crypto currency discussion

[grease lightnin]

Now Vanguard’s Chief Economist is saying btc has a good chance of going to zero.

[shocka1212]

im glad I get the joke now

[mngambler]

Now Vanguard’s Chief Economist is saying btc has a good chance of going to zero.

Yawwwwn...cue the "old white guy from xyz bank/institution" claiming Bitcoin is a scam, pretty sure a rep from every major banking institution in the world over the last 3 years has now made this claim. LOL

[k13]

Now Vanguard’s Chief Economist is saying btc has a good chance of going to zero.

Yup and binance is hacked right now....

SELL SELL SELL

[TPowell]

Yup and binance is hacked right now....

SELL SELL SELL

Why tf would you post that? That isn't anywhere near true. Binance released all of their wallet addresses to disprove that penetrating idiot McAfee

[TPowell]

I hope BNB goes down like crazy tomorrow because I will UNLOAD on it. FUD is so rampant its ridiculous anymore.

[hotcross]

im glad I get the joke now

thread got straight ridiculous in a hurry

thought I was helping, maybe not

some need to consider the wisdom in just listening / reading / asking questions

[The Giant]

Hotcross, why in the world world you think that's about you?

I'm guessing Archie does his thing as a way of bookmarking where he's at in the thread.

[hotcross]

no no....
Chi_Archie has been laughing his azz off in this thread for awhile now

Some of us are just now getting the joke that caused his giggles

[hotcross]

some need to consider the wisdom in just listening / reading / asking questions

people that comment is directed to would have no clue its about them

[BeatTheJerk]

Maybe I’m being mocked, if so that’s alright. I’m not a regular here to offer rumors/news on why the coin may or may not fall/rise. That’s way too speculative, I’m just a good ole fashion chart junkie.

[mngambler]

Looks like Binance will be up in just over an hour, if anyone has any pending trades from when it crashed they are giving 30 minutes to clear/cancel/continue with those said trades apparently

[grease lightnin]

Guys I don’t know much about crypto or Blockchain, but I know quite a bit about traditional investments, finance, Econ, etc.

A couple questions I have for the experts:

So... in order for crypto to become widely accepted, it has to have some price stability at some point, right?

What do you believe will make that happen?

Also, I heard that btc’s intrinsic value is only 7-12% more than what it costs to make, which I heard is about $1,400 per btc.

Is that innaccurate? If so, why?

[ByeShea]

which state? I work out of NJ and NY.

NY ... what do you? Please don't tell me you're a lawyer.

[hotcross]

good questions. Now we're getting somewhere, back on track.

The question about cost "to make a bitcoin" well, I'm not a miner of any coins....in this thread we used to have at least one guy who claimed to be a miner...he might be able to clue us in first hand about cost, but haven't seen him here in awhile. Perhaps that information could be found thru research but even still it might not be accurate info specifically about Bitcoin. It has been at the point for awhile already that is takes a huge amount of computing power to accomplish the mining, and will just get more difficult over time - that's what helps make bitcoin scarce. So costs = you have equipment, electricity, a building to house the electronics....what else? How often are new blocks created would factor into calculating the cost per coin. Don't know if the $1,400 is accurate but would guess it is not less as of current date. Hopefully others can chime in.

As for price stability, that could be a raging debate. For me, yes. I always just wanted a stable value to the currency to be able to electronically transfer it privately, outside of the traditional banking realm. Those factors have all eroded at this point. Massive amounts of people seeing bitcoin as an investment has changed things. There's a lot more perspectives to add than what I'm saying. But even if my own intention is to use it fluidly as currency, if the "price" aka "market value" what people declare willing to pay for a bitcoin goes up, then I am more likely to hoard the coins vs. spend them. These are my quick responses without getting too lengthy. Let's hear from others.

[grease lightnin]

NY ... what do you? Please don't tell me you're a lawyer.

I bet he is a mortgage broker or realtor. Lol

[shadymcgrady]

The most recent surge has driven the computing parts necessary to mine crypto through the roof

[The Kraken]

I’ve read that btc has no intrinsic value with likely devaluation to zero dollars over time. I’ve also read that 1 btc has an intrinsic value of $514,000, based on its use as a medium of exchange and store of value.

I’m not pro btc as a store of value because as you pointed out it’s simply too volatile right now to be considered as such for most reasonable people.

Price stability can only come when there are trillions in liquidity and the market can not be manipulated by a few players like our current system. I personally don’t think we’ll ever see btc as a real alternate to currency which would imply that I believe the true intrinsic value of btc is closer to zero than $1400

[GunShard]

I’ve read that btc has no intrinsic value with likely devaluation to zero dollars over time. I’ve also read that 1 btc has an intrinsic value of $514,000, based on its use as a medium of exchange and store of value.

I’m not pro btc as a store of value because as you pointed out it’s simply too volatile right now to be considered as such for most reasonable people.

Price stability can only come when there are trillions in liquidity and the market can not be manipulated by a few players like our current system. I personally don’t think we’ll ever see btc as a real alternate to currency which would imply that I believe the true intrinsic value of btc is closer to zero than $1400

I don't believe BTC will ever reach zero. The fact that BTC investors die over time. The money invested from the dead, stays there forever. Just like with any other stocks and investments.

[raiders72001]

Guys I don’t know much about crypto or Blockchain, but I know quite a bit about traditional investments, finance, Econ, etc.

A couple questions I have for the experts:

So... in order for crypto to become widely accepted, it has to have some price stability at some point, right?

What do you believe will make that happen?

Also, I heard that btc’s intrinsic value is only 7-12% more than what it costs to make, which I heard is about $1,400 per btc.

Is that innaccurate? If so, why?

For it to become a widely used peer-to-peer electronic cash there would have to be price stability. The only way to get this would be for drastically lower fees and increased speed. This can be easily done. Right now it's a store of value and nice for swing traders.

[shocka1212]

Hotcross, why in the world world you think that's about you?

I'm guessing Archie does his thing as a way of bookmarking where he's at in the thread.

he thinks everything is about him apparently.. I made a comment about the clowns on msnbc and Fox News becoming crypto gods overnight and the guy was chastising me as if I took food off his first borns plate when all I've tried to do is lend some insight that turned into a couple extra dollars to everyones pockets. Im sure ill get flamed for this... Chi Archie, your move brother....

[shocka1212]

NY ... what do you? Please don't tell me you're a lawyer.

almost was.. luckily I sat in a room full of enough of them to steer clear although I did have a scholarship to a pretty good school on the table.

[horja1]

Looks like Binance will be up in just over an hour, if anyone has any pending trades from when it crashed they are giving 30 minutes to clear/cancel/continue with those said trades apparently

Still a few hours to wait ... Hopefully only a few

[The Kraken]

I don't believe BTC will ever reach zero. The fact that BTC investors die over time. The money invested from the dead, stays there forever. Just like with any other stocks and investments.

You may not believe it and you might be correct. But theoretically btc can hit zero. Just because people are holding doesn’t mean it can’t hit zero.

I love reading the tweets that say “btc will never hit zero because I’m never selling”



Sorry, don’t work that way

[Arky]

Check out the chart for new player Bluzelle, #116 at Coinmarketcap.

Just getting started and their main seller (Binance) goes down for 30+ hours..... The Bluzelle guys can't be happy with that....

[shocka1212]

You may not believe it and you might be correct. But theoretically btc can hit zero. Just because people are holding doesn’t mean it can’t hit zero.

I love reading the tweets that say “btc will never hit zero because I’m never selling”



Sorry, don’t work that way

Actually, from a theoretical standpoint, stock market plunging can mean good things for btc and other crypto as a space if you think about it. People pulling out of the Stone Age investment that can be easily manipulated by banks and government(like there's a difference between those two reach around buddies) and then looking for something that isn't influenced and viola, in comes the decentralized currency that can be chopped 2728262 different ways and moved across the world within hours rather than walking into a bank and having to beg a middle aged personal banker(who is only there to open credit card accounts) to wire your funds.

[The Kraken]

I was simply addressing the notion that btc cannot go to zero because there will always be people holding and that’s just not true.

However, I do believe bitcoins intrinsic value is quite low right now mainly because it has little utility and very little public support.

2018 is gonna be rough with more than a few hurdles. But the biggest hurdle is the negative public perception. Avg Joe sees the volatile, the crashes, reads the articles from his ol trusted source Goldman Sachs that says most coins will go to zero over time, he sees articles written about exchanges losing 100,000,000’s of dollars. Plus it’s confusing as Fukk and once you figure it out you’re limited right now to basically trading it.

Look what happened recently, we got a huge surge of public money, the good kind that we want in crypto and after the market cap almost reached $1Trillion, it tanked into a 60% correction. A lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth right now and won’t be putting money back in for a while

I don’t think crypto is ready for mainstream yet and I don’t think mainstream is ready for crypto yet.

[horja1]

Still a few hours to wait ... Hopefully only a few

Trading restarted on Binance

[Bsims]

I was simply addressing the notion that btc cannot go to zero because there will always be people holding and that’s just not true.

However, I do believe bitcoins intrinsic value is quite low right now mainly because it has little utility and very little public support.

2018 is gonna be rough with more than a few hurdles. But the biggest hurdle is the negative public perception. Avg Joe sees the volatile, the crashes, reads the articles from his ol trusted source Goldman Sachs that says most coins will go to zero over time, he sees articles written about exchanges losing 100,000,000’s of dollars. Plus it’s confusing as Fukk and once you figure it out you’re limited right now to basically trading it.

Look what happened recently, we got a huge surge of public money, the good kind that we want in crypto and after the market cap almost reached $1Trillion, it tanked into a 60% correction. A lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth right now and won’t be putting money back in for a while

I don’t think crypto is ready for mainstream yet and I don’t think mainstream is ready for crypto yet.

Several good points, thanks.

[Chi_archie]

sooo many crypto coin flakes

[grease lightnin]

I’ve read that btc has no intrinsic value with likely devaluation to zero dollars over time. I’ve also read that 1 btc has an intrinsic value of $514,000, based on its use as a medium of exchange and store of value.

I’m not pro btc as a store of value because as you pointed out it’s simply too volatile right now to be considered as such for most reasonable people.

Price stability can only come when there are trillions in liquidity and the market can not be manipulated by a few players like our current system. I personally don’t think we’ll ever see btc as a real alternate to currency which would imply that I believe the true intrinsic value of btc is closer to zero than $1400

Exactly.

It seems to me, that in order for there to be that kind of liquidity, it will have to receive the blessing of the establishment.

I don’t see how the establishment will allow that to happen unless they have control of it. What’s to stop them from making their own digital currency that they control?

For years they have been trying to find ways to make all transactions electronic and to take away the anonymity of cash. I think it is great that btc sprouted up as a way to make anonymous transactions digitally, but I could see the establishment opting to control and profit from a medium for anonymous financial transactions, rather than trying to kill it and stay on the current path of attempting to make everything transparent.

Even though btc is volatile as hell right now, it is being used, and it does require capital to mine, so I don’t think the real value is $0. The $1,400 number was what I overheard a knowledgeable person throw out, I think he was referring to the cheapest place to make it.

I found this article https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...-in-the-u.aspx that linked this studyhttps://imgur.com/a/ngs7m on what it costs in various countries to mine 1 bitcoin.

I have let the crypto craze pass me by until I cashed out from my book recently and lost 20% overnight. I am fascinated now and will likely just hold on to see what happens. Lol

Last thing I will say is... I have been at a clear vantage point to recently see a lot of lower income folks put a ton of money into bitcoin. It began when btc hit $12k, poor people came through the woodwork, and I heard many conversations where they were sending money to coin base. Earlier when I said I saw the shoe shine boy indicator on bitcoin, that’s what I meant. When I saw poor people dumping money into bitcoin, I just knew it was in trouble.

[HurryUpAndDrink]

Kraken is spot on like usually he is

[Chi_archie]

Even though btc is volatile as hell right now, it is being used, and it does require capital to mine, so I don’t think the real value is $0. The $1,400 number was what I overheard a knowledgeable person throw out, I think he was referring to the cheapest place to make it.

I asked this question a few months back about Usage. Where are people using it besides gambling, dark web stuff and people operating on the fringes? What are the benefits for people using bitcoin mainstream? Why use bitcoin to buy something at overstock.com instead of credit card?

my question was back in December was more about Crypto's and their intrinsic value. Because most of those will absolutely hit zero at some point right? and is anyone making actual transactions for marketplace goods with Cardano or Neo?

or is all the money spent on them basically speculation that this particular coin will come out head and shoulders above the rest and make it to the mainstream as an accepted stable currency?

[secretstash]

I asked this question a few months back about Usage. Where are people using it besides gambling, dark web stuff and people operating on the fringes? What are the benefits for people using bitcoin mainstream? Why use bitcoin to buy something at overstock.com instead of credit card?

my question was back in December was more about Crypto's and their intrinsic value. Because most of those will absolutely hit zero at some point right? and is anyone making actual transactions for marketplace goods with Cardano or Neo?

or is all the money spent on them basically speculation that this particular coin will come out head and shoulders above the rest and make it to the mainstream as an accepted stable currency?

There are plenty of people around the world that want anonymity in payment choices that are also not using the payment or plan to for nefarious reasons.

Furthermore, the darkweb moved on from bitcoin a long while back and bitcoin at the time didn't tank because of it. Monero and litecoin for some are the choice among others that could take over.


-stash

[shadymcgrady]

The first fully licensed and insured cryptocoin broker will be an autonomous car that quit working for google to trek out on its own