U.S. debate on health care is a warning to Canadians

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  • betplom
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 09-20-06
    • 13444

    #1
    U.S. debate on health care is a warning to Canadians


    Linda McQuaig

    I'm inclined to believe the fierce resistance to health-care reform in the United States is the work of a small fringe.

    The other possibility is that there's something deep in the psyche of Americans that drives them to defend to the death their right to deny health care to millions of their fellow citizens.

    Some have attempted to downplay the scariness of recent protests against President Barack Obama's health reform efforts, noting that a lot of Americans protested George W. Bush as well.

    But the anti-Obama protesters are much more extreme – and yet are treated much more respectfully. When Obama spoke in Phoenix last month, about a dozen protesters showed up carrying guns, including one who was interviewed by the national media as he strutted about freely with an assault rifle slung over his shoulder. (Anti-Bush protesters got no such media attention, and would have been arrested – if not shot – had they shown up at presidential rallies bearing assault weapons.)

    While the U.S. media gave prime time to gun-toting health reform opponents, they all but ignored a Harvard study, reported last week in the American Journal of Public Health, that found nearly 45,000 people die in the U.S. each year largely because they lack health insurance.

    As resistance to U.S. health reform rages on – with its inane, vicious, even racist overtones – the fiasco should remind Canadians of the dangers of allowing our public health-care system to deteriorate.

    What makes health reform so elusive in the U.S. is the way its opponents – led by wealthy corporate interests – are able to play Americans off against each other.
    Americans are hunkered down in their own little bunkers, watching out just for themselves and their families. Anyone proposing reforms that might result in higher taxes is met with a rifle poked out the top of the bunker.

    It's this dynamic – citizens pitted against each other – that has kept Americans at each other's throats over health care for years. It's easy to understand, for instance, why middle class American taxpayers resent paying for medicaid, a public program that provides some coverage for the poor, when these same taxpayers can't afford coverage for themselves and their families.

    The only real solution is public health care for all. A Canadian-style plan could save Americans $400 billion a year, Harvard's Dr. David Himmelstein wrote recently in the New England Journal of Medicine.

    But Americans are so uninformed about the rest of the world that few even seem aware any Canadian can spend weeks in hospital getting state-of-the-art medical treatment and then walk out the front door without owing a penny. Such is the menace of public health care.

    Universal care is extremely popular once it's in place, but it can be hard to overcome resistance to putting it in place, as the current U.S. psychodrama shows. (Canada went through a less traumatic, but still difficult initiation.)
    All this should serve as a potent lesson to Canadians about the urgency of protecting our public health-care system. Once it starts to fall apart, the rich bolt from it, arrange for their own care and then object to paying taxes for a system they don't much use.

    The importance of avoiding this fate has never been more apparent than now, when the snarling fury of America's current crop of right-wing extremists almost makes one nostalgic for last year's gentler, childlike lunacy of Sarah Palin.
  • nosniboR11
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 09-02-08
    • 10042

    #2
    copy and paste your ignorant propaganda
    Comment
    • Shafted69
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 07-04-08
      • 6412

      #3
      Originally posted by nosniboR11
      copy and paste your ignorant propaganda
      60% of Doctors favor a public option.

      Comment
      • bettilimbroke999
        SBR Posting Legend
        • 02-04-08
        • 13254

        #4
        Great article and well said, neocons believe everything which involves treating poor citizens like humans is communist, in truth public education is far more socialist than public health care, I mean you can die from lack of health care you're not going to die from a lack of education
        Comment
        • betplom
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 09-20-06
          • 13444

          #5
          Originally posted by bettilimbroke999
          Great article and well said, neocons believe everything which involves treating citizens like humans is communist, in truth public education is far more socialist than public health care and mean you can die from a lack of health care you're not going to die from a lack of education
          I'm just a pinko, propaganda spewing, copy/paste artist doing my part.
          Comment
          • bettilimbroke999
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 02-04-08
            • 13254

            #6
            I honestly dont want to meet the doctor that feels the poor should be denied needed medical care bc they cant make the health insurance companies rich enough

            There could be a stronger argument made against public education, I can see a person getting by without algebra or trigonometry but when they break their leg I dont see em getting by with a bone stickin out of their leg for the rest of their life hoppin on their good leg
            Comment
            • Willie Bee
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 02-14-06
              • 15726

              #7
              Originally posted by betplom
              While the U.S. media gave prime time to gun-toting health reform opponents, they all but ignored a Harvard study, reported last week in the American Journal of Public Health, that found nearly 45,000 people die in the U.S. each year largely because they lack health insurance.
              I found this to be an interesting stat, plommer. I'd love to know what criteria was used to determine this number and exactly what it was these 45,000 died from.

              But just for fun, let's work on the assumption that their cause of death was: Not having health insurance.

              Now let's look at some other stats.

              The mortality rate in the US is about 810 per 100,000 people. I found one site that listed the US population at 305.5 million people. So that means that approximately 2.5 million people will die in the US this year.

              The number of Americans without any health insurance is generally bandied about to be 46 million. That works out to 15% of the population without health insurance, which is real close to the 17% figure that has also been tossed around in discussions recently.

              Now if there are 46,000,000 Americans walking around without health insurance, and 45,000 of them are going to die because they don't have health insurance, that means that 45,955,000 Americans are going to live without health insurance.

              Did you know that, according to the CDC, some 73,000 Americans are going to die this year from Alzheimers? It doesn't include any data on how many of those have health insurance.

              Health insurance has, in my opinion, become a sort of necessary evil. The necessary part has to do with the desire to live a good life and not have one debilitating injury or illness force someone into bankruptcy, cause them to lose their home, be able to afford the pursuit of happiness and all that rot. The evil part would be the accountants, lawyers and Madison Avenue starched shirts that have their hands in the pie.

              But I will ask all non-Americans to please answer this for me: For a long time now, and especially in the last decade, non-Americans have been blasting the US Government for heavy-handed and totally inept foreign policy. Why is it that now these same non-Americans want us all to trust the very same government to manage our health care system?
              Comment
              • betplom
                SBR Posting Legend
                • 09-20-06
                • 13444

                #8
                Originally posted by Willie Bee
                I found this to be an interesting stat, plommer. I'd love to know what criteria was used to determine this number and exactly what it was these 45,000 died from.
                You'll have to ask the American Journal of Public Health - they are making the claim, not me.

                Originally posted by Willie Bee
                But I will ask all non-Americans to please answer this for me: For a long time now, and especially in the last decade, non-Americans have been blasting the US Government for heavy-handed and totally inept foreign policy. Why is it that now these same non-Americans want us all to trust the very same government to manage our health care system?
                Willie, you guys don't get it and we non-Americans are tired of having to explain it to you.

                First the US should stay out of other countries business and worry about whats going on at home, taking care of the problems inside America would be an awesome start.

                Also, had you paid attention you would have figured out that this article was written by and for Canadians, another example of you Yanks sticking your nose in other peoples business.

                Willie, I'll be expecting points for my participation pal.
                Comment
                • tacomax
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 08-10-05
                  • 9619

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Willie Bee
                  Did you know that, according to the CDC, some 73,000 Americans are going to die this year from Alzheimers? It doesn't include any data on how many of those have health insurance.
                  Sadly, a large majority of the 45,000 annually who die without insurance suffer from Alzheimer's. They keep forgetting to renew their policy.
                  Originally posted by pags11
                  SBR would never get rid of me...ever...
                  Originally posted by BuddyBear
                  I'd probably most likely chose Pags to jack off too.
                  Originally posted by curious
                  taco is not a troll, he is a bubonic plague bacteria.
                  Comment
                  • Willie Bee
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 02-14-06
                    • 15726

                    #10
                    I read the article betplom, and I did understand it was written by a Canadian who was somehow afraid that this American problem would somehow spill across the 48th parallel and 'deteriorate' the Canadian health care system.

                    You didn't answer my question, however, only showed your own hypocrisy by noting that Americans should stay out of your business yet Canadians are apparently ok to stick their noses into ours.

                    Oh, as for the points, you'll get 2 in the morning when you log in and 5 more when you post some more of your anti-American drivel. God bless.
                    Comment
                    • tacomax
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 08-10-05
                      • 9619

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Willie Bee
                      Oh, as for the points, you'll get 2 in the morning when you log in and 5 more when you post some more of your anti-American drivel. God bless.


                      Willie's on a roll today.
                      Originally posted by pags11
                      SBR would never get rid of me...ever...
                      Originally posted by BuddyBear
                      I'd probably most likely chose Pags to jack off too.
                      Originally posted by curious
                      taco is not a troll, he is a bubonic plague bacteria.
                      Comment
                      • betplom
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 09-20-06
                        • 13444

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Willie Bee
                        You didn't answer my question, however, only showed your own hypocrisy by noting that Americans should stay out of your business yet Canadians are apparently ok to stick their noses into ours.
                        What question? Willie, you're really not paying attention, re-read the title of my thread and title of the article quoted, I simply provided information for my fellow Canadians.

                        How the fukk you take that to be hypocrisy is amazing, Willie you seem to be blinded by my so called "Anti-American" drivel that you cant think clearly.

                        Try again pal, try again.

                        Willie, you can't be that thick.

                        Maybe I should spell it out for you, I'm concerned with MY system in my own country, really don't give a fvck about the US system, but I am amused by it.
                        Comment
                        • bettilimbroke999
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 02-04-08
                          • 13254

                          #13
                          Yet we should trust big business with their purpose solely to increase profits? Willie u gotta let govt offer a public option in some areas, they could have police insurance or fire insurance and refuse to come out when your homes bein broken into or burning down if u were uninsured, you could have all poor ppl denied any education by eliminating public schools

                          Thing I want to know is why do we spend so much on defense, I mean wheres the success in the last 60 yrs? We've gone to war with Vietnam, result was pointless, billions spent many died, gone to war with Iraq result was equally pointless billions spent many died, you cant tell me our country is any better off by spending the trillion+ dollars a year we spend on defense. Our only two current threats are Russia and they know if they nuke us we'll nuke them and terrorists who could be anyone at any time, it doesnt take a genius to realize a couiple demons with some fertilizer and enough money to rent a U-Haul can take out just about any builiding in this country and all the wars in Iraq arent going to prevent that.

                          People say theres been a drop in terrorism since the wars but in reality the anti-terrorism task force is on high alert seemingly at all times and the reason theres no terrorism abroad is bc in the old days when they bombed a building in the Middle East it was terrorism now when they blow up a convoy its an insurgency, do you honestly think Americans are safer abroad now or at home bc of the war in Iraq?
                          Comment
                          • Gemoka
                            SBR MVP
                            • 11-27-08
                            • 1648

                            #14
                            Come to "Great" Britain
                            Its all free, esp if you are a muslim asylum seeker who has passed through 32 countries to get here
                            Comment
                            • Willie Bee
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 02-14-06
                              • 15726

                              #15
                              Originally posted by bettilimbroke999
                              ...do you honestly think Americans are safer abroad now or at home bc of the war in Iraq?
                              No, I don't. In fact the exact opposite may be closer to the truth. But again, do you want the same government that mismanaged that to manage health care?


                              Willie, you can't be that thick.
                              Plommer, that might be the nicest thing you've ever said about me, sniff-sniff. I'm touched. Oh, and sorry if I misunderstood the article was entirely about Canada. I guess all of those remarks about America and Americans in the piece are what threw me.
                              Comment
                              • betplom
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 09-20-06
                                • 13444

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Willie Bee
                                Plommer, that might be the nicest thing you've ever said about me, sniff-sniff. I'm touched. Oh, and sorry if I misunderstood the article was entirely about Canada. I guess all of those remarks about America and Americans in the piece are what threw me.
                                Willie, I forgive you, you saw that America was mentioned in an article and took it as an opportunity to start a fight.
                                Its what you Yanks do best - I understand, you can't help yourself.

                                While the article references the situation in the US, nowhere does it tell the US specifically how should deal with its healthcare problems - it simply quoted US sources, the title of the article (and the thread) clearly states it is aimed at Canadians.
                                The subject is about OUR (Canada's) healthcare system, not yours.

                                Willie, I get the feeling your upset, perhaps you should recite the pledge of allegiance a couple of times - don't forget to keep your hand over your heart - I know you have a flag nearby.
                                Comment
                                • losturmarbles
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 07-01-08
                                  • 4604

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Willie Bee
                                  I found this to be an interesting stat, plommer. I'd love to know what criteria was used to determine this number and exactly what it was these 45,000 died from.

                                  But just for fun, let's work on the assumption that their cause of death was: Not having health insurance.

                                  Now let's look at some other stats.

                                  The mortality rate in the US is about 810 per 100,000 people. I found one site that listed the US population at 305.5 million people. So that means that approximately 2.5 million people will die in the US this year.

                                  The number of Americans without any health insurance is generally bandied about to be 46 million. That works out to 15% of the population without health insurance, which is real close to the 17% figure that has also been tossed around in discussions recently.

                                  Now if there are 46,000,000 Americans walking around without health insurance, and 45,000 of them are going to die because they don't have health insurance, that means that 45,955,000 Americans are going to live without health insurance.

                                  Did you know that, according to the CDC, some 73,000 Americans are going to die this year from Alzheimers? It doesn't include any data on how many of those have health insurance.

                                  Health insurance has, in my opinion, become a sort of necessary evil. The necessary part has to do with the desire to live a good life and not have one debilitating injury or illness force someone into bankruptcy, cause them to lose their home, be able to afford the pursuit of happiness and all that rot. The evil part would be the accountants, lawyers and Madison Avenue starched shirts that have their hands in the pie.

                                  But I will ask all non-Americans to please answer this for me: For a long time now, and especially in the last decade, non-Americans have been blasting the US Government for heavy-handed and totally inept foreign policy. Why is it that now these same non-Americans want us all to trust the very same government to manage our health care system?
                                  and the sheep go BAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!!

                                  jk willie. sharp post.
                                  Comment
                                  • Willie Bee
                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                    • 02-14-06
                                    • 15726

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by betplom
                                    Willie, I get the feeling your upset, perhaps you should recite the pledge of allegiance a couple of times - don't forget to keep your hand over your heart - I know you have a flag nearby.
                                    Nope, not upset. Just offered my opinions about some things. Note also that not once did I resort to bad-mouthing Canadians at all, never once said they were uninformed or assumed that all of you are at each other's throats about any issue at hand. If and when there is a change to your health care system, I will just figure it was done by the free will of the Canadian people.
                                    Comment
                                    • Pokerjoe
                                      SBR Wise Guy
                                      • 04-17-09
                                      • 704

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Willie Bee
                                      No, I don't. In fact the exact opposite may be closer to the truth. But again, do you want the same government that mismanaged that to manage health care?


                                      Plommer, that might be the nicest thing you've ever said about me, sniff-sniff. I'm touched. Oh, and sorry if I misunderstood the article was entirely about Canada. I guess all of those remarks about America and Americans in the piece are what threw me.
                                      The part of the government handling the war--the military--is doing an excellent job. The politicians are screwing up, not the troops.

                                      And I would LOVE to have the military handling my health care. They used to and it was great. Much better than Kaiser, which I have now.

                                      Oh, and because IQ is not your forte: military = government. Medicare = government. Your local library = government. Your police and fire department = government.

                                      Enron = non-government. GM = non-government. Countrywide = non-government. Etc.
                                      Comment
                                      • Pokerjoe
                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                        • 04-17-09
                                        • 704

                                        #20
                                        And the death's estimate comes from this: the death rate for people with health insurance compared to the rate for those without.

                                        It's a flawed method, however, in that sick people are much more likely to be denied health insurance, so it's going to warp the results. Also, mentally ill, addicted and otherwise extremely-messed up folk are much less likely to have insurance, and more likely to die, any given year.

                                        So although I support health care reform, I disaprove of this statistic.

                                        But I also disaprove of the use of the phrase "have health insurance." Unless you have government health care (VA or Medicare), you don't know if you have insurance, you're only hoping you do. You won't find out until you get really sick. So to say that anyone definitely has insurance when in fact they only might have it, is ignorant.

                                        There is probably no one posting on this forum who can say for certain that they are covered by private insurance. But there are plenty who smugly (and ignorantly) assume they do because they haven't had cancer yet.
                                        Comment
                                        • betplom
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 09-20-06
                                          • 13444

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Pokerjoe
                                          The part of the government handling the war--the military--is doing an excellent job. The politicians are screwing up, not the troops.

                                          And I would LOVE to have the military handling my health care. They used to and it was great. Much better than Kaiser, which I have now.

                                          Oh, and because IQ is not your forte: military = government. Medicare = government. Your local library = government. Your police and fire department = government.

                                          Enron = non-government. GM = non-government. Countrywide = non-government. Etc.
                                          Sharp post.
                                          Comment
                                          • reno cool
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 07-02-08
                                            • 3567

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Willie Bee
                                            No, I don't. In fact the exact opposite may be closer to the truth. But again, do you want the same government that mismanaged that to manage health care?


                                            Plommer, that might be the nicest thing you've ever said about me, sniff-sniff. I'm touched. Oh, and sorry if I misunderstood the article was entirely about Canada. I guess all of those remarks about America and Americans in the piece are what threw me.

                                            I think we just want them to stop doing bad things and start doing good things. It's not so much the execution as the intent.
                                            bird bird da bird's da word
                                            Comment
                                            • losturmarbles
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 07-01-08
                                              • 4604

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Pokerjoe
                                              The part of the government handling the war--the military--is doing an excellent job. The politicians are screwing up, not the troops.

                                              And I would LOVE to have the military handling my health care. They used to and it was great. Much better than Kaiser, which I have now.

                                              Oh, and because IQ is not your forte: military = government. Medicare = government. Your local library = government. Your police and fire department = government.

                                              Enron = non-government. GM = non-government. Countrywide = non-government. Etc.
                                              IRS = government
                                              Dept of Homeland Security = government
                                              CIA = government

                                              American Red Cross = non-government
                                              Walmart = non-government
                                              Amazon.com = non-government

                                              i like this game.


                                              so pokerjoe, serious question. what is government? and what is "the law"?
                                              Comment
                                              • losturmarbles
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 07-01-08
                                                • 4604

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by reno cool
                                                I think we just want them to stop doing bad things and start doing good things. It's not so much the execution as the intent.
                                                didn't know it was the government's job to be doing "things" to start with.

                                                so if it's about intentions, what is the intentions of government run health care?

                                                and why has every well-intended government program in history hurt those that it was targeted to help?
                                                Comment
                                                • betplom
                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                  • 09-20-06
                                                  • 13444

                                                  #25
                                                  This thread was started for Canadian SBR members, as usual the Americans invade and take over.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • bettilimbroke999
                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                    • 02-04-08
                                                    • 13254

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by losturmarbles
                                                    IRS = government
                                                    Dept of Homeland Security = government
                                                    CIA = government

                                                    American Red Cross = non-government
                                                    Walmart = non-government
                                                    Amazon.com = non-government

                                                    i like this game.


                                                    so pokerjoe, serious question. what is government? and what is "the law"?
                                                    Not sure Id be using Walmart as a positive, put all the little guys out of business while paying their employees shit not exactly a feather in the cap of capitalism more like its inevitable end result of consolidation of wealth and abuse of the poor
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Thor4140
                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                      • 02-09-08
                                                      • 22296

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by bettilimbroke999
                                                      Not sure Id be using Walmart as a positive, put all the little guys out of business while paying their employees shit not exactly a feather in the cap of capitalism more like its inevitable end result of consolidation of wealth and abuse of the poor
                                                      Wecum to Walmart
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Pokerjoe
                                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                                        • 04-17-09
                                                        • 704

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by losturmarbles
                                                        IRS = government
                                                        Dept of Homeland Security = government
                                                        CIA = government

                                                        American Red Cross = non-government
                                                        Walmart = non-government
                                                        Amazon.com = non-government

                                                        i like this game.


                                                        so pokerjoe, serious question. what is government? and what is "the law"?
                                                        You like a game in which you got buried? Are you a masochist? By quoting the samples you did, you prove my point: to blindly think private enterprise is better than the government, is childish.

                                                        Besides, show me evidence that any of the three government agencies you cited would be better performed by private enterprise? Tell me seriously you'd rather have corporations given their power? You're mistaking the wisdom of the consumption of services (low in the examples you cited) with the wisdom of preferring the government provide them rather than corporations (high in the examples you provided).

                                                        To even think there is a massive difference is ignorant. "Government" is something we spend money on. So is "private enterprise."

                                                        If you know anything about government, you know how greatly they can mismanage. But if you know anything about private enterprise, you know how greatly THEY can mismanage.

                                                        The questions before us always is, do we want "ability to profit" involved in the provision-of-services decision, and do we want "ability to pay" involved in the consumption-of-services decision (two sides to the same coin, admittedly).

                                                        Sane people agree that "the ability to pay" should not be involved, for example, in the question "should that child get police protection from murderers."

                                                        Sane people agree that the "ability to profit" should be involved, for example, in the question "should an Italian restaurant be opened on that street corner."

                                                        The question about health care is, how do we weight our concerns?

                                                        Because the health care industry has proven itself corrupt http://articles.latimes.com/2006/sep...ss/fi-revoke17

                                                        AND because most of us are good enough humans to agree that "ability to pay" should not be in the health care equation,

                                                        we conclude that health care is best provided by the government.

                                                        And that includes all the morons on this forum who A) hate governent health care!!! but B) will be grateful for it later (Medicare).

                                                        Not that many of those who "hate government health care" even know what they're talking about
                                                        (cue Maria Bartiromo clip wherein she shows her unbelievable and typical ignorance on the issue, smugly asking a young congressmen "if medicare is so great, why don't you use it now?"; or cue the clip of the redneck screaming at a Town Hall meeting, "keep the gubmint's hands off my medicare!")
                                                        Comment
                                                        • 20Four7
                                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                                          • 04-08-07
                                                          • 6703

                                                          #29
                                                          OMG plommer is almost making sense here......

                                                          Willie I like you and have met you during serveral bashes.... but come on..... do you really believe what you have written? Healthcare spending in the US benefits siemens, GE, and the insurance companies..... not one single person is benefitting from what the governement spends...... this debate is about insurance companies and others maintaining their profitablilty
                                                          Comment
                                                          • betplom
                                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                                            • 09-20-06
                                                            • 13444

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by 20Four7
                                                            OMG plommer is almost making sense here......
                                                            247 Remember, I never wrote the article, I merely posted it here in the forum, I do think the article was well written (the fact it has the Americans fighting adds to the credibility of it).
                                                            Comment
                                                            • BadNina
                                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                                              • 11-27-07
                                                              • 10491

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by betplom
                                                              This thread was started for Canadian SBR members, as usual the Americans invade and take over.
                                                              oh peaches, we are the only thing standing between you being taken over by Mexico. You may thank us later. As for those who died without health insurance, I wonder what the percent would be that they would have died any way? I wish Bettilimbroke would name one government program that elevated the quality of services and saved money. I won't hold my breath though because there isn't one.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • betplom
                                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                                • 09-20-06
                                                                • 13444

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by BadNina
                                                                oh peaches, we are the only thing standing between you being taken over by Mexico. You may thank us later.
                                                                Nina, thanks for the laugh!

                                                                I've seen how well America has done keeping the Mexicans out of the USA, lol.

                                                                If you mean you are protecting us from Mexico by absorbing all the Mexicans into America - Canada sincerely thanks you.

                                                                Once again you prove how ignorant Americans can be, you can't save yourself but you are going to save everyone else.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • BadNina
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 11-27-07
                                                                  • 10491

                                                                  #33
                                                                  I love it when silly people miss the point. Carry on with your psuedo-intellectual discussion.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • betplom
                                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                                    • 09-20-06
                                                                    • 13444

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by BadNina
                                                                    I love it when silly people miss the point. Carry on with your psuedo-intellectual discussion.
                                                                    Exactly.
                                                                    Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black.

                                                                    You said we should be grateful to have the USA "protect" us from Mexico, thats fukking laughable, we aren't worried about Mexico hun, we are more concerned with the whack jobs in the country next to us.

                                                                    Who will "protect" us from the big bad ole USA?
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • reno cool
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 07-02-08
                                                                      • 3567

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by losturmarbles
                                                                      didn't know it was the government's job to be doing "things" to start with.

                                                                      so if it's about intentions, what is the intentions of government run health care?

                                                                      and why has every well-intended government program in history hurt those that it was targeted to help?

                                                                      the intent is to provide medicine for everyone who needs it. So that people don't need to live in fear. And allow people to not have to wait till the last second to see a doctor.
                                                                      I know it's some popular notion to think govt is always corrupt. But, the problem is the influence private wealth, corporations and the like have in govt.
                                                                      Also, it's nonsense to think govt programs never helped those intended. Medicare, medicaid, aid to families with dependent children (yes welfare), ssi disability, social security, are all programs that help countless people... and many more.
                                                                      Sure it would be better if we had a society that didn't need all these things but that is irrelevant here.
                                                                      bird bird da bird's da word
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