Is Buerhle a HOF candidate?

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  • BobHarvey
    SBR MVP
    • 07-08-08
    • 3987

    #1
    Is Buerhle a HOF candidate?
    I say yes. He's got a ring and two no-hitters. He's on double-digits for 11 straight seasons. I say if he wins 200 in his career he should warrant serious consideration.

    Thoughts?
  • MexicanStallion
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 09-08-08
    • 20429

    #2
    I don't think he would be in the hall. See how his career finishes up.
    Comment
    • pavyracer
      SBR Aristocracy
      • 04-12-07
      • 82907

      #3
      Yes. He has a WS ring and two no hitters. Obama also likes him. Done deal if Obama is president when he retires.
      Comment
      • lakerboy
        SBR Aristocracy
        • 04-02-09
        • 94383

        #4
        knew this was coming. Bob that is not enough to put someone in the hall. he won the ring but that is his only playoff success. he is good but hall might be stretching it. i say they make a sub hall for second tier players too many guys getting attention for hall.
        Comment
        • BGS 9.5
          SBR MVP
          • 01-10-08
          • 4628

          #5
          Absolutely not, nowhere near close.
          Comment
          • SamsNCharge99
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 10-22-08
            • 41242

            #6
            I feel as if the HOF for all sports isn't as big of a deal as it used to be. I feel too many players are getting in, so it's not as of a prestigue thing
            Comment
            • jjgold
              SBR Aristocracy
              • 07-20-05
              • 388179

              #7
              Not even close

              he needs to win at least 280 games
              Comment
              • reno cool
                SBR MVP
                • 07-02-08
                • 3567

                #8
                no
                bird bird da bird's da word
                Comment
                • Mudcat
                  Restricted User
                  • 07-21-05
                  • 9287

                  #9
                  Candidate, sure, but still a helluva lot of work to do.

                  No hitters shouldn't be much of a factor. Just needs to win a lot of games.
                  Comment
                  • ukbro00
                    SBR Sharp
                    • 04-02-07
                    • 388

                    #10
                    If he retired today, no shot. If he continues pitching this way for the next 10 years (until he is 40) then yes. So the proper answer is, time will tell, and he is going to need to win at least 250.
                    Comment
                    • Nickelicious
                      SBR MVP
                      • 05-21-09
                      • 2647

                      #11
                      Agree with ukbro. He's only 30 and has 133 wins already. The new standard will be 250. With 10 more good years, Buerhle will have 280-300 already, and he's a junk pitcher like Moyer so he has a few years left after 40. The dude could pitch until he's 45, at least, and he has said that's exactly what he WANTS to do.

                      316 career wins, lock for the hall.
                      Comment
                      • Willie Bee
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 02-14-06
                        • 15726

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ukbro00
                        If he retired today, no shot. If he continues pitching this way for the next 10 years (until he is 40) then yes. So the proper answer is, time will tell, and he is going to need to win at least 250.
                        Agree with your assessment. Could be a HOFer, but certainly not in there yet.

                        Originally posted by lakerboy
                        knew this was coming. Bob that is not enough to put someone in the hall. he won the ring but that is his only playoff success. he is good but hall might be stretching it. i say they make a sub hall for second tier players too many guys getting attention for hall.
                        Buehrle's one ring is one more than any of the players below has won. I've asked you this before but never got an answer. Does a player have to win multiple rings to be HOF worthy? Do we toss out all of the names on the following list?

                        HOFs never to win a World Series
                        Luke Appling
                        Richie Ashburn
                        Earl Averill
                        Ernie Banks
                        Jim Bunning
                        Rod Carew
                        Ty Cobb
                        Sam Crawford
                        Bobby Doerr
                        Rick Ferrell
                        Elmer Flick
                        Nellie Fox
                        Tony Gwynn
                        Gabby Hartnett
                        Harry Heilman
                        Billy Herman
                        Ferguson Jenkins
                        Addie Joss
                        George Kell
                        Harmon Killebrew
                        Ralph Kiner
                        Chuck Klein
                        Nap Lajoie
                        Freddie Lindstrom
                        Ted Lyons
                        Heinie Manush
                        Juan Marichal
                        Rube Marquard
                        Phil Niekro
                        Gaylord Perry
                        Eppa Rixey
                        Robin Roberts
                        Ryne Sandberg
                        George Sisler
                        Don Sutton
                        Arky Vaughan
                        Rube Waddell
                        Bobby Wallace
                        Paul Waner
                        Lloyd Waner
                        Zack Wheat
                        Billy Williams
                        Ted Williams
                        Hack Wilson
                        Early Wynn
                        Carl Yastrzemski
                        Robin Yount
                        Comment
                        • Chi_archie
                          SBR Aristocracy
                          • 07-22-08
                          • 63172

                          #13
                          no,lotsa pitchers with better credentials not in yet
                          Comment
                          • dwaechte
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 08-27-07
                            • 5481

                            #14
                            Not even close. There is zero discussion here.
                            Comment
                            • t-bone
                              SBR MVP
                              • 03-18-08
                              • 3732

                              #15
                              No way in hell
                              Comment
                              • buckeyesfan
                                SBR Rookie
                                • 07-21-09
                                • 43

                                #16
                                Give me a break after that no hitter Bob Harvey is posting if hes a hall of famer or not. Hes a good ace starting pitcher but not a hall of famer and if he wins a couple CY Young maybe.
                                Comment
                                • DeeWizzle
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 03-08-09
                                  • 3316

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by t-bone
                                  No way in hell
                                  Agree... Prisoner of the moment
                                  Comment
                                  • Wilforth
                                    Restricted User
                                    • 05-10-08
                                    • 16309

                                    #18
                                    If the hall is getting too small, let's go with an open field. Open field of fame (OFOF) won't be a bad idea!
                                    Comment
                                    • Bogart45
                                      SBR Sharp
                                      • 11-21-08
                                      • 379

                                      #19
                                      I think it depends on how his career finishes.
                                      Comment
                                      • HedgeHog
                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                        • 09-11-07
                                        • 10128

                                        #20
                                        No. Two days ago, who would make such a silly argument. Congrats on the perfect game and second no-hitter, but he'll have to buy a ticket like the rest of us to see the HOF.
                                        Comment
                                        • BobHarvey
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 07-08-08
                                          • 3987

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Willie Bee
                                          Agree with your assessment. Could be a HOFer, but certainly not in there yet.

                                          Buehrle's one ring is one more than any of the players below has won. I've asked you this before but never got an answer. Does a player have to win multiple rings to be HOF worthy? Do we toss out all of the names on the following list?

                                          HOFs never to win a World Series
                                          Luke Appling
                                          Richie Ashburn
                                          Earl Averill
                                          Ernie Banks
                                          Jim Bunning
                                          Rod Carew
                                          Ty Cobb
                                          Sam Crawford
                                          Bobby Doerr
                                          Rick Ferrell
                                          Elmer Flick
                                          Nellie Fox
                                          Tony Gwynn
                                          Gabby Hartnett
                                          Harry Heilman
                                          Billy Herman
                                          Ferguson Jenkins
                                          Addie Joss
                                          George Kell
                                          Harmon Killebrew
                                          Ralph Kiner
                                          Chuck Klein
                                          Nap Lajoie
                                          Freddie Lindstrom
                                          Ted Lyons
                                          Heinie Manush
                                          Juan Marichal
                                          Rube Marquard
                                          Phil Niekro
                                          Gaylord Perry
                                          Eppa Rixey
                                          Robin Roberts
                                          Ryne Sandberg
                                          George Sisler
                                          Don Sutton
                                          Arky Vaughan
                                          Rube Waddell
                                          Bobby Wallace
                                          Paul Waner
                                          Lloyd Waner
                                          Zack Wheat
                                          Billy Williams
                                          Ted Williams
                                          Hack Wilson
                                          Early Wynn
                                          Carl Yastrzemski
                                          Robin Yount
                                          Good stuff!
                                          Comment
                                          • Doc JS
                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                            • 09-15-06
                                            • 6885

                                            #22
                                            Gred Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Mark Buehrle

                                            Which one of these doesn't belong?


                                            Buehrle has had a very good MLB career, but unless he pitches 10 more years and averages @ 15 wins a year, he's got no chance at getting into the HOF without buying a ticket.

                                            Doc
                                            Comment
                                            • pavyracer
                                              SBR Aristocracy
                                              • 04-12-07
                                              • 82907

                                              #23
                                              Since there is no salary cap in baseball HOF inductees from teams with above average payrolls have an unfair advantage. If Greinke was playing for the Yankees he would have 25 wins every year and he would have been a HOF in 10 years. But since he is playing for the Royals he would never be a HOF because it would take him 30 years to get 250 wins. Does this mean he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF and someone like Pettite or Mussina who if they played for the Royals would have had horrible career numbers may actually be considered one day for HOF? Unless there is a salary cap we will never know if a pitcher gets the wins every year because of the people surrounding him or because of the people they don't have on board.
                                              Comment
                                              • linglingfool
                                                SBR Sharp
                                                • 06-10-09
                                                • 326

                                                #24
                                                I'm a Sox fan, and I say no, because he probably won't even hit 200 wins. The reason being is that he'll likely retire after his contract is up in 2011, unless he gets to pitch for his hometown Cards. He's about the most normal, unassuming guy you'll ever meet, and would gladly take the opportunity to do nothing but spend time with his wife and kid. The ONLY way I see him getting in is getting a second ring, and even then only if he hits 200.
                                                Comment
                                                • Doc JS
                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                  • 09-15-06
                                                  • 6885

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by pavyracer
                                                  Since there is no salary cap in baseball HOF inductees from teams with above average payrolls have an unfair advantage. If Greinke was playing for the Yankees he would have 25 wins every year and he would have been a HOF in 10 years. But since he is playing for the Royals he would never be a HOF because it would take him 30 years to get 250 wins. Does this mean he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF and someone like Pettite or Mussina who if they played for the Royals would have had horrible career numbers may actually be considered one day for HOF? Unless there is a salary cap we will never know if a pitcher gets the wins every year because of the people surrounding him or because of the people they don't have on board.
                                                  Pavy,
                                                  I don't have a beef with your basic argument, but I would point out that very few players play their entire careers with one team. So, there is nothing to say Greinke can't go to a large payroll team when he becomes a FA if that's what he wants to do and enhance his chances of putting up the kind of numbers that would make him Hall-worthy.

                                                  Also there are position players like Gwynn and Ripken that did play their entire careers for teams that, on the whole, were not good teams, who did make the HOF.

                                                  Now, I know that pitchers are different from position players in that they're dependent on their teammates to score runs in order for them to be the winning pitcher because you can pitch your @ss off and lose 1-0.

                                                  And there are pitchers who pitched most of their careers for bad teams who made the HOF. Phil Neikro pitched most of his career for the Braves who were historically bad for most of Phil's career. Now, he did go the the American League to finish his career. Gaylord Perry is another pitcher who didn't pitch on great teams for most of his career.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • pavyracer
                                                    SBR Aristocracy
                                                    • 04-12-07
                                                    • 82907

                                                    #26
                                                    Dark Horse,

                                                    I was just trying to point out that having 250 wins with a team of $400 million payroll and an ERA of 4.78 maybe as good as having 175 wins with a team of $50 million payroll and 3.87 ERA. Salary cap doesn't come into play when a pitcher is considered for the HOF. Only wins count which is wrong in my opinion. They should take the salary cap of the team a pitcher played, divide it per number of wins and whoever has the smaller ratio of wins per dollar spent should be considered.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • lakerboy
                                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                                      • 04-02-09
                                                      • 94383

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Willie Bee
                                                      Agree with your assessment. Could be a HOFer, but certainly not in there yet.

                                                      Buehrle's one ring is one more than any of the players below has won. I've asked you this before but never got an answer. Does a player have to win multiple rings to be HOF worthy? Do we toss out all of the names on the following list?

                                                      HOFs never to win a World Series
                                                      Luke Appling
                                                      Richie Ashburn
                                                      Earl Averill
                                                      Ernie Banks
                                                      Jim Bunning
                                                      Rod Carew
                                                      Ty Cobb
                                                      Sam Crawford
                                                      Bobby Doerr
                                                      Rick Ferrell
                                                      Elmer Flick
                                                      Nellie Fox
                                                      Tony Gwynn
                                                      Gabby Hartnett
                                                      Harry Heilman
                                                      Billy Herman
                                                      Ferguson Jenkins
                                                      Addie Joss
                                                      George Kell
                                                      Harmon Killebrew
                                                      Ralph Kiner
                                                      Chuck Klein
                                                      Nap Lajoie
                                                      Freddie Lindstrom
                                                      Ted Lyons
                                                      Heinie Manush
                                                      Juan Marichal
                                                      Rube Marquard
                                                      Phil Niekro
                                                      Gaylord Perry
                                                      Eppa Rixey
                                                      Robin Roberts
                                                      Ryne Sandberg
                                                      George Sisler
                                                      Don Sutton
                                                      Arky Vaughan
                                                      Rube Waddell
                                                      Bobby Wallace
                                                      Paul Waner
                                                      Lloyd Waner
                                                      Zack Wheat
                                                      Billy Williams
                                                      Ted Williams
                                                      Hack Wilson
                                                      Early Wynn
                                                      Carl Yastrzemski
                                                      Robin Yount
                                                      no a player doesnt have to win any rings to be a hall of famer. all im saying is just casue buerhle wona ring he isnt hall material. many players play on bad teams but have great careers and deserve hall status. nice list though
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Doc JS
                                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                                        • 09-15-06
                                                        • 6885

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by pavyracer
                                                        Dark Horse,

                                                        I was just trying to point out that having 250 wins with a team of $400 million payroll and an ERA of 4.78 maybe as good as having 175 wins with a team of $50 million payroll and 3.87 ERA. Salary cap doesn't come into play when a pitcher is considered for the HOF. Only wins count which is wrong in my opinion. They should take the salary cap of the team a pitcher played, divide it per number of wins and whoever has the smaller ratio of wins per dollar spent should be considered.
                                                        Pavy,
                                                        Did you mean me (Doc) or Dark Horse??? LOL

                                                        Wins do count. I would argue that they aren't the sole determining factor in whether or not you get into the Hall. Cy Young Awards, All Star appearances, Gold Gloves, post season performance, ERA vs league avg. ERA for the time you played - all go into the equation of whether or not a pitcher is HOF material. Now, I agree that without the wins, the other stuff probably doesn't matter so much.

                                                        Doc
                                                        Comment
                                                        • james4512
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 10-27-08
                                                          • 3707

                                                          #29
                                                          really hard to say, at this moment i would say no, but you never know leftys can stay in the majors into their late 30's and even early 40s so that definatly plays in his favor.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • jsmithj88
                                                            SBR MVP
                                                            • 12-27-08
                                                            • 3591

                                                            #30
                                                            nope.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Bigmikesm
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 06-17-09
                                                              • 1616

                                                              #31
                                                              He's on the right track. Way too early in his career to know this answer though.
                                                              Comment
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