Mansion complaints, please comment SBR

Sam Odom · 12-13-06, 06:03 PM

Concerns about Neteller?

I have some but I'm in the minority in forum world with those concerns.

homedog · 12-13-06, 06:13 PM

Concerns about Mansion...... the part in quotes.

Bill Dozer · 12-13-06, 07:01 PM

I would draw my balance down. Mansion will never have solvency problems but inefficiency is costing players. When a book can't pay when they say they will, and doesn't fall all over itself to make it right, it's time to be conservative. They are close to a C+ at this point.

tacomax · 12-13-06, 07:30 PM

I've had a larger payment from Mansion (to Neteller) in the intervening period of these reports so I'd say it's most probably really due to banking issues rather than anything more sinister.

homedog · 12-13-06, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by tacomax

I've had a larger payment from Mansion (to Neteller) in the intervening period of these reports so I'd say it's most probably really due to banking issues rather than anything more sinister.

I suspect that there won't be any problems with Neteller transactions either taco, but I am not taking any chances here.

Bill Dozer · 12-13-06, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by tacomax

I've had a larger payment from Mansion (to Neteller) in the intervening period of these reports so I'd say it's most probably really due to banking issues rather than anything more sinister.

Right, we aren't talking about large sums in two of the three cases. Mansion lost some of its shine when it canceled one of two bets of one of our posters here and was losing wagers in general.

pags11 · 12-14-06, 04:07 AM

guys, you can make excuses for mansion or you can start to get your money out of there...please understand that I know my shit and mansion is going down the shitter...

Doug · 12-15-06, 01:35 PM

They don't announce things in advance, like changing fees to seller from buyer on April Fool's day, or the recent transaction limitations.

I have a suspicion they may shut down Jan 1. I have no inside info, but plan to empty out before then, and see what happens around that date.

Bill Dozer · 12-15-06, 01:46 PM

There is also the possibility that they reopen to US players and go back to fighting for a piece of the pie. Wirecard, the bank they switched to, is gaming-friendly at present.

Doug · 12-15-06, 02:01 PM

re-open what, the book part ? That is useless anyway.

Bill Dozer · 12-15-06, 02:06 PM

Right, and casino. Most important thing for people like you would be heavily seeding the "exchange" in-house.

pags11 · 12-15-06, 10:37 PM

doug,

I think that is a smart move...

Yoshi · 12-15-06, 11:34 PM

Mansion never was an exchange anyway, they made all the offers themselves. So it basically was a very low juice book, actually one where i cant see how they made ANY money.
Guess the owner didnt care, until a few months ago.
They are done.

Doug · 12-16-06, 01:58 AM

offers don't fill even when you offer the other side at 6 cents better than Pinny, too frequently.

SBR_John · 12-16-06, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Doug

offers don't fill even when you offer the other side at 6 cents better than Pinny, too frequently.

Thanks Doug.

Keep the comments coming guys.

Doug · 12-16-06, 02:51 PM

It's very disappointing, there was a small NHL card yesterday. Pinny has the best non-exchange NHL hockey prices anyway.

I want Pitts, offered NYI at least an hour before the game, made price 6 cents better on NYI than Pinny had, checked it 3-4 times to make sure I had the best price.

I figured somebody grabs it in the last few minutes. None of my offer filled. I wound up with nothing bet on the 7-4 easy winner.

It's too the point of just accepting offers now, they have no volume, look how small offers are.

Many times offers get taken $10, $20, even $3 at a time, if at all.

They are a failure, but had so much potential.

I think they quit soon !

bootsnixon · 12-16-06, 04:53 PM

I too make sure that my offers are a few points better than Pinny.
I found the liquidity in baseball to be excellent. Offers in the $500 to $1000 range would be taken (I do not track this, so it's just an estimate) about 90% of the time. Hockey at the start of this season was awful, maybe 20% but of late, I've noticed the offer amounts have risen and my offers are being taken about 50% of the time. NFL seems to be increasing as well as the season wears on and is becoming more viable. NBA and NCAA ball has very low liquidity but a friend of mine thinks it might be improving as well.
I hope they stay the course. IMO they have the best model of a sportsbook exchange for bettors I've seen. I think given time and enough exposure they could do very well skimming 0.5% off of offers won. Which I suppose equates to approx. 0.25% of all action.
As far as wd processing goes, I only use Neteller and have they have all come in a timely manner.

707782 · 12-16-06, 05:20 PM

Doesn't matter what you guys say or whether you graded mansion F, Mansion is one of my top books.

People are complaint about bullshits after they give so much out, free money, free deposit, free withdrawal and greatest bonuses.

It's not that because mansion is still great, it's because that they usually have the best juice for basketballs, and free dep and withdl is great.

All depesoit and withdrawal are on time, not one delay.

SBR_John · 12-17-06, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by 707782

Doesn't matter what you guys say or whether you graded mansion F, Mansion is one of my top books.

People are complaint about bullshits after they give so much out, free money, free deposit, free withdrawal and greatest bonuses.

It's not that because mansion is still great, it's because that they usually have the best juice for basketballs, and free dep and withdl is great.

All depesoit and withdrawal are on time, not one delay.

SBR has cut the rating on Mansion from a high of B+ to C+ and there is reason for concern. But we are not anywhere near F status. They are making changes no doubt about that. Doug and others have highlighted some of those.

pags11 · 12-17-06, 12:50 AM

707,

remember that it's not a bad thing for a book to make money...I just don't see how mansion was or is...

vanzack · 12-17-06, 07:26 PM

I wrote this on another forum back on October 17th, so just to add to this thread.

I havent used Mansion since this day. They never answered any of my questions.

Here is my opinion and my personal stance on Mansion.

Yesterday Mansion announced that they were closing their sportsbook and their casino - they said to US customers only - and were only keeping open the exchange and that they were not going to be seeding the exchange at all effective immediately. This was in a move to encourage true peer to peer wagering and mansion would be out of the booking business and just take commissions.

This scared me. The timing is such that it is a clear reaction to the US legislation - it is painfully obvious that Mansions stance is that by facilitating exchanges of wagers they are not booking and therefore not in any violation of being a payment processor for gambling. The reason this scares me is the simple fact that mansion cares about US law at all.

The only reason Mansion would or should care about the US law is if they had business interests, financial interests, or real estate in the USA or if they had investors or key employees who are American citizens. The fact that they are altering any policies tells me that there is more behind the scenes then they are willing to admit. This is the slippery slope that we have seen with WWTS and BOS and I dont want to be on a slippery slope.

They have also stated to me many in the past 2 days that they will not talk on the phone about customer service issues and finance issues with Americans. Why? Once again - it is an overreaction and a misunderstanding of the law - but the bottom line is that they shouldnt even care unless they have American interests. If mansion ran as smoothly as Pinnacle I wouldnt have a need to talk to CS on the phone - but since their website always has issues and I have had issues on other levels from time to time I will not accept not being able to talk on the phone with them.

If you look at their exchange currently you will see baseline offers all the way accross the board. They might be smaller than they were last week - but who in their right mind would say that there just happen to be 1,994 dollars on every college football side at -107 by accident? Please. Mansion is covering their ass. They know that they can continue to seed the exchange and they feel they are covered by publicly saying they arent - just in case.

The bottom line is that this is the strangest of industries. It is 100% trust. If you go to a car dealer and plop down a bunch of money you have legal recourse if something goes wrong - if a book wants to pack up and steal your money - as we have seen in the past - you have little or no recourse. There is not another industry like it on earth. I feel Mansion has failed at understanding this and being proactive about keeping us informed and giving us access to the people there that we need to talk to. I have not received a reply on my exploratory email I sent them asking several questions.

When I see a chink in the armour I have learned to be overcautious when it comes to sportsbooks. All of this adds up to a chink in the armour to me. Because of this, I have taken all of my money out of Mansion and will put them on "hold" status to see how this shakes out. I did get paid my money no questions asked - so dont worry about that for now. I cannot recommend them either at this point to anyone.

Its a shame because I did consider them my #1 out, but the only thing worse than losing a wager is winning a wager and not getting paid. That is a true gutshot. This may change over time, but for me Mansion is currently a "no play" - and I will continue to recommend and use Pinnacle and Matchbook.

vanzack · 12-17-06, 07:33 PM

This is the letter I sent to Mansion on October 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th (4 times) to the manager of Customer Service cc'd to 3 other people and I never got a response:

Dear Ms Maclean,

My name is XXXXX and my Mansion account nickname is XXXX. I encourage you to go to my account before reading this letter and review my level of play and the amount I keep in balance with Mansion.

In any business there has to be a certain level of trust. In this business, trust is even more important than any other as we have no enforceable contracts other than our promises to each other. It is in that light that I am extending a requirement to Mansion to reassure me of several things that could potentially cause me to sever our relationship.

I am extremely aware of US law and the most recent legislation that passed. I understand my rights as a US citizen and with the amounts that I wager, I have to know the law. I received news today that you are discontinuing your Sportsbook and Casino to US customers. I have several questions and concerns:

Overall, was this a business decision or a legal decision? There is nothing that you could be afraid of legally of US law if you are operating in a sovereign nation under local laws. If you tell me that you weren’t making money on your sportsbook or casino I would understand, but if your rationale was the recent US legislation – it has absolutely nothing to do with bookmaking. So I am confused and need to understand.

1. Does Mansion have financial or business interests in the USA or employ US citizens? This could be the only reason that you would be concerned about US law.

2. At this point I would like to have a better understanding of Mansions financial situation and be reassured that you are not going to close down overnight. I realize you might chuckle at this notion – but keep in mind you are privy to sitting there and having all of the information at your fingertips and I am thousands of miles away looking at a website. I need to know that if I have thousands of dollars with you that the only thing I need to worry about is winning my wagers.

3. Will the exchange be effected in any way? Are you still putting out large baseline offers (seeding the exchange) or is the volume now going to dribble down to nothing?

4. I was told by Rhys in Customer Service that you will not talk to Americans on the phone and he cited the Wire Act of 1961 as the reason. This is such a blatant misunderstanding of the Wire Act that it scares me that you would actually interpret it this way. Do you realize that I use VOIP telephony which means my telephone line is the same as my internet line that you will do live chat with me? It doesn’t make sense – can you clarify? If I call you from Canada can I talk to someone?

I am looking for a full reply to all of these concerns and not a form letter or canned answer. I don’t think it is too much to ask. Your responses will determine whether I continue to use you or take our business elsewhere, so please pass this on to whomever in management you feel appropriate – the most important thing is that I get accurate answers to these questions.

I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,

tacomax · 12-17-06, 08:05 PM

You could send a similar letter to every book out there and I don't think you'd get a single honest response in total, assuming that you get a response of any kind.

vanzack · 12-17-06, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by tacomax

You could send a similar letter to every book out there and I don't think you'd get a single honest response in total, assuming that you get a response of any kind.

Wrong.

Pinnacle, greek, matchbook, and WSEX all responded to me. With letters and phone calls. I have contacts in management at all of those that I can reach at any time.

I know you dont know me, and I dont know you, but I keep relatively large balances and give large action. This is the only thing I expect in return. I expect a certain amount of honesty and transparancy when it comes to business practices as I give them the same.

When you cant speak to anyone on the phone, cant get a response by email or mail, and there are obvious rash changes going on - why would anyone trust these guys with 6 figure balances?

I see this as a bad sign. Mansion should understand what most books understand, that this is a partnership built on trust and a 5 minute phone call or email makes all the difference.

Im not suggesting that Mansion is bad, crooked, going under, or that you shouldnt play there. I am suggesting that I WONT PLAY THERE because they dont meet my minimum standards for being in business with them.

tacomax · 12-17-06, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by vanzack

Wrong.

Pinnacle, greek, matchbook, and WSEX all responded to me. With letters and phone calls. I have contacts in management at all of those that I can reach at any time.

I understand what you're saying, but Pinnacle, Greek, Matchbook, and WSEX haven't signaled any intentions to pull out of the US market as far as I'm aware (and hey, I'm not American anyway) so the questions to those wouldn't be the same questions you asked Mansion.

I meant more that if you send a question like "is my money safe with you" then (assuming your money isn't safe) then you're never going to get an honest answer. If you wrote to, say, BetUS and asked them if you could deposit $10,000, get a $5000 bonus and get paid instantly once the rollover is complete - what would they say? And what (assuming what you hear about on the boards) would be the real answer?

Originally posted by vanzack

Im not suggesting that Mansion is bad, crooked, going under, or that you shouldnt play there. I am suggesting that I WONT PLAY THERE because they dont meet my minimum standards for being in business with them.

And that's perfectly understandable. I don't hold anywhere near as much there as I once did. Everyone has got their individual ways of calculating their risk assessment - and actually sitting down and calculating that risk assessment, whether by emailing the companies or just reading about the companies in general, is a very wise move.

vanzack · 12-17-06, 11:11 PM

Tacomax

I think we are saying the same thing.

Due dilligence is very important - which leads me to a natural lead in to compliment SBR. This site is invaluable. I mean that. I use it constantly and this forum compliments it well.

Where are you from Tacomax? I envy all non americans for their ability to use Betfair - I am a big soccer bettor and i salivate at being able to use them.

pags11 · 12-18-06, 02:57 AM

vanzack,

good to have you around here bud...

Doug · 12-19-06, 12:34 PM

They got some big players there. Who bets 95 cents ?

19 Dec 2006 12:19:31 1370552 Bet Vancouver Canucks v Minnesota Wild Money Line Vancouver Canucks +144 3.02 4.35 0.02 Bet
19 Dec 2006 12:09:13 1370539 Bet Carolina Hurricanes v Philadelphia Flyers Money Line Carolina Hurricanes -155 1.08 0.69 0.00 Bet
19 Dec 2006 11:59:33 1370511 Bet Carolina Hurricanes v Philadelphia Flyers Money Line Carolina Hurricanes -155 0.95 0.62 0.00 Bet

Doug · 12-19-06, 12:36 PM

some off my taken offers are so low that they don't even charge commission.

pags11 · 12-20-06, 05:34 AM

what's the over/ under of mansion shutting down for U.S. players?...2 months?...

Ortho · 12-25-06, 10:29 AM

FWIW I am currently being slowpayed by Mansion for a very small amount. I put in the withdrawal request and nothing happened for a few days, then live chat told me there was a problem with my neteller account, neteller told me there wasn't, live chat told this to finance department, finance department told me the money had been sent, i followed up a couple of days later to say it hadn't been, support told me the problem was with my neteller account, etc.

It seems to be disorganisation on their end rather than any malice, and the fact that it's such a small amount means I'm not really paying attention to it. The money is currently neither in my account nor in neteller.

I don't feel that i need sbr assistance just yet, but wanted to put the word out there for people who might have bigger balances.

InSpades · 12-25-06, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by Doug

They got some big players there. Who bets 95 cents ?

19 Dec 2006 12:19:31 1370552 Bet Vancouver Canucks v Minnesota Wild Money Line Vancouver Canucks +144 3.02 4.35 0.02 Bet
19 Dec 2006 12:09:13 1370539 Bet Carolina Hurricanes v Philadelphia Flyers Money Line Carolina Hurricanes -155 1.08 0.69 0.00 Bet
19 Dec 2006 11:59:33 1370511 Bet Carolina Hurricanes v Philadelphia Flyers Money Line Carolina Hurricanes -155 0.95 0.62 0.00 Bet

I have come to the conclusion there is some type of automated system accepting wagers for small amounts. Why? Maybe to make it appear there are more bettors using the exchange and encourage people to make offers. Other than that, I have no idea.

I have not given up on Mansion. It is widely known that the owner is a billionaire with other business interests. Stiffing bettors would ruin his reputation. I don't think there is enough money at Mansion for him to chance that.

IS

pags11 · 12-26-06, 03:28 AM

ortho,

thanks for sharing this info. with us...regardless of the reasoning, this never happened before with mansion...a warning sign for sure...stay safe bud...

taurus · 12-27-06, 12:21 PM

Thanks, Homedog, for starting this thread, which I finally caught up to last night. And many thanks Bill, Pags,Doug, Vanzack among others for the heads up and good advice. I had noticed that some of my offers at mansion were being gobbled up 10 dollars and even 5 dollars at a time.
I put in my withdrawal request last night and the money was there in Neteller this morning.

With their Friday nite 105 apparently gone, I've also unloaded betjamaica until next footballl season.
I can get by nicely with Pinnacle, betcris, and 5dimes, but someone talk me out of trying matchbook and bodog.
Between now and next fall, tennis and tennis parlays should be part of any book's offering in order to get me to sign up.
I noticed elsewhere that one of the respected posters brought up Cascade. Never heard of them , but that doesn't mean a damn thing.
Thanks again, everybody.