U.S. debate on health care is a warning to Canadians

[reno cool]

for what its worth i believe the way you do .when i was 18 to 26 i had farm bureu insurance.i never used it but it didnt stop my premiums to double.i did what i thought was right so i droped it.well when i got 33 i wrecked my back in a freak accident.i put off having back surgery because i didnt have insurance.i didnt know my rights.i spent over 12,000 in nerve blocks,chiropractor[big damn rip off that was]had decompresions. that straightend my back out,but because i waited so long to get somethingdone i tore the tendons in my left knee.iam lucky i didnt have nerve damage.my mom is a nurse at the hospital,and she found out about revocational rehab.this is when i had to have surgery again.on my back.what has pissed me off the most in this ordeal is when i go to the er they demand money every time.i paid the one time.the next time i saw some black guys jumping up,and down.pretending to be hurt,and they didnt pay shit.i told my dad that was the last ****ing time i will ever pay the er.when i go to the family doctor i have to pay 60 dollars while people on medicade pay nothing.i pay around 300 for my meds.i take cymbalto.protonix,pain meds,and soma.people on medicade pay nothing.they have the free health.something needs to happen good for the middle class,because in few years we wont exsist.

this is what has to stop.
Many people believe they cannot afford to see a doctor.
1. they believe they will be required to pay what they straight up cant.
2. Also if they happen to get diagnosed with something there's fear of losing a job and being denied any future insurance.
Now some of this is pop culture propaganda. The medical establishment doesn't particularly want you to know about whatever rights or programs that may indeed be available.

btw, don't offer to pay anything in the er. They will ask. But they cannot deny treatment if you refuse. Once you get the bill take it to the trash can where it belongs.

[topcat]

this is what has to stop.
Many people believe they cannot afford to see a doctor.
1. they believe they will be required to pay what they straight up cant.
2. Also if they happen to get diagnosed with something there's fear of losing a job and being denied any future insurance.
Now some of this is pop culture propaganda. The medical establishment doesn't particularly want you to know about whatever rights or programs that may indeed be available.

btw, don't offer to pay anything in the er. They will ask. But they cannot deny treatment if you refuse. Once you get the bill take it to the trash can where it belongs.

reno, i dont offer to pay when i go to the er,it just seems like they pick certain people out to go up to the receptionist.i paid the first time,but the next time i told her the check was in the mail.my dad has also told me to do the same thing you said.he also found out years a go from a freind of his who got sick.to take everything out of your name.

[BadNina]

WalMart has close to a 100% turnover bc its benefits are fukin awful, first off you start off with almost no pay, lets say 50 cents over min wage comparable to what a 16 yr old makes for entertainment money at the local McDs and their health insurance benefits are the worst anywhere they offer literally such limited health benefits its basically only useful in the event of catastrophic illness like cancer, routine visits etc are not covered such as child vaccinations, flu shots etc and of course its still a 1/3 paid by the employee for junk health insurance that 40% of its employees opt out of its so bad on top of that overtime is almost impossible at Walmart its considered grounds for firing if a manager has workers getting overtime in consecutive weeks, so you've got a 40 hr/wk 8 dollar an hour job lifting TVs for WalMart for 280 wk take home - the 1/3 premium for the shit health benefits that half the workers opt out of and you are informed you can put away some of that 250 a week you have left into a 401k?

Are you serious Nina, you are a woman so I understand that sex is generally all thats required in order to get your bills paid but for the men in the audience that pay their own bills I can assure you 250 a week aint gonna leave you with much cash to contribute to a retirement plan

Let's look at the people who generally work at your local WalMart store. I get that you are from TN so I will type slowly so you can understand them. Most of the ones here are either college students, older people looking to supplement their income or your basic high school drop outs. The first category isn't working there to make it their life time employment. The second is either supplementing their income or they are bored, wanting to still feel useful and enjoy working. The third...well they have the option of taking their GED's, going to college and getting a better job. What is WalMart suppose to pay them? Minimum wage is suppose to be a starting point for a job. If you have worked at the same place for 5 years and still make minimum wage, then you must suck ass as an employee. People are NOT entitled to making huge amounts of money. They have to get off their asses and earn it. WalMart pays fair market wages. The same people can go work for their competition if they pay more. No one makes them stay there. I am seriously sick of people whining about not being taken care of.

[bettilimbroke999]

This thread is about being able to afford the basic need of health care Nina and that it should be available to all Americans, I realize that when ppl get pneumonia and want to live its very upsetting to you that they be allowed to receive antibiotics even though they're not born rich , if your head was removed from your ass and your chromsomal makeup included a Y you might see things differently

[BadNina]

I get that you are too slow to grasp the fact that Alabama has free medical clinics for people who have no insurance. I also get that you cannot grasp the fact that children whose parents meet the financial guidelines qualify for Medicaid. Or AllKids. I get that you cannot comprehend all the studies, time and effort it takes to develop any of this magical medication you think should be handed out with free cocktail weenies at your local grocery store. I get that you cannot grasp the simple concept that if insurance companies, doctors and hospitals had to compete with each other that prices would go down. No, you need the government to do everything for you, probably including wiping your ass.

Now, unless you say something really assine (which is a possibility), I am so done with you. Love ya!

[MeSoCrazy]

Competition always benefits the consumers.

[reno cool]

It's a shitty system Nina. Yeh, there are programs available for various situations. But it's a big pain and many people don't fit the various criteria. Medicaid is fine if you can get it. I'm not aware of any clinics here which are free to anyone without insurance.

Let's just get people treated without the mumbo jumbo, paperwork, insurance vig,collections, and all the other leeches that make a killing off the medical industry. Use those resources for treatment.

[bettilimbroke999]

It's a shitty system Nina. Yeh, there are programs available for various situations. But it's a big pain and many people don't fit the various criteria. Medicaid is fine if you can get it. I'm not aware of any clinics here which are free to anyone without insurance.

Let's just get people treated without the mumbo jumbo, paperwork, insurance vig,collections, and all the other leeches that make a killing off the medical industry. Use those resources for treatment.

Exactly reno, there are some highly underfunded health departments here in TN for prostitutes to get STD tests etc but it is nothing close to any form of reasonable health care.

Nina you are a woman, you are not intelligent and it is unimportant for you to agree with me since the only thing a woman is good for is cookin cleanin suckin and fukin none of which qualifies them for intellectual debate but since some bitch sucked off enough politicians to get equal rights even though a woman has never contributed to the progress of any country in history Ill talk to you as if your a human of comparable intelligence.

In TN we have something called TennCare it is the govts health insurance plan for the abjectly poor, yes I know ppl who are poor shouldnt be allowed to live but lets pretend that we're all human and have compassion for even those worthless scumbags without high paying jobs representing around 20% of the country. Now it opened eligibility in 1994 and closed eligibility in 1995 for one year in my state if you were poor enough you could get on this program but since the eligibility closed in 95 it doesnt matter how fukin poor you are you aint getting free health care in TN if you're over 21 and not disabled, that's the facts okay Nina, your a woman so facts dont normally compute into your decision making but thats the absolute truth, you have ppl who need medical care who are unable to afford and receive it, their options lie in filling up the ER whenever they get sick (preventing the treatment of real emergencies) and going bankrupt following receiving the bill for what amounts to the highest by far form of treatment so essentially you might as well call any immediate medical care they need bankruptcy care and on top of that any followup treatment they need is unavailable. The govt insuring that basic needs are within reach of all Americans is not having the govt "wipe your ass", thats absolutely ridiculous, if Kroger/WalMart decided tomorrow to make milk 100 bucks a gallon would u say I was wanting the govt to wipe my ass if I thought they should step in and do something about making a basic need affordable to all, absolutely ridiculous, do the dishes and leave the complex thinking to the men

[andywend]

btw, don't offer to pay anything in the er. They will ask. But they cannot deny treatment if you refuse. Once you get the bill take it to the trash can where it belongs.

Its one thing not being able to come up with the money to pay for emergency room care due to a lack of funds and quite another to feel like the bill belongs in the trash. Why on Earth should any doctor go through the trouble of fixing whatever medical problem you have if you feel his bill belongs in the trash can? Do you feel the same way when your car breaks down? I have no doubt you would be the first one in line to file a malpractice lawsuit against the physician and hospital while refusing to pay for his services at the same time.

In a perfect world, emergency rooms would be able to take your thumbprint and immediately find out what a deadbeat you are and allow you to die right in the middle of the waiting room for all to see.

Opponents of socialized health care should make a commercial using your above statement to show the voters the mentality of the average person who supports socializing our medical care system.

By far and away, the most DISGUSTING post I have ever come across since I joined this forum more than 2 years ago.

Nina you are a woman, you are not intelligent and it is unimportant for you to agree with me since the only thing a woman is good for is cookin cleanin suckin and fukin none of which qualifies them for intellectual debate but since some bitch sucked off enough politicians to get equal rights even though a woman has never contributed to the progress of any country in history Ill talk to you as if your a human of comparable intelligence.

I'll bet Nina makes a whole lot more than $8/hour.

[Pokerjoe]

[quote=andywend;2291903]
In a perfect world, emergency rooms would be able to take your thumbprint and immediately find out what a deadbeat you are and allow you to die right in the middle of the waiting room for all to see.

quote]

You are diseased. Get help.

[reno cool]

Its one thing not being able to come up with the money to pay for emergency room care due to a lack of funds and quite another to feel like the bill belongs in the trash. Why on Earth should any doctor go through the trouble of fixing whatever medical problem you have if you feel his bill belongs in the trash can? Do you feel the same way when your car breaks down? I have no doubt you would be the first one in line to file a malpractice lawsuit against the physician and hospital while refusing to pay for his services at the same time.

In a perfect world, emergency rooms would be able to take your thumbprint and immediately find out what a deadbeat you are and allow you to die right in the middle of the waiting room for all to see.

Opponents of socialized health care should make a commercial using your above statement to show the voters the mentality of the average person who supports socializing our medical care system.

By far and away, the most DISGUSTING post I have ever come across since I joined this forum more than 2 years ago.

I'll bet Nina makes a whole lot more than $8/hour.

1. mechanics aren't doctors. (and yes I would support suing both at first opportunity)
2. It's called civil disobedience. Learn about it
3. I'm well aware that you're the head idiot here. I'm glad my post disgusts you.

[losturmarbles]

1. mechanics aren't doctors. (and yes I would support suing both at first opportunity)
2. It's called civil disobedience. Learn about it
3. I'm well aware that you're the head idiot here. I'm glad my post disgusts you.

civil disobedience is/was a way to protest unfair laws. so what's unfair about paying for a service that you use?
oh yeah that's right, health care is suppose to be free.

of course, health care requires the labor of someone else, so basically you are claiming a right to part of their life, that you OWN part of that person.
but civil disobedience was used to protest slavery, yet you are trying to use it to endorse slavery.

civil disobedience was based on the fact that the judgment of an individual's conscience is not inferior to the decisions of a political body or majority, yet you endorse people to ignore personal responsibility and judgment and trust the government.

maybe you should learn about civil disobedience.

[reno cool]

civil disobedience can be used against most anything, and most commonly used to fight the status quo...as in your own example. But I'm sure some famous right-wing reactionary turned meaning on it's head to rationalize some agenda. Hence, your understanding of it.
If you don't want to take on the responsibilities of being a doctor be a mechanic. If your primary concern is to make $ try a different profession.

[jon101]

I guess canadians on the dying list thats so long that come to America for healthcare will have to die too.
Once we add 49 million new people to the insurance rolls we need to double the cost for mouthy canadians.

[losturmarbles]

civil disobedience can be used against most anything, and most commonly used to fight the status quo...as in your own example. But I'm sure some famous right-wing reactionary turned meaning on it's head to rationalize some agenda. Hence, your understanding of it.
If you don't want to take on the responsibilities of being a doctor be a mechanic. If your primary concern is to make $ try a different profession.

just when i thought you couldn't look any more foolish...

so Henry David Thoreau is a right-wing reactionary? (whatever that is)

yeah people can twist word's meanings to rationalize some agenda, because that is exactly what you are doing!

so it's a doctor responsibility to GIVE away health care? i think youre blurring the lines between charity and slavery.

and now it's immoral to be motivated by profit? oh, no just doctors. why? because you say so. because your moral compass is more just than theirs.

modern medicine wouldn't exist if it wasn't for profit motive. so wrap your head around that one. for that matter, socialism is non-existent without capitalism. socialism is nothing but political pursuit of failures in the free market appealing to ignorant collectivists. so which one are you?

[reno cool]

I realize I have to break everything down for you into little bits.
Do you believe that a person should be required to have a license or degree to practice medicine? Do you believe a doctor should have to abide by certain codes of conduct (as they do)? Or would you feel better if there was no standard?

[andywend]

1. mechanics aren't doctors. (and yes I would support suing both at first opportunity)

Do you believe that a person should be required to have a license or degree to practice medicine?

So under your warped left-wing lunatic thinking, mechanics deserve to be paid for their services but doctor bills belong in the trash?

Why would any intelligent person go through the long journey of becoming a physician if they aren't going to be compensated for their services?

By the way, your only hope of ever achieving financial security is in a courtroom so I understand how quick on the trigger you must be to get that malpractice lawsuit filed. Any doctor that makes the mistake of helping you when the need arises is going to pay dearly for it.

Thank goodness you have very little in your life as anything else would be a travesty.

Maybe Obama is on to something with his socialized medicine push. If passed, it will result in a serious deterioration in the quality of medical care people like you receive and you won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

On the other hand, hard-working conservatives will have the financial resources to go outside Obamacare and continue to get the high quality medical care they are currently receiving. Its a shame the hard-working middle class is going to get screwed in the deal.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY USELESS in every sense of the word. You're all TAKE and no GIVE.

Pokerjoe, the same goes for you.

[losturmarbles]

I realize I have to break everything down for you into little bits.
Do you believe that a person should be required to have a license or degree to practice medicine? Do you believe a doctor should have to abide by certain codes of conduct (as they do)? Or would you feel better if there was no standard?

1. no.
2. ambiguous question.
3. unclear premise.

what has that got to do with stealing health care?

yes please break it down for me. you seem to confuse slavery (forced to give) and charity (freely given by individual choice). of course this doesnt surprise me, since you see no value in individual freedom.

[MeSoCrazy]

If Jesus offered a public option

Would you be opposed? Seriously. Lets say Jesus floats down from the sky, sets up a government and rules the Earth. I'm sure it would be a democracy. Do you think he would want health care for all? Or would those that are poor or have preconditions be screwed and told to "go to hell"?

[MeSoCrazy]

If Jesus was a health insurance CEO


Would he profit by denying a procedure that would save someone's life? I'm an atheist and wouldn't do that but what about Jesus and you guys that are Christian? Would he? Would you?

[Willie Bee]

If Jesus was a health insurance CEO

Would he profit by denying a procedure that would save someone's life? I'm an atheist and wouldn't do that but what about Jesus and you guys that are Christian? Would he? Would you?

Yeah, but if it was really Jesus as Jesus is presented, what procedure other than touching the sick are we talking about. How much does an MRI machine cost to build, operate and maintain as opposed to the touch of Jesus' hand?

By the way MeSo, check your e-mail for a message from me.

[reno cool]

1. The courtroom is the recourse the public has, and should be encouraged to use. Otherwise scumbags like the ones you aspire to be would run even more rampant.
2. A doctor absolutely needs to care for the well being of their patients. Most do. If you don't and are solely motivated by profit we don't want you.
3. Among a multitude of standards placed upon those providing medicine including hospitals, clinics, doctors, one must a be a mandate to treat everyone. It is really not a radical concept.
4. It is absolutely disgraceful that a country who finds trillions of $ to fight illegal wars for the benefit of business elites and other scum would even have the nerve to deny it's own people basic necessities.

[reno cool]

1. no.
2. ambiguous question.
3. unclear premise.

what has that got to do with stealing health care?

yes please break it down for me. you seem to confuse slavery (forced to give) and charity (freely given by individual choice). of course this doesnt surprise me, since you see no value in individual freedom.

So anyone can practice medicine as long as they can convince someone to be their patient? And once that person gets hurt, well he's just shit out of luck? He should have hired an investigator before going to a doctor.

[losturmarbles]

1. The courtroom is the recourse the public has, and should be encouraged to use. Otherwise scumbags like the ones you aspire to be would run even more rampant.
2. A doctor absolutely needs to care for the well being of their patients. Most do. If you don't and are solely motivated by profit we don't want you.
3. Among a multitude of standards placed upon those providing medicine including hospitals, clinics, doctors, one must a be a mandate to treat everyone. It is really not a radical concept.
4. It is absolutely disgraceful that a country who finds trillions of $ to fight illegal wars for the benefit of business elites and other scum would even have the nerve to deny it's own people basic necessities.

1. since when you care about the law? the courtroom is the recourse the hospital has too when it goes after deadbeats who refuse to pay.
2. when was this being debated? everyone is motivated by their own self interest. and that includes acquiring wealth or money. those that scoff at the idea of profit motive are hypocrites. (including you)
3. says who? you? mandating charity? that's an oxymoron. you on the other hand, lack the oxy.
4. what country are we talking about? the only countries i know of that deny people basic necessities are socialist strongholds.

[reno cool]

You keep trying to convince yourself that people are primarily motivated by wealth and consumption. But, this is not true. People are motivated by many things. I see little need for encouraging the most base type of behavior.
Treating all is not charity, but a requirement, just like using proper equipment or keeping a clean operating area.

[losturmarbles]

You keep trying to convince yourself that people are primarily motivated by wealth and consumption. But, this is not true. People are motivated by many things. I see little need for encouraging the most base type of behavior.
Treating all is not charity, but a requirement, just like using proper equipment or keeping a clean operating area.

you keep trying to convince yourself that somehow forcing doctors to give away health care has some kind of moral justification.

funny how someone that has a stake in gambling denies the motive of profit. i don't even understand how a socialist can rationalize making sports bets or playing poker. your success directly depends on the failure of others. so either you are a complete failure at gambling and have this socialist chip on your shoulder or you're a complete hypocrite.
you won the poker tourney at the bash, correct? so did you share your winnings with those that didn't make the money? no?, you greedy bastard. do you give people back their buy-in after you win a poker tourney? do you re-up people that lose an all-in bet? do you give away your winnings to someone who blew their whole bankroll?

[reno cool]

there's a difference between a game and matters of life and death, isn't there?
but I wouldn't say I never gave $ to a fellow gambler.

[losturmarbles]

there's a difference between a game and matters of life and death, isn't there?
but I wouldn't say I never gave $ to a fellow gambler.

sure there is, but the issue isn't about denying health care to someone in matters of life and death. it's about whether or not the someone should have to pay for it.

you know what, i think there should be a law that the top 5% of winners in gambling should compensate all the losers. the people must demand it!!!

[andywend]

RenoCool said:

Treating all is not charity, but a requirement, just like using proper equipment or keeping a clean operating area.

Absolutely incorrect!!!

If a person refuses to pay for services provided by a physician, they will be turned away and RIGHTFULLY SO.

If you believe differently, then you should have no objection in telling the physician up-front you will NOT be paying for his services and plan on throwing his bill in the trash can. We'll see if that physician still treats you or shows you the door.

All that is needed to convince any reasonable person to oppose the democratic party is to have a conversation with you. They will be life-long conservatives within a few minutes.

[BadNina]

Right now, here in my little bitty town, both CVS and WalGreens are offering flu shots for people. CVS has given about a total of 40 shots (info per the pharmacist giving them). WalGreens gives about 40 a day (info per one of the pharmacist giving them). The reason for the difference? CVS has one person certified to give the shots, so they can only be given when she is there and they charge $29.00 a shot. All pharmacist for WalGreens were certified and the shots cost $24.99. That is competition at work.

You want changes in the US health care system? Let insurance companies go into every state and start bidding on the right to do business with people. Give the people a choice and let them decide. I think the same would be great with doctors and hospitals. You want your tonsils out? Well Doc X charges XX amount of dollars and gives you a vanilla ice cream. Doc Y charges XX1/2 dollars, gives you chocolate ice cream with sprinkles. Let the public decide who they want to spend their money on. After all it is their money. They should get to decide.

[reno cool]

RenoCool said:

Absolutely incorrect!!!

If a person refuses to pay for services provided by a physician, they will be turned away and RIGHTFULLY SO.

If you believe differently, then you should have no objection in telling the physician up-front you will NOT be paying for his services and plan on throwing his bill in the trash can. We'll see if that physician still treats you or shows you the door.

All that is needed to convince any reasonable person to oppose the democratic party is to have a conversation with you. They will be life-long conservatives within a few minutes.

No, I'm telling the doctor he cannot practice medicine legally if he turns people away. Just like he has to obey a # of other regulations. If the govt needs to cover the associated expense, so be it. It would be one of the better expenditures the govt makes. The govt covers a lot of expenses to make this and every other industry viable. But I understand you morons only want the government involved when it benefits business.

[andywend]

I have the strong feeling you're all talk and full of hot air.

Have you ever paid a physicians bill or have you thrown all of them away in the trash?

Your politically correct bullshit isn't going to carry any weight with medical offices if you continue to stiff physicians. They will wind up doing exactly what I said they will do and thats show you the door.

If they continue to treat you even though you're throwing their bill in the trash, they deserve to find themselves in the defendant's chair while they are defending themselves against your frivolous lawsuit.

As I said earlier, people who act like you and talk like you NEVER have anything substantial to show for their efforts and spend their entire lives complaining about how unfair everything is.

Obama and the democrats can pass all the laws they want and there will still be plenty of quality physicians who will continue to operate in a private practice environment because Obama and these same democrats will NOT allow themselves or their families to suffer the horrors of a socialized medical delivery system.

These concierge type physicians will turn trash like you away and will do so without hesitation. While this will result in higher medical costs for me and my family, I realize how important quality medical care is and am more than willing to pay for it.

Since you are unwilling to do so, you will get exactly the medical care you deserve. In the end, things always work out the way they should.

[reno cool]

I have the strong feeling you're all talk and full of hot air.

Have you ever paid a physicians bill or have you thrown all of them away in the trash?

Your politically correct bullshit isn't going to carry any weight with medical offices if you continue to stiff physicians. They will wind up doing exactly what I said they will do and thats show you the door.

If they continue to treat you even though you're throwing their bill in the trash, they deserve to find themselves in the defendant's chair while they are defending themselves against your frivolous lawsuit.

As I said earlier, people who act like you and talk like you NEVER have anything substantial to show for their efforts and spend their entire lives complaining about how unfair everything is.

Obama and the democrats can pass all the laws they want and there will still be plenty of quality physicians who will continue to operate in a private practice environment because Obama and these same democrats will NOT allow themselves or their families to suffer the horrors of a socialized medical delivery system.

These concierge type physicians will turn trash like you away and will do so without hesitation. While this will result in higher medical costs for me and my family, I realize how important quality medical care is and am more than willing to pay for it.

Since you are unwilling to do so, you will get exactly the medical care you deserve. In the end, things always work out the way they should.

I understand that your only self worth comes from the desperate hope that someone else is or will suffer. It's OK. You weren't loved as a child. Maybe, somebody treated you bad. It's OK. It"really OK.

[Willie Bee]

[reno cool]

BTW, I'm saying that's the standard the public should demand and the law written accordingly. I'm not saying that anyone currently can demand medicine successfully.