Who's honest about paying taxes on gambling profits?Do you take advantage of loophole

[BrentCrude]

From my earlier post-thread concerning people who are smart enough to make a big income but dumb enough to risk large amounts of money depositing at sportsbooks came this debate about gambling taxes.

I remember going over gambling tax laws with both accountants and management in the casino business in Las Vegas about gambling winnings but am unsure how the law is interpreted today.

I said in that earlier thread and was called an idiot for saying that people who buy big payoff longshot futures and exotics- parlay type bets are better off buying smaller increment tickets so they can get in under the radar and not pay taxes to the feds and state.I think the threshold for the IRS to get involved in being reported to by a casino is something like a $1500 win on a tiny bet or jackpot.I had a few $5 bets on the St.Louis Rams to win the Super Bowl at 200-1 in 1999 and was told that for each $5 bet it was under the IRS reporting threshold but if I would have bet $20 it would have been an IRS issue where the casino-sportsbook would have demanded I sign IRS forms.

Then in small increment longshot bet winnings a person can always find an 18 year old going school in their family with little income that could cash a betting ticket in their name.

Then I said to offset winning that all a person needs to do is to gather other peoples losing betting slips to show the IRS that they lost more than they won that year and here is the proof.Someone said that can't be done.

Personally since gambling for the most part has become part of the social service tax welfare system in this country with lotteries,Indian gaming,charitable pulltabs,horse racing run by ag groups with slot privileges etc.that there should be no taxes on gambling winnings because the states,charities etc.already are taking hefty juice-rake-vig out of the pot already and on average the steady players who win big payouts have already been taxed to death.

A few of the posters that replied to my earlier thread came across as very virtuous law abiding types who thought it was everyone's duty to be honest and pay taxes on gambling winnings even when they would never have been discovered to have won allot of money gambling by the IRS.In my opinion if there is anyway you can avoid paying taxes illegally or legally by finding loopholes,go for it!!!!!All the taxes go down the friggin socialist spending rathole anyway!

[BrentCrude]

The dumbest tax blunder on the history of poor people was perpetrated by Oprah.

Remember a few years back when Oprah got together with GM to give a couple hundred poor people in her audience free luxury cars?To make herself look good she gave them expensive cars instead of giving them perfectly good Chevy Cavaliers that at the time sold for 9k.If she would have given a person on welfare a Cavalier they would have had to pay hardly any taxes at all but allot of taxes on the luxury cars she gave them that cost 26k.I'll bet most people were put in the position of having to sell the cars she gave them because they couldn't afford the taxes.Then to boot it was taxes to be paid on the suggested retail value of the car instead of the discounted dealer price you can get as a consumer.

It would be a hoot to have a journalist do a story,Oprah's free car gifts,where are they now?I'll bet a hefty percentage were used in drive by's,dope deals,running over spouses and DUI accidents that killed and injured people etc.

[BrentCrude]

Another great tax blunder was when all the whacko lefty entertainers were given gift baskets at the Oscars,filled with worthless junk that was valued at 100K each or more?and then had to pay taxes on that 100k worth of worthless junk.Good for the bastards.hehe!I'm sure they gave the worthless junk as a charity to get out of paying the taxes.Some gay designer that created some 5K pair of jeans was probably pissed when Tom Cruise gave them to the Salvation Army where some stumblebum on skid row who gave the jeans no promotional value wore them away from the glamour of Hollywood.

[vanzack]

Dude - why did you start a new thread to continue the absurd conversation you started in the other thread?

Im not going to comment on your opinions stated here - those are your own - and whatever....

But your understanding of tax laws and how they apply to gambling winnings sounds like Paris Hilton trying to give advice on how to improve public image.

Here is the deal, I tried to explain it in the other thread, and no matter how many times you try to post it the tax law wont change:

1. There is no "IRS threshold" as you mention in paragraph 3 in the original post with reference to sports betting or casino gambling. They do withold from slots, parimutuals, lotteries, and bingo.
2. You are responsible for declaring your gambling winnings whether they are 2 bucks or 2 million bucks.
3. There is no advantage to spreading your betting tickets out over smaller bets (other than not filling out the 10K fincen report which has nothing to do with income).

Your idea of "picking up losing tickets" is one the IRS has never thought of. Let me fill you in on this one. If you were audited by the IRS, and you handed them a bunch of losing tickets - they are going to blow right past them and follow the money trail. They are not stupid. So when you take that 10K you won in cash and put it in your bank, and then say you spent 10K on losing tickets, they will simply ask "where did the money come from to pay for these losing tickets"? Yes you can keep large amounts of cash, but this gets messy and the IRS will also make it very difficult for you.

Losing tickets are no better or worse than a handwritten diary of casino play. If you wanted to say you lost 10K gambling, all you have to do is have a diary entry of the game you were playing and the details about it - but rest assured they will want to know where the money came from - just the same as picking up losing tickets.

There are no "loopholes" as you call them, or at least not any that you mention in this thread.

I suggest you brush up on your gambling tax laws before making these sweeping assumptions (incorrectly) about how things work.

[BrentCrude]

Knock knock puddinhead Vanzcek,anyone home in boyscout land???

What are you Vanscak,some kind of boy scout that can't tell a lie or someone who thinks the government doesn't give tax amnesty to crooks at their arbitrary discretion or who gives 5 year income tax free breaks to immigrants who get government loans to buy motels from coast to coast.

OK,here is my point,yes,technically if you worship the government and believe they are good and spend money wisely you pay taxes on every single penny you make as income.If you get a free toaster for starting a bank account you probably have to pay 40 cents extra on your income tax.I imagine there are paper trails to send up red flags at the IRS auditing office to catch you on many petty non payment of taxes.

But here is the point in concrete I am making.You put 3 quarters in a slot machine at my local casino and hit $1199 jackpot you DO NOT have to sign an IRS tax form.You put 3 quarters in the slot machine and hit a $1200 jackpot,they make you sign an IRS tax form before they pay you the $1200.They set the machines purposely to pay $1199 instead of $1200 just to please the players so they don't have to fill out the IRS tax form.It's wink wink,nod nod by the Indians making it a point to help you conceal not having to pay taxes.They make jokes about this kind of thing that whoever wins will stick it to the government not paying them taxes on the $1199.Ya,of course if you are a paranoid honest scarediecat that loves the government you will pay the taxes on this $1199.The odds of them finding out are slim and none.I suppose the government could be in on the whole thing with an agent from the IRS sitting in the casno surveilance room setting people up.

[increasedodds]

This guy is a ****ing moron!!!

Can someone delete his crap - posting about not paying taxes is just bad... Someone will follow his advice and get ****ed.

Sean

[vanzack]

What are you Vanscak,some kind of boy scout that can't tell a lie or someone who thinks the government doesn't give tax amnesty to crooks at their arbitrary discretion or who gives 5 year income tax free breaks to immigrants who get government loans to buy motels from coast to coast.

OK,here is my point,yes,technically if you worship the government and believe they are good and spend money wisely you pay taxes on every single penny you make as income.If you get a free toaster for starting a bank account you probably have to pay 40 cents extra on your income tax.I imagine there are paper trails to send up red flags at the IRS auditing office to catch you on many petty non payment of taxes.

But here is the point in concrete I am making.You put 3 quarters in a slot machine at my local casino and hit $1199 jackpot you DO NOT have to sign an IRS tax form.You put 3 quarters in the slot machine and hit a 41200 jackpot,they make you sign an IRS tax form before they pay you the $1200.They set the machines purposely to pay $1199 instead of $1200 just to please the players so they don't have to fill out the IRS tax form.

1. You have changed your point 3 times so far. Now you are trying to say your original point was slot machines? You were talking about sports betting. Obviously.

2. Your views on taxes belong in a political forum. You were commenting on tax laws as they apply to gambling, and all of your facts are wrong. I am not commenting on the virtues of the IRS or its spending - I AM commenting on your lack of understanding of gambling tax code, which is similar to a 5th grader on crack.

[vanzack]

BTW - Your original post talked about how nobody could make 100K gambling and how you are an "idiot" if you had that much offshore.

Your subsequent posts shed light on why you have these ideas.

The IRS isnt interested in the guy who wins 1k in a slot machine. The IRS is interested in guys who win big money gambling. So you are right, in your world you probably have very little risk hiding your winnings (im sure you lose), but there are those that deal with big numbers that are almost impossible to hide.

And if the IRS audits one of these guys, they would be very interested at the results.

Now I know from your posts you dont think these folks exist or they are just "idiots" - but you tell me who is the idiot - the guy who gives advice on how to evade taxes and makes 1k in a slot machine - or the guy who clears a million gambling and pays every cent in taxes?

Thought so....

[goldengoat]

ghost account

[BrentCrude]

OK,one more time ,,,a one a two a three,,,instead of placing a $25 bet on the Rams to win the Super Bowl in 99 at 200-1 at a famous downtown Vegas sportsbook,I made 5 $5 bets.When I won I asked the sportsbook manager if I had to file an IRS form.He said no,you are under the reporting guidline by a few hundred dollars on each betting ticket.I did not pay taxes on the wins!!!!!!1No one found out and no one ever will!!!!!!!!!!!If I won 200-1 on $25 and they made me sign an Irs form and I didn't pay taxes,I probably would have been audited and forced to pay the tax and a penalty.

[vanzack]

OK,one more time ,,,a one a two a three,,,instead of placing a $25 bet on the Rams to win the Super Bowl in 99 at 200-1 at a famous downtown Vegas sportsbook,I made 5 $5 bets.When I won I asked the sportsbook manager if I had to file an IRS form.He said no,you are under the reporting guidline by a few hundred dollars on each betting ticket.I did not pay taxes on the wins!!!!!!1No one found out and no one ever will!!!!!!!!!!!If I won 200-1 on $25 and they made me sign an Irs form and I didn't pay taxes,I probably would have been audited and forced to pay the tax and a penalty.

You really cant be this stupid, I have explained this to you 4 times.

Here is #5....

If you win 1 million dollars on your sports bet you dont fill out an IRS form.

Read that again.

Now, read it again.

Your argument is flagged for 15 yards for incorrect factual statement and lack of understand of tax law.

Please dont make me explain this again.

[BrentCrude]

Ever deal in stock certificates?They have a line on the back where a relative can receive the stock as a gift.Lets say I make 80K income a year.I buy 1 million shares of penny stock in my name for $100.All of a sudden the stock goes up to a value of $7000.I have my 18 year old nephew who's in school with no income receive the stock from me as a gift.He sells it and gives me the procedes and doesn't owe any taxes because he didn't have any income that year.There are easy ways around paying taxes.

We have a homestead tax law in the state I live.You can get a huge tax break on the property you live in,one per customer.Lets say you have a beautiful lake cabin that's worth 300K.You put it in your 18 year old daughters name and she gets the homestead tax credit paying a fraction of the property tax on it..

I actually know people who are too honest,too stupid and too proud to manipulate the system that it meant to be manipulated to help you aqueeze out a living.You pay enough in taxes that you have to,,don't look for excuses to pay taxes when you don't have to.


You can do the same with betting tickets.Get your 18 year old broke nephew to cash any big winning ticket and he doesn't pay taxes on it.


I don't want to argue the real point of this whole argument.Ask a sportsbook or slots manager why they won't pay you until you sign a form when you win a sportsbet or jackpot that reaches about $1200-may be $1500 by now where they wouldn't make you sign the form to get paid if it's a dollar under that amount.Plain and simple!

[vanzack]

Ever deal in stock certificates?They have a line on the back where a relative can receive the stock as a gift.Lets say I make 80K income a year.I buy 1 million shares of penny stock in my name for $100.All of a sudden the stock goes up to a value of $7000.I have my 18 year old nephew who's in school with no income receive the stock from me as a gift.He sells it and gives me the procedes and doesn't owe any taxes because he didn't have any income that year.There are easy ways around paying taxes.

We have a homestead tax law in the state I live.You can get a huge tax break on the property you live in,one per customer.Lets say you have a beautiful lake cabin that's worth 300K.You put it in your 18 year old daughters name and she gets the homestead tax credit paying a fraction of the property tax on it..

I actually know people who are too honest,too stupid and too proud to manipulate the system that it meant to be manipulated to help you aqueeze out a living.You pay enough in taxes that you have to,,don't look for excuses to pay taxes when you don't have to.

You must have attention deficit disorder, its pretty clear you are not a rational thinking person, and I am debating a monkey.

I looked over your previous posts and it is clear you are posting from a bunker somewhere with stockpiles of weapons waiting for the overthrow of our useless government when you will be able to finally have the power you deserve.

Until then.....

[ShamsWoof10]

This tax that you guys are speaking of... Would it be "income tax" you are paying or something/s else..?

Someone started a thread about Alex Jones radio show and when I listened to him quite a bit he had a guy on who use to work for the IRS.... He was backing AJones in that you are NOT LEGALLY obligated to pay "income tax"... He explains why and I have a membership to all these GCN shows archives and more then one show talked about this... I'll see if I can find it in the archives and see what he is talking about... He wrote a book on it too actually... I'll try and find the title... I am not claiming this is FACT I am just saying he sounded convincing... I liked reading the posts... Very interesting...

[vanzack]

And I have a very good feeling that the reason you get away with all of your tax schemes is that the IRS is not interested in seizing a 1982 Ford Pinto when they get their judgement against you.

[vanzack]

This tax that you guys are speaking of... Would it be "income tax" you are paying or something/s else..?

Someone started a thread about Alex Jones radio show and when I listened to him quite a bit he had a guy on who use to work for the IRS.... He was backing AJones in that you are NOT LEGALLY obligated to pay "income tax"... He explains why and I have a membership to all these GCN shows archives and more then one show talked about this... I'll see if I can find it in the archives and see what he is talking about... He wrote a book on it too actually... I'll try and find the title... I am not claiming this is FACT I am just saying he sounded convincing... I liked reading the posts... Very interesting...

Oh boy, countdown until the original poster tells us how you dont have to pay taxes.

Look, before you do anything along these lines, do some basic research. This is one of the biggest myths out there. Just ask the people who have tried to use this as a defense and ended up in federal prison - the latest are the dentist and his wife holed up in Connecticut right now as the feds figure out a way to get them out.

I am making no comments about the usefulness of our tax code anywhere in this thread or anywhere else, Im simply giving out the facts, something that the original poster has absolutely zero grasp of.

[austintx05]

...and our halftime score is

Vanzack 21
BrentCrude 0

[vanzack]

This tax that you guys are speaking of... Would it be "income tax" you are paying or something/s else..?

Someone started a thread about Alex Jones radio show and when I listened to him quite a bit he had a guy on who use to work for the IRS.... He was backing AJones in that you are NOT LEGALLY obligated to pay "income tax"... He explains why and I have a membership to all these GCN shows archives and more then one show talked about this... I'll see if I can find it in the archives and see what he is talking about... He wrote a book on it too actually... I'll try and find the title... I am not claiming this is FACT I am just saying he sounded convincing... I liked reading the posts... Very interesting...

Simple google search got these:

http://www.savingadvice.com/blog/2007/02/23/101185_10-stupid-arguments-for-not-paying-your-income-taxes.html

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf (read pages 4 through 12)

[austintx05]

vanzack - I think this Brent guy would be a great fit at covers

[ShamsWoof10]

Oh boy, countdown until the original poster tells us how you dont have to pay taxes.

Look, before you do anything along these lines, do some basic research. This is one of the biggest myths out there. Just ask the people who have tried to use this as a defense and ended up in federal prison - the latest are the dentist and his wife holed up in Connecticut right now as the feds figure out a way to get them out.

I am making no comments about the usefulness of our tax code anywhere in this thread or anywhere else, Im simply giving out the facts, something that the original poster has absolutely zero grasp of.

LOOK AS*HOLE I didn't say it was a FACT I said this guy is at least worth listening to... If he used to work for the IRS (and I don't think it's legal to come on a radiio show and say you did when you did NOT) then you're telling me it's not worth listening to..?

If you're so smart then I'll post his explantion and you can debunk it at your lesiure... If you do with success then kudos to you....

[BrentCrude]

I thought everyone was casino savvy here where you have been there,done that to the 10 th power when it comes to sportsbook and casino dealing and innerworkings.You mean you actually don't know about the dreaded form you are obligated to sign if you win a large lump sum of money in a sportsbook-casino?

[vanzack]

vanzack - I think this Brent guy would be a great fit at covers

He actually might not pass the entrance exam, which is saying a lot.

[vanzack]

LOOK AS*HOLE I didn't say it was a FACT I said this guy is at least worth listening to... If he used to work for the IRS (and I don't think it's legal to come on a radiio show and say you did when you did NOT) then you're telling me it's not worth listening to..?

Im not an asshole, not sure what in my response to you made you think that, and I never told you its not worth listening to.

I will tell you that if you follow his advice without reading the material I referenced above, you might find yourself on the wrong side of the law.

[BrentCrude]

Shams is technically right.The government goofed on the income tax ammendment but the socialists that need and waste money in this country don't care about technicalities when you are on the right side of the law when it comes to them not getting their tax money to throw down rat holes.

[ShamsWoof10]

Simple google search got these:

http://www.savingadvice.com/blog/2007/02/23/101185_10-stupid-arguments-for-not-paying-your-income-taxes.html

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf (read pages 4 through 12)

and I'm not ignorant... when presented with info. I will look at it.... I will look through this info. as well now....

Excuse me for misunderstanding apparently...

[vanzack]

I thought everyone was casino savvy here where you have been there,done that to the 10 th power when it comes to sportsbook and casino dealing and innerworkings.You mean you actually don't know about the dreaded form you are obligated to sign if you win a large lump sum of money in a sportsbook-casino?

Which form is this? Please tell me about it....

Funny thing is, the last several times I have won "large lump sums" at a casino and sportsbook I didnt have to sign your "form".

If you are able to tell me which form it is I think I need to go back and ammend my previous returns to include this form. Please help me.

[vanzack]

and I'm not ignorant... when presented with info. I will look at it.... I will look through this info. as well now....

Excuse me for misunderstanding apparently...

Who called you ignorant?

Why so defensive?

I tried to answer your question thoroughly.

[BrentCrude]

FDR the anti christ started our socialist slippery slope and it won't be long now and our whole income will be confiscated and we will be taken care of being put in a government camp and be given an allowance and told to turn the lights out at 9 P.M,not to smoke,eat french fries,no nutri sweet,because they know what's best for us and we should all know that authority figures in government have to be trusted and respected.

[vanzack]

Shams is technically right.The government goofed on the income tax ammendment but the socialists that need and waste money in this country don't care about technicalities when you are on the right side of the law when it comes to them not getting their tax money to throw down rat holes.

And there it is.

I predicted this several posts up.

And shams you are yelling at me?

[vanzack]

FDR the anti christ started our socialist slippery slope and it won't be long now and our whole income will be confiscated and we will be taken care of being put in a government camp and be given an allowance and told to turn the lights out at 9 P.M,not to smoke,eat french fries,no nutri sweet,because they know what's best for us and we should all know that authority figures in government have to be trusted and respected.

Profile of Brent Crude:

80 years old
Lives in bunker
Has over 100 weapons
Constantly talks of good old days
Waiting for the overthrow of the "socialist" govt
Has ADD but is too old to have ever been diagnosed

[BrentCrude]

Vanzack,a serious ?????are you a Hillary voter?That would explain allot!

[vanzack]

Vanzack,a serious ?????are you a Hillary voter?

I dont talk politics. This is a gambling forum. You stated absolute horsheshit facts about the tax code, amongst other horseshit spread in.

I couldnt care less what you think of the govt or tax code.

I can tell you that you havent had one single "fact" about the tax code yet. That could come from your obvious lack of experience winning money gambling, or your tainted view of the facts due to your political persuasion - but at the end of the day your advice is useless because it is all easily proven false.

Good luck to you.

[ShamsWoof10]

This is one of the biggest myths out there. Just ask the people who have tried to use this as a defense and ended up in federal prison

I did know someone who was in the "free man" movement and those guys are funny as hell... They do get away with it but from what I was told the courts won't make it easy because they know everyone would jump on the wagon... Some of the things he told me they tried to do is hilarious... One guy fought it for 2 years and won... He didn't have to pay taxes on anything because he won the right to give up his social security number...

The way I understood it was it is NOT illegal to NOT have a social security number... You legally have to have one to participate in the game that is created for us... He gave up his social security number therefore no longer being a property of the state.... What was absolutely HILARIOUS (I laughed for hours) was the judge made this hell for the guy and he requested an arrest warrant for the judge sighting that the judge was violating his constitutional rights... Like I clearly said this is not first hand knowledge but it was funny... He swears it's true... I ask him to tell me the story everytime I see him... I find it that funny...

[ShamsWoof10]

And there it is.

I predicted this several posts up.

And shams you are yelling at me?

No dude relax I'm trying to read your sh*t... There are a lot of pages here so it'll be a few....

Can some please do me an experient I would appreciate an effort at least... I do not have to tools to do it... Get a check and where there is a line to sign your name look really really close ..you may have to blow it WAAAY up... that is not a line... Tell me what it says... I actually forgot but it does say something.... Keep in mind that the ways I believe this guy claimed you can get around it is not just anyone walking up and saying I ain't got it no... I think he may actually be right but there is A LOT to it then that.... still reading....

[BrentCrude]

Honesty is for stupid people.When I was in high school boys skip day was the first Monday of deer season.All of a sudden all the boys mysteriously had colds and when they came back on Tuesday morning with absence excuses written by parents they all got away with it.Mind you,most of these kids with the bogus excuses were below average students.So the valedictorian math wiz saint that never did a thing wrong in his life and had perfect attendance records told the principal the truth that he went deer hunting and skipped school.The Valedictorian got detention.Ever since seeing this crap how the system has worked it sent a message to me to cheat,lie,bend the rules etc.Look where that way of life got Bill Clinton.