not wanted to post anything negative against WagerWeb because I have been very hopeful that through the help of SBG that we would get this resolved and move on. Unfortunately, it appears now that this is not going to happen. Therefore, it has become my new goal to ensure that every serious sportsbook player and every new player that is looking for a sportsbook understands how WagerWeb has treated me. Again, this is the last thing that I want to do, but I cannot even get WagerWeb to call me or respond to an email - so I am left with no choice.

I am not going to re-hash the hundreds of threads - however, I will be leaving some sort of message on a regular basis that points out my distaste for WagerWeb. From using this website, I think a lot of people click on TODAYS POSTS to see what is new and exciting and I want to be sure that WagerWeb gets the proper recognition they deserve. So, I apologize in advance to those of you who will think this is overkill and unnecessary, but you should get used to seeing WAGERWEB SUCKS on a regular basis.

If anyone has any questions, I am happy to answer them......I have nothing to hide. Bottom line is WagerWeb had a habit of keeping games on the board late to get as much action as possible. I simply made plays, that were ALL accepted and confirmed by a live person, that I felt were advantageous. Is it my responsibility to tell WagerWeb when to take their lines off the board - I don't think so. By the way, I made a total of 70 separate wagers with this sportsbook, so this is not one-time occurance.

Happy New Year to all...................more to follow...........

YOU SHOULD BE PAID MY FRIEND. NODYBODY WANTS TO HELP YOU. EVEN IF SBR TRIES BUT NOT BE GOOD ENOUGH.

[Rand790]

Popular Sportsbook Forums

Does anyone know anyother popular sportsbook forums out there.........

I think SBR is the best and most popular, but I could be wrong........any thoughts?

Thank you.

[datek23]

Does anyone know anyother popular sportsbook forums out there.........

I think SBR is the best and most popular, but I could be wrong........any thoughts?

Thank you.

THERE ARE A LOT, BUT GO ON GOOGLE AND PUT KEY WORD "BETTING FORUMS" OR "LAS VEGAS FORUMS" OR SPORTBOOK BETTING FORUMS", THEY ARE OUT THERE.

[Rand790]

Datek23,

Happy New Year! I must say that SBR (especially Bill Dozer) has been very helpful and has IMO really tried to come to a resolution with WagerWeb. In fact, although I totally disagree wtih Justin, he has always been professional and helpful.

Although Justin seems very pro the sportsbook in his threads in our conversations he clearly states to me and feels that both WagerWeb and I are at fault. What has not been mentioned yet is that Justin convinced me in an effort to get this issue resolved and closed to ask WagerWeb for 40% of the $42,000 that I won. Justin felt this was very fair and he went to WagerWeb with this offer. Still WagerWeb said they were not going to pay me anything.

So a few weeks ago, WagerWeb could have paid me 40% and this whole thing would have been over. I was shocked that they refused.

But, in all honesty, SBR has been great to work with, very honest, responsive and professional, at all times.

Yes, Justin and I disagree, but I think that Bill jumped in and has done everything he can to help.

[Rand790]

Yeah, I am looking for the forums that people really use. I think the rxforum gets a lot of hits. Does anyone else know of any good ones that get a lot of traffic?

[SBR Lou]

Yeah, I am looking for the forums that people really use. I think the rxforum gets a lot of hits. Does anyone else know of any good ones that get a lot of traffic?

Why are you spitting in SBR's face? This forum gets plenty hits, detach yourself from this thread and have a look around. They are working on your behalf to reach a resolution and you come into this thread and make comments like these?

[Rand790]

I think you mis-read my thread.

Please look at thread #222 - I think SBR is the best and most popular, but I could be wrong........any thoughts?

I am just looking for some similar sites......I just figured out how to post a brand new thread to get some answers. Sorry if I wasn't totally clear. I have been more than pleased with SBR.

[bigboydan]

Although Justin seems very pro the sportsbook in his threads in our conversations he clearly states to me and feels that both WagerWeb and I are at fault. What has not been mentioned yet is that Justin convinced me in an effort to get this issue resolved and closed to ask WagerWeb for 40% of the $42,000 that I won. Justin felt this was very fair and he went to WagerWeb with this offer. Still WagerWeb said they were not going to pay me anything.

Whether Justin appears to be pro-book or not on this particular case, it's a moot point IMO (everyone has the right to form their own opinion on this case and thats fine). However, if Justin told you that WagerWeb should have paid some type of compensation in this case, and the book still refused to pay. I think that sums it up if it's indeed true.

[Rand790]

I am sure Justin will reply................better to hear it from him first hand.

[SBR Lou]

I think you mis-read my thread.

Please look at thread #222 - I think SBR is the best and most popular, but I could be wrong........any thoughts?

If that's the case I apologize, but your comment of

"Yeah, I am looking for the forums that people really use"

seemed to imply otherwise, or that people don't really use SBR. In any case, have a good one.

[robmpink]

Share some of your other schemes with the people here Eric.

[Justin7]

WWS,

I do not normally discuss settlement negotiations publicly - this makes them less likely to succeed.

As you stated, I did make a recommendation for settlement.

[louis]

"Bottom line is WagerWeb had a habit of keeping games on the board late to get as much action as possible. I simply made plays, that were ALL accepted and confirmed by a live person, that I felt were advantageous. Is it my responsibility to tell WagerWeb when to take their lines off the board - I don't think so."

I agree with you 100%. Olympic does the same thing leaving games up after they have started. If a book offers a bet, it is not our job as players to say - 'oh that bet is advantageous to us, we can't make it'. Likewise, if a clerk accepts a bet it is not our job to say 'oh, mr. clerk let me speak to a manager to make sure the bet is accepted'. You may have taken a "shot" at wagerweb, but so what. Wagerweb by allowing bets after the game started, welcomed these "shots".

If Wagerweb has a no "past posting" rule, then management should make sure this is being enforced. Clerks should make sure this is enforced. How unprofessional is it, to leave the game up and available and then expect the player to enforce a rule like this? The book knows when the game starts. To expect a player to hang up on a clerk in the middle of a call because now the game has started is ridiculous.

Can a player that lost a bet use this no "past posting" rule to now get a refund. I absolutely agree with Bill when he says Wagerweb can't have it both ways. I'll tell you what Wagerweb, go through and refund the money of everyone who lost bets made after the game started and I will shut up and not criticize you further.

Wagerweb indeed sucks. No A or B book would behave like this. They may warn a player, limit a player's bet, or close a player's account, but they would not steal money from a player. Wagerweb deserves their drop to a C rating, and probably deserves to be dropped even further, in my opinion.

[robmpink]

"Bottom line is WagerWeb had a habit of keeping games on the board late to get as much action as possible. I simply made plays, that were ALL accepted and confirmed by a live person, that I felt were advantageous. Is it my responsibility to tell WagerWeb when to take their lines off the board - I don't think so."

I agree with you 100%. Olympic does the same thing leaving games up after they have started. If a book offers a bet, it is not our job as players to say - 'oh that bet is advantageous to us, we can't make it'. Likewise, if a clerk accepts a bet it is not our job to say 'oh, mr. clerk let me speak to a manager to make sure the bet is accepted'. You may have taken a "shot" at wagerweb, but so what. Wagerweb by allowing bets after the game started, welcomed these "shots".

Wagerweb indeed sucks. No A or B book would behave like this. They may warn a player, limit a player's bet, or close a player's account, but they would not steal money from a player. Wagerweb deserves their drop to a C rating, and probably deserves to be dropped even further, in my opinion.

Don't you people get it? This isn't like he went online to bet the 2nd half of a game and it kicked off a minute earlier. After discovering by accident that when he called and bullcrapped for 10 minutes, the first line he asked for was still open even if it was 5 minutes in. He monitored the scores while talking about how small his dick is and after a team scored he made his play. The funny part is that he won't see a penny. SBR already downgraded WW. What do they have to gain by paying this scrub? He should accept the fact that he got caught and be lucky he got any money. Wagerwebsucks AKA Eric Dye is a shot taker that got caught.

[louis]

I don't care if Wager Web allowed him to bet 15 minutes into a game. I see absolutely nothing wrong with waiting until a team scores and then making a bet on that team, if the book wants to accept this bet. It's called advantage play. Guess we just disagree. Wager Web took bets after the game started either to get more business or because they were disorganized and mismanaged. Several other books do it. This player should do what ever he can to make the best possible bet, given what the sportsbook is offering, period. It is not his job to tell Wager Web it is stupid to allow him to bet once the game started. And I don't blame him for waiting to see if a team was going to score before making his bet. That would be the best way to make the bet given what the sportsbook allows players to do.

[bigboydan]

WWS,

I do not normally discuss settlement negotiations publicly

All class all the time Mr.Justin. Then again I wouldn't expect anything different from you sir.

[Rand790]

Rob, it is difficult for me to understand your passion for this situation. I can understand my 42,000 reasons, but you seem really upset....................I would almost say you are more passionate about this than I am..........seems strange...

[horseplayer69]

WWSUCKS,

I'm sure you had some lossing 2 half wagers? your never going to get paid from this shit book what you can do is make life awfull for them..Ask fellow gamblers to jam there phone lines spam the shit out of them..and never allow another gambler to place bets there ever again..Post in forums get a team of gamblers to kill this book..

majorwager
covers
madjacks
gambling911
theoffshorewire
offshoregamblersdigest
therx
madjackssports
sportsbookreview

Oh there are many more !

Make website and kill this sportsbook..they even own other sportsbooks..findout what sportsbook they own and even jam there lines.

betus did the same thing to me..allow me to wager untill i won and then claimed foul.

[Rand790]

Thanks for your thoughts HORSE - it is really unfortunate that this has happened.

[JimmyG]

Wagerweb Sucks

I think they should pay you as well.

You seem like a legitimate player. There doesnt seem to be anything wrong with a guy that wants to cheat a book out of 42k.

I think if all the books were forced to pay all bonus scammers and past posters etc the industry would be in much better shape.

That way when the books go out of business the same posters here who say "pay the player" can bitch about why so many books go out of business.

??? Wake up people...

If you took the majority of sportsbooks that went under over the last few years and subtracted the 'Eric Dy's' and bonus scammers you would have alot still in business. The same people who come here and bitch about not getting paid would have less to bitch about.

The precedent SBR is setting here disturbs me. I can't be the only one that see it...

bigboydan...your responses are disturbing for a moderator but thanks for the welcome.

[Rand790]

You would feel different if you made a bet, the bet was accepted and then when you want to get paid, you are told to screw off.................

[JimmyG]

No i wouldnt...

When I bet i do it honestly. My only angle is the information i research to try to get an advantage.

I have what's called integrity and that's why I'm not told to screw off...

[Rand790]

You probably work for WagerWeb.......................

[JimmyG]

LOL...ok and i guess your not Eric Dy

Jerkoff

You spam like crazy under a screen name Wagerweb sux and Eric Dy and your gonna accuse me of working for Wagerweb.

scr@w you crybaby

[BigDog]

No i wouldnt...

When I bet i do it honestly. My only angle is the information i research to try to get an advantage.

I have what's called integrity and that's why I'm not told to screw off...

If someone makes a few post start wagers by accident then so what,no big deal....I have done this and probably everyone else has also....It happens,you see a game you like and it starts @ 4pm,you look @ your watch and its 3:59 so you quickly call and by the time you're confirming the wager the game has started....No sportsbook would have a problem with this! What a sportsbook does have a problem with is a shot taker coming in to clearly take advantage of them well after the game has began!....

There have always been plenty of "D" and "F" rated sportsbooks but thanks to SBR we knew to stay away from those guys(Thank you SBR for your work)...However,there aren't that many great books left for us to choose from and if we allow shot takers to take advantage and KNOWINGLY cheat the good ones who do pay(like WagerWeb does)then it just makes it harder for us honest players that appreciate the fact we have books we can send money to and get paid when we win!....

Not long ago the forums were filled with posters being concerned about the industry and wondering if our online gambling days were numbered....Seems like things improved but still NOTHING like it was a couple years ago! ....The shit that books could offer back then to new customers or to the loyal ones was incredible....they cant do nearly as much of that anymore because the industry has lost many players in the last year with the new laws so I think ANYTIME a shot taker has been caught and he clearly was taking advantage of a sportsbook then he should be exposed,banned and NEVER be allowed to play again @ that book and his name/IP address should be passed around to all other books and he shouldnt be allowed to play there either!....

I'm an honest guy and have NEVER had an issue with placing a bet and then getting paid if I won....I hope this NEVER changes so F**K the shot takers! If this guy wouldve placed bets like 99% of us do and won(which he wouldnt have) then Wagerweb(or any book rated B- or above) wouldve paid him with no problem....I just have a real hard time taking a shot takers side when he ABSOLUTELY KNEW what he was doing!

We as online gamblers either appreciate the fact we have offshore books we can feel good about sending our hard earned money to or we dont! If we dont then lets back all the shot takers,cheaters,scam artist,etc,etc and between them and the new laws we wont have any sportsbook options to choose from very soon!

People do shit KNOWING its wrong but still do it and then get pissed off when they get caught! Yes judge,I did steal that car but I DONT feel bad about it and I am very pissed that I got caught If your local hardare store which is owned by a really good guy keeps having shit stolen from him are you going to back the guy who is stealing? Hell no! all he is doing is causing problems for the honest shoppers! Less sales,higher prices,etc....same in the online industry,these shot takers/cheaters/scam artist kill our signup bonuses,promotions,etc!

F**K the shot takers/cheaters/scam artist!!

[JimmyG]

Years ago I knew a guy that would bet with Mega or some other small sportsbook...i dont remember the name.'

The software at the time allowed you to bet over in hockey games with the over in the salami with no set limits at each level of an if bet

When there were 2 games on the board he would bet over in the first game for $10 'if it' to over in the second game for $10 and then 'if it' to over in the Salami for $1k

Obviously the over in the Salami was already a winner.

He told me about it and what he was doing and I said thats a 'scumbag' move. I played with the place at the time too and it concerned me there were people trying to find angles to beat the system. I had money there and I pulled it out knowing 'scumbags' out there were trying to manipulate the system.

The only difference I can say is that this guy at least had enough sense and integrity (as little as it was) to understand when he got caught to shut up and just move on.

He didnt act stupid and pretend he did nothing wrong.

He was enough of a man to say they caught me good for them. He didnt cry like a baby in the forums and hope to get paid.

If this was a case where the guy made a bet or even two and they were past posted and WW was cancelling I would say f@ck them they should pay. But when a guy does it 60 times with a clearly huge advantage then somethings wrong.

WW should have had better controls inplace but paying this clown is not the way to fix the situation. Better ways for books to spend their money then to send a message " Welcome Scumbags"

I have a played at WW for a few years. I dont endorse any books but I can tell you I neer had a single problem gettin paid.

I'm glad they caught you "Wagerweb Suc ks, Eric Dy" and I hope they dont pay you.

It makes me feel better knowing my money is safe.