Picking spreads are NOT "50-50"

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  • Sunde91
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 11-26-09
    • 8325

    #1
    Picking spreads are NOT "50-50"
    I've heard a lot of people on here say that picking spreads are "50-50", and I think the notion is worth debunking. Here's a pasted response that I just gave...

    "50 50 shot"

    WOW. Do people honestly believe that picking spreads are a 50-50 chance?

    For this to be true, you would have to assume the perfect legitimacy of the spreads the books crunch out, and for a spread to be perfectly legitimate, you would have to assume that the outcome is TOTALLY unforeseeable outside the fact that one will cover and one will not, with no outside variables whatsoever. This obviously isn't the case. The games are too unpredictable, there are far too many variables, and the books often make spreads that are seemingly off by intuitive standards alone.

    If I flip a coin, the odds it lands heads is 50%. Why? Becuase all factors are controlled, there are two and only two possible outcomes, and there is absolutely no explicit or foreseeable outcome that would lead one to conclusively believe that anything other than random chance will decide where it lands. Outcomes in sports are, in fact, somewhat foreseeable, though obviously nothing near perfect nor even ideal. The very fact that oddsmakers make spreads is an example of them foreseeing how a game will go and projecting the spread in an attempt to get 50% action.

    "Well, you either win or don't win, therefore it's 50-50 a dur"

    Yeah, and you either get struck by lightning or you don't, therefore that's also 50-50. You get abducted by an alien or you don't, therefore it's 50-50. Alcorn State beats Duke or it doesn't, therefore it's 50-50.....that's the type of reasoning you're using once it's established that the spreads are NOT perfectly legitimate and unforeseeable.
  • THE PROFIT
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 11-27-09
    • 17701

    #2
    I was abducted by aliens, it's more common than you think!

    Watch your cornhole!!!
    Comment
    • hoopster42
      Restricted User
      • 02-12-08
      • 6099

      #3
      short term it can be any percentage split, and one pick obviously can be as high as 80-20 or whatever..........long term, over a huge sample size of say 1000 straight up bets, 95% of bettors are lucky to hit has HIGH as 50-50..........most will settle in at 45% no matter how bad they are because it's hard to be wrong consistently
      Comment
      • LLXC
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 12-10-06
        • 8972

        #4
        Randomly, long term is 50/50...
        Comment
        • poker_dummy101
          Restricted User
          • 11-03-08
          • 6395

          #5
          unreal. how dumb can you be?

          nvm dont answer it.. you might think its a trick question
          Comment
          • Sunde91
            SBR Hall of Famer
            • 11-26-09
            • 8325

            #6
            Originally posted by hoopster42
            short term it can be any percentage split, and one pick obviously can be as high as 80-20 or whatever..........long term, over a huge sample size of say 1000 straight up bets, 95% of bettors are lucky to hit has HIGH as 50-50..........most will settle in at 45% no matter how bad they are because it's hard to be wrong consistently
            Yeah, I was talking about a short term single bet, and for long term, track record isn't indicative of any % chance that you will hit your next bet as all bets are independent.

            You can hit 99/100, but it doesn't mean your next play has a 99% chance of hitting, only that 99% of your previous bets have hit.
            Comment
            • Sunde91
              SBR Hall of Famer
              • 11-26-09
              • 8325

              #7
              Originally posted by LLXC
              Randomly, long term is 50/50...
              IF the spreads were perfectly legitimate with no outside factors or foreseeability...yes, but that's not the case.
              Comment
              • poker_dummy101
                Restricted User
                • 11-03-08
                • 6395

                #8
                Originally posted by Sunde91
                IF the spreads were perfectly legitimate with no outside factors or foreseeability...yes, but that's not the case.
                And if there was no wind, no perfect flip, no slanted grass, we would know a coin flip isn't 50/50...right?
                Comment
                • Sunde91
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 11-26-09
                  • 8325

                  #9
                  Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                  And if there was no wind, no perfect flip, no slanted grass, we would know a coin flip isn't 50/50...right?
                  And what impact would that have on your ability to foresee which side it would land on? Oh, none whatsoever. That's the point.

                  Why don't you be a big boy now and try making an argument that addresses my points instead of stringing together insults with pathetic attempts at reasoning.
                  Comment
                  • poker_dummy101
                    Restricted User
                    • 11-03-08
                    • 6395

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sunde91

                    Why don't you be a big boy now and try making an argument that addresses my points instead of stringing together insults with pathetic attempts at reasoning.
                    Probably because noone that will read this thread gives a fukk what your points are. they are wrong
                    Comment
                    • poker_dummy101
                      Restricted User
                      • 11-03-08
                      • 6395

                      #11
                      PS: I just read your argument and it fukkin sucks.

                      If I randomly choose teams according to pinnacle's (or bookmaker or whoever u think best determines the closing line) closing lines, i have a 50/50 chance of being right whether I watch sports or not.

                      PSS: Why do you think sites like bodog and sportsinteraction kick people out?
                      Comment
                      • Sunde91
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 11-26-09
                        • 8325

                        #12
                        Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                        PS: I just read your argument and it fukkin sucks.

                        If I randomly choose teams according to pinnacle's (or bookmaker or whoever u think best determines the closing line) closing lines, i have a 50/50 chance of being right whether I watch sports or not.

                        PSS: Why do you think sites like bodog and sportsinteraction kick people out?

                        You obviously can't even wrap your feeble mind around the concept that the odds are not perfectly legitimate.

                        "50 50 chance of being right"

                        Based on what??? Is it 50/50 when you pick Alcorn State ML +1000 over UK? Why not if you think it's 50/50 with spreads? Oh...because you're an idiot gambler who think spreads magically make games 50/50.
                        Comment
                        • poker_dummy101
                          Restricted User
                          • 11-03-08
                          • 6395

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sunde91
                          You obviously can't even wrap your feeble mind around the concept that the odds are not perfectly legitimate.
                          Pinnacles closing numbers are as close to 50/50 as you can come ATS. A "monkey" will pick enough +EV games against -EV games so they equal around 50% in the long run.

                          If i flip a coin a trillion times... heads is worth .52 and tails is worth .48.. a monkey picks randomly heads and tails....what do you think his percentage of hitting 50% is?
                          Comment
                          • Sunde91
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 11-26-09
                            • 8325

                            #14
                            Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                            Pinnacles closing numbers are as close to 50/50 as you can come ATS. A "monkey" will pick enough +EV games against -EV games so they equal around 50% in the long run.

                            If i flip a coin a trillion times... heads is worth .52 and tails is worth .48.. a monkey picks randomly heads and tails....what do you think his percentage of hitting 50% is?
                            "As close to 50/50 as you can come" based on...oh, right, nothing other than that oddsmakers are magic.

                            Track record of independent, random events =/= probability of next independent, random event
                            Comment
                            • Chi_archie
                              SBR Aristocracy
                              • 07-22-08
                              • 63172

                              #15
                              where can I find a prop to bet on me getting hit by lightning?

                              I've been getting a crazy neck hairs standing on end sensation during lightning storms the past year or two
                              Comment
                              • jjgold
                                SBR Aristocracy
                                • 07-20-05
                                • 388179

                                #16
                                Any game that has a spread is 50-50
                                Comment
                                • Sunde91
                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                  • 11-26-09
                                  • 8325

                                  #17
                                  @ dummy

                                  You're trying to equate the baseless notion that you will "hit near 50% in the long run" if you chose randomly to the probability of picking a single game randomly.
                                  Comment
                                  • poker_dummy101
                                    Restricted User
                                    • 11-03-08
                                    • 6395

                                    #18
                                    thread is not worth responding to due to too many dumb statements by sunde. i am guessing the 91 in his name is his date of birth (1991) meaning this fukk is trying to come up with something like martingale except on a bobby or sammy level of thinking.
                                    Comment
                                    • Sunde91
                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                      • 11-26-09
                                      • 8325

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by jjgold
                                      Any game that has a spread is 50-50
                                      Yeah, they try to make it even, but it's impossible. Games are foreseeable to the extent that you can project spreads, but unforeseeable to the extent that the spread is accuarate enough to render a 50/50 chance of winning.

                                      If it were really 50/50, as in a coin-flip, handicapping either heads/tails to get 50/50 would be ridiculous since it's inherently the same odds. Spreads are subject to 1) human error 2) the unmeasurable unpredictability of sports; a coin flip is not.
                                      Comment
                                      • Sunde91
                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                        • 11-26-09
                                        • 8325

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                                        thread is not worth responding to due to too many dumb statements by sunde. i am guessing the 91 in his name is his date of birth (1991) meaning this fukk is trying to come up with something like martingale except on a bobby or sammy level of thinking.

                                        Thinking hurts for some (well I guess most on here), buddy, but it's OK
                                        Comment
                                        • OmgUrMom
                                          Restricted User
                                          • 02-07-10
                                          • 8481

                                          #21
                                          Wow is this guy for real? If so quite sad, if not well nice level sir.

                                          I would try to show you how wrong you are about everything you just posted, but clearly you would not understand and my time would be wasted.
                                          Comment
                                          • OmgUrMom
                                            Restricted User
                                            • 02-07-10
                                            • 8481

                                            #22
                                            What if you flip a coin to decide who you are going to pick... Would your bet not be 50/50? If your point is that people are stupid and use the wrong factors to decide their winners and losers, this can lead to a below 50% probability of winning. If this was your point you could of stated it in a much more simplified manner and it's quite obvious anyways.
                                            Comment
                                            • Sunde91
                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                              • 11-26-09
                                              • 8325

                                              #23
                                              People don't possess the reading comprehension to understand my essential point and then call be an idiot without addressing anything. Brilliant.

                                              Originally posted by OmgUrMom
                                              What if you flip a coin to decide who you are going to pick... Would your bet not be 50/50? If your point is that people are stupid and use the wrong factors to decide their winners and losers, this can lead to a below 50% probability of winning. If this was your point you could of stated it in a much more simplified manner and it's quite obvious anyways.
                                              Your "bet", i.e. chances of winning, would be ambiguous.

                                              Ok, let's make it simple with some hypotheticals.

                                              I picked Alcorn State ML +1000 to beat UK. My chances of winning are, most obviously, not 50/50. NOT because of the odds, but because AS is the worst team in CBB and UK one of the best.

                                              Now if the spread of that game is +50, and I picked Alcorn State/Uk randomly, people would seem to think that my odds are now magically 50/50 to win. Why? Because they're coming from the assumption that the spread made by the oddsmakers is perfectly legitimate enough to establish 50/50 odds.

                                              But the means of capping a game are 1) subject to human error and 2) far too unpredictable to render perfect 50/50 odds of winning.
                                              Comment
                                              • james4512
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 10-27-08
                                                • 3707

                                                #24
                                                this is what most morons dont understand, the spread is to control the publics perception not what they actually think the outcome will be. Its not nearly 50% because there are people who hit 70% not many but there is
                                                Comment
                                                • PittsburghPlayer
                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                  • 01-11-10
                                                  • 6760

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Sunde91
                                                  Thinking hurts for some (well I guess most on here), buddy, but it's OK
                                                  No shit. That poster writes PSS, which is writing Post Script Script. Of course it is PPS, Post Post Script.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • OmgUrMom
                                                    Restricted User
                                                    • 02-07-10
                                                    • 8481

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Sunde91
                                                    People don't possess the reading comprehension to understand my essential point and then call be an idiot without addressing anything. Brilliant.



                                                    Your "bet", i.e. chances of winning, would be ambiguous.

                                                    Ok, let's make it simple with some hypotheticals.

                                                    I picked Alcorn State ML +1000 to beat UK. My chances of winning are, most obviously, not 50/50. NOT because of the odds, but because AS is the worst team in CBB and UK one of the best.

                                                    Now if the spread of that game is +50, and I picked Alcorn State/Uk randomly, people would seem to think that my odds are now magically 50/50 to win. Why? Because they're coming from the assumption that the spread made by the oddsmakers is perfectly legitimate enough to establish 50/50 odds.

                                                    But the means of capping a game are 1) subject to human error and 2) far too unpredictable to render perfect 50/50 odds of winning.
                                                    well if that was the point your trying to make i agree completely! Of course spreads are not perfect, that is why people think they can have an edge (because the spread was not 50/50) If they believed the spread was perfect obviously they are not going to bet, unless they are just doing it for the gamble.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • poker_dummy101
                                                      Restricted User
                                                      • 11-03-08
                                                      • 6395

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by OmgUrMom
                                                      well if that was the point your trying to make i agree completely! Of course spreads are not perfect, that is why people think they can have an edge (because the spread was not 50/50) If they believed the spread was perfect obviously they are not going to bet, unless they are just doing it for the gamble.
                                                      Just stop trying to respond to the moron.

                                                      If someone has an "edge", they make money. If someone thinks they have an edge, they can win or lose.. mostly lose (where alot of us fit). If a monkey who knows nothing about sports picks teams against the spread, he will average out to be around 50%...not because every game has a 50% chance realistically, but because in the long run he will pick some +EV games and some -EV games in his game of chance.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • MonkeyF0cker
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 06-12-07
                                                        • 12144

                                                        #28
                                                        Umm. Why do you think lines move?
                                                        Comment
                                                        • ericthegangster
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 12-10-09
                                                          • 1764

                                                          #29
                                                          sundae. look up historical numbers of vegas spreads. it is 50/50. you are wrong. just shut up.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • Sunde91
                                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                                            • 11-26-09
                                                            • 8325

                                                            #30
                                                            Are people misunderstanding or...
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