2 years doing this professionally...#1 thing I have learned for aspiring "pro's"

[neila]

It is great to hear from someone in the trenches. Thanks for sharing.

[ionutm1984]

2 millions a bet i never dreamed of that kind of money

[LostBankroll]

Wheres Fishy to shit on this thread????? I bet 100,000 games and totals at Matchy.

[Pokerjoe]

If you put your entire bankroll in play every day your risk of ruin is 100%.

If you put it in on one play, yes. But if you make 200 plays at .5% each, no. I know someone who does exactly that on college basketball/euro soccer Saturdays. They aren't even high variance days, typically.

[lyon804]

Very informative thread. Funny thing is most PT posters will say... " I knew I wasn't betting enough"

[szk1983]

very nice analysis

[szk1983]

thanks for the info

[poochiecollins]

good post and right on the money. i watch all these people i know here say how you should only bet 2-3 games a day MAX.. lol lol.. wtf is that??? if you bet 2 games a day at 200$ a game like them. AND lets even say you hit 54% because you're a genius.. then you will net 5k/yr.. yeah, that's really going to pay your bills.. believe it or not, the more bets you make and the more volume you bet.. the more you will make.. people laugh at me when they find out i bet 400 games a week during NFL, NBA and NCAA.. but this is the only way you have a chance at making a decent amount. betting 2 games a day will make you crap.. the more game you bet, the more you will make, assuming your bets are +ev. i bet the board each day.. or just about the board. i bet on everything that is out there. it's the only way to do it. the bigger the edge, the more i put on it. i've been doing this for 25 yrs..

I assumed many to most games have lines set pretty close to true odds, meaning that the best of gamblers shouldn't touch them. Is this wrong? I don't gamble yet, just wondering.

[Robber]

I don't do that kinda volume

[George7904]

Fantastic thread.
I think the major point that this thread is stating is that it takes so much volume (with+EV) per year to earn a small salary that most people should bet very small amounts and only for fun. The wall to climb for most people is just too great. It is a much better idea (and life) to get a good professional job and bet +ev bets whenever you can find them. Making a living solely from sports betting is so difficult and time consuming, it just isn't worth it. -Get a real job and do this as a hobby. It can be a profitable hobby.

[Joe Dogs]

Very insightful Iceman

I haven't been to your blog in awhile.........Always a good read....Continued success.

[clarkd32]

where is the blog located?

[Joe Dogs]

http://www.sportsbettingforaliving.com

[k13]

Its just like poker, needs lots of money or play huge volume to make a living and be a "pro".

[sharpcat]

Fantastic thread.
I think the major point that this thread is stating is that it takes so much volume (with+EV) per year to earn a small salary that most people should bet very small amounts and only for fun. The wall to climb for most people is just too great. It is a much better idea (and life) to get a good professional job and bet +ev bets whenever you can find them. Making a living solely from sports betting is so difficult and time consuming, it just isn't worth it. -Get a real job and do this as a hobby. It can be a profitable hobby.

This

[LostBankroll]

Fantastic thread.
I think the major point that this thread is stating is that it takes so much volume (with+EV) per year to earn a small salary that most people should bet very small amounts and only for fun. The wall to climb for most people is just too great. It is a much better idea (and life) to get a good professional job and bet +ev bets whenever you can find them. Making a living solely from sports betting is so difficult and time consuming, it just isn't worth it. -Get a real job and do this as a hobby. It can be a profitable hobby.

Reallest shit ive heard all day.

[IrishTim]

keep encouraging losers to bet bigger, keeps my favorite books in business

Exactly.

[Cheme82]

So in 2 years you made 11,000 bets and you said you don't have a super computer (does that also mean you don't have a computer program?) but either way that's 5,500 bets a year which brakes down to about 15 bets per day every day. Let's say 40 minutes of handicapping per play (not nearly enough) that's about a day's worth of work for most people (about 10 hours) every day means you are putting in 70 hours a week (probably more). And even if you get the 2% ROI and you manage to put in 3 mill worth of action you just made 60k. With no vacations, no days off, and really no enjoyment of that money because it is for living expenses.

That's why what George said makes more sense to 99% of the posters here. Get a decent job, find a few +EV plays and pound them when you see them. Let's say you play 3 games on a football Sunday, you go 2-1 on nickel plays. You just had fun during your days off, and made some nice extra cash. You can add it to your bankroll but you can also enjoy it with the family. Take the kids to a water park or six flags or something. Buy the wife a nice coach purse, or some Jimmy Choo shoes. Or go with a friend to watch a football game the next weekend.

Enjoy it, most of us do this for fun, don't get too caught up with the bottom line. If you do, next thing you know you are bald, fat, in your 50's, with no wife, or anybody that gives a **** about you.

[pedro803]

[COLOR=#000000! important]

[COLOR=#000000! important]Its just like poker, needs lots of money or play huge volume to make a living and be a "pro".[/COLOR]

[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000! important][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000! important]very true! what did they used to say? oh yea, it takes money to make money[/COLOR]

[lyon804]

So in 2 years you made 11,000 bets and you said you don't have a super computer (does that also mean you don't have a computer program?) but either way that's 5,500 bets a year which brakes down to about 15 bets per day every day. Let's say 40 minutes of handicapping per play (not nearly enough) that's about a day's worth of work for most people (about 10 hours) every day means you are putting in 70 hours a week (probably more). And even if you get the 2% ROI and you manage to put in 3 mill worth of action you just made 60k. With no vacations, no days off, and really no enjoyment of that money because it is for living expenses.

That's why what George said makes more sense to 99% of the posters here. Get a decent job, find a few +EV plays and pound them when you see them. Let's say you play 3 games on a football Sunday, you go 2-1 on nickel plays. You just had fun during your days off, and made some nice extra cash. You can add it to your bankroll but you can also enjoy it with the family. Take the kids to a water park or six flags or something. Buy the wife a nice coach purse, or some Jimmy Choo shoes. Or go with a friend to watch a football game the next weekend.

Enjoy it, most of us do this for fun, don't get too caught up with the bottom line. If you do, next thing you know you are bald, fat, in your 50's, with no wife, or anybody that gives a **** about you.

I believe you nailed it. And since I am already self employed doing something more profitable than being a professional gambler I have a blast betting semi-professional.

[fury]

Props to whoever is able to do this for a living.

[Darkside Magick]

Why not limit yourself to 7.6%? Or 3.2323% per day?

If you are finding good bets, there should be no limit to the amount bet per day. I wish I could get 100%+ of my roll down every day all year. 2% roi comes out real nice when it's compounded daily.

exactly... 3 plays a day is not going to cut it!!!

[durito]

So in 2 years you made 11,000 bets and you said you don't have a super computer (does that also mean you don't have a computer program?) but either way that's 5,500 bets a year which brakes down to about 15 bets per day every day. Let's say 40 minutes of handicapping per play (not nearly enough) that's about a day's worth of work for most people (about 10 hours) every day means you are putting in 70 hours a week (probably more). And even if you get the 2% ROI and you manage to put in 3 mill worth of action you just made 60k. With no vacations, no days off, and really no enjoyment of that money because it is for living expenses.

That's why what George said makes more sense to 99% of the posters here. Get a decent job, find a few +EV plays and pound them when you see them. Let's say you play 3 games on a football Sunday, you go 2-1 on nickel plays. You just had fun during your days off, and made some nice extra cash. You can add it to your bankroll but you can also enjoy it with the family. Take the kids to a water park or six flags or something. Buy the wife a nice coach purse, or some Jimmy Choo shoes. Or go with a friend to watch a football game the next weekend.

Enjoy it, most of us do this for fun, don't get too caught up with the bottom line. If you do, next thing you know you are bald, fat, in your 50's, with no wife, or anybody that gives a **** about you.

It doesn't take more than 30 minutes sometimes to find 15+ev plays.

[wrongturn]

I am sure iceman's experience is real and helpful to a few, but it is another full time job, which to most, a very boring job, because if you do that you bet like machine and don't know or care what you bet each day (except the winning % perhaps), no joy of knowing your team is winning at buzzer etc.

[Doug]

Ice is 100% correct. One can't hit anywhere near 60% and above and just bet large on a few games and get it that way.

If you can hit 54% playing thousands of smaller bets is another story.

What has been largely lost over the years is bonuses and correlated parlays and value teasers, etc.

[Darkside Magick]

Ice is 100% correct. One can't hit anywhere near 60% and above and just bet large on a few games and get it that way.

If you can hit 54% playing thousands of smaller bets is another story.

What has been largely lost over the years is bonuses and correlated parlays and value teasers, etc.

[Cheme82]

It doesn't take more than 30 minutes sometimes to find 15+ev plays.

If you have a computer program or a spreadsheet. He said he does it the old school way so I'm thinking he actually "caps" the game.

[Iceman]

Nobody in this thread who is winning betting this way is handicapping. Now I do some stuff with openers because I have found I can usualy beat the closing line enough with them and this usually translates to being +ev plays for me but as far as handicapping plays I think I can speak for Nicky and Durito, they are line shopping and picking off numbers off and that is pretty much it.

I usually find a majority of plays like durito in 15 minute intervals, 2-3x a day or so. The thing is I also dont leave my computer for long stretches for various reasons also, so I dont miss out on things, plus most importantly I love what I am doing for a living. I can promise you if I didnt I would never be doing something like this. I quit a low 6 figure job to do this but I hated that job, my boss, etc.. I was burned out from almost 7 years of it. I couldnt be more happier with my choice even though I have not made the money I did there (yet, knock on wood), this to me is much more fufilling.

Sure its a full time job, it is my job and I work all the time at it like most people who work their jobs usually do. I like to handicap and I think I do fairly well at it with every sport I attempt but I don't spend 40 minutes looking at each game either. I run some qucik numbers and spend about maybe 1.5-2 hours a day total for an entire card but handicapping is also a small pct of what I do daily also to get my volume needed. I just dont have that kind of attention span to spend much longer looking at that stuff, LOL.

Not going to get into why I like this so much as there are many different reason but it does challenge me and I like and need that out of my work. Everyday is like putting a puzzle together and I usually jump out of bed (when I dont have too either) excited to "go to work", I also love the night time and seeing how I did, it gives me a bit of a high from time to time that most things in life just can't do for me. I like being judged and rewarded (or penailized) for how well I did my work. I love sports and competiton and am opinonated about them both but I also love numbers and stats and love seeing how I am doing with this everyday. It's a job where you get to keep score everyday sort of and I like that a lot. I could honestly talk about all this stuff everyday all day. Sad but true, LOL.

In a way I almost feel sorry for others who dont have something like this in their lives and I am not talking about gambling either cause I hate to gamble. People that just dont have any passion towards what they spend the majority of their time doing everyday. I sort of see my wife go thru this everday and it saddens me and I hope soon one day she can find exactly what she wants to do with her life everyday career wise. I mean she likes her job and does well but she doesnt get nearly the satisfaction at it that I do, I know that and I wished she did. I hope everyone feels that way with what they do in life, if not then they need to do that because you only live once. I know that is so cliche but its so true. I had a close friend die unexpectedly a few years back and it really effected me greatly and pretty much since then I have tried to focus on living a more fuller, happier life. It really forced me too look closer at things in my life. I think all the time about all my old buddies working the 9-5 life, in the same town and think they are going to regret never taking any risks in life and are going to get old one day and wonder what happened? I know I did before I did something like this. I have a long way to go but I feel choosing to do this now allows me to not only live a better life today but it also will hopefully put me in a posistion one day soon to have a lot more, at least that is the ultimate goal for me with all this.

Sorry about the length of this. Got a little caught up in it all, LOL.

[laconic]

Don't be so patronising about your wife. It is her selflessness that allows for your own selfishness. It's her that feeds your addiction and most importantly your belly.

All you are doing is trying to accumulate a pension. Your betting bank is inviolable to life's bills; bet on it. You would fall apart at the seams if you had to do this without her wage. You don't acknowledged this, which is why you grate on many of us. Her sweat and labor are the kingpin of this gamble toward an earlier financial security. You are not a professional gambler Iceman, you are a kept man.

I genuinely hope you succeed for her sake.

[Iceman]

Don't be so patronising about your wife. It is her selflessness that allows for your own selfishness. It's her that feeds your addiction and most importantly your belly.

All you are doing is trying to accumulate a pension. Your betting bank is inviolable to life's bills; bet on it. You would fall apart at the seams if you had to do this without her wage. You don't acknowledged this, which is why you grate on many of us. Her sweat and labor are the kingpin of this gamble toward an earlier financial security. You are not a professional gambler Iceman, you are a kept man.

I genuinely hope you succeed for her sake.

I wished that was true. Yes we are a team no doubt but her and I split the bills 50/50 down the middle. In fact in San Diego it was I who paid the higher majority of the bills and living there was no picnic believe me. Not like she is rolling and we are living great, we are not. Like everyone else it takes both incomes for us to get by. The first 5 years of our relationship I payed almost 90% of our bills and we lived an even more expensive lifestyle then than we do now.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter because it all goes in and out the same account(s).


Point is I wished she loved what she did more, that is all. Plus no matter how hard she works, she really cant make anymore and even she is frustrated by that but shes loves living here more then where we were before. My wife is great and I love and appreciate her more then anyone. You are right she is a great supposrt system but believe me if I wasnt contributing there is no way she would stand for this cause she can do a lot better then me if she wanted, I know that. Bottom line is we are both very happy with where we are as a family right now but like everyone else, we are striving to be more happy for sure.

[Cheme82]

Ok so since Durito, Nikky, and yourself have claimed all that matters is beating the closing #, not really worrying about handicapping the games to find winners then let me ask you this:

I have a local that will give me -105 on any total or spread (football and hoops). He will also sell me any half point for 10 cents regardless of line (so I can buy 2 points for 40 cents in hoops, or buy down from -3 to -2.5 in football for 10 cents).

If all I do is look at Pinny's lines and bet the games with the highest juice (with the same spread but at -105) and buy points whenever it increases my edge (from -3.5 to -2.5 at -125, etc). Would I make money without any "handicapping"?

[chachi]

A friend of mine who normally throws away his edge at the locals with their crap odds here is coming round to my line of thinking and considering doing it all online.

What online books are recommended for pro-level wagers, allowing say up to 2.5-5k on a line and wont close him down or cut him to 10c limits if he wins a few ?

[Pokerjoe]

Don't be so patronising about your wife. It is her selflessness that allows for your own selfishness. It's her that feeds your addiction and most importantly your belly.

All you are doing is trying to accumulate a pension. Your betting bank is inviolable to life's bills; bet on it. You would fall apart at the seams if you had to do this without her wage. You don't acknowledged this, which is why you grate on many of us. Her sweat and labor are the kingpin of this gamble toward an earlier financial security. You are not a professional gambler Iceman, you are a kept man.

I genuinely hope you succeed for her sake.

You sound like one of those cubicle cunts who hate their lives but, even more, hate those who don't stay in the cubicle. My God do you guys hate those who escape. They make you feel all the more ballless, don't they? You sound like the kind of guy who brags about his dental coverage. Cling to that. We'll put that on your tombstone: "He had dental."

You can go through life being a bitter little bitch, laconic. Or you can be a man. But what you can NOT do is become a man by posting bitter little bitch comments on sportsbetting forums.

You said, of Ice, "you grate on many of us." Us? You're speaking for us? Name 20 regular posters here that Iceman "grates" on. Far as I can tell he's one of the most liked posters on any forum he frequents. You, otoh?

And to save you the time, I'll write your response to this: "LOL" and "FU!" and "Struck a nerve, did I?" and "I'm a self-employed millionaire with a hot wife and 10 inch dick, so there!" and so forth. What you won't do is provide a coherent response, partly because you aren't capable of one, partly because your post is indefensible, and partly because you have nothing to say that isn't just more bitter little bitch bullshit.

Now go back to sucking off your boss and calling that a career, wacking off to porn and calling it a sex life, eating at McDonald's and calling it food, and hitting 48% of your bets and calling it bad luck.

[Pokerjoe]

Ok so since Durito, Nikky, and yourself have claimed all that matters is beating the closing #, not really worrying about handicapping the games to find winners then let me ask you this:

I have a local that will give me -105 on any total or spread (football and hoops). He will also sell me any half point for 10 cents regardless of line (so I can buy 2 points for 40 cents in hoops, or buy down from -3 to -2.5 in football for 10 cents).

If all I do is look at Pinny's lines and bet the games with the highest juice (with the same spread but at -105) and buy points whenever it increases my edge (from -3.5 to -2.5 at -125, etc). Would I make money without any "handicapping"?

Something like that. Buying points on/off the NFL 3 for that price is a gold mine in itself. Basically what you want to do is find bets that you could scalp at Pinny, then, don't scalp, just bet the weak side with your local. In the long run you'll do well. Good luck.

[Nicky Santoro]

I have a local that will give me -105 on any total or spread (football and hoops). He will also sell me any half point for 10 cents regardless of line (so I can buy 2 points for 40 cents in hoops, or buy down from -3 to -2.5 in football for 10 cents).

If all I do is look at Pinny's lines and bet the games with the highest juice (with the same spread but at -105) and buy points whenever it increases my edge (from -3.5 to -2.5 at -125, etc). Would I make money without any "handicapping"?

not only can you make money like this,but you can retire.. and the more games and volume you bet, the more you will make.. but this won't work cause once you beat your bookies brains in, which you will, he will cut you off.. so this can last 4 weeks. no one is that dumb... just take all the -5.5 -115, -3.5 -120 in nba, NBA un 186.5 -120, etc.. but once again, i doubt he is that stupid..