sweet.. They are good but not a powerhouse yet..
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Wow. I stopped posting in these types of threads because of a basic lack of facts.Originally posted by aneurysm00
So you're telling me Frank Lampard, John Terry and Theo Walcott couldn't get in any team in the world?
Every 'big' club has tried to sign those three players over the last year, Madrid and Barcelona were in for Lampard and Terry could choose whatever club he wanted. Walcott only signed an extension for Arsenal after interest from Madrid.
I'm not saying England are the best team in the world, they're not, but please, at least do some research.Comment -
I think any team would like England's defense, they are not only a great defense but also make defending set-pieces a nightmare for their opposition. England are dangerous on corners and set-pieces, if you look at teams like Spain or a few of the South American teams, corners and set-pieces are a big weakness in their game.
England will be in the world cup and have a legit chance of making a good run.Comment -
England's problems is the lack of killer instinct strikers. You can't win with Owen and Heskey at the World Cup. You need someone like Fabiano or Ibrahimovic. 3 chances 2 goals.Comment -
I agree. England always find a way to lose but I do think the manager could be the difference this time. If you look at the way they've been eliminated in the last three World Cups they really weren't that far away. 1998 they lost on penalties to Argentina, 2002 they lost 2-1 to eventual winners Brazil and in 2006 they lost on penalties to Portugal, so whilst they always seem to find a way of getting eliminated, Capello could be the difference this time.Originally posted by Karayilan9
For the record I don't think they'll win but I do think they have as good a chance as anyone.Comment -
Exactly right. You know you've got striking problems when Heskey and Crouch are both playing.Originally posted by pavyracerComment -
I also think this is down to the management, I would bring in sports psychologists to sort out this penalty shoot out problem because it has held England back for long enough. Penalty shoot outs are a test of nerve and 90% psychological as any player will score nearly all of their penalties in the training session under no pressure.Englishmike
I agree. England always find a way to lose but I do think the manager could be the difference this time. If you look at the way they've been eliminated in the last three World Cups they really weren't that far away. 1998 they lost on penalties to Argentina, 2002 they lost 2-1 to eventual winners Brazil and in 2006 they lost on penalties to Portugal, so whilst they always seem to find a way of getting eliminated, Capello could be the difference this time.
For the record I don't think they'll win but I do think they have as good a chance as anyone.
Capello is doing a great job, this is the strongest looking England side in years.Comment -
I agree. Capello has already said penalties will be practiced over and over and it was him that instructed the under 21's concentrate on penalties in training at the recent tourney.Originally posted by Karayilan9
I actually think England at 10-1 are a very fair price and I wouldn't put anyone off backing them at that price.Comment -
England would have a hard time beating Brazil. I think Brazil wins the Word Cup easily next year. Too much talent up front and the midfield is sizzling.Comment -
brazil look good right now thats for sure- but i hate england and even i think this england team has a very good chance to win it. dont forget brazil won the confed cup and no team winning that has won the world cup. Capello will be a big difference and his rotating players and englands easy qualification gives them a very good chance. plus england has the best central defensive duo in the world with terry and ferdinand.Originally posted by pavyracerComment -
You are overestimating England's abilities. Most of the top level players in Premiere league are foreigners. The lack of scoring and the goalie mediocracy give England very small chance to win a world cup on foreign soil. Nethrelands, Russia or Spain have more chances of winning it from Europe than mediocre and chronically underachieving England.Comment -
When England lost the Revolutionary War to us, they never again regained a status as a world contender in much of anything other than tea drinking. They are masters of the "tea sip" and could probably produce a top 5 tea drinker right now if they had to.Comment -
Originally posted by pavyracer
I see your points but Netherlands never. Russia only good cause of Hiddink and he always loses at semifinals at best. Spain won euro they wont win world cup. Pavy Capello is a great coach his presence alone will ensure England are playing the right tactics which Eriksson wasnt doing. Its a long way to go but England will be dangerous and we both know with the right group and path they could get a lucky draw. It happens to Brazil every time they always have the easiest group. I only give England a chance cause of Fabio nothing else. He is very smart and is planning this the right way.Comment -
Originally posted by WileOut
They could outdrink Americans any dayComment -
Very true, and whilst we were becoming tea drinking world champions the USA were leading the way in such world renowned sports as NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL.Originally posted by WileOut
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And doing such things as dominating every Summer Olympics since the beginning of time. Summer Olympics of course holding the most basic of athletic events, and the country who wins the most medals in the Summer Olympics is widely considered the most athletic country in the world.Originally posted by englishmikeVery true, and whilst we were becoming tea drinking world champions the USA were leading the way in such world renowned sports as NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL.
And Lakerboy, in my prime years of drinking (15-24) I would have been in the top 1% of drinkers in England. I'm sure of this. Alcoholism is 20 generations deep on both sides of my family and we bought Colt45 Malt Liquor every day by the case. Am I the only one here who knows that a case of malt liquor is 12 bottles? These bottles were famous because they were not the typical 40 ounce but actually 45 ounces. I drank 3 daily on weekdays, 4 on the weekend. Very fast and along with smoking weed and taking enough downers to kill a horse.
This was before my speed days. Anybody can drink a lot on speed.Comment -
lol And Marion Jones(amongst many others) contribution to those Olypiads was an extention of the athletic ability of Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Mark McGuire I take it?
makes you wonder why they all felt the need to cheat given they were so much better than everyone else.
Of course a countries population has nothing to do with medals gained .Comment -
mike if anyone in the US was cheating, most everyone else was cheating too.
The US has the best swimmer of all time, Phelps. Arguably he is the best athlete to ever walk the Earth in any category.
The US has about 95 of the top 100 sprinters of all time.
800 of the top 1000 track and field athletes ever (guess but probably accurate).
The US has produced all of the greatest basketball players of all time.
Same for baseball.
The US has produced the best athletes, lets face it.
Except for gymnasts and then Russia and other Eastern European countries probably top the US by a small margin.
And MLB is the premier baseball league in the world (baseball is played almost worldwide). The NBA is the premier basketball league in the world (basketball is played worldwide). And I think the NHL is the premier hockey league in the world (although I dont know or care anything about hockey).
And we cant help that we are a big country. All we can do is win the medals. If size mattered then why is India nowhere near the top, ever?Comment -
PS mike I know England is a small country. I'm just kidding you about the tea stuff man. England always has a great soccer team and that seems to be what most of the world cares about.
Cheers to England!Comment -
England's problem is their national style. In national teams that are good the players know exactly in what style they will be playing. That takes away a lot of questions, and gives them a foundation upon which to build. The German team plays one way, and has done so for forty years at least, Italians play their game, the Dutch always play their style, and so on. The only team that has made a adjustment recently is Spain.
The world's top teams have a clear identity. England has no identity. They've been looking for one ever since they decided to play more 'European'. And they needed to play European because their old style was outdated. The only problem is that they lack the technique to do so. The average English player is not high on technique. That's not the culture the players grew up in. Germans aren't high on technique either, but their style is extremely effective. England could play like Germany and be quite good, but they don't want to play like that. Every time I watch the English in a major tournament it's the same story. A team without identity, a team without soul. Good individual players, but not on the same page. (but the fans in the stands are fantastic).
With high on technique I don't mean so much the trickery of players like Ronaldo as the ability to play one-touch soccer. Good technique translates into fast and precise ball circulation. In that regard, I'm a little worried about the fields in South Africa, which didn't look like the smooth pitches necessary for high quality soccer during the Confederations Cup.Comment -
Maybe in your mind but not most people. As EM said, the primary reason why the country wins the most medals is down to the size of their population rather than any inherent skill level.Originally posted by WileOut
Here are a couple of links. be sure to scroll down towards the bottom to find the USA in these lists.
Originally posted by pags11Originally posted by BuddyBearOriginally posted by curiousComment -
Come, come now.Originally posted by WileOut
Swimming is an area where there are so many individual events that any good swimmer has a pretty good shot for a medal in most of them. An awesome swimmer has a pretty good shot at all the events they partake in, like Phelps.
Now look at sprinting which you bring up. You might have the fastest sprinter that ever lived or ever could live but what's the best he can do? 100m, 200m, 4x100m and the long jump. Does that make a swimmer with 8 gold medals twice as good as a sprinter with 4?Originally posted by pags11Originally posted by BuddyBearOriginally posted by curiousComment -
mike, once again your foot is firmly planted in your mouth
a TINY COUNTRY maybe one fourth the size of england consistently kicks your ass in the olymplics
AUSTRALIA
you might want to look at 1996, yes the uk team had a mighty result that year,
maybe you should do some research before opening your massive cock sucker
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Size of population has little to do with quality of soccer/team sports. Look at Argentina or the Netherlands.
It's mostly infrastructure, and quality of competition as players grow up. Infrastructure allows players to play against each other, a lot. And playing against each other a lot makes everybody better. Franz Beckenbauer said he finally understood why the Dutch are so good when he flew over Holland. Soccer fields everywhere.Comment -
If African countries can ever get their infrastructure together, the world cup would go there every time. They're the most gifted athletes (NBA), with good technical ability. Easy to forget that Pele was a player of African origin.Comment -
but then they go to europe and play on grass instead of dirt. africans have the advantage of not having to go to school like south americans so they have all day to playComment -
Just when you thought it was a good debate, in walks the forum troll.Originally posted by wtfmike, once again your foot is firmly planted in your mouth
a TINY COUNTRY maybe one fourth the size of england consistently kicks your ass in the olymplics
AUSTRALIA
you might want to look at 1996, yes the uk team had a mighty result that year,
maybe you should do some research before opening your massive cock sucker
http://www.mapsofworld.com/olympic-t...thens2004.html
I haven't got time to argue with trolls. I'm too busy using my 'shotgun style' (as you put it) to pick more golf winners.
How is your handicapping going, picked more losers lately?
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For the record troll, you forgot the Beijing 2008 table, but I realize that wouldn't have allowed you to call me an incorrect cokksucker.
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Going to try and get this thread back on topic, I get bored rather quickly of the whole flaming against England stance some people take.
The USA are, in my opinion, still 20 years shy of being a powerhouse in football. The problem I see with America is a large majority of their top players play abroard, whereas some see this as a good thing because they play against better players etc etc, I see it as a bad thing because there is no set "style of play" that the americans use.
I'll explain that better lol. Looking at Italy for example, from a VERY young age Italian football players are taught a brand of defensive football. They are taught to tackle, to stifle teams, to close down, to break away. EVERY team in Italys top flight plays that way so by the time young players make it to the squad they are fully prepared for that style of play so have no trouble adjusting. Spain on the other hand as another example, teach their players to basically attack, attack and attack and defending is something of a bonus. You see how the top Spanish sides play and it carries to the Spain national team.
No coincidence that the teams who have the most success in football are those with solid leagues of their own at club level. Brazil and Argentina are possibly 2 exceptions, but most of their players tend to end up in Spain with most other South Americans, similar style so it all works.
As for the world cup, I will be having my customary stake on England to win it as I always do. I believe we CAN win it, I believe we will have more fans in SAffers getting behind us as we do at every football tournie abroard, however I dont think we will win it. Spain are a danger and have one of the most under-rated coaches in the business, Holland are always fancied and looked decent at the euros, Italy and Germany are very often under-estimated for every tournament yet manage to always do well. Those are the 5 teams from the euro zone that are most likely to make an impression, alongside Brazil and Argentina as usual. South africa cannot be written off because of home advantage.
USA are a Last 16 team at best IMO, if you played consistently against the good Euro or South American teams you would get found out very quickly. If you had to qualify through the standard Euro or S.American qualifying you would not make it I dont think because you just aint good enough yet. 20 years time maybe, but building a good national team starts at the roots which in Americas case is the always-comical MLS.Comment -
the us are adding former german international jermaine jones to their roster ,
great addition imo ,
if they get lucky in the draws they might have a chance to survive the group stage.Comment -
I guess my brief statement didn't really bring about the point I was trying to make. Anyway, let me elaborate a little.Originally posted by englishmike
Gerrard and Rooney are two players who have no equal on the world stage. Now I don't mean that they're the two best players in the world. That title keeps changing and on current forum - it would have to be Leo Messi.
What I mean is that they play roles that no one else in world football can. They can play multiple positions on the pitch with relative ease. They are players you can build a team around. They both share the incredible determination and willpower that seems to stem from their similar Liverpudlian upbringing. They are players who are going to be definitive footballing examples of their generation. And luckily for England, Fabio Capello recognises this.
Watch any of the games where England start to struggle and it becomes obvious that the team relies on the Rooney-Gerrard combination to make something happen.
Now, Terry and Lampard are both fantastic players and have been fantastic servants to their country. However, I can think of a quite a few players around the world who are just as good and often better than those two.
IMHO, Carvalho is the best defender at Chelsea and Rio Ferdinand the best in England (who unlike Terry is a wonderful ball playing centrehalf -almost Beckenbauer if not for his lapses in concentration).
Lampard is proven at the highest level but hardly dynamic. Great at what he does but one dimensional. Even if you were a Chelsea fan, could you honestly see Lampard getting into Spain's midfield. Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas can all do what he does and in Iniesta's case - he can do it at another level.
Compare this with Rooney and Gerrard, name me one team in the world (club or international) who wouldn't make room for them. Most teams would probably build themselves around them.
As for Walcott, lets not make a mockery of this debate as we'll merely be commenting on potential (one night in Zagreb doesn't mean anything). Just for comparison sake, Rooney and Owen were making headlines at the highest level when they were both 18. The boy still has a long way to go.Comment -
If Greece can win the Euro then England has a chance to win the Word Cup. Theory from reality though can sometimes be miles away.
England is not in the first Top 5 teams in Europe at the moment so winning the World Cup is only a dream. English players lack the skills to win in all major sports. Football, basketball, tennis, cricket, rugby, you name the sport. For a country of 60 million people they are an embarrassment in producing champions. If you look at Liverpool or Man United who won the Champions League recently they are coached by non-English coaches, owned by Americans and 80% of the starting lineups are non-English players. This tell the story on why England fails to win any silverware in soccer for the last 43 years (they only won once in 1966 at home on a goal that never crossed the line..lol)Comment -
Originally posted by pavyracer
well said
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Originally posted by pavyracer
right on the mark in boldComment -
The USA has come a long way in footie, but they're not WC contenders just yet. They might be in 30 to 40 years though, especially if Latino immigration keeps increasingComment
