Luka

[kingdom]

Exactly. These games don't mean shit.

Luka is a stat whore, he's no different than westbrook when he was getting 35 10 and 10 every night for the thunder. Watch Luke very closely. Watch how he camps out in the lane and very rarely ever wants to guard his guy straight up on the perimeter. I already called out IBetYou on this matter. He tried to compare Luka to Kobe lmfao. Kobe would guard Tracy McGrady the entire game. Luka is scared to guard anyone for two reasons. 1) His defense is horrible and 2) It would take away from his godly stats, cause he'll have to use more energy, and he won't get to camp in the lane for easy rebounds.

when okc lost kd what was russ supposed to do? your goal is playoffs. with talent around him he had to do those things.
Larry Bird played a similar game to Luka as well as magic and lebron and they won multiple titles. magic obviously not a gunner of course. but those teams put talent around their stars. lebron had to do it himself obviously.
you admit dallas management sucks so you think luka should just sit back and allow his team to lose? mavs are relevant because he is there. Dirk won one title because they never got him a robin. If cuban is this genius it is time for him to improve his mgmt team and build on what this team has.

[jjgold]

Luca did not know what game he was playing against Boston other night in Dallas

He does not like tough physical teams

[IBetYou]

It's upsetting to some people to see a big guy from Serbia putting up numbers not seen from a centre since Wilt Chamberlain, and a forward from Slovenia putting up stats never seen before period. I understand.

[Goat Milk]

when okc lost kd what was russ supposed to do? your goal is playoffs. with talent around him he had to do those things.
Larry Bird played a similar game to Luka as well as magic and lebron and they won multiple titles. magic obviously not a gunner of course. but those teams put talent around their stars. lebron had to do it himself obviously.
you admit dallas management sucks so you think luka should just sit back and allow his team to lose? mavs are relevant because he is there. Dirk won one title because they never got him a robin. If cuban is this genius it is time for him to improve his mgmt team and build on what this team has.

Na, Russ didn't have to average 10/11 boards, he wanted to. When a small guy is averaging that many rebounds, who is supposed to be on the perimeter, it means he's cheating off his guy and camping in the lane. So you're not helping your team defensively doing that. Luka is the weakest defender on that team, that's why ppl always try to go at him.

Lebron never did something similar. Lebron has been defensive first team several times. He's been in the convo for DPOY in his career a couple of times. Even Lebron, who is taller, bigger, stronger, and jumps higher than Luka, never averaged as many rebounds as him. As much as Kawhi is annoying with his injury management, there's a reason he's had so much success in so limited time on the actual court. Because he's the best player on the team who guards the best perimeter player on the opposing team. He'll switch onto any matchup and lock you down. The moment Luka switches off a pick onto a guy like Trey Young, he barely even puts his hands up, his back is already turned as soon as the shot goes up, and he moves into the lane to try and get the rebound. Watch closely.

He doesn't finish plays on defense, and that's why he'll never ascend into the Kobe Lebron Jordan cateogry. He'll always be in the Dirk type category.

[IBetYou]

Leonard had a much better supporting cast to Doncic in those recent 7-game series. George/ Jackson/ Morris..... no comparison. You start with the 2nd best player and go on down the line. Jackson is about the same as Brunson who's flavour of the month right now but not more talented. George is way better than Hardaway.

Leonard is a great midrange scorer but prone to disappearing in big games -we saw this in SA as they suffered bad upsets in the playoffs. Doesn't have nearly the offensive repertoire of Doncic or even Harden!

[IBetYou]

As for playmakers defensive rebounding, there's pros and cons to it. You don't need an outlet pass if your playmaker gets the board so I give WestBRICK that. Jason Kidd made a career out of getting the rebound and running the break -he was an amazing rebounder and possibly the best ever at the fastbreak.

Problem with Westbrick is unlike Doncic he is a guard and so often assigned to somebody that can shoot well. He doesn't give a shit about his man shooting an open three whether it's one of the Currys or whoever -he just wants his stats. It's well known he's asked back into games in garbage time to get his triple double -it means the world to him. I guess you could compare him to Kidd, but Kidd was a true pg; got everyone on the team involved and feeling good. Nets were the best fastbreaking team in the league during those title runs -can you say that about WestBRICK's Thunder? I don't think so. Feel bad more like. Durant had good reason to bail.

[IBetYou]

And look who the Mavs play tonight

[budwiser]

dumbest pickup i've seen in a while is the lakers picking up westbrook

they don't need another rebounder. they got unibrow and lebron. they don't need a physical defender. same reason.

they need a scorer. what lebron and unibrow don't do is shoot outside shots, dish, and run with speed. so who do they pick up? A guy who can drive to the basket. why do they need another guy who drives to the rim when they have lebron and davis? so they have westbrook out there, nobody-i mean nobody is going to guard his 3 point shot, nobody is going to guard his perimeter, so they pack the paint with lebron and davis, making it harder for them.

it's a shame i didn't kiss the laker owner's /ss get a cushy job and be an idiot at the same time

[kingdom]

Na, Russ didn't have to average 10/11 boards, he wanted to. When a small guy is averaging that many rebounds, who is supposed to be on the perimeter, it means he's cheating off his guy and camping in the lane. So you're not helping your team defensively doing that. Luka is the weakest defender on that team, that's why ppl always try to go at him.

Lebron never did something similar. Lebron has been defensive first team several times. He's been in the convo for DPOY in his career a couple of times. Even Lebron, who is taller, bigger, stronger, and jumps higher than Luka, never averaged as many rebounds as him. As much as Kawhi is annoying with his injury management, there's a reason he's had so much success in so limited time on the actual court. Because he's the best player on the team who guards the best perimeter player on the opposing team. He'll switch onto any matchup and lock you down. The moment Luka switches off a pick onto a guy like Trey Young, he barely even puts his hands up, his back is already turned as soon as the shot goes up, and he moves into the lane to try and get the rebound. Watch closely.

He doesn't finish plays on defense, and that's why he'll never ascend into the Kobe Lebron Jordan cateogry. He'll always be in the Dirk type category.

what people don't realize is russ averaged around 8 rebs per game when kd was there and the other big guys. as ibetyou stated it was part of their break. without those guys he did the same. now i cannot argue with you about luka and defense. he isn't a premiere athlete that lebron or kawhi is. but neither were larry bird or karl malone on defense. as an offensive player, i think luka does what is necessary to give his team a chance to win as much as he can. his slow motion game is kinda unstoppable. imagine he had an all nba teammate?

[Goat Milk]

what people don't realize is russ averaged around 8 rebs per game when kd was there and the other big guys. as ibetyou stated it was part of their break. without those guys he did the same. now i cannot argue with you about luka and defense. he isn't a premiere athlete that lebron or kawhi is. but neither were larry bird or karl malone on defense. as an offensive player, i think luka does what is necessary to give his team a chance to win as much as he can. his slow motion game is kinda unstoppable. imagine he had an all nba teammate?

Larry was a rock solid defender though and guy would dive on the floor if need be to win. I just don't see Luka having that same quality. Sure, he's the best offensive player in the league maybe outside of Curry and Durant but his obsession with stats is concerning. He was doing this last year too when he had brunson. The need to control the ball on every single play. Brunson could have very easily averaged 22 with Dallas like he is now, but Luka didn't allow him to touch the ball. He is a borderline all star. The guy was a stud in college and won like 2 national championsihps as the best player on the team.

All that said, I would be ok with it if he was 1st or 2nd team all defense, because not everyone can be perfect. But he's not Kobe on defense, and he's not Kobe on offense, and he'll never make a defensive team in his nba career, and he doesn't look like he even wants to. When Kobe was a weak defender, he sought out the best mentors in the world to teach him how to play defense. Kids today won't do that. They're spoiled and greedy and have no understanding of the history of the game.

[Goat Milk]

As for playmakers defensive rebounding, there's pros and cons to it. You don't need an outlet pass if your playmaker gets the board so I give WestBRICK that. Jason Kidd made a career out of getting the rebound and running the break -he was an amazing rebounder and possibly the best ever at the fastbreak.

Problem with Westbrick is unlike Doncic he is a guard and so often assigned to somebody that can shoot well. He doesn't give a shit about his man shooting an open three whether it's one of the Currys or whoever -he just wants his stats. It's well known he's asked back into games in garbage time to get his triple double -it means the world to him. I guess you could compare him to Kidd, but Kidd was a true pg; got everyone on the team involved and feeling good. Nets were the best fastbreaking team in the league during those title runs -can you say that about WestBRICK's Thunder? I don't think so. Feel bad more like. Durant had good reason to bail.

Jason Kidd never won a ring until he reliquished that role and just played PG and he won a ring with Dirk. He was smacked by Kobe and Shaq. It was an onslaught. Neither guy missed from the field. Shaq shot 60%, Kobe shot 52% and also 55% from downtown and they both played lockdown defense while Jason Kidd was worried about getting the rebound and starting the fast break.

[budwiser]

russ was a perfect fit on the thunder. you had a skinny guy shooting perimiter shots in kd, you got a 6th man shooting 3s in harden, they have a physical young guy who can drive to the basket and contribute rebounding in russell. ibaka a strong player in the middle able to provide screens and rebounding

it is incredible the thunder let harden go that was going to be one of the all-time greatest teams ever in the nba

basketball teams are like symphonies the parts have to fit together you don't have a symphony if it's just cellos or just violins or just horns

[kingdom]

Larry was a rock solid defender though and guy would dive on the floor if need be to win. I just don't see Luka having that same quality. Sure, he's the best offensive player in the league maybe outside of Curry and Durant but his obsession with stats is concerning. He was doing this last year too when he had brunson. The need to control the ball on every single play. Brunson could have very easily averaged 22 with Dallas like he is now, but Luka didn't allow him to touch the ball. He is a borderline all star. The guy was a stud in college and won like 2 national championsihps as the best player on the team.

All that said, I would be ok with it if he was 1st or 2nd team all defense, because not everyone can be perfect. But he's not Kobe on defense, and he's not Kobe on offense, and he'll never make a defensive team in his nba career, and he doesn't look like he even wants to. When Kobe was a weak defender, he sought out the best mentors in the world to teach him how to play defense. Kids today won't do that. They're spoiled and greedy and have no understanding of the history of the game.

Charles Barkley has always said he would have been the worst defensive player in the league if it wasn't for larry bird. rock solid? not at all. everyone isn't born with skills to defend. Magic was 6'9 and solid body, but couldn't defend a tree. it happens. that is why you have others around you for team defense. the bulls won six titles because of that. harper, jordan, pippen all 6'6 and up that can guard. and add rodman and horace grant before that. luka will never be a defensive player. but it would be nice if dallas really built a team around him.

[kingdom]

russ was a perfect fit on the thunder. you had a skinny guy shooting perimiter shots in kd, you got a 6th man shooting 3s in harden, they have a physical young guy who can drive to the basket and contribute rebounding in russell. ibaka a strong player in the middle able to provide screens and rebounding

it is incredible the thunder let harden go that was going to be one of the all-time greatest teams ever in the nba

basketball teams are like symphonies the parts have to fit together you don't have a symphony if it's just cellos or just violins or just horns

sad the thunder drafts so well and just becomes a farm team to give other teams great players. they love draft picks so much. but they never can keep what they have. kd hurt them alot as they could have been better than warriors with kd, russ, ibaka, canter, and a solid bench. they were up 3-1 on the warriors. but giving up harden for 4 million dollars difference is what kept them from winning a chip. i think kd would be a totally different player mentality wise if he won a chip in okc. deep down he knows how the chips with steph's team feels. that's why he left..

[budwiser]

sad the thunder drafts so well and just becomes a farm team to give other teams great players. they love draft picks so much. but they never can keep what they have. kd hurt them alot as they could have been better than warriors with kd, russ, ibaka, canter, and a solid bench. they were up 3-1 on the warriors. but giving up harden for 4 million dollars difference is what kept them from winning a chip. i think kd would be a totally different player mentality wise if he won a chip in okc. deep down he knows how the chips with steph's team feels. that's why he left..

yep money...they thought with all those draft picks they'd be golden. they were golden!! agree on kd, that was an unreal team they took away from him. he's felt like he's 2nd fiddle since, which is a big reason why i picked the nets-i know he's super motivated. he felt like he didn't get credit on the warriors because people feel like he's an add-on. he is BIGTIME motivated, he'll take a month off for an mcl injury so what he'll be back

a lot of teams like that.

i remember the bullets gave up rasheed wallace, ben wallace, richard hamilton, chris webber in their prime for rod strickland and change. for some reason they worship wes unseld because he got them a championship, but he was a bad coach with bad trades. and yet, his kid is currently coaching the bullets (wizards now)

[kingdom]

yep money...they thought with all those draft picks they'd be golden. they were golden!! agree on kd, that was an unreal team they took away from him. he's felt like he's 2nd fiddle since, which is a big reason why i picked the nets-i know he's super motivated. he felt like he didn't get credit on the warriors because people feel like he's an add-on. he is BIGTIME motivated, he'll take a month off for an mcl injury so what he'll be back

a lot of teams like that.

i remember the bullets gave up rasheed wallace, ben wallace, richard hamilton, chris webber in their prime for rod strickland and change. for some reason they worship wes unseld because he got them a championship, but he was a bad coach with bad trades. and yet, his kid is currently coaching the bullets (wizards now)

i remember that bullets team for a young team played the bulls tough when they were an 8 seed. i got to see rod strickland play in college. and my knicks had rod strickland and mark jackson and still screwed it up lol. but finally going back to the playoffs this year. thanks thibodeau..having phil jackson as a gm and not a coach is the dumbest thing the knicks ever did..

[budwiser]

i remember that bullets team for a young team played the bulls tough when they were an 8 seed. i got to see rod strickland play in college. and my knicks had rod strickland and mark jackson and still screwed it up lol. but finally going back to the playoffs this year. thanks thibodeau..having phil jackson as a gm and not a coach is the dumbest thing the knicks ever did..

yeah jordan said the bullets were the team of the future. jordan joined the bullets (wizards) later on only to get promised an ownership role then screwed by abe pollin


agree phil jackson ruined the knix and got a ton of $ for it lol. strickland was a great player when he got to the bullets over the hill on the downside, they traded size/webber and youth for a guy who was known to eat cheeseburgers pregame. webber was caught smoking weed which played a part in the bullets trading him for change

[stevenash]

This from last weeks Athletic.
I'm sorry for the cut and past job, but you need a subscription to read their content.
And if you don't have a subscription, what's the problem?
Generally I don't pay for content, but there are exceptions to every rule.





Deciding how to defend Luka Dončić is a job for masochists. It’s a sleepless, exhausting endeavor you should never want to have.


“He causes a lot of late-night film sessions and discussions with staff,” Phoenix Suns coach Monty Williams says. Williams speaks for the entire league. “He’s the toughest cover in the league,” Portland Trail Blazers coach Chauncey Billups points out. “You’re just not going to stop a guy like that.”



“It’s a nightmare,” Los Angeles Lakers coach Darvin Ham laments. “We don’t have the answers.”


Nobody does. “You’re not going to take care of everything,” Stan Van Gundy says. Van Gundy, now announcing games for TNT, faced this impossible decision during his most recent head coaching stint with the New Orleans Pelicans during the 2020-21 season. Dončić beat them twice in two games that season and averaged 39.5 points while doing so.


“He destroyed us,” Van Gundy tells The Athletic. “So my choices were not good ones.”


Dončić has become an even more unguardable player than he was when Van Gundy faced him. He’s in the midst of the best season of his five-year career, and he’s scored 50-plus points in three of the past six games. For opponents, it’s no longer about stopping him. It’s about deciding which way he might hurt you the least.


Let’s say you’re the unfortunate soul tasked with making this decision. To save you a sleepless night, we’ll provide you with a guide to stopping Dončić. If you follow these instructions, you’ll at least have a game plan.
Just understand it’s probably not going to work.


Stop letting Luka run his favorite play


You can’t stop Dončić calling for a screen to begin every possession, but you don’t have to guard his pick-and-rolls in a traditional manner. “There’s always people that will trust their defense enough to play him conventionally,” Van Gundy says.


More opponents this season are realizing the conventional approaches meant to keep defenders on their matchups (drop, hedge, up to touch and many others) are Dončić’s favorite targets for a reason.


This season, Dallas scores 1.18 points per possession on Dončić’s pick-and-rolls, per Synergy Sports, a figure that includes pick-and-roll possessions that end with a field goal attempt or turnover from either him or his teammates. It’s the league’s second-most efficient figure (behind only Stephen Curry) among the 25 players who run pick-and-roll most frequently.



You want to stop Dončić from getting into the paint, but you especially want to stop him getting there with a teammate crashing alongside him. Dončić’s incredible ability to delay his decisions until the final moment means he’ll often find his roll man after defenders commit to what they believe is a shot. Dallas has scored 125 points on the 80 times he has passed to a roller this season — an astronomical 1.56 points per possession.


“He does a really good job pausing on one leg and finding people all over the place,” Williams says. “I don’t know if anyone does it like he does, the combination of his skill and size.”


t’s a direct byproduct of Dončić’s uniquely non-American athleticism that lets him slow down and change directions far faster than most. And it’s becoming even more difficult to stop now that Dončić is running the majority of his pick-and-rolls with Christian Wood, a player just as dangerous popping for 3-point shots as he is rolling to the rim.


Dončić is still going to call for screens every possession. Teams just aren’t allowing him to get downhill with the option of his roll man nearly as often this season from that initial screen — even at the cost of leaving other teammates open elsewhere on the floor.

Don’t guard Luka one-on-one


“I can’t emphasize enough that people understand how big he is in stature,” Ham says. “He puts a lot of pressure on a single defender to contain him without fouling.”


That’s especially true when Dončić is choosing which defender to target for a switch. While he has freedom to go at specific players when he sees an advantage, the Dallas coaching staff identifies preferred targets prior to every game. If you let your team switch, he might run the same play targeting the same opponent six or eight times in a row.



“He believes he can score on everyone, which is probably true,” Mavericks coach Jason Kidd says. “But there is a list of players we will have him target.”

Dončić isolates 9.1 times per game, the most in the league, and he’s the fourth-most efficient isolation scorer among players who average at least three such plays per game (1.18 points per possession). He scores on about 57 percent of his post-ups possessions that end with him shooting too. If you play him one-on-one — and especially if you do that while switching everything, allowing him to choose which of your defenders he wants to make his prey — he’ll embarrass you.

If you still choose to switch his pick-and-rolls, you must have your team help the poor, mismatched teammate whom Dončić decided to take on an island vacation.


When you include the isolation possessions in which Dončić passes out to a shot, Dallas’ team scoring efficiency falls to an average of 1.13 points per play. If that was the only way the Mavericks ever scored — if you never once had a defensive breakdown, if you never conceded an offensive rebound or transition opportunity — they’d still have the league’s 15th-best offense.


Of course, it’s much easier to say “send help” than to actually do it. When should you do it? From which area on the court? Dončić can make every pass from anywhere on the floor. He has the intuition to know exactly where you plan to send help.


“Now you’re trying to react to him putting pressure on a single defender,” Ham says. “Now you’re overreacting, now they’ve got kick-out 3s.”


It might take you all night to figure out how, where and when to send help against Dončić in a one-on-one matchup. Then, if your players can just avoid making even one mistake, you maybe can survive with the Dončić-led offense you’re facing just being average.


At least don’t let Luka go right


Let’s say you are fortunate enough to have a roster — or even a lineup — without an obvious defensive weakness. Let’s say you want to trust your lanky, versatile defenders to bother Dončić enough in one-on-one situations to avoid the need to send help as much as possible. You think that’s smarter than gambling on his teammates missing open 3s. Sure, makes sense, if you can do it.



You better tell your defenders to not let Dončić go right, then. He averages 1.12 points when posting up on the right side of the floor, per Synergy, but just 0.91 on the left. He’s more efficient driving right (1.18) than left (1.14) too.
That’s what Van Gundy suggests doing, anyway.


“He’s a better passer going to his right hand, because he can make, you know, that hook pass to the other corner a little easier,” Van Gundy says. “And he’s a better finisher going to his right.”


It’s reasonable advice with one enormous flaw, one that Van Gundy knows.


“Some people force him right,” he says, “because they (want to) take away that stepback 3.”


Then again, you’re probably not going to beat Dončić anyway if he’s hitting his 3s. Dallas is 10-1 when he hits at least four shots from distance.


“That stepback 3 is a weapon,” Van Gundy says. “But if you give me every possibility that Luka’s got in the pick-and-roll, at least early in the game, that’s the one I’m going to live with.”


Would you rather his teammates to beat you?


You need to consider the precise moment to send another defender to Dončić. But when? At half court, he can pass right over the top of your defenders, so that’s too far from the basket for the second defender to recover. If you blitz the pick-and-roll — i.e. have the screener’s man rush Dončić for a double-team — Dallas trusts its big men to receive the ball from him in the middle of the floor and make plays against a defense that’s defending the remaining four offensive players with three men.


The purpose of doubling Dončić must be about delaying him. There’s one specific double-team Van Gundy suggests you use, one he noticed the Suns and Warriors successfully used against Dončić in the postseason.



“I really like the coverage where you switch the initial pick-and-roll and then come back to double him with the nearest guy up top,” he says. “It changes the rhythm of the blitz.”


This strategy causes Dončić to swing the ball sideways rather than advancing it closer to the rim through his crashing big man. And while Dallas has stuffed its roster full of catch-and-shoot 3-point shooters, it doesn’t have many dynamic playmakers off the dribble to turn semi-contested 3s into higher efficiency shots.


You might want to try it, at least for a while.


“The thing is, there’s nothing that is going to work consistently,” Van Gundy says. “(It) never does against great players.”


You can always get weird


Nick Nurse’s Toronto Raptors are known for having some of the league’s most varied defensive schemes. They might change them every possession and use “gimmick” defenses rarely seen at this level. Quirky zone defenses. Box-and-one looks that have just one player playing man defense against one opponent while the other four form a square. Any and every pick-and-roll scheme imaginable.


“What those defenses do is they turn your team more into an equal opportunity team,” Van Gundy says. “I’m surprised we haven’t seen more of that (against Dončić).”


When Toronto deployed these schemes against Dončić in two matchups earlier this season, it succeeded in one way: The Raptors limited him to just 15 field goal attempts both times, the fewest shots he’s taken in any games this season. Toronto won the second matchup on Nov. 26 and held Dončić to 24 points. In the first, though, Dončić still scored 35 on those 15 shots in a one-point win.

But before you start putting on pajamas for a restful evening, there’s a reason NBA teams rarely use these defensive schemes. If you’re a strategic sicko like Nurse, you might want to try them for a few possessions. But if you do, it shouldn’t be because you hope Dončić will be surprised by them. “Luka has seen all these defenses,” Kidd says. It’s that you hope his teammates might not pick up on them as quickly as he does.


The Mavericks’ coaching staff enters each game with an expectation for how opponents are about to play, something that’s based on the opponents’ tendencies and prior matchups. When they relay it to the players, they mostly focus on the base offenses needed to counter the other team’s plans.
“It’s not so much (for) Luka, but for the other four on the floor to recognize what’s happening,” Kidd says.


Even if you don’t get as weird as a box-and-one zone, you have to alter the defensive approaches you use against Dončić throughout the course of a game.


“More than you have to do with other guys,” Billups says.


Remember, you’re hoping for marginal advantages


You can try these strategies. Just remember every team in the league has tried them too. The Mavericks are still scoring 121.6 points per 100 possessions with Dončić on the court, per Cleaning the Glass, about three points better than Boston’s league-leading offense. You’re hoping he hurts you a little bit less than everyone else.


Dončić can’t play the entire game. By making him work harder to succeed, it’s still possible that you can tire him out for the game’s final minutes. “People will say he’s 23,” Kidd told The Athletic’s David Aldridge in November. “But he’s human.” The team has been concerned enough about Dončić’s workload — he has the league’s second-highest usage rate — to voluntarily rest him three times in the season’s opening 38 games.


“All you’re trying to do with the great players is change the percentages a little bit,” Van Gundy says. “You hit the fourth quarter and, you know, a 37 percent 3-point shot turns into a 34 percent shot. Maybe Luka going to the rim for a 70 percent finish turns into a 66 percent finish.”


You should know there’s no shame in failing to stop Dončić. Every coaching staff in the league can relate. Every defender has a humbling experience with him. Dončić, even at 23, is unquestionably one of the greatest offensive players the league has ever seen.


“As an offensive player, if you encompass all of (his strengths),” Van Gundy says, “You put them all together, and I think he’s the best I’ve seen. He’s incredible.”

[IBetYou]

Jason Kidd never won a ring until he reliquished that role and just played PG and he won a ring with Dirk. He was smacked by Kobe and Shaq. It was an onslaught. Neither guy missed from the field. Shaq shot 60%, Kobe shot 52% and also 55% from downtown and they both played lockdown defense while Jason Kidd was worried about getting the rebound and starting the fast break.

Well of course... Shaq & Bryant were arguably 1 & 2 in the league at the time, and Kidd was playing with a bunch of bums. KJ Martin? R.Jefferson? Kittles? Nets weren't even a playoff team before he got there.

[Goat Milk]

Charles Barkley has always said he would have been the worst defensive player in the league if it wasn't for larry bird. rock solid? not at all. everyone isn't born with skills to defend. Magic was 6'9 and solid body, but couldn't defend a tree. it happens. that is why you have others around you for team defense. the bulls won six titles because of that. harper, jordan, pippen all 6'6 and up that can guard. and add rodman and horace grant before that. luka will never be a defensive player. but it would be nice if dallas really built a team around him.

Lol Barkley is a bozo man. Bird got roughed up so many times diving for loose balls. He wasn't a great defender maybe but he was a hustler. He wasn't gonna leave his guy for an open 3 to camp out in the lane for a rebound. If you watch a whole dallas game, just watch what Doncic does on defense. I don't even get how teams can teach this. It's a losing formula. You can't lose an NBA wing player open for 3 just so you can get a step ahead to grab the rebound.

He had Brunson but didn't give him the ball like I said. I think Luka wants to control everything. He wants a subpar team around him because he knows he gets to average 40 and gets to take every single shot down the stretch. That's what kids like nowadays, with their instagram highlight reel nba culture. If Luka really cared that much about winning he would figure out how to lock down on D. Everyone rags on Curry for his defense but if you watch closely he has become one of the better defensive pgs in the nba the last 5 years. A night and day from when he was a kid, and you can tell he is dedicated to getting better, not just trying to improve his numbers.

Doncic also complains more than anyone I've ever seen on a bsketball court. If he misses a shot, it's a foul to him. He has a lot of growing up to do.

Is the guy a great player? Yeah, obviously. He's one of the best players in the world. But notice how Dallas can never get fast break points? That's because everyone has to wait for Luka to jog up the court. He doesn't allow the play to progress without his approval.

When he relinqiushes control, that's when Luka will win a ring. Kobe won a title with an extremely medicore team. Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Shannon Brown, Vujavic. I mean that team fukking sucked when you look at the roster on paper. He made it to 3 straight finals with those guys, then won the next ring with Ron Artest, who was pretty washed up at that point too. Those teams won b2b rings on defense and scrappiness. They were never even that talented, aside from Kobe.

Does Doncic need another all star? Sure. But he had one already, and wasted him. It's going to be very hard for another true superstar to play with Luka because they won't be allowed to touch the ball in crunch time, and that won't sit well. Look how much KD changed his game when he went to GS. Night and day from OKC. That's what a great player can do. It remains to be seen if Luka can do that. As of now, he's looking like another James Harden, except clutcher. We all know how Harden's career went down and what the reason for his downfall was.

[IBetYou]

Can't compare Pau Gasol with KP or Wood FFS! Gasol was an elite low post scorer, a great passer, excellent shooter, great switchability, length... a titan.

[IBetYou]

Conventional wisdom says Doncic will burn out sooner or later. He spent half of last summer playing for Slovenia (two WCQ windows and the Eurobasket), and that was on the heels of a deep playoff run. They can't afford to give him time off like Leonard gets time off.

[kingdom]

Can't compare Pau Gasol with KP or Wood FFS! Gasol was an elite low post scorer, a great passer, excellent shooter, great switchability, length... a titan.

Pau Gasol was the real mvp of that second title. kobe shot bricks that whole series. he became a rebounder at the end because he couldn't make a bucket. check his game 7 stats. and let's not pretend this team didn't win because of defense and phil jackson. Beating Dwight Howard and the Magic wasn't the most impressive thing in the world. and the celts blew that series. and it was more Gasol than Kobe that gave the celtics problems.

[IBetYou]

Pau Gasol was the real mvp of that second title. kobe shot bricks that whole series. he became a rebounder at the end because he couldn't make a bucket. check his game 7 stats. and let's not pretend this team didn't win because of defense and phil jackson. Beating Dwight Howard and the Magic wasn't the most impressive thing in the world. and the celts blew that series. and it was more Gasol than Kobe that gave the celtics problems.

Yes, and those '10 Celtics had arguably the greatest collection of low post defenders ever assembled (Wallace/ Perkins/ Garnett/ Davis in that order). It was one hell of an achievement by Gasol -with help from Bynum that year.

[Goat Milk]

Pau Gasol was the real mvp of that second title. kobe shot bricks that whole series. he became a rebounder at the end because he couldn't make a bucket. check his game 7 stats. and let's not pretend this team didn't win because of defense and phil jackson. Beating Dwight Howard and the Magic wasn't the most impressive thing in the world. and the celts blew that series. and it was more Gasol than Kobe that gave the celtics problems.

Kobe molded Gasol into the player he became. Gasol was nothing before Bryant. 0 playoff wins, well into his career. Kobe dominated game 7, not sure what game you watched. They triple teamed him. Gasol and Artest were only open because Garnett was shifting to Bryant every play. Gasol would have folded up if KG guarded him straight up every play.

Oh, and Kobe was playing with two broken fingers that series, on his shooting hand. Doncic would be out for 6 weeks with the same injury in today's basketball.

Kobe's stats in the finals against Boston shit on Pau Gasol's. And let's not forget what he did to the PHX Suns to get them into the finals. Was that Gasol as well? Gasol didn't do much in that finals run. Nothing close to Kobe. Once Kobe told Phil I'm switching onto Rondo, he cut off the head of the snake and they won b2b games to win the title.

[IBetYou]

Kobe molded Gasol into the player he became. Gasol was nothing before Bryant. 0 playoff wins, well into his career. Kobe dominated game 7, not sure what game you watched. They triple teamed him. Gasol and Artest were only open because Garnett was shifting to Bryant every play. Gasol would have folded up if KG guarded him straight up every play.

Oh, and Kobe was playing with two broken fingers that series, on his shooting hand. Doncic would be out for 6 weeks with the same injury in today's basketball.

Kobe's stats in the finals against Boston shit on Pau Gasol's. And let's not forget what he did to the PHX Suns to get them into the finals. Was that Gasol as well? Gasol didn't do much in that finals run. Nothing close to Kobe. Once Kobe told Phil I'm switching onto Rondo, he cut off the head of the snake and they won b2b games to win the title.

You do realise Rondo was the easiest assignment? The alternative would be Pierce or running a marathon chasing Allen.

[jjgold]

All he does is Lose big games that’s all you need to know

[Goat Milk]

You do realise Rondo was the easiest assignment? The alternative would be Pierce or running a marathon chasing Allen.

No. He guarded Allen in that series, and at times Pierce. But Rondo was destroying them in the open court, pick and rolls, hockey passes. So Bryant said I got Rondo. Rondo was one of the most dynamic pgs in the nba during that era and everyone knows that if you can stop the primary ball handler, whatever position it is, in this case Rondo, you can win an nba championship. Bryant was the best defensive player in the world in 2010 bro. You do realize that, right?

[budwiser]

imo everyone knows Rondo can't shoot perimeter shots. So yeah, it's an easy assignment, it's not like he's going to post down low.

he plays more like a westbrook.

[Goat Milk]

imo everyone knows Rondo can't shoot perimeter shots. So yeah, it's an easy assignment, it's not like he's going to post down low.

he plays more like a westbrook.

Yeah but you have to read Rondo's eyes. It requires high IQ. Rondo is one of the highest IQ pgs of all time. Kobe knew this. This is what most people don't understand about Kobe Bryant -- how intelligent he was. He's the most intelligent player, both on and off the court, ever in history. You'll never see players of today with this kind of intelligence. You're playing like a free safety in that scenario, or linebacker, reading the eyes of the quarterback. It's easier to play cornerback in the NFL than it is to play safety or lineback. Corner you just have one assignment basically.

FUN FACT: Did you guys know that 11 years after that championship was played, Rondo said:

"I finally figured out how Kobe beat us in the finals."


He never shared the answer. Very eerie quote that just shows what an intellectual basketball savant Kobe was.

And speaking of, just think about what Kobe did with Gasol. Running through him on the first play of the Spain USA group stage match. He leveled him. This was after Kobe and Gasol lost in the finals. Then, he hung his Gold Medal in Gasol's locker, prior to the start of the 09 season, without saying a word.

Tell me, budwiser, what nba player today would do that?

[IBetYou]

All he does is Lose big games that’s all you need to know

I would say game 7 of the Western Conference Semi's in Phoenix was a big game. Euroleague Championship, Eurobasket Championship. Why come up with a reductive statement like that? -no truth to it at all. He actually has an outstanding record in elimination games in the NBA -it's something they reference every year on TNT/ ESPN. He's big game Luka.

[budwiser]

Yeah Rondo was an intelligent player for sure. But as for outside shots nobody guarded his shots. he averaged 10 points over his career. Shot about 1 3 pointer a game, I'm sure most of them not guarded.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3026/rajon-rondo

Not saying that's irrelevant-imo that's a big deal. He almost averaged as many assists as points, which given how nobody defended his shot is amazing.

There's lots of great players who weren't great scorers.

Bur defending Rondo's shot? you could say guarding rondo was a big deal because of his dishes and his rebounds and his little things. not his shot. he was notoriously bad shooter, despite a high percentage-he didn't shoot much despite having open shot.

That's what I remember anyways. Could b wrong. Watch this video, nobody is interested in guarding his shot. That was Rondo.

[Goat Milk]

For Luka to ascend he has to play better D plain and simple and has to get in shape. He's very similar to Harden. Harden never played D and never, ever ran with his teammates on the fast break if it wasn't him pushing the ball. That's exactly the same thing Luka does now. We all know how Harden's career has gone. All these points all these stats and no rings. You guys can argue all you want but I'm speaking facts.

[goduke]

Yeah but you have to read Rondo's eyes. It requires high IQ. Rondo is one of the highest IQ pgs of all time. Kobe knew this. This is what most people don't understand about Kobe Bryant -- how intelligent he was. He's the most intelligent player, both on and off the court, ever in history. You'll never see players of today with this kind of intelligence. You're playing like a free safety in that scenario, or linebacker, reading the eyes of the quarterback. It's easier to play cornerback in the NFL than it is to play safety or lineback. Corner you just have one assignment basically.

FUN FACT: Did you guys know that 11 years after that championship was played, Rondo said:

"I finally figured out how Kobe beat us in the finals."


He never shared the answer. Very eerie quote that just shows what an intellectual basketball savant Kobe was.

And speaking of, just think about what Kobe did with Gasol. Running through him on the first play of the Spain USA group stage match. He leveled him. This was after Kobe and Gasol lost in the finals. Then, he hung his Gold Medal in Gasol's locker, prior to the start of the 09 season, without saying a word.

Tell me, budwiser, what nba player today would do that?

Doesn’t matter how intelligent you thing rondo was if Pierce and Garnett weren’t filling up the stat sheet off double teams they would have been getting murder every night because rondo wasn’t capable of hitting jumpers.
Yeah he played defense but he had to or else that was the end of his career. There’s a reason that rondo was a non factor once pierce and Garnett aged out.

[IBetYou]

For Luka to ascend he has to play better D plain and simple and has to get in shape. He's very similar to Harden. Harden never played D and never, ever ran with his teammates on the fast break if it wasn't him pushing the ball. That's exactly the same thing Luka does now. We all know how Harden's career has gone. All these points all these stats and no rings. You guys can argue all you want but I'm speaking facts.

All these terrible player comparisons... Harden not very good in the playoffs. Good teams force him to drive and load up the paint, and this shuts him down most nights. Good luck with that strategy vs Doncic. He's in a different relm.

For a while there was talk Harden just needed a quality big man. The notion was Howard didn't cut it - fair point - but now he has Embiid and it still doesn't work. He's just not v.good. SGA is the top 2-guard in the NBA... much better than Harden ever was imo.