My ridiculous situation....

[rickjames]

Allright, this will sound crazy but it actually happened.....

This NFL season, betting on a prominent offshore site...

I found a bug which gave me inflated odds on teasers.

It's real tricky.....but here's the deal.

*Only* when using the mobile (cell phone) version of the site......when a teaser wager is/was placed on a football game where the odds were something other than (-110 -110).......the odds became dramatically inflated.

It's funny how I first noticed this.....I found a 10 team 7 pt teaser, and after it had hit I noticed my odds were for some reason 23:1, as opposed to the normal 15:1.

After much investigation and trial and error, I found that to be the odds i got with 9 teams at (-110) and any 10th team with a (+100/-120 or +105/-125).

2 teams in the teaser at 100, 105, -120, or -125 gave 30:1 odds or so.

3 teams, 45:1 or so.

4 teams, 60:1 or so.

5 teams, 80:1 or so

etc etc etc.

They also offered a 13 point super teaser, which gives odds of 0.77:1 normally.

When all 4 sides of a given 13 pt superteaser were off the (-110)....the odds given were about 12.50:1.

Everything about placing the bet was normal. When i went to the wager confirm screen and entered my password, I'd see something like "risking $50.00 to win $36.38" or whatever.

Put in the password, hit submit, go to "open wagers"....

"Risking $50.00 to win $655.55"

etc

Only happened when bet was placed on the mobile cell.

Make the same bet on the CPU, get normal odds.

Can't explain it.

Anyway long story short, I'm a guy who puts a couple hundred bucks in to start the year and I hope i can pull a grand out by Super Bowl.

Found out about this in October, had $500 or so onhand.

Turned it into $13-16k.

Pulled it out $1000 at a time.......

Until they suspended my account with 9k in it

So yeah, what does one assume would be the best angle of approach here?

I have no dillusions about getting the remaining money. I wasn't doing anything other than wagering as I might normally to make the money....error in *their* system.

Should I offer to clue them in as to where their problem is, for a price? Because the problem still persists, or did as of the last NFL games which had a 3 point line (wildcard round, i think).

Or should I just be happy with my blind luck and never contact the help for an explanation at all?

[Doug]

WOW !

They probably figured it out by now, but you pulled the scam in an effective manner.

Would you trust them to pay you for the info ?

[SBR Lou]

This guy is pretty smart for not attempting to cash it all out at once.

[ChuteBoxe]

Anyone else think they screwed up and should pay the guy?

[SBR Lou]

Anyone else think they screwed up and should pay the guy?

No I don't feel that way. It was an obvious and blatant error. Having already cashed out way more than he would have won at the correct odds, I think he already has (and should) have a big smile on his face. Even Bill Dozer couldn't make a case for this guy getting another penny, while you can say he deserves to be paid in accordance to what the correct odds should be on any leftover winnings in his account, that's pretty much nullified by his already cashing out well past what he was due over his entire range of bets.

[isetcap]

The information is of little value to them as they have undoubtedly already discovered their error. This is why your account was suspended with a significant balance.

There should really be no argument about whether or not they should pay. Obviously they should. The question will be whether they can afford to pay. I would immediately put the matter in Justin's hands if they balk at sending you the full amount of your remaining balance.

[SBR Lou]

There should really be no argument about whether or not they should pay. Obviously they should.

If this were a situation where he hadn't cashed out a penny, one could make a stronger case for him getting a little extra but not all of the $13k+. As it stands, I think this player is happy to have cashed in well off this exploit and I didn't get the impression he felt shorted.

[Iwinyourmoney]

Sounds like an employee put in a "back door" but the wrong person found it first

[isetcap]

If this were a situation where he hadn't cashed out a penny, one could make a stronger case for him getting a little extra but not all of the $13k+. As it stands, I think this player is happy to have cashed in well off this exploit and I didn't get the impression he felt shorted.

His feelings and ethics aside, it is imperative that the book pay the full amount if they wish to avert a situation that would classify them as unprofessional. No need for the book to resort to lowlife tactics just because the player did. Just fix the problem, pay him his money, delete his account and chalk it up to a hard-learned lesson on the merits of testing and quality control.

[Willie Bee]

Well I would like to ask Mr James to go ahead and fill out one of our complaint forms just to verify his accounts. No offense, Mr. James, but I'm a crotchety old man, full of cynicism and simply don't really trust out of the blue forum posts like this. Plus I just don't like to waste energy forming an opinion on something like this if one doesn't need to be formed in the first place.

[thebigguy]

His feelings and ethics aside, it is imperative that the book pay the full amount if they wish to avert a situation that would classify them as unprofessional. No need for the book to resort to lowlife tactics just because the player did. Just fix the problem, pay him his money, delete his account and chalk it up to a hard-learned lesson on the merits of testing and quality control.

I agree.

[isetcap]

Well I would like to ask Mr James to go ahead and fill out one of our complaint forms just to verify his accounts. No offense, Mr. James, but I'm a crotchety old man, full of cynicism and simply don't really trust out of the blue forum posts like this. Plus I just don't like to waste energy forming an opinion on something like this if one doesn't need to be formed in the first place.

I give Mr. James credit for coming out with the whole story from the beginning in this case. He's not trying to convince us that he was placing bets for his girlfriend who told him what to pick and that he had no idea the payouts he was getting were outrageous. He knew he was taking shots and the book kept grading the bets.

[jackpot269]

Sounds like an employee put in a "back door" but the wrong person found it first

Somebody manipulated the system!!! Don't think it was just a glitch!

[MadCapper]

wow. interesting.

thanx for sharing!

[Doug]

I'm surprised so many think he is due the rest of the money !

[louisvillekid]

i don't think he should get anymore money, he took a shot at them cause they obviously had a glitch in their system. he already has banked in on them, so he has no case.

reminds me of a time i worked for a temp service being contracted through another temp service. i was working for Temp A, but Temp B had the contract for the company i was working at, i had previously worked at Temp B so my files where in there system for issuing payroll, but now i was working for Temp A, what it was, is Temp B didn't have enough temps to cover a job and was using temps from Temp A, which i was working with, anyway i had to turn my timecard into Temp B each week and they would forward my time to Temp A, well since i was in both Temp companies payroll system, i was getting checks from both, and i didn't tell them, cause i was only getting 9 bucks an hour from Temp A and people who i could work circles around and had to train new ones that came in from Temp B were making 10 bucks an hour.
It took them awhile to figure it out, and then of course i got let go, and Temp B kept calling me, saying they are calling the police if i don't pay and just kept harassing me and leaving threatening messages saying i stole checks that didn't belong to me. I just called my attorney(i have a friend), he said just don't answer or say anything and let him know if i get a letter about being sued or having to go to court. Its been 3 years now, ain't heard anything.

[rickjames]

I talked to them once via phone, said the person I would need to talk to was in a meeting and to call back "tomorrow". I haven't yet -- I figured it was lost, yeah.

Pressed the issue and asked "why" i was suspended and the tech support beat around the bush before dropping the "fraud" word.

I've definately done nothing fraudulent, I'm not a hacker who twisted their system into my favor. I cashed in on the set of numbers they were giving me, couldn't have changed it if i tried. I actually had no net access for a month or 2 as I was moving but the cell was.....golden for me.

And no, I don't think they've fixed it.

The only games that come off (-110) are 3 point spreads, the last NFL weekend with NFL spreads on the 3 was WC weekend -- the Skin-Seahawk game, the Jag/Steeler game, and the Buc/Gaint game. I didn't cash in on an extra $20k when the Bucs lost by 10....which was a tie on the 13 pt teaser (and ties lose).

Anyway.......

Those were the last games where this bug could have come into play, and it was not fixed at that point.

My account was deleted...now get this.....leading up to the NFCC game. There was a prop bet, supposed to read "Eli Manning -- complete a TD or INT first".

No bull, the prop came out reading "Eli Manning, TD vs Incompletion first".

But the odds were say (-130, 110) as they would have been with the normal TD/INT prop.

Anyway I put $500 on "incompletion" and 2 days later the prop bet was cancelled (and then corrected) and my acct came up suspended.

As an aside, the odds calculated in the same messed up way for college bowl games, tho only 1 or 2 ever came off (-110).


What purpose might a complaint form serve, who would be reviewing it?

Is it the concensus that I should lay everyting out for the manager/guy i need to talk to in charge.....at the book, and hope he sees the error was on their side.......and decides to be real nice?

LOL.

I'm 99% positive they haven't fixed it -- I will say they no longer accept new accts in the US sadly.

[rickjames]

btw, last basketball season I found 2 occasions where this book came out with reverse moneylines on basketball games.

One NBA game, one NCAA hoops.

As in, Chicago @ LAL-8.
Chicago (-350) LAL (300) ML.

No bull.

On both those occasions i dropped most my acct on the reverse ML, contacted them to show them their error, they correct it, then I pound the "dog" to hedge.

Nice when you can get both sides +300 on a ML.

They're not always on the ball is my point.

[Willie Bee]

What purpose might a complaint form serve, who would be reviewing it?

Not sure on the who specifically here at SBR, but filling it out is the fastest way to get all the necessary information to whoever it was that would be handling it.

Never meant to imply anything fraudulant on your part, just noting my general wariness with a lot of these issues based on past experiences.

[rickjames]

Also, who's Justin? I'm new to the boards

When I try to login i get the message "Your account has been DISABLED. Please contact us at PHONENUMBER to reactivate your account"

Better than "user does not exist" i suppose.

So....my theory is....they haven't discovered their own error, they believe I've bamboozeled em somehow and thusly accuse me of fraud.

If I show them the error is on their end, and even show them where....maybe they become somewhat accomodating? I don't know.

[Willie Bee]

Justin is one of the mods here. Bill Dozer's probably the first guy you want to talk to once you fill out the form.

[bigboydan]

First off, Welcome to the SBR forum Mr.James

I must say your saga has to be one of the most interesting ones I've read in quite a while.

I must agree with WillieBee on this one. So if you would please fill out the complaint form and have Mr.Dozer or Mr.Justin inquire to the book on your behalf about this situation.

[rickjames]

Allright, sounds good.

[betbetter]

Let me guess, when you find a wallet on the street you take the cash, exploit the credit cards and throw the remains in the nearest trash can too? Mom and Dad must be proud.

Exploit a mistake/error by a financial institution and expect to or try to keep the money. You are charged and prosecuted.

[rickjames]

I played almost exclusively teasers prior.

And I had zero computer access from Nov 1 - Jan 1.

If I accidentally bet my entire bankroll on Patriots -13......because I clicked the wrong button, meaning to hit Giants +13.....I don't expect the book to refund me afterward.

They're not responsible for my error. I'm not responsible for theirs.

In a vaccumm, should the book feel any obligation to pay the odds they generated? I'm uncertain but outside opinion intrigues me and I don't take offense to anyone who thinks i'm an ass. 999 out of 1000 would have done the same thing.

[betbetter]

Because everyone else would, does'nt make it right. C'mon.

And your analogy does'nt cut it. Displaying a correct spread is not exploiting an error on the clients part.

And being a valued client, if you had placed an incorrect wager on the Super Bowl and not trying to exploit a line move, any book would correct your mistake.

Aside from processing, fraud is the number one hurdle facing the industry.

[Poker_Beast]

Not his fault, they should pay up. If I was making the bets I would not have a clue what the correct odds on thos types of bets should be.

[rickjames]

I was going to be betting teasers regardless. The two weeks prior to my discovering this, I'd hit 10 team 7 pt teasers 2 weeks in a row to get my bank from about $40 up to the $500.

I can't even pinpoint when the phenomonon began. Maybe it's always been that way, I think their mobile technology is NEW and that's obviously where the flaw lies....But what, I notice it and I'm supposed to STOP playing teasers because of it? Seriously.....

[Bill Dozer]

It would be one thing to chase wrong odds and cite it as reson for risking funds on the bet but getting paid out more than he should doesn't give claim to the money in the account. It sounds like the player realizes he has the book's money.

[trytrytry]

vip did this

[tacomax]

Of course he should get paid - he's Rick James, bitch.

[rickjames]

Yeah, I mean if they're somehow morally obligated to pay out at the odds they give, no questions asked......that'd be good.

Otherwise, that's OK too.

I find it highly unlikely they'd reactivate my account and start sending checks, but if they feel the need to do so.....so as to protect their good name, that'd be wonderful.

*shrug*

taco raises a good point.

[magnavox]

It would be one thing to chase wrong odds and cite it as reson for risking funds on the bet but getting paid out more than he should doesn't give claim to the money in the account. It sounds like the player realizes he has the book's money.

Either this guy gets paid or WagerWeb is acquitted. (In fact similar example was used there of how much inflated odds the WW guy was getting.)

[Thor4140]

Any of you guys ever get profiled by a sportsbook? What that means is that they pick up your betting style if you are winning, and start manipulating lines aka shaving points. So you tell me what is worse. What this guy is doing or what the books pull? When these books start giving me an extra point when i am losing i won't have this bad taste in my mouth when it comes to some of these books. I could go to Bodog right now and print out my lines and they would be different from the lines on the Live Line page. To me when a book profiles you it is down right cheating. Its like me loving eggs but i have to pay more at the supermarket than everyone else. I do know if i found that same glitch tho i wouldn't say anything but i also wouldn't use it.

[rickjames]

magnavox: something that could be seen as a precedent?