When RUSSELL WILSON wins the SUPERBOWL this year he will be on Manning/Brady level.

[LT Profits]

Statistically, Wilson's QB rating career is just about 103. This is second best among active QB. Peyton is 3rd and Brady is 4th. I would say that (sans any ring/appearances), Wilson's play is already "on their level".

Wilson is nowhere near the level of Brady and Peyton, QBR is an artificial number here because Seattle throws the ball less than just about any other team in the league. If Wilson had close to the pass attempts the other two have, his rating would almost certainly take a dip.

[JerseyRobby]

this is Tom Brady 2001 - 2004

Brady never won without a good defense, Big Ben never won without a good defense, Eli never won without a good defense... Maybe there is something to this whole defense wins championships stuff.

[dumdum214]

Wait until Wilson gets a big contract then lets see how good he is when his team around him won't be nearly as good.

[manny24]

Seneca Wallace 2.0

[bobby heenan]

i guess people forget that brady threw for 350 and 3 tds in a superbowl winning effort....i guess thats just managing a game and resting on the laurels of your "great defense" ...i guess putting your team in fg range with like a little over a minute left, with the game tied, twice doesnt mean much with so many great players around you to aid you....god it gets sickening to listen to people try to demean tom bradys accomplishments

[oddtodd]

on brady's level??

not a chance.....he needs 5 superbowl appearances with a mediocre team to be in the discussion.

Obviously this thread was ludicrous. But it clearly was meant to be as well just a guy trolling about his favorite player. You can't judge a 2nd year players career against 10 yr + QBs. But it also clearly did its job and exposed a true moron. 5 mediocre teams? If brady were to make the Superbowl this year it would be the first mediocre team he ever brought to a superbowl. Every other time hes made it hes had probably the best, most well rounded, best coached teams in the league. Quite possibly the dumbest post of 2013 congratulations.

[oddtodd]

Also. LT you're the man. But Russ not top 10? Are you telling me guys like Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, Dalton, Kaep, Tannehil? are better? I can't even comprehend what kind of list you're cooking up over there.

[Youkeepthislove]

Wilson has only made 30+ pass attempts in 4 games this year. If he was throwing 40+ times like a lot of those guys, he'd have plenty of 300 yard games. That's just not Seattles offense. Yes, this team only 'needs' a game manager, like an Alex Smith, to win a lot of games, but RW has proved time and time again he can carry his team to a win in the 4th quarter. I mean, he did beat Brady last year on a late 4th quarter come back, right? Besides passing yards, his stats are well above average. RW is statistically number 1 in the nfl in passes of 20+ yards. Look it up.

[Slimpickens]

Also. LT you're the man. But Russ not top 10? Are you telling me guys like Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, Dalton, Kaep, Tannehil? are better? I can't even comprehend what kind of list you're cooking up over there.

Russel Wilson is a better qb that Stafford? Please. Not sure Russel is better than any of the qb's you listed. Put him on an average NFL team then what?

[darkhat]

Obviously this thread was ludicrous. But it clearly was meant to be as well just a guy trolling about his favorite player. You can't judge a 2nd year players career against 10 yr + QBs. But it also clearly did its job and exposed a true moron. 5 mediocre teams? If brady were to make the Superbowl this year it would be the first mediocre team he ever brought to a superbowl. Every other time hes made it hes had probably the best, most well rounded, best coached teams in the league. Quite possibly the dumbest post of 2013 congratulations.

listen here kid....brady absolutely has carried teams that were average to the superbowl. I know in your mind guys like deion branch are elite receivers, but they aren't

The one thing I'll give you is they are coached great, however the teams were absolutely dragged to the superbowl by brady.

[DOM-Ganador]

Big Pats/Boston guy. But the debate shouldn`t be between any of the old guys (PM,TB,BR) who are all HOF.

The real ? is who do you start a franchise with now?

For me its LUCK , then I do like Wilson a lot. with Cam a distant 3rd.Forget RGIII.

[frostno98]

What are you five years old? Since when did just winnings the Superbowl makes you an elite QB. Russell will be lucky to mention in the same breath as Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and Warren Moon if he even last that long.

[Noleafclover]

Didn't read.
No.

[lakerboy]

listen here kid....brady absolutely has carried teams that were average to the superbowl. I know in your mind guys like deion branch are elite receivers, but they aren't

The one thing I'll give you is they are coached great, however the teams were absolutely dragged to the superbowl by brady.

Drew Bledsoe won the afc title game in pittsburgh the first superbowl win. He would have won the superbowl as well if he played in that game.

[ThaTopMoron]

Brady never won without a good defense, Big Ben never won without a good defense, Eli never won without a good defense... Maybe there is something to this whole defense wins championships stuff.

exactly. so how was Peyton Manning supposed to win last year when his defense couldn't close out a game where the opposing team was down to chucking up hail mary's

people are so blind

[ThaTopMoron]

listen here kid....brady absolutely has carried teams that were average to the superbowl. I know in your mind guys like deion branch are elite receivers, but they aren't

The one thing I'll give you is they are coached great, however the teams were absolutely dragged to the superbowl by brady.

this might be the dumbest post on SBR

[ThaTopMoron]

i guess people forget that brady threw for 350 and 3 tds in a superbowl winning effort....i guess thats just managing a game and resting on the laurels of your "great defense" ...i guess putting your team in fg range with like a little over a minute left, with the game tied, twice doesnt mean much with so many great players around you to aid you....god it gets sickening to listen to people try to demean tom bradys accomplishments

good job you pointed out 1 of those 9 games.... 1 of 9. and you pointed out 2 drives... and the drive vs the Rams was easy, he just dumped off passes left and right and also got away with intentional grounding. the Rams buried themselves. Good thing Brady got those yards though... got him to 145 total yards in the game and he had 1:30 for the drive... an eternity in the NFL. Patriots built their 17-3 lead in that game off of 3 STL turnovers... not off of Brady's play.

and the Panthers game... yeah we already said that is his 1 great game out of 9 in the SB years. too bad he drove down the field for his kicker again after the Panthers kicker gave them the ball @ the 40 yard line .
That was Brady's best game... so he was expected to go get 30 yards and setup a kick. 30 yards, impressive.

We've seen how it ends when Brady has to go get a TD though to win the game... its 10x tougher, not just for him, but for any QB in the NFL in that pressure situation in the playoffs with everything on the line.

Listen, Brady is great but he wasn't always at that level... don't cloud everything from just his 2007 season on. He didn't drag shit to Super Bowl wins.

[bez]

good job you pointed out 1 of those 9 games.... 1 of 9. and you pointed out 2 drives... and the drive vs the Rams was easy, he just dumped off passes left and right and also got away with intentional grounding. the Rams buried themselves. Good thing Brady got those yards though... got him to 145 total yards in the game and he had 1:30 for the drive... an eternity in the NFL. Patriots built their 17-3 lead in that game off of 3 STL turnovers... not off of Brady's play.

and the Panthers game... yeah we already said that is his 1 great game out of 9 in the SB years. too bad he drove down the field for his kicker again after the Panthers kicker gave them the ball @ the 40 yard line .
That was Brady's best game... so he was expected to go get 30 yards and setup a kick. 30 yards, impressive.

We've seen how it ends when Brady has to go get a TD though to win the game... its 10x tougher, not just for him, but for any QB in the NFL in that pressure situation in the playoffs with everything on the line.

Listen, Brady is great but he wasn't always at that level... don't cloud everything from just his 2007 season on. He didn't drag shit to Super Bowl wins.

I totally agree here, Brady didn't carry his team early in his career this is hilarious. Drew Bledsoe would have won the superbowl no doubt, their defense was great as well as coaching. Let's not forget the cheesiest play of all time though, the tuck rule in the raiders game which led them to a super bowl. To this day, the worst call i've ever seen. Oh and how about spy gate, i could go on about how the refs always give brady calls as well. Sure he is carrying his team now but back in the day, not a chance.

[KKoz9]

This is his second year, hard to have 5 SB appearances in 2 years. Give him time. Brady did not have a mediocre team most of his career. Compare Brady's first 2 years to Wilsons and Wilson wins on every count. Give him time and he will win more SB than Brady.

He's this generation's Jeff Garcia brah, deal with it

[bobby heenan]

good job you pointed out 1 of those 9 games.... 1 of 9. and you pointed out 2 drives... and the drive vs the Rams was easy, he just dumped off passes left and right and also got away with intentional grounding. the Rams buried themselves. Good thing Brady got those yards though... got him to 145 total yards in the game and he had 1:30 for the drive... an eternity in the NFL. Patriots built their 17-3 lead in that game off of 3 STL turnovers... not off of Brady's play.

and the Panthers game... yeah we already said that is his 1 great game out of 9 in the SB years. too bad he drove down the field for his kicker again after the Panthers kicker gave them the ball @ the 40 yard line .
That was Brady's best game... so he was expected to go get 30 yards and setup a kick. 30 yards, impressive.

We've seen how it ends when Brady has to go get a TD though to win the game... its 10x tougher, not just for him, but for any QB in the NFL in that pressure situation in the playoffs with everything on the line.

Listen, Brady is great but he wasn't always at that level... don't cloud everything from just his 2007 season on. He didn't drag shit to Super Bowl wins.

i certainly dont think that brady stepped onto the field and was "great" from the get go..i really dont....its still...people try to demean everything his teams have accomplished


121 with no timeout at his own 17....two dumpoffs under pressure and with nothing else open(he was looking downfield)...spikes the ball with 41 seconds left at his own 30...hits redmond under pressure for 10 more yards(he was looking downfield...it was what was open and he had to get rid of the ball)....if u want to complain about a potential grounding call...i could give you that...wasnt called...i dunno....still hit troy brown downfield after showing a nice ability to move around and step up in the pocket......im fully aware of how they built their lead in that one

listen...i certainly dont cloud things from 07 on.....i understand bradys role that whole year was to be a manager....and thats what he did...and thats why bledsoe never got his job back.....im a lifelong pats fan/season ticket holder....the move was coming soon without a bledsoe injury.....belichick hated bledsoes penchant for trying to make a big play and throwing the ball downfield with low percentage passes.....that was bledsoe......the pats werent winning anything with him......

even in bradys best superbowl game....it wasnt really in the plan for brady to throw the ball 48 times.....in the second half the pats lost two starting dbs to injury and delhomme was able to exploit that....bradys great defense gave up 3 fourth quarter tds.....when carolina took a lead...brady took them down the field on an 11 play 68 yard drive to take the lead......

even when kasay gave them the ball at the 40 in a tie game....brady came out firing...hit troy brown for 13....next play hits brown for 20...has it negated on a penalty....goes back to brown for 13 again....hits graham for 4...then branch for 17.....to set up a comfortable fg

even in 07 against the giants....keep in mind brady was not 100 percent...he was walking around in a boot leading up to that game...combined with the fact that the giants pass rush was a monster that day.......he still drove them down the field to take a lead....the defense then drops two ints(samuel and merriweather)....gives up a miracle play(where you could have called holding on two different giants o-lineman if we want to talk missed calls).....i actually thought our defense played one of their better games id seen them play in awhile that day...but they let us down when it counted.....

even in '12....we could debate whether or not welker should have caught that pass....doesnt matter....the defense was in great postion to put that game away.....and they failed miserably.......and in both games when he had the ball last he was in a no win situation.....

i dont disagree that he wasnt always "great"....he wasnt the "franchise" from day one....like the mannings and others.....it was a gradual process....but to say even in the time he wasnt that he didnt show flashes of greatness and brilliance.....is just demeaning him

[bobby heenan]

its just utterly assinine to listen to several people bring up drew bledsoe and to suggest that things would have been the same with that guy under center.....bledsoe was 18-28 for 159 yards and 2 ints before "the hit" against the jets....with a long of 58 yards....the guy loved taking shots down the field and low percentage throws....not to mention he had two cinder blocks for feet and couldnt avoid a pass rush to save his life....one of the remarkable differences between he and brady was bradys footwork and ability to move and create a new pocket....and a feel for a pass rush

[DAVEYCROCKET]

well said bobbyheenan

[bobby heenan]

Drew Bledsoe won the afc title game in pittsburgh the first superbowl win. He would have won the superbowl as well if he played in that game.

correction....2 special teams tds and kordell stewart throwing 3 ints won that game for the patriots....i wish i could find video of this play(and its possible i have the yard line, game scenario wrong)....its damn near impossible at the moment....at one point nursing the lead in the 4th quarter...at like i think it was his own 37....bledsoe is under pressure and about to be sacked....he literally flails a ball pretty much over his head, behind his back, without even looking in order to avoid a sack....this ball could have easily been picked if someone were in the right place at the right time.....im trying desperately to find this on video...but no luck

listen i love bledsoe...the guy helped save football in new england......and he was supportive of tom and was a trooper.....

[lakerboy]

correction....2 special teams tds and kordell stewart throwing 3 ints won that game for the patriots....i wish i could find video of this play(and its possible i have the yard line, game scenario wrong)....its damn near impossible at the moment....at one point nursing the lead in the 4th quarter...at like i think it was his own 37....bledsoe is under pressure and about to be sacked....he literally flails a ball pretty much over his head, behind his back, without even looking in order to avoid a sack....this ball could have easily been picked if someone were in the right place at the right time.....im trying desperately to find this on video...but no luck

listen i love bledsoe...the guy helped save football in new england......and he was supportive of tom and was a trooper.....

then brady and the boys marched into pitt a few years later and the steelers were throwing more picks.

[easyliving]

Wilson should be getting compared to Tannehill not Brady and Manning

[byronbb]

Obviously this thread was ludicrous. But it clearly was meant to be as well just a guy trolling about his favorite player. You can't judge a 2nd year players career against 10 yr + QBs. But it also clearly did its job and exposed a true moron. 5 mediocre teams? If brady were to make the Superbowl this year it would be the first mediocre team he ever brought to a superbowl. Every other time hes made it hes had probably the best, most well rounded, best coached teams in the league. Quite possibly the dumbest post of 2013 congratulations.

You forgot to mention the cakewalk division the Pats get to feast on.

[packerd_00]

No actually they are proving my point. I said they would win back in September and they said Wilson sucked. Now I said "The Seahawaks are going to win the superbowl this year. Period. No suspense. Done deal" and not a single person has even questioned that. Their " no way seahawks will win SB " tune has changed 100% in 3 months. And in another year they will all be on the Wilson bandwagon.

Done deal,you must have a crystal ball.

[Jampiece]

So far he has had 1 good season and 1 great season. I admit I'm a SF homer all day, but never ran around saying Kaep is the best this or that. Hell I bought a Gore jersey and everyone I know is rocking the 7. We are talking about 2 seasons with these guys. Might as well say Manziel is the next great.

Longevity is what matters and Wilson hasn't shown that (yet). I'm not saying it's impossible, but ridiculous to say at this point. Like saying mars used to have water so we can all relocate there when we penetrate up the earth. Not impossible, but a lot has to be done first to say its the truth.

The whole team and great coaching is what's winning these games. Sea is definitely a force, but Wilson wouldn't do as well put on just any team. Remember Jeff Garcia? Excellent QB his first two starting years. I was just like you back then. We lost Young to that Goldberg style spear and didn't know what was going to happen. Bam! In steps garcia and here comes our next legendary QB. He's gonna break all the career records.... oh shit 2003.

[Stevedore]

Big Pats/Boston guy. But the debate shouldn`t be between any of the old guys (PM,TB,BR) who are all HOF.

The real ? is who do you start a franchise with now?

For me its LUCK , then I do like Wilson a lot. with Cam a distant 3rd.Forget RGIII.

Aaron Rodgers is to old for your liking?

[edawg]

Seahawks win with Defense, running game, and ST. Wilson is in the upper half of starting QBs nothing more.

[lakerboy]

Wilson should be getting compared to Tannehill not Brady and Manning

pretty sad how guys dont get the fact that wilson is a bright young man with an incredible desire to win

[Slimpickens]

pretty sad how guys dont get the fact that wilson is a bright young man with an incredible desire to win

No one is denying that. Still doesnt make him an upper tier QB yet.

[sandyw123]

No. Manning is not on Brady's level and I'm not even a Pats fan......winning regular season games is overrated

it takes a real player to carry a mediocre team through the playoffs to a superbowl win.

wait for wilson to win one superbowl and be in trent dilfer's league...

I disagree. NO quarterback has ever taken a mediocre team to a championship. Mediocre teams just don't win it all. A quarterback is helped by the strength of the team around him: offensive line, special teams, and most importantly (defense). Not to take anything away from Brady, but you can't take the team out of the equation.

[BarkingToad]

pretty sad how guys dont get the fact that wilson is a bright young man with an incredible desire to win

Exactly, to me he's a hybrid of Doug Flutie and Kurt Warner. He's been missing his top 2 receivers essentially all year.

[The Madcap]

No. Manning is not on Brady's level and I'm not even a Pats fan......winning regular season games is overrated

it takes a real player to carry a mediocre team through the playoffs to a superbowl win.

wait for wilson to win one superbowl and be in trent dilfer's league...

While this argument about Russell Wilson being in Brady's class is totally absurd, when did Tom Brady ever lead a mediocre team to a Superbowl win? Every Superbowl he's won was thanks to an elite level defensive saving the day play after play.


Against the Eagles the Pats only won by a FG, and that was thanks to the Pats D forcing three turnovers and D.McNabb losing his lunch in the huddle in the final three minutes and choking the game away. Brady didn't win that game as much as the Eagles lost it. Against the Panthers Brady played well, but the biggest plays of the game were the Pats D sack-stripping Delhomme inside his own 20 yard line and recovering a fumble to set up an easy TD and then the Panthers kicker shanking it out of bounds with a minute to go in the game. Neither of those things happen and Brady loses. And don't even get me started on the Rams game. You wanna talk about Trent Dilfer, Brady had less to do with the Pats winning that Superbowl than Dilfer did when the Ravens crushed the Giants.



The only difference between Brady's three superbowl wins and his two superbowl losses is that his defense got the lucky bounces in the wins and unlucky bounces in the losses. Had nothing to do with Tom Brady.