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  • Dumb_lucK
    SBR High Roller
    • 06-09-06
    • 164

    #71
    Hey Andrey, I noticed something in their rules where it states that when you deposit by Credit Card, you are required to send documents. Did you send them documents?

    "Due to changes in **** and ********** rules, Pinnacle Sports is unable to return funds to member credit cards. Within three days of your deposit and before any withdrawal is processed, you must upload legible copies of the credit card, front and back, a valid identification with picture ID, and a completed Credit Card Authorization Form."
    Originally posted by Andrey111
    I did not have access to mine primary e-mail. Someone has stolen my password and changed it.
    I have written Pinnacles from another e-mail address, not primary, and asking to block my account, of course, i send
    documents which proof my identity.
    If you did send them documents, including your CC front and back etc, at what point did you realize your funds were gone? Before or after you submitted documents?

    Can I receive a payout to my WebMoney account?

    Yes but withdrawals using WebMoney are accepted only if funds were originally deposited using WebMoney and they can only be returned to the same WebMoney ID as the account depositing.

    To request a WebMoney withdrawal, please send an e-mail from your registered email address to our Customer Service Department at CSD@pinnaclesports.com. Please remember to include your Pinnacle Sports Client ID, your WebMoney Purse details and the required amount.

    While you may withdraw more than the amount deposited, the maximum aggregate withdrawal amount using WebMoney is $25,000 USD or €19,000 EUR per month. WebMoney withdrawals are returned to the same WebMoney passport with a status of "Formal", "Personal" or "Merchant" as the deposit. Withdrawal requests to "Alias" passports will be declined.

    Please note that all withdrawals for more than $10,000 USD or €7,500 EUR require manager approval, therefore there may be a delay in processing these withdrawals.
    Clearly once could assume that the so called theives stole your email account password, created a Webmoney account, made a small deposit and the "Webmoney" withdrawal option was made available.

    Now a good course of action would be to contact Webmoney, find out where the withdrawal went, notify them that there has been a case of fraud and you want it investigated.

    As I can see from the responses from Pinny, they are wrong in the case that one word in Russian deems the ruling different from the other translations. This seems to be your only angle to blame Pinny for this action taken please as in previous posts, you verified that you submitted your documents (See post 57)
    Pinnacles speaks that the swindlers have sent the letter about withdrawn money even on November 29. To them have not paid because I have not sent in Pinnacle the documents about my credit card (copies of the credit card, front and back, a valid identification with picture ID, etc.) to this moment.
    When I have seen that my wager became -1 euro, I have understood that it is necessary to send these documents.
    November 31 I have sent all documents.
    In your very first post you state that "At night, from 2nd to 3rd of December (GMT+2) 2007, i found, that i can not login neither to my account at pinnacle, nor to my primary email." Suddently everything doesn't seem to add up from your first post, to you sending documents on November 31st and you receiving emails about a withdrawal etc.. I hope you follow my concern here, you send them documents for a withdrawal that you didn't make to a WebMoney account made by ficticious theives whom stole your information.

    Please help me here..
    Comment
    • Andrey111
      SBR Rookie
      • 12-28-07
      • 48

      #72
      Dumb_lucK
      "When I have seen that my wager became -1 euro, I have understood that it is necessary to send СС documents (copies of the credit card, front and back, a valid identification with picture ID, etc.) .
      November 31 I have sent all documents. "
      About any letter on withdrawal I did not know.

      "I have written Pinnacles from another e-mail address, not primary, and asking to block my account, of course, i send
      documents which proof my identity (photo of the identification card). " It was in night with 2 on December 3.
      What actually here you do not understand?

      The payment on Webmoney is accessible only when there is no use of a credit card though once.

      Please read my post № 64 once again.
      Comment
      • Dumb_lucK
        SBR High Roller
        • 06-09-06
        • 164

        #73
        Please re-read your post regarding the documents you sent:
        Pinnacles speaks that the swindlers have sent the letter about withdrawn money even on November 29. To them have not paid because I have not sent in Pinnacle the documents about my credit card (copies of the credit card, front and back, a valid identification with picture ID, etc.) to this moment.
        When I have seen that my wager became -1 euro, I have understood that it is necessary to send these documents.
        November 31 I have sent all documents.
        Why would you be requested to send documents if you weren't withdrawing? If it was the "swindlers" that requested the withdrawal information, why would "YOU" send in the requested documents?
        Comment
        • Dumb_lucK
          SBR High Roller
          • 06-09-06
          • 164

          #74
          When I have seen that my wager became -1 euro, I have understood that it is necessary to send these documents.
          Also my question, why would you be required to submit, Photo ID, CC copies and documentation if your wager goes to -1EURO.. (Is wager -1 EURO your Balance?)? Anyone else here have to submit documents to Pinny when their "Wager" reaches -1EURO?
          Comment
          • Andrey111
            SBR Rookie
            • 12-28-07
            • 48

            #75
            Originally posted by Dumb_lucK
            Why would you be requested to send documents if you weren't withdrawing? If it was the "swindlers" that requested the withdrawal information, why would "YOU" send in the requested documents?
            At last I have understood that you mean.
            The procedure providing of the information about credit cards is standard for all clients.
            It is politics all sportsbooks. It is not connected to inquiry of withdrawal.

            I quote:
            " Clients normally have three days to provide their credit/debit card information. However, Pinnacle Sports also reserves the right to suspend wagering and request credit/debit card and ID information immediately. "
            Therefore when 25 days from the moment of use of a credit card have passed,
            Pinnacle has made my wagers - 1 euro, reminding that I should give CC the information.

            You write :
            "Is wager -1 EURO your Balance?"
            You really do not know what is it such? I am shocked.
            Or you joke?
            wager it is the maximal sum of money which you can put on the bet. It not account balance.
            Comment
            • Andrey111
              SBR Rookie
              • 12-28-07
              • 48

              #76
              Originally posted by Andrey111
              Bill
              What positions SBR and personally yours in my case? Give the official answer in this occasion, please.
              ?
              Comment
              • Andrey111
                SBR Rookie
                • 12-28-07
                • 48

                #77
                Originally posted by Bill Dozer
                Andrey,

                I thought you were arguing the money should have gone back to your card first as their rules said but the computer hackers used Webmoney. Allow me a few days to follow up with CS mgt.
                Any news for me ?
                Comment
                • ronald
                  SBR MVP
                  • 10-31-05
                  • 4919

                  #78
                  There's something I don't understand here. How does this scam really work? I find it hard to believe that the scammers are able to simply "guess" someone's password. Andrey, did you log in to your Pinnacle account from a public computer? Which country do you live in? Assuming you are the sole user of your computer and your password is really not "guessable," how do the scammers gain access to your account?
                  Comment
                  • Bill Dozer
                    www.twitter.com/BillDozer
                    • 07-12-05
                    • 10894

                    #79
                    Hi Andrey,
                    Sent you an email yesterday, will resend.

                    Originally posted by ronald
                    There's something I don't understand here. How does this scam really work? I find it hard to believe that the scammers are able to simply "guess" someone's password. Andrey, did you log in to your Pinnacle account from a public computer? Which country do you live in? Assuming you are the sole user of your computer and your password is really not "guessable," how do the scammers gain access to your account?
                    Andrey's issue is with the method Pinnacle cashed out the last payout. Andrey said that the hacker hacked his home PC and email.
                    Comment
                    • Andrey111
                      SBR Rookie
                      • 12-28-07
                      • 48

                      #80
                      Originally posted by Bill Dozer
                      Hi Andrey,
                      Sent you an email yesterday, will resend.
                      I did not receive any private messages or e-mail from you recently.
                      Three months already have passed, as I have addressed in SBR.
                      From sbr I have received only letter from Josh West (it was in December), which recognizes mine correctness in this case.
                      ( I quoted this letter ) .
                      All necessary information on my case is present in this theme.
                      I tried to answer all questions in detail.
                      I sent to you my correspondence with Pinnacles in December.
                      What positions SBR and personally yours in my case?
                      Comment
                      • Andrey111
                        SBR Rookie
                        • 12-28-07
                        • 48

                        #81
                        My last correspondence with Pinnacles:
                        I have written to them and having quoted their answer to me, which they have given some months ago.

                        Why in my case the exception was made ?
                        Mine account is - at 259359.
                        2 December you have broken rules and have paid to the swindlers all money on my account through system Webmoney (anonymous purse), though original deposit was made from a credit card. I ask to notice, that Pinnacle has given out to the swindlers my money to an anonymous purse, which is not connected to the real documents.

                        --- ???????? ????????? ---
                        ?? ????: "Kiatisak - - Customer Service" <csd@pinnaclesports.com>
                        ????: RE: question

                        Dear Sir,

                        No withdrawals are processed using WebMoney when there are credit card deposits. ? You may withdrawal either by bank wire.

                        Regards,

                        Customer Service Department
                        Pinnacle Sports

                        (CaseNumber-818511_4)
                        -----------------------------------------------------
                        Hi !
                        I am thinking about opening an account at pinnacle, i would like to know :
                        If i deposit (first time) money using my credit card after that i deposit money using Webmoney, will i be able to use webmoney to withdraw any sum of my money ?
                        ________________________________________ _____________________________

                        You know what was Pinnacles answer?
                        I quote (From Pinnacle Sports (CaseNumber-845667_1) :

                        Dear Sir,
                        The information Pinnacle Sports sent in response to your question before you opened your account was in accordance with the policies as stated on our site. However, Pinnacle Sports often makes exceptions to these policies as part of our goal to provide superior Customer Service to our clients.
                        For example, our policies state we do not cancel wagers. But we are able to make exceptions for our clients and cancel a wager on occasion. ....
                        ......

                        Bill, I want to hear you.
                        Bill, how you will comment on such Pinnacles answer?
                        The similar answers are normal in a civilized business society ?
                        Comment, please on my posts № 62 , 64.
                        Comment
                        • purecarnagge
                          SBR MVP
                          • 10-05-07
                          • 4843

                          #82
                          It doesn't matter what he hacked, the WD shouldn't have happened. Pinnacle is responsible.
                          Comment
                          • Andrey111
                            SBR Rookie
                            • 12-28-07
                            • 48

                            #83
                            2 Bill Dozer
                            I still want receive from you any news on my case (already has passed more than three months).
                            In my case I speak about sportsbook which has a rating A ++ on your site.
                            In my case I speak only facts.
                            If my case does not interesting for you, you may simply say it.
                            And I shall not spend the time for sending e-mails and messages to you.
                            But, Bill, say even something, be not silent. Please.
                            Comment
                            • purecarnagge
                              SBR MVP
                              • 10-05-07
                              • 4843

                              #84
                              Wow, this is still going on?

                              nobody helping here?
                              Comment
                              • Bill Dozer
                                www.twitter.com/BillDozer
                                • 07-12-05
                                • 10894

                                #85
                                Originally posted by Andrey111
                                2 Bill Dozer
                                I still want receive from you any news on my case (already has passed more than three months).
                                In my case I speak about sportsbook which has a rating A ++ on your site.
                                In my case I speak only facts.
                                If my case does not interesting for you, you may simply say it.
                                And I shall not spend the time for sending e-mails and messages to you.
                                But, Bill, say even something, be not silent. Please.
                                Andrey,
                                I just sent you another email. I don't think you are receiving all my emails. I just replied to your PM. I asked for total amount of deposits via credit card since your last payment from Pinnacle.

                                Bill
                                830-515-4122
                                Comment
                                • Andrey111
                                  SBR Rookie
                                  • 12-28-07
                                  • 48

                                  #86
                                  Bill, have you received my letter which I sent 1 April ?
                                  What positions SBR and personally yours in my case?
                                  I hope to hear you soon.
                                  Comment
                                  • Andrey111
                                    SBR Rookie
                                    • 12-28-07
                                    • 48

                                    #87
                                    Originally posted by Data
                                    I think we just found where exactly Pinnacle is wrong, they have their rules inaccurately translated to Russian.
                                    In the text of this rule in Russian the word "только" (which is translated on English as "only") is added.
                                    It not a technical mistake of translation.
                                    By the way, I certainly informed Pinnacles management concerning it, some months back.
                                    But any changes has not taken place.
                                    Till now, at Russian variant there is a word "только"="only".
                                    (http://www.pinnaclesports.com/FAQCashier.aspx /Производятся ли обратные выплаты на кредитную карту?)
                                    How after that, it can be by translation mistake ?
                                    Bill , pay on this attention.

                                    p.s.
                                    Pinnacles does not deny, that their support service has given me answer : " No withdrawals are processed using WebMoney when there are credit card deposits."
                                    Comment
                                    • purecarnagge
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 10-05-07
                                      • 4843

                                      #88
                                      Pinnacle screwed this guy.
                                      Comment
                                      • purecarnagge
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 10-05-07
                                        • 4843

                                        #89
                                        A books aren't accountable anymore?


                                        to my knowledge this was never resolved...
                                        Comment
                                        • Andrey111
                                          SBR Rookie
                                          • 12-28-07
                                          • 48

                                          #90
                                          Originally posted by purecarnagge
                                          A books aren't accountable anymore?


                                          to my knowledge this was never resolved...
                                          Bill, has said that will talk to management, and will give the answer next week.
                                          I hope.
                                          Comment
                                          • Andrey111
                                            SBR Rookie
                                            • 12-28-07
                                            • 48

                                            #91
                                            Originally posted by Andrey111
                                            Bill, has said that will talk to management, and will give the answer next week.
                                            I hope.
                                            Today, I have received from Bill, such message:
                                            "Pinnacle contacted me to say that they have reconsidered after reviewing the logs and placed the funds back in your account. I know it took a while but glad it worked out."

                                            I don't know what to say. I shall speak frankly.
                                            -At first I thought that I shall not receive my money any more.
                                            -At first I thought that Bills reputation is false. (Because 4.5 months have passed).
                                            But now I have understood that was mistaken.
                                            Now I think:
                                            Bill, you fantastic! You and your site make large and useful job. We have such proverb: " it is better - late, than never "
                                            (Maybe I am mistaken with translation a little )
                                            You are great man!
                                            Large thanks for help, Bill !

                                            Thanks to all of you. Who wrote in this theme. Who supported me. Thanks.
                                            Special thanks : purecarnagge and crazyl !!!
                                            I am happy.
                                            Once again : Thank you , Bill !
                                            Comment
                                            • bigboydan
                                              SBR Aristocracy
                                              • 08-10-05
                                              • 55420

                                              #92
                                              Glad to hear everything worked out for you sir.
                                              Comment
                                              • Andrey111
                                                SBR Rookie
                                                • 12-28-07
                                                • 48

                                                #93
                                                Originally posted by bigboydan
                                                Glad to hear everything worked out for you sir.
                                                Comment
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